tons of power

[Lonnie96]

No problem guys

[L.I. Rich]

The swing pics below are of, first, Lee Comeux, then, of course Ben, pupil/protege Rock & another student, Karl. And no, aside from Dave stating as much, those shaft positions were not created by a right-hand slap, LMAO.

 

 

What did create those positions in your opinion?

[L.I. Rich]

I can only speak for myself and my experience in trying on this swing.  I only recorded one swing of mine, DTL unfortunately, with this swing, so I have no freeze frames of shaft position to demonstrate whether I can create similar shaft positions with a right hand slap.  What i can say is that the contact was very good, ball flight a slight draw.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what those golfers were doing when those shots were taken, but I would also say that I believe that those positions can be created with an active right arm/hand. 

[L.I. Rich]

I agree completely that all the ingredients are required. Lee absolutely rotates, albeit less so than others. There is a video of him uncorking a drive in which his left shoulder gets under the chin & the shaft is like Sadlowski's at the top.

[L.I. Rich]

Thank you Richard, you too.

[Lonnie96]

Good stuff rich.. And yes timing is involved. I have had good and bad says so far.. But the bad days were never as bad when I tried to hold angles or make lag. The biggie is finding your own personal low point. And than basically the ball just gets in the way

[RoverRick]

I will not argue some things.  Lee Comeaux, as I stated before, knocks the crap out of the golf ball but is not exactly the best at explaining anything.  If you watch his video on iron construction you begin to wonder if perhaps some people are planning on taking him away for his own safety.  There were a couple of more where he was driving down the road and I am not sure what he was talking about.   However, I have not only read everything about this I could find in the last week, but watched all his videos, and other's videos and tried this swing for myself.  I took some video today, just as it began to rain, and sadly, I was not centered in the camera so I did not get everything in the frame.  Cut my own head off.  But I was able to determine some things from this video.

 

Of course, whole body has to work together to generate the proper swing.  Of course there are some elements of both in every swing, or at least elements that are common to both.  Of course everything has to be in the proper sequence or it is a wasted effort.  Lee plainly says, as plainly as he ever gets, that he turns the right shoulder to get it back out of the way, and he starts the swing with a thrust of the right shoulder.  He states that the power is generated by unfolding the right arm and feeling like you slap the sole of the club under the ball with the right hand.  Of course since all ten fingers are wrapped around the club from the beginning of the swing to the end of the swing, the hands actually to nothing, it is the unfolding of the right arm and uncocking of the wrist cause "The Feeling of slapping the sole of the club into the ground underneath the ball with the right hand."

 

As far of the attached images of Lee where someone has written something under them, in my opinion, based on my limited time (one week) with this swing, I would say the writing is complete rubbish.  I find the very idea of thinking that you can tell in those pictures, and determine if he is pushing with his right hand or pulling with is left hand ludicrous. 

 

Please note that whomever has said this, says that the shaft bend is not caused by focal plane distortion, yet, in the very next image states that is caused by focal plain distortion.  Did they move the focal plane?  Is this a different camera?  Or is he presenting pure poppycock to support his argument?

 

 

What is written down is absolutely not what he says he is doing, nor is it what I feel I am doing during the swing, and nor what the video I have taken show me what I am doing.  They are basing their opinion on how the shaft is bent in that particular frame, and then go on to claim in the last picture that the forward bent shaft could be from focal plane distortion.  I say that all of the shaft bends are caused by the torque being applied to the end of the shaft.  There is no way to determine by looking at a still photo of if he is pushing or pulling the shaft.  They have added their writing to support their arguments but are really just making it up.

 

If you look closely at the last picture, the ball is gone, but the left hand and right hand are still oriented to where if there was a straight shaft in them, the butt would still be leading the head of the club or at least in line with. 

 

After a week of this and finally working out the details, I would say, this swing with the irons is a 3/4 shoulder turn and a forward swing at 3/4 speed, the body turn by itself does not generate enough speed to cause much if any shaft bend.  As the right arm reaches full extension just before impact, (Note that the club head does not pass the butt until after impact.) the uncocking of the wrist adds a significant amount to the swing speed.  Having done this myself, I know, with out having to read it, that the right arm does in fact add to the swing speed when you do this this correctly.

[Lonnie96]

Lee (speed and his hands always stay front )

[Blade]

Actually the shaft bend when the shaft is horizontal will be real. When the shaft is close to vertical the camera will distort it into that bend. The camera stores the pixels line by line from the top down. There is a time difference between when it stores the pixels near the grip and the ones near the club head, enough time for the club to have traveled several inches creating that effect. When the shaft is halfway down, near horizontal, the entire shaft is captured at nearly the same instant showing its true bend at that moment. That's why he said there wasn't likely focal plane distortion in that pic but most likely was there in the other one.

[RoverRick]

Actually the shaft bend when the shaft is horizontal will be real. When the shaft is close to vertical the camera will distort it into that bend. The camera stores the pixels line by line from the top down. There is a time difference between when it stores the pixels near the grip and the ones near the club head, enough time for the club to have traveled several inches creating that effect. When the shaft is halfway down, near horizontal, the entire shaft is captured at nearly the same instant showing its true bend at that moment. That's why he said there wasn't likely focal plane distortion in that pic but most likely was there in the other one.

Ok. Was the forward bend because he pushed with the right hand or pulled with the left.

[Blade]

I ain't sayin'. Haha! I just know what causes the shaft distortion.

 

It seems odd to me that there was forward shaft bend halfway down like that though.

[RoverRick]

The shaft seemingly being bent half way down is for the same reason that it is seemingly being bent at impact.  Focal plane distortion.  The camera still scans one line of pixels at a time.

 

Here is an article by Tutleman same guy who reviewed this swing. 

 

This Distortion Exaggerates Shaft Bend

If you apply the same technology to a releasing golf shaft, the result is a distortion-induced shaft bend. The diagram at the right shows how it happens. Here are the words to go with the picture:

• We have a camera whose focal-plane shutter takes 20msec to go from the top of the shaft to the bottom.²
• We have a perfectly straight shaft near its top speed. It is turning about 2º per millisecond, or 40º over the duration of the shutter movement. Once again, the shaft is not bent at any point in this scenario.
• The horizontal dotted lines are the position of the shutter opening at 0 milliseconds, 5msec, 10msec, 15msec, and 20msec. The shaft position at each of these times is given by the corresponding-color solid line.
• I have put a circle at the intersection of the corresponding-color lines. The circle is the position of the shaft seen by the film at the moment the slit focuses on it. If you connect these circles by a smooth curve, you will see all the fractional images of the shaft that the film sees.
• I have "connected the dots" in exactly that way. The fat gray curve is the image of the shaft captured on film.

The point is that the image on the film shows a very curved shaft, but we know that the shaft was perfectly straight throughout this exercise. The apparent shaft bend is completely an artifact of the way the focal plane shutter exposes the film.

[L.I. Rich]

So, this is analogous to the rolling wagon wheel illusion on film or tv in which the wheel appears to roll backwards while the wagon is going forward, due to the spoke rotations per second not being in sync with the fps of the camera.  Essentially, when the camera begins to capture the image, the shaft is straight, but the camera captures the image from top to bottom, and by the time the camera is capturing the bottom of the image, the clubhead has advanced well ahead of it's original position.

[RoverRick]

Yes, but I do not see how it makes any difference.  it looks to me like his left arm is not really doing anything but his right arm is pushing.  Even if the club is flexed forward, the muscles in his left arm do not appear do be doing much but his right arm had extended.  When you look at his whole swing and not still photos of it, you see that he clearly did not generate enough body turn speed to "pull the clubhead around".

[L.I. Rich]

No, he doesn't turn much.  He does the double pivot, especially with the driver. 

[RoverRick]

No, he doesn't turn much.  He does the double pivot, especially with the driver. 

 

Double pivot?

 

Edit.  I do not know what that means exactly, but he takes much more turn with the driver than the irons.  I do also, which is what threw me off last weekend.

[L.I. Rich]

It's the Shauger/Austin hip pivot if I'm not mistaken. Forgive me if I don't phrase it right, or am mis-attributing, but basically, he straightens the right leg during the backswing, then shifts the hips left and rotates on the downswing.  Here at around 13:10... http://youtu.be/ROCEDZ6jMWw, and this, 

 where he's clearly trying to achieve escape velocity.

 

So, IMO, and like Richard, I believe that the whole chain is responsible for generating the power in the swing,.  For me Richard, I find that "keying" on the right arm push from the top really helps me with my timing as I am able to hit the ball much straighter than when my left arm "pulls".  I don't know the reason, and I really don't care - I like the results.  Maybe it's because I'm spastic when I try to do things left handed.  Who knows? As I've said, I can only speak for myself, and am not trying to evangelize, just sharing, venting, etc.

[Blade]

The shaft seemingly being bent half way down is for the same reason that it is seemingly being bent at impact. Focal plane distortion. The camera still scans one line of pixels at a time.

 

Here is an article by Tutleman same guy who reviewed this swing.

This Distortion Exaggerates Shaft Bend

If you apply the same technology to a releasing golf shaft, the result is a distortion-induced shaft bend. The diagram at the right shows how it happens. Here are the words to go with the picture:

 

• We have a camera whose focal-plane shutter takes 20msec to go from the top of the shaft to the bottom.²
• We have a perfectly straight shaft near its top speed. It is turning about 2º per millisecond, or 40º over the duration of the shutter movement. Once again, the shaft is not bent at any point in this scenario.
• The horizontal dotted lines are the position of the shutter opening at 0 milliseconds, 5msec, 10msec, 15msec, and 20msec. The shaft position at each of these times is given by the corresponding-color solid line.
• I have put a circle at the intersection of the corresponding-color lines. The circle is the position of the shaft seen by the film at the moment the slit focuses on it. If you connect these circles by a smooth curve, you will see all the fractional images of the shaft that the film sees.
• I have "connected the dots" in exactly that way. The fat gray curve is the image of the shaft captured on film.

The point is that the image on the film shows a very curved shaft, but we know that the shaft was perfectly straight throughout this exercise. The apparent shaft bend is completely an artifact of the way the focal plane shutter exposes the film.

Yes, but when the shaft is horizontal, it's captured within a few lines of pixels because it is parallel to them instead of the shaft covering nearly half of the lines of pixels when it is vertical/perpendicular to them. You can eliminate the distortion at impact by turning the camera 90°×for the same reason. I've seen it done.

[RoverRick]

Ahhh, ok, was not familiar with the term.  And of course it is the complete swing aides in the power.  Otherwise, he would stand there flat footed and swing just the right arm.

[RoverRick]

Yes, but when the shaft is horizontal, it's captured within a few lines of pixels because it is parallel to them instead of the shaft covering nearly half of the lines of pixels when it is vertical/perpendicular to them. You can eliminate the distortion at impact by turning the camera 90°×for the same reason. I've seen it done.

 

Not exactly.  Turn the camera 180 not just 90.  By that I mean, first determine the place where you want the least distortion, typically at impact and which direction your camera actually scans.  Let us say for the sake of argument, that it scans left to right top to bottom of an iPhone.  The least amount of distortion would be in the top of the screen.  So if you turn the top of the phone down then now the shaft will be shown with the least amount of distortion at impact. 

 

You can only eliminate (reduce) the distortion in one direction.

[Lonnie96]

Took this out in the morning

[Blade]

Not exactly. Turn the camera 180 not just 90. By that I mean, first determine the place where you want the least distortion, typically at impact and which direction your camera actually scans. Let us say for the sake of argument, that it scans left to right top to bottom of an iPhone. The least amount of distortion would be in the top of the screen. So if you turn the top of the phone down then now the shaft will be shown with the least amount of distortion at impact.

 

You can only eliminate (reduce) the distortion in one direction.

It reads each line left to right yes. But not left to right, top to bottom at the same time. It's line by line like reading a page. So 90° puts the shaft at impact within a few lines elimating almost any distortion. I've seen examples done with the same camera both ways. It works. But yes, just for the position you want to capture.

[JBones]

Holy Sh!t, forget Mike Austin, he's tryin to copy Bones

 

BTW, Great round today!!

 

This is your year Bro!

 

And as an aside, with a backswing like this, well, you can do whatever the hell you want, lol

 

Talk to em Bones

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

Thanks. I've actually used some of this guys stuff and have had some success, today it all came together. My swing is nothing comparable to this guys, but I've put some of his "theories" in place.

[Lonnie96]

go for it

[RoverRick]

Weird thing. . I spent all winter and what we had of spring .. Slamming the club down taking divots . But today, I had no divot to little and caught it clean as a whistle . I felt the push slap at the bottom , and I felt the load behind my back . My neck felt like it tilts slightly right during transition .. Keeping shoulders and upper body back as I push slapped ..just weird no divots .

 

This new exotics xcg6 goes super super bullet low straight . Super accurate club , but 10 yards shorter than Diablo octane 10 degree . Low bullet accurate

 

Thanks rich

 

Ball was blurry .. Slammed down with no divot .. Picked them clean

 

The radius created by the left arm keeps it from digging in.  I am having just a touch of difficulty in that I am raising up and catching it just a bit thin, but working on it.

[Lonnie96]

ok

[L.I. Rich]

I'm seeing something similar to you Rick. Hitting just a groove low. Center or slightly heel on club, but below the sweet spot. I still have to use a "traditional" driver swing, but I'm hitting fairways pretty well.

 

So far, I've seen great improvement in striking. Misses are low on the club, but definitely centered. I need to get some sessions on video to create checkpoints of comparison.

[Lonnie96]

http://youtu.be/U5CNJt8YKhY

 

Just watch and learn .. "Listen" to your shots and "watch" your shots .. Easy game folks

[ezpincher]

http://youtu.be/U5CNJt8YKhY

Just watch and learn .. "Listen" to your shots and "watch" your shots .. Easy game folks

What do you shoot if you don't mind me asking. I like your action but score is the key.

[Lonnie96]

Good read