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Is the USGA Runing the game?


GolfSpy_X

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I think the changes in grooves is going to be a big fault of theirs. Obviously, amateurs still have time before the rule affects them, but when it does come into effect for amateurs it will be interesting to see how it affects the game.

 

Think of it this way...how many people do you know that can get the ball to stick on the green or get the ball to spin back. I only know of a few people I play that can and they don't do it every time. When amateurs are affected by this change we will see some interesting shots. I also think it will increase the time it takes to play a round of golf.

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I think the changes in grooves is going to be a big fault of theirs. Obviously, amateurs still have time before the rule affects them, but when it does come into effect for amateurs it will be interesting to see how it affects the game.

 

Think of it this way...how many people do you know that can get the ball to stick on the green or get the ball to spin back. I only know of a few people I play that can and they don't do it every time. When amateurs are affected by this change we will see some interesting shots. I also think it will increase the time it takes to play a round of golf.

 

 

If the shot is not hit thin, or more appropriately, *bladed*, everyone who hits the ballon the face creates spin. How well someone does it obvioulsy has certain factors and variables attached, but with a sand wedge hit high from the fairway, the ball will spin back on the green with a softer ball made to spin. It's a harder ball that most high hadicappers use for durability and distance that does not allow the player to spin the ball.

 

This is all said with the premise any golfer actually practices to try and spin the ball with a learned technique.

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Playing devils advocate here....if you were the head of the USGA how would you govern it when it came to new technoligies?

 

Where do you draw the line?

 

I don't think they are ruining the game, but they do need to accept the fact that technology is going to move forward (and thats not always a bad thing) and they need to not jump to rulings without proper research.

#TruthDigest
 

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The USGA rules majorly impact many parts of the game. Do you think they are starting to ruin the game?

 

 

That depends on your definition of ruining the game. If you mean making the game less fun and creating rules that inhibit the growth of the game than yes I think the USGA is ruining the game they swear to protect. Im sure they have their reasons but in my opinion they are stuck in the past and unwilling to move forward as the game evolves. The time has come for 2 sets of rules, one for professionals and elite amateurs and another for weekend recreational players.

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I am one that agrees with you on this.

 

That depends on your definition of ruining the game. If you mean making the game less fun and creating rules that inhibit the growth of the game than yes I think the USGA is ruining the game they swear to protect. Im sure they have their reasons but in my opinion they are stuck in the past and unwilling to move forward as the game evolves. The time has come for 2 sets of rules, one for professionals and elite amateurs and another for weekend recreational players.

#TruthDigest
 

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The USGA rules majorly impact many parts of the game. Do you think they are starting to ruin the game?

 

Here is an example of one rule, in amatuer play, that I would say is broken about 99.9% of the time by every golfer -

27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

 

Who in their right mind is going to walk/drive back up to the tee box and re-load.

Now I can hear it - should have hit a provisional. Well they didn't - now what ?

 

Take two club lengths from where you and group thought it went out, take your penalty and move on. Thats what the majority of us do, yeah I know we have some purists but...

 

Thats really a rule that should be re-thought but it opens the door to that dreaded "B" word...bifuraction. :o

 

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That depends on your definition of ruining the game. If you mean making the game less fun and creating rules that inhibit the growth of the game than yes I think the USGA is ruining the game they swear to protect. Im sure they have their reasons but in my opinion they are stuck in the past and unwilling to move forward as the game evolves. The time has come for 2 sets of rules, one for professionals and elite amateurs and another for weekend recreational players.

 

I'm also a big fan of the idea of having 2 sets of rules. The game the pros play has little relation to the game that recreational players play, in terms of skill & talent, so rules intended to reign them in should not be applied to people who are just out having a good time with friends.

 

That said, I will add another question/thought: my dad maintains that if they had two sets of rules, and all the ball manufacturers (just as an example) made 2 balls, "Tour Ball" and "Weekend Ball," "Tour Ball" would outsell "Weekend Ball" by a vast margin. What say you, MGS nation? Would you play by the weekend rules or would you want to play with the same equipment the tour players use?

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I'm also a big fan of the idea of having 2 sets of rules. The game the pros play has little relation to the game that recreational players play, in terms of skill & talent, so rules intended to reign them in should not be applied to people who are just out having a good time with friends.

 

That said, I will add another question/thought: my dad maintains that if they had two sets of rules, and all the ball manufacturers (just as an example) made 2 balls, "Tour Ball" and "Weekend Ball," "Tour Ball" would outsell "Weekend Ball" by a vast margin. What say you, MGS nation? Would you play by the weekend rules or would you want to play with the same equipment the tour players use?

 

 

to the detriment of most players the tour ball would outsell the weekend ball, unless the weekend ball was advertised to be longer than the tour ball, distance outsells everything

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Yes because they have failed to attack what is hurting the game and then going after things that have a smaller impact on the game, but will cost the average golfer more money to fix.

 

Grooves are not an issue. The PGA Tour is not having an issue with these new grooves. But if you're an amateur you may have to possibly get new irons to abide by the rules if you are playing certain tournaments.

 

The ball and the drivers have greatly impacted the game. It's made good courses obsolete and has given the long ball hitter who is wild off the tee a bigger advantage over the short, but straight hitter. Yet, they ignore it and continue to do so. They need to say 'you can't go any further than you are going now' and stick with it and not be afraid to make the newest ball or driver non-conforming.

 

 

 

 

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Yes because they have failed to attack what is hurting the game and then going after things that have a smaller impact on the game, but will cost the average golfer more money to fix.

 

Grooves are not an issue. The PGA Tour is not having an issue with these new grooves. But if you're an amateur you may have to possibly get new irons to abide by the rules if you are playing certain tournaments.

 

The ball and the drivers have greatly impacted the game. It's made good courses obsolete and has given the long ball hitter who is wild off the tee a bigger advantage over the short, but straight hitter. Yet, they ignore it and continue to do so. They need to say 'you can't go any further than you are going now' and stick with it and not be afraid to make the newest ball or driver non-conforming.

 

 

 

 

3JACK

 

Is there someone who needs a certain number that the winner posts for a round to be successful? Would the game stop if someone was -40 for the weekend? It seems like the rules come down to scoring. In addition to equipment, there must be course design rules. How can the courses be adapted to the game? Lower par for a hole? 500 yard par 4. 280 par 3 (Par threes over 200 can kiss my butt, btw).

 

If USGA and the owners of the venues want the numbers down, increase the difficulty of the course. Look at Augusta Nat. New tee boxes, new trees, putting surface that is like green glass. Reminds me of Phil at Torrey when he spun like 17 wedge shots off the front of the green on one hole. Casual golfers and good amateur players would not complain a bit. If I played Bethpage Black at carded a 140 I would feel totally satisfied. Hard course is hard. Install new fairway bunkers, Scotland style, at 315 from the tee.

 

As a biology professor, this reminds me of natural selection. The predator has adapted to be a more effective predator, causing a severe selective pressure on the prey. Either the prey species adapts, or goes extinct. Status quo is not an option in nature. If the classic courses can't adapt to the pro golfer predator, they go extinct from tour. groove smoove.

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Is there someone who needs a certain number that the winner posts for a round to be successful? Would the game stop if someone was -40 for the weekend? It seems like the rules come down to scoring. In addition to equipment, there must be course design rules. How can the courses be adapted to the game? Lower par for a hole? 500 yard par 4. 280 par 3 (Par threes over 200 can kiss my butt, btw).

 

If USGA and the owners of the venues want the numbers down, increase the difficulty of the course. Look at Augusta Nat. New tee boxes, new trees, putting surface that is like green glass. Reminds me of Phil at Torrey when he spun like 17 wedge shots off the front of the green on one hole. Casual golfers and good amateur players would not complain a bit. If I played Bethpage Black at carded a 140 I would feel totally satisfied. Hard course is hard. Install new fairway bunkers, Scotland style, at 315 from the tee.

 

As a biology professor, this reminds me of natural selection. The predator has adapted to be a more effective predator, causing a severe selective pressure on the prey. Either the prey species adapts, or goes extinct. Status quo is not an option in nature. If the classic courses can't adapt to the pro golfer predator, they go extinct from tour. groove smoove.

 

 

Adaptively, there is another option... the species that fails to adapt can relocate, or in the case of golf, the private courses can be forced to become public, and new predators are introduced...

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Adaptively, there is another option... the species that fails to adapt can relocate, or in the case of golf, the private courses can be forced to become public, and new predators are introduced...

I think that 51 weekends a year they are there. It is likely strong marketing mojo though if a course can say that Phil won there at -3 for the weekend. Extra $5K for the reputation.

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I don't mind the new rules. It's just another challenge. I'm just sort of apathetic on the whole subject, I really wouldn't care either way.

Someone feels very passionate about it though. That is the person that I want to identify. Course owners? USGA? Manufactures? Who has decided that the style of play is wrong and why is it wrong?

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Someone feels very passionate about it though. That is the person that I want to identify. Course owners? USGA? Manufactures? Who has decided that the style of play is wrong and why is it wrong?

 

 

EXACTLY, what was wrong with the game the way it was? The USGA might say that they wanted to put an emphasis back on driving accuracy, guys are bombing it 320 and hitting wedges out of the rough effectively not caring that much about driving accuracy. I dont really support this argument, but its the one they make. It's my opinion that the USGA isnt evolving with the game, they continue to want to hold the game to the standards of an outdated era, and whats worse to me is that they are proud of it, if they are the last guys standing on the hill at the end of it all they will be happy that they held up their rules, the game will be dead, but they would be happy.

 

The USGA decided that the current style of play is wrong, but rather than really address the problem, and there are some very simple ways to do it, they have decided on the course of confusing the average player and not really addressing the problem.

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EXACTLY, what was wrong with the game the way it was? The USGA might say that they wanted to put an emphasis back on driving accuracy, guys are bombing it 320 and hitting wedges out of the rough effectively not caring that much about driving accuracy. I dont really support this argument, but its the one they make. It's my opinion that the USGA isnt evolving with the game, they continue to want to hold the game to the standards of an outdated era, and whats worse to me is that they are proud of it, if they are the last guys standing on the hill at the end of it all they will be happy that they held up their rules, the game will be dead, but they would be happy.

 

The USGA decided that the current style of play is wrong, but rather than really address the problem, and there are some very simple ways to do it, they have decided on the course of confusing the average player and not really addressing the problem.

Well stated. What would you do to fix it? I am reading do nothing and let them play from your posting.

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Well stated. What would you do to fix it? I am reading do nothing and let them play from your posting.

 

Option 1

2 sets of rules, 1 for professionals and elite amateur tournaments. 1 for everyone else.

 

Option 2

2 types of golf balls, 1 for professionals and elite amateur tournaments, 1 for everyone else.

 

Option 3

scale back the golf ball and scale back the driver head to levels of 1998-2000 performance, pre 460cc drivers and Pro V1 golf balls.

 

Now I agree that in either case, the average player will choose the professional equipment to his detriment, but at least he will have had a choice of one or the other without being told he was breaking the rules.

 

In the end none of these will happen, the USGA way is one size has to fit all, I guess my biggest axe to grind is that they are saying they have a problem, and then completely failing to address it when they have some very simple solutions.

 

Scale back the golf ball, scale back the driver, thats it, problem solved, can they do it, sure, will they, nope.

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If the pro ball is restricted flight, then I would play the other type. Pros would likely be mad at a restricted flight ball. How would you address they getting mad at the decrease in stats?

 

Personally, I would tell them that they get paid millions to play golf and not to complain too much... :lol:

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If the pro ball is restricted flight, then I would play the other type. Pros would likely be mad at a restricted flight ball. How would you address they getting mad at the decrease in stats?

 

Personally, I would tell them that they get paid millions to play golf and not to complain too much... :D

 

I think all most pros are interested in is a level playing field, as long as they have that I dont think they have much to complain about. Not that we listen to their complaints much anyway.

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here is my opinion, fwiw...

I don't tune in to the golf telecasts, or go a tour event to watch my favorite pros shoot 2-4 under par for the week. I wanna see some birdies. and Eagles. That is what I miss about the Masters now. That used to be the greatest tournament on the planet on the back nine on Sunday, because you knew someone was going low. Now that course cannot be had. Laying up on 15?? Courses have gotten too long in response to the modern ball and the roughs have gotten too deep in response to the modern driver and wedges. I'd like to see us go back to a shorter ball, shorter golf courses, and wedges with out canyons in the faces. That would be fun.

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Two set of rules is that really necessary?

 

Before I answer that question, ask yourself "Who owns the game of golf?".

My answer to that question is "We all and no-one are", there is nothing that stops

you and your friends to decide your own set of rules or exception from the official rules.

 

As long as you only play each other USGA and/or RANDA don't care if you use "illegal" clubs,

have one mulligan per hole or whatever you think is fair.

The only thing that matter is that you don't put other people in danger,

keep up the pace of play and replace divots / repair pitch marks / rake bunkers etc.

 

But as soon we are competing in organized tournaments a standardized set of rules are (imho) necessary.

 

So my answer to the that question is: No!

 

However USGA is trying to ruin the game, I'm still undecided.

We all seem to want hit the ball further, stop the ball faster on the green, knowing the exact yardage (even though most of us don't hit it consistent). Having yardage on the course is actually a quite young occurrence, Jack Nicklaus "introduced" this to the golfing world in 1966 on Muirfield, prior to this it was not in the spirit of the game to have exact yardage - it was about eye-hand coordination/feel.

If you talk to some golfers (RANDA among others) they agree that USGA is ruining the game by allowing electronic distance measurement devices, quite a few think the opposite.

 

The public has gotten used to see the pro players bomb drivers 300++ yards, to make the courses tougher they have until now made them longer. "Force" players to hit drivers shorter is bad PR, force players to keep it in play isn't. Is this the way to go? To the last three or four soccer world championship FIFA (soccer federation) has allowed new balls that will spin more in order to get more spectacular free-kicks, in a few years I'm sure they will have the same problem as we do in golf - what will their counteraction be? Banning the balls or making the goals smaller, the public has then got used to see the free-kicks cork-screwing their way into goal...

We all long for development in golf, we all want to hit'em longer and straighter - preferably without practising.

 

Currently I'm getting more and more to the point that USGA isn't ruining the game.

 

RANDA's standpoint to this matters is as I interpret it, is that if it wasn't for RANDA, USGA would make golf into Disneyworld.

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Two set of rules is that really necessary?

 

Before I answer that question, ask yourself "Who owns the game of golf?".

My answer to that question is "We all and no-one are", there is nothing that stops

you and your friends to decide your own set of rules or exception from the official rules.

 

As long as you only play each other USGA and/or RANDA don't care if you use "illegal" clubs,

have one mulligan per hole or whatever you think is fair.

The only thing that matter is that you don't put other people in danger,

keep up the pace of play and replace divots / repair pitch marks / rake bunkers etc.

 

But as soon we are competing in organized tournaments a standardized set of rules are (imho) necessary.

 

So my answer to the that question is: No!

 

However USGA is trying to ruin the game, I'm still undecided.

We all seem to want hit the ball further, stop the ball faster on the green, knowing the exact yardage (even though most of us don't hit it consistent). Having yardage on the course is actually a quite young occurrence, Jack Nicklaus "introduced" this to the golfing world in 1966 on Muirfield, prior to this it was not in the spirit of the game to have exact yardage - it was about eye-hand coordination/feel.

If you talk to some golfers (RANDA among others) they agree that USGA is ruining the game by allowing electronic distance measurement devices, quite a few think the opposite.

 

The public has gotten used to see the pro players bomb drivers 300++ yards, to make the courses tougher they have until now made them longer. "Force" players to hit drivers shorter is bad PR, force players to keep it in play isn't. Is this the way to go? To the last three or four soccer world championship FIFA (soccer federation) has allowed new balls that will spin more in order to get more spectacular free-kicks, in a few years I'm sure they will have the same problem as we do in golf - what will their counteraction be? Banning the balls or making the goals smaller, the public has then got used to see the free-kicks cork-screwing their way into goal...

We all long for development in golf, we all want to hit'em longer and straighter - preferably without practising.

 

Currently I'm getting more and more to the point that USGA isn't ruining the game.

 

RANDA's standpoint to this matters is as I interpret it, is that if it wasn't for RANDA, USGA would make golf into Disneyworld.

 

 

I agree no one owns the game, this isnt an ownership issue to me, this is a governing issue, and the USGA generally governs the game in the US.

 

I agree when playing with your friends the rules only matter as much as you choose to enforce them, you can always choose to not play by the rules or by your own set of rules for fun, and you should if it makes it more fun for you.

 

I agree in competition standardized rules are necessary, but you can have 2 sets of standardized rules, I also enjoy english soccer, but a better analogy for this would be that in the US we have professional and collegiate sports played with similar but not identical rules, I dont see why we cant distinguish the rules of golf in a similar fashion.

 

My opinion of the USGA ruining the game is based on the fact that i think the decisions of the USGA regarding equipment have made the game more difficult for the average player thus reducing participation.

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Two set of rules is that really necessary?

 

Before I answer that question, ask yourself "Who owns the game of golf?".

My answer to that question is "We all and no-one are", there is nothing that stops

you and your friends to decide your own set of rules or exception from the official rules.

 

As long as you only play each other USGA and/or RANDA don't care if you use "illegal" clubs,

have one mulligan per hole or whatever you think is fair.

The only thing that matter is that you don't put other people in danger,

keep up the pace of play and replace divots / repair pitch marks / rake bunkers etc.

 

But as soon we are competing in organized tournaments a standardized set of rules are (imho) necessary.

 

So my answer to the that question is: No!

 

However USGA is trying to ruin the game, I'm still undecided.

We all seem to want hit the ball further, stop the ball faster on the green, knowing the exact yardage (even though most of us don't hit it consistent). Having yardage on the course is actually a quite young occurrence, Jack Nicklaus "introduced" this to the golfing world in 1966 on Muirfield, prior to this it was not in the spirit of the game to have exact yardage - it was about eye-hand coordination/feel.

If you talk to some golfers (RANDA among others) they agree that USGA is ruining the game by allowing electronic distance measurement devices, quite a few think the opposite.

 

The public has gotten used to see the pro players bomb drivers 300++ yards, to make the courses tougher they have until now made them longer. "Force" players to hit drivers shorter is bad PR, force players to keep it in play isn't. Is this the way to go? To the last three or four soccer world championship FIFA (soccer federation) has allowed new balls that will spin more in order to get more spectacular free-kicks, in a few years I'm sure they will have the same problem as we do in golf - what will their counteraction be? Banning the balls or making the goals smaller, the public has then got used to see the free-kicks cork-screwing their way into goal...

We all long for development in golf, we all want to hit'em longer and straighter - preferably without practising.

 

Currently I'm getting more and more to the point that USGA isn't ruining the game.

 

RANDA's standpoint to this matters is as I interpret it, is that if it wasn't for RANDA, USGA would make golf into Disneyworld.

Outstanding first post!

I like the soccer comparison. I have watched many draw matches and come away fully satisfied. Not sure what that same would be on the golf course though. Thinking about the electronic yardage too, how would the game change if the caddy didn't have the detailed yardage book for each hole?

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Isn't there already two sets of rules in practice for casual golf vs. tournament golf? For instance, how many times do you walk back to the tee from the fairway with a group behind you to take a penalty?

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The game needs to be sped up with a minimum time restriction per shot. Caddies shouldn't be allowed to offer line advice on putts. GPS devices should be allowed for everyone - as it speeds up and improves play in my experience.

 

The RandA need to get out of the 19th centtury mindset they are in, and move with the times - a GPS device doesn't hit the shot for you, or affect the lie, or the bounce. Its absolutely no different to having a yardage book with dozens of yardages to every feature of the fairway.

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USGA planning equipment forum in Fall 2010

 

http://www.examiner.com/x-1024-Golf-Equipment-Examiner~y2010m3d11-USGA-planning-equipment-forum-in-Fall-2010

 

In an effort to do what it calls “improve the equipment rulemaking process,'' the U.S. Golf Association will hold a forum on the process of equipment rulemaking in Fall 2010. The forum will be held at Golf House in Far Hills, N.J., on a specific date to be determined.

 

The USGA says it is inviting “all stakeholders in the game'' to participate, including manufacturers, players, media, golf organizations and other interested parties. The main purpose of this forum, according to the USGA, is to allow stakeholders the opportunity to make their views on equipment rulemaking known to the USGA, and to each other. The USGA said “appropriate protocols'' will be established to allow an efficient and fair opportunity for those wishing to participate.

 

How the forum will differ from the “public comment'' phase of the equipment rulemaking process remains to be seen. It's no coincidence, however, that the USGA is establishing the forum after the controversial new rule banning square grooves went into affect this past Jan. 1.

 

In a statement, the USGA said, “We anticipate that the forum will provide input that can help the USGA enhance the rulemaking process, including procedures for making new equipment rules, changing existing rules, and modifying rule-associated measurement systems, as well as enhancing the associated processes for implementing such changes.''

 

Examples of topics for discussion include:

• The process by which new equipment rules and rule changes are proposed

• Timing and communication of USGA research projects that potentially could lead to rule changes

• Timing and communication of proposed equipment rule changes

• The process and timing for implementing changes to measurement systems and other rule enforcement methods

• Procedures for considering changes to non-performance related rules

• Consideration of the impacts of potential rule changes and the evaluation, after an appropriate time period, of the results of implemented rule changes

• The process of commenting on proposed rule changes, including confidentiality considerations

• Timing of the implementation of rule changes

• The decision-making process, including communication of the reasons for enacting new equipment rules or changing existing equipment rules

• The appropriate balance between technology and skill in player performance

 

The USGA said the forum can also provide an opportunity “for discussing the process'' by which it renders rulings on individual items of golf equipment submitted for evaluation, as well as consideration of the ways in which relevant information about these rulings might be communicated publicly.

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Isn't there already two sets of rules in practice for casual golf vs. tournament golf? For instance, how many times do you walk back to the tee from the fairway with a group behind you to take a penalty?

 

I always go back if I hit one out of bounds, but I agree with your notion that most dont, and those people who play by the own rules are not affected by the USGA in anyway.

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