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Hmm!

 

That's very interesting. Rookie is this a common occurrence for shaft makers? Or is a True Temper one of few that is doing this? I feel like in the industry they are in having a system like that would be super important.

 

This leads me to another question. Does anyone have some guesses or maybe even some rough information on how manufacturers pick shafts to put into their drivers for retail?

 

For instance, my Covert 2.0 Tour has the 60g Kuro Kage Silver TiNi in it. What makes Nike decide to put something like that in their driver? Trying to spec to a certain kind of player? Cost? Performance? What would be the reasoning?

 

And I'm just using nike as an example.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Usually OEMs stock shaft is the best shaft that they think will perform for a wide range of golfers. The guys who usually buy off the shelf more than getting fitted.

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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I don't know what other manufacturers do as far as prototype testing outside of sending them out on tour.

 

As far as how they select stock shafts, if I'm a betting and guessing man they're going with whatever a manufacturer can provide them that's mid launch and mid spin at the cheapest price and then putting the graphics on them to match up similar to an aftermarket version.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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So that falls back on the idea of standard length/loft/lies fitting some large percentage of golfer and so on, correct?

 

Does anyone else ever feel as though they're on the edge of a slippery slope, and ready to slide down? Haha. This shaft/club properties discussion feels so mind boggling.

 

It intrigues me beyond belief, based on the type of guy I am, but I can tell it's something that once you jump into it it would be hard to ever be satisfied. Haha.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Rookie,

 

That last part about the graphics... Can you elaborate on that please? Using the Kuro Kage for example. You're saying the graphics on that shaft will look like the aftermarket option, but in reality they may be two completely different shafts?

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Are you referring to a graphic free shaft test? That would be awesome. It would let us see what kind of value labels have on the mental side of golf.

 

My honest uneducated opinion? People will hit the ball worse because without a flashy advertisement they will feel as though it just can't be as good as something that's glamorous looking.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Rookie,

 

That last part about the graphics... Can you elaborate on that please? Using the Kuro Kage for example. You're saying the graphics on that shaft will look like the aftermarket option, but in reality they may be two completely different shafts?

The original Covert had a made for KuroKage, it was red instead of silver and was a different shaft. Some companies are using made does and some don't. TaylorMade uses a made for variation in non-TP clubs as a stock shaft and the TP versions are authentic versions of the aftermarket shafts with TMag graphics (though now they're using less and less TM graphics versions). Titleist is king of using made fors, but their shafts also say "exclusively for Titleist". The made for shafts lots use are watered down versions of ther aftermarket counterparts. For example if you see a Matrix shaft with a letter flex designation, it's a made for. Matrix doesn't use letter designations. They have a few with frequencies on them (the Xcons did) but most have a CPM sticker on the butt. Could be that a cheaper material was used, could be a heavier or lighter weight and different shaft totally. There's so many variables out there it's hard to say what changes for them on a general statement. Adams used to use matrix shafts and they're watered down versions that don't have the hexadecagonal weave pattern and are simpler versions. Tour edge used a watered down version of the AD DI that used cheaper materials. They usually, except TMag, make them look similar to what people see on TV.

 

The authentic ones, however, that are out there in equipment OEM graphics play identical to the aftermarket counterpart. It's a slippery slope for manufacturers of shafts to go down because the watered down versions can create a negative connotation in some cases. The authentic ones OEM's offer though are able to be done at a cheaper price than you can buy aftermarket because the equipment manufacturer is buying so many. There are lots that are different and lots that are the same as the aftermarket version or are the aftermarket version. The new Covert 2 has an authentic TiNi Kuro Kage in them.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I wonder if MGS could do shaft testing like that. It would mean so much more with no preconceived ideas going in.

Could they? Sure, if the manufacturers would cooperate. I'm doubtful a lot of manufacturers would participate. If I were a betting man, I'd say you'd have 3 major players that would in True Temper, Fujikura, and Matrix. Graphite designs might also jump in. There's not a lot in it for manufacturers if the name recognition isn't there.

 

That said, I'd love to see it to see how different shafts/manufacturers would fare. But, the aftermarket shaft game is a small segment of golf. The vast majority buy stock shafts and never deviate from that. The equipment junkies would love it, the masses would just be confused.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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That's interesting. And I see where it could be extremely misleading for someone in my shoes. Someone who, before this conversation, would go into a store, want to get fit for a driver and hit the different offerings and form opinions. Just like anybody would.

 

The problem from the sounds of things is that those opinions will largely be invalid. Say I walk into a store today as your average consumer and hit a made for shaft in a Titleist driver. Let's say I really like it, and I go home and order the aftermarket shaft to throw in my 913. Now I have a different animal!

 

I can't believe that companies think that makes sense? I understand wanting to maximize profits and to streamline assembly in any ways you can, after all this is a business they're in.

 

Are there any companies who seem to do pretty well with offering the real deal shafts in their clubs? I'm just generally curious because up until now I had no clue! Haha.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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I might be missing something here...

 

But isn't there something that MGS could do to maybe hide the graphics instead of messing with getting a stripped down shaft? That would seem to be the easiest way to go about it.

 

I'm sure there is something they could do to have the covering not effect swing weight too much. Am I correct?

 

These are all assumptions, but they seem plausible!

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I might be missing something here...

 

But isn't there something that MGS could do to maybe hide the graphics instead of messing with getting a stripped down shaft? That would seem to be the easiest way to go about it.

 

I'm sure there is something they could do to have the covering not effect swing weight too much. Am I correct?

 

These are all assumptions, but they seem plausible!

Shaft skins would be easy I suppose.  They're removable too.  Just get a bunch of black ones.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Share on other sites

That's interesting. And I see where it could be extremely misleading for someone in my shoes. Someone who, before this conversation, would go into a store, want to get fit for a driver and hit the different offerings and form opinions. Just like anybody would.

 

The problem from the sounds of things is that those opinions will largely be invalid. Say I walk into a store today as your average consumer and hit a made for shaft in a Titleist driver. Let's say I really like it, and I go home and order the aftermarket shaft to throw in my 913. Now I have a different animal!

 

I can't believe that companies think that makes sense? I understand wanting to maximize profits and to streamline assembly in any ways you can, after all this is a business they're in.

 

Are there any companies who seem to do pretty well with offering the real deal shafts in their clubs? I'm just generally curious because up until now I had no clue! Haha.

All of the TaylorMade TP shafts are real deals.  Several other companies have real deal shafts as well, you just have to scrutinize them more and more.  Check it versus the aftermarket counterpart, most will have something different, whether color, weight, or say "made for" or "exclusively for" or some verbage like that.  

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I'll definitely have to keep an eye out for that kind of stuff. I'm extremely interested now! Haha.

 

Rookie what are your thoughts on the new Speeder series of shafts? Are you familiar with them at all? I haven't had a chance to hit one, but I wanted to when I was being fit for my driver. They didn't have one anywhere for me to try.

 

I really like the Kuro Kage so far! I'm just so new to this shaft side of things I'm trying to get an idea of something comparable and something really different! Haha.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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I'll definitely have to keep an eye out for that kind of stuff. I'm extremely interested now! Haha.

 

Rookie what are your thoughts on the new Speeder series of shafts? Are you familiar with them at all? I haven't had a chance to hit one, but I wanted to when I was being fit for my driver. They didn't have one anywhere for me to try.

 

I really like the Kuro Kage so far! I'm just so new to this shaft side of things I'm trying to get an idea of something comparable and something really different! Haha.

The only one I've hit so far is the Speeder 7.3 Tour Spec and I liked it, played a lot like the 757 I used to love.  A little higher launching than the original and felt a little smoother.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Share on other sites

Man living in the sticks sure has it's downsides. The only time I have access to trying any new clubs or possibly shafts is to make a two hour preplanned drive! Kinda sucks. Haha.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Share on other sites

Kuro Kage Silver TiNi 60G S. It's the stock shaft in the covert 2.0 Tour.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Share on other sites

Kuro Kage Silver TiNi 60G S. It's the stock shaft in the covert 2.0 Tour.

I have a Silver in my hybrid and love it. It's not the TiNi though. The Silver is a stiff tip, softer butt and mid-section for a lower launch and spin. The Black is the opposite, stiffer butt section and softer tip for more launch and spin.

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Is the softer butt and mid section why I would classify the feel of the shaft as "whippy"? It feels like it flexes or kicks about 3/4 of the way down the shaft? I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's the sensation I get!

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

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