Working the ball

[jpcgolf]

My normal shot is a draw, and at my course, I have to shape many shots to the right because there are many hazards on the left with the fairway running towards them.  I also shape the ball to the right sometimes when I need to take 5 yards off of an iron.

[wbealsd]

My natural swing produces a draw and, while I've been learning to fade the ball on the range, it's not a shot I'll generally play when playing for handicap.  When I play in a 2 man scramble league and practice rounds, I'll sometimes try to shape the shot but I'm just not comfortable or consistent enough to attempt it in serious play. 

 

At my level, I just focus on keeping the ball in play and minimizing mistakes.  When I hit the ball into trouble, I just want to make sure I get out of trouble to mitigate the damage and setup my next shot, instead of losing yet another stroke trying to make a shot I'm not confident in.  Bogey is NOT a bad score for me, and I make pars and the occasional birdie more frequently when I stay within my comfort zone.

[mnfats95]

I pull the majority of my shots about 10 yards with my irons otherwise the ball flies straight usually. I almost always play this shot unless the pin is on the right side of the green. I aim 10 yards right of the pin unless that puts me in a bad spot with the pin on the right. In that case I'll aim as far right as I can and if it comes off straight I'm fine or if I pull it I have a long putt.

 

This seems to work well for me, my goal on every hole is GIR. I three putt on average once a round, otherwise I'm pretty solid on the putting. It's a big misleading because when I'm hitting greens I have a lot more putts due to not being as close to the hole when I'm missing greens and chipping on. But it all equals a similar score in the end. I just feel better two putting for a par vs one putting for one.

 

At least I had a chance at birdie right?!

[revkev]

I pull the majority of my shots about 10 yards with my irons otherwise the ball flies straight usually. I almost always play this shot unless the pin is on the right side of the green. I aim 10 yards right of the pin unless that puts me in a bad spot with the pin on the right. In that case I'll aim as far right as I can and if it comes off straight I'm fine or if I pull it I have a long putt.

 

This seems to work well for me, my goal on every hole is GIR. I three putt on average once a round, otherwise I'm pretty solid on the putting. It's a big misleading because when I'm hitting greens I have a lot more putts due to not being as close to the hole when I'm missing greens and chipping on. But it all equals a similar score in the end. I just feel better two putting for a par vs one putting for one.

 

At least I had a chance at birdie right?!

 

 

Obviously I agree with you - I would almost always rather putt on one surface (green) than have to navigate two or more types of grass. (green, fringe, rough, sand, fringe, green - you get the picture)

 

Also have you considered checking the lies on your irons?  If you have a consistent miss and it's happening often enough it may not be the Indian.

[RoverRick]

This week, since this topic has been up, I have paid attention more out on the course, and I would have to say, that beyond a doubt, I am trying to work the ball to some extent on every shot.  There has not been one time when I just went up and whacked the ball without giving thought to how I wanted the ball to fly and then roll after it landed.

 

Sadly, it has not always worked out that way.

 

This decision is made before a club is pulled out of the bag, and is actually a vital part of club selection.  Even lay up shots get some work.  I noticed that I was particularly cautious when laying up on 18 yesterday.  Due to the 20+ mph north wind I would have had to hit a 6-7 iron into the island green, this would not have been a smart play, however, it is just as important to put the ball exactly where you want it on the lay up shot as it is when going for it.  The only thing worse than going for it and ending up in the "watery filth" is ending up there while attempting to lay up.

 

Even if I were to find myself 350 from the green, (yeah, that is a 3 wood distance for some on the internet, but for me that is a couple of 6 irons at least.) But I will not just indiscriminately pull 3 wood and flail away.  Also, I would pay attention to how far the second shot went in relation to what I expected it to go.  Let's say I hit a 6 iron 175.  I decide to hit 6 iron - 6 iron.  If I have 175 left then obviously that was the right club, but if I have 190 or 150 then I know that the ball is traveling shorter or longer than expected so I need to adjust accordingly. 

 

As an aside, I am not likely to hit 3 wood in this situation.  I can not hit a 3 wood that far, I can not hit a driver that far unless down a runway with a jetblast behind me, so why should I hit a hard to hit club.  A 5 wood or hybrid is much easier to hit consistently than a 3 wood.  However, I am more likely to hit an iron, so that I can better gauge how far my next one will fly. 

[fozcycle]

As a former low Hcapper, I have the knowledge to know what to do.  However, since my wrist injury(1998), I am basically a Bogey golfer.  So I just try for there middle of the green.  Lately, I have struggled out of the sand and so I have gone back to a 30 year old sand wedge that I won in a tournament around 1984....a Wilson R90 Original sand wedge.  It's a heavy club and with the bounce, I seem to be able to get out of the sand better.  Actually, I holed out from a deep bunker for a Birdie last week.

 

I know I can get back to the low teens if I can build some confidence in my short game.  My approach shots are usually just off the green, so I need a consistently good chip.

 

Anyway, the R90 is in my bag for now, surrounded by 2014 Cobra irons & woods.

[Rickles]

Rev, this is a great thread. I think that the bottom line is a person needs to do what works best for them. Pro's talk about working the ball a lot and so do commentators but I do not think most pros work the ball that much. All the pros have a stock shot ball flight that they play most of the time. The only pros that seem to constantly work the ball are the true ball striking virtuosos. You hear Johnny Miller talk about that on TV all the time. I also have read that Hogan did this. If the pin was front they hit it high if it was back they knock it down and skip it back. If the pin is right they fade it. If it's left they draw it. Those two are probably the best ball strikers the world has ever known. Also some of the super creative guys do this too. Phil does crazy things and so does Bubba, but they both still have a go to shot. For them it is the lefty cut. However the vast majority and even the best players in the world have a stock shot. Nicklaus cut it almost all the time. Trevino also almost always played a fade. Rory almost always hit a draw. Then there are the guys who are great players and have even in some cases won majors and they never deviate from their natural flight. Kenny Perry always plays a big draw. He aims out over hazards and draws it back to fairways and greens all the time. Bruce Litzke was famous for almost never practicing and not playing when he wasn't on tour and he played nothing but a fade always. We all have our natural tendencies. Know them and play them. For me the tendency has always been a draw it was a big one growing up and after college I worked for years on a fade to avoid the snap. I practiced a lot back then. Now I am back to playing a draw because I don't have time to practice and I have to do what is natural. On the rare occasions when i do practice I hit all types of shots. However, this is more to keep me focused and improve my ball striking than for when I play golf. When I was a +2 I actually hit a draw with the long clubs and then played it dead straight with the short clubs. I also try to adjust to what s happening that day. If I'm drawing it a lot I aim right and play it. If I'm hitting the straight push I try to aim a little left.  

[revkev]

Rickles nice to hear from you and hope you had a great Easter!

 

I agree with your assesment - I rarely miss a year going to see the pros play and often have seen them two or three times in a season.  While there are some who like to work the ball both ways even most of them hit it one way almost exclusively and some excesively although not so much anymore with the newer equipment.

 

Nicklaus was so obsessed with hitting it one way and one way only that he would annually rebuild his game for a draw at August and then tearing down and putting it back together for his fade the rest of the way.  In his prime he was a GIR machine.  Lehman was a draw and draw only guy as was Fuzzy Zoeller.  Hale Irwin was a fade guy and with those old balata balls you could really see that thing curve.  Watson drew the ball, still does.  I also think that most pros flight it up or down although even there you see exceptions - Nicklaus and Watson jumping out which is amazing given that Watson won five Opens playing the ball high - gives you an idea of how solidly he hits it.  I've certainly known guys who can work it comfortably either way, my cousin is a single digit guy who has no preference, but for the most part I think that people at any level are best off playing to their strengths and doing what they do best.

[BIG STU]

As a former low Hcapper, I have the knowledge to know what to do.  However, since my wrist injury(1998), I am basically a Bogey golfer.  So I just try for there middle of the green.  Lately, I have struggled out of the sand and so I have gone back to a 30 year old sand wedge that I won in a tournament around 1984....a Wilson R90 Original sand wedge.  It's a heavy club and with the bounce, I seem to be able to get out of the sand better.  Actually, I holed out from a deep bunker for a Birdie last week.

 

I know I can get back to the low teens if I can build some confidence in my short game.  My approach shots are usually just off the green, so I need a consistently good chip.

 

Anyway, the R90 is in my bag for now, surrounded by 2014 Cobra irons & woods.

Actually I played a R-90 myself for many years. Recently I did play Vokeys until I found out my beloved 58* was not conforming. I looked around and could not find a suitable wedge that weighed and hit like my 58. To be honest I did not want to pay the prices these shops want for a new wedge now. I looked through my stuff and found a Staff Tour Blade JP II that was pristine. I bent it up to 58 and did a little grinding on the sole and lead taped it up for my weight specs. It works great for me and it is conforming because it was made in 1979

[HighFade]

I'm with rev in this one.

 

I try to work the ball maybe once every 3-4 rounds. Usually if I'm stuck behind a tree. And it is extremely rare that I pull it off. I can sometimes draw it but a controlled fade is almost impossible. For me, it's just not worth the effort.

 

"Keep it simple, stupid" is my motto.

[revkev]

Interestingly I had to hit several low shots and one fade yesterday - I was everywhere but where I was supposed to be - I've never had difficulty flighting the ball low or high (although recently the latter has become not as automatic).  Remarkable I pulled off the fade around the tree - 177, pin tucked back behind a trap with traps on the left side of the green - I needed to start the ball at the traps in order to avoid a menancing palm tree oh and of course the wind was into me both for the fade and for the shot to the green.  I actually got a 4 hybrid to cut enough off of those left traps in order to get onto the left side of the green pin high - I also hit it nice and high so that it held that back part of the green - It was easily my most solidly struck shot of the day -

 

Go figure.

[mnfats95]

Obviously I agree with you - I would almost always rather putt on one surface (green) than have to navigate two or more types of grass. (green, fringe, rough, sand, fringe, green - you get the picture)

 

Also have you considered checking the lies on your irons?  If you have a consistent miss and it's happening often enough it may not be the Indian.

 

Oh it's definitely the Indian. I have an outside in swing path that I fought to change for years. I finally gave up and just went with it. I hit the ball very straight most of the time, just 10 yards left of where I "feel" like I'm aiming. Anyway, if I can hit that shot 90% of the time I feel like I know where it's going and it has worked great for me over the past 4 years working my way from a 12 down to a career low 6 last year. I just got brand spanking new clubs which have made me even more consistent and my fitter asked me about my over the top swing and decided that if I wanted to play it he wouldn't say a thing. If anything I hit that shot even more consistently now with the clubs more upright than before as my toe no longer drags every once in awhile causing a weak push to the right.

[revkev]

90 percent is the rule I learned - If you can execute it 90 percent of the time you're good to go so I would agree, why change.

[BIG STU]

Ok, I haven't read any of the prior posts cuz well, I just came off of a WRX thread where the OP asked what club people hit from 230-250yds, LMAO(I swear, go look, LMAO). The number of numb nuts who respond all serious is hillarious, LMAO. I can go 240yds with my 3 metal and a 5-10yd foot wedge. I'm probably gonna get another warning for my sarcasm, lol.

 

Anyway, I can't/don't(well, past tense, since it's been a while, lol) "work, curve, bend" the ball. I can, when I have my Steelhead 3+ in the bag(He Stu, we're the only guys that I know still bangin it ), say from June on, cuz it is to a metal wood what blades are to irons, however I can bring it left to right( I have a natural 3-5 yd draw), and do it decently, to get out of the sh*t that my last shot put me in or to cut a dog leg.

 

I can do the same through my bag in the long end, though I cannot do it to fire at pins, #1, I hit a high ball, and when I have to fade/slice one, it is lower and I cannot consistelty control my trajectory, and #2, unlike Lee, who said that you can "talk to" a fade/slice but a draw/hook "don't listen," well, my fade/slice is frickin bone deaf. You can't talk, scream or anything, lol.

 

I only use it to go around trees and obstacles.

 

And I always aim for center green.

 

Have a great week-end Gals/Gents

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends,

Richard

Ok, I haven't read any of the prior posts cuz well, I just came off of a WRX thread where the OP asked what club people hit from 230-250yds, LMAO(I swear, go look, LMAO). The number of numb nuts who respond all serious is hillarious, LMAO. I can go 240yds with my 3 metal and a 5-10yd foot wedge. I'm probably gonna get another warning for my sarcasm, lol.

 

Anyway, I can't/don't(well, past tense, since it's been a while, lol) "work, curve, bend" the ball. I can, when I have my Steelhead 3+ in the bag(He Stu, we're the only guys that I know still bangin it ), say from June on, cuz it is to a metal wood what blades are to irons, however I can bring it left to right( I have a natural 3-5 yd draw), and do it decently, to get out of the sh*t that my last shot put me in or to cut a dog leg.

 

I can do the same through my bag in the long end, though I cannot do it to fire at pins, #1, I hit a high ball, and when I have to fade/slice one, it is lower and I cannot consistelty control my trajectory, and #2, unlike Lee, who said that you can "talk to" a fade/slice but a draw/hook "don't listen," well, my fade/slice is frickin bone deaf. You can't talk, scream or anything, lol.

 

I only use it to go around trees and obstacles.

 

And I always aim for center green.

 

Have a great week-end Gals/Gents

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends,

Richard

Welcome back RP. Yep the old Cally is still in the bag. I can hit a heck of a bullet ball with it( better known as a stinger) These guys at the beach call it the "Stuey Stinger" but I can also hit a high soft cut with it also. Also changed the gamer irons since we last talked. I am now hitting brand new 2014 Infiniti TS-10s which are a forged cavity back and I swear they hit like a cross between my old MP33s and a Miura no joke. My friend the Infiniti dealer built them for me frequency matched shafts and all. They don't have any Stu modifications at all. my other friend who is a Miura dealer and builder also builds Infinitis calls them poor man's Miuras