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revkev

Working the ball

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This tread calls for honesty on everyone's part so it could be tough but here goes.  (Golf honesty not life honesty, I believe everyone who posts regularly here is life honest.)

 

I constantly read complaints that it's hard to work this or that club because of the gear effect or GI or whatever.  I have to say that my current handicap index is 3.7.  It's been as low as .08 and I've had an entire season where I stayed below 2 only around 3 years ago.  I never "work" the ball beyond my normal ball flight if by working the ball you mean cutting it on one hole or drawing it on another.  I can flight it up or down pretty easily and know how to hit fades(slices), draws (hooks).  But honestly my swing is designed to hit a slight draw, to do anything else goes against the grain and never works well unless I have no other option.  If a pin is tucked right I just play for the middle of the green and I can hit it straight enough that if I'm going down a chute I can drive the ball.

 

Honestly I have a much greater chance of hitting an iron into the middle of the green and holing a 30 footer than I do trying to cut it into a pin.  Chances are that I won't strike it solid and hit it in the front trap or double cross myself and knock it long left or over cut it and short side myself. 

 

What is more when I watch guys on tour there are any number of them that don't like to try and go against their tendancy and espcecially so when it's in cruch time.  If they don't, why is it so important to us?

 

So does anyone here really, honestly feel comfortable enough working the ball that in a tournament with some money on the line you'd go against your normal ball flight just to get it close?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Alpha Distanza 40 weak R flex shaft

Tour Exotics EX 10 3 wood

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,58

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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The only way I am ever going to make birdies is to hit it to about 4 feet, and hope to luck one in.  If the pin is tucked, I have to try to "shape it" in there if I have any hope of making a score. I realize that I double cross myself more often than not. That is the price that I will pay.  Perhaps if I aimed for the center of the green, I might shoot lower scores...  But how much fun is that???


What I lug around the golf course in my MacKenzie Walker.

Driver -   Ping G410 Plus 9° Tour 65 S
Fairway -  :srixon-small: Z785 13.5° Tensei CK Pro Orange 70 S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: Z785  TTDG IT S400 3,5-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX4 Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Nike  Method Converge B1-01 UST Frequency Filter/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black / Ping Anser F/ Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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The only time I try to work the ball opposite of my natural ball flight is if I have no choice, like behind a tree of Somthing like that. And TRY is the word


MY BAG-

Driver- Taylormade SLDR 12* (Speeder 7.2vc tour spec S)

3 Wood- Taylormade R11(bimatrix prototype S)

3 Hybrid- Ping I20(stock S)

Irons-Taylormade Tour Perferred MC ( C Taper S)

Wedges- 50, 54, and 58 SCOR4161( KBS)

Putter-Taylormade Ghost Corza.

 

All Left Handed!

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I don't even have to try... all my shots are either hooked or sliced :D

Keeping them straight is the real challenge for me!

 

On a serious note, only as a last resort would I try something like that... for example having to go around a huge tree to have the slightest chance of hitting the green.

If I have a clear view of the green? Always aim for the middle. I have more confidence in my putting than my approach :D


:callaway-small: GBB Epic 9* w/ Aldila Rogue MAX 65 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black S 80
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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My ball flight is a draw and a fade for me is a slight draw, so no I usually do not hit a shot outside of my normal flight unless I have to do it.  I would rather hit a shot that I am comfortable with into the middle of green than try and pull something off that I am not comfortable with and make double.  As said above I can hole a 20 or 30 footer more often times than I can hit a nice fade in close to the pin.


In the Bag for 2020

PXG 0811XF Gen 2 10.5* (set at 9*) AD VR 6x

PXG 0341X Gen 2 15* AD TP 7x

PXG 0317X Gen 2 19* KBS Proto 95x

PXG 0311T Gen 3 4-6 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 ST 7 - PW KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 50/10 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 54/10 & 58/07 TTDG TI S400

:rife-putters-1: Two Bar Blade Long 47"

 

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My ball flight is a draw and a fade for me is a slight draw, so no I usually do not hit a shot outside of my normal flight unless I have to do it.  I would rather hit a shot that I am comfortable with into the middle of green than try and pull something off that I am not comfortable with and make double.  As said above I can hole a 20 or 30 footer more often times than I can hit a nice fade in close to the pin.

  Identical to me - My fade is a straight ball at best.  :)

 

Of course I can slice the ball around a tree or something any time I want but to control something with a fade?  Right.........

 

Mmmmmmbuddy that's something I hadn't even contemplated but that's also why I started the thread.


Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Alpha Distanza 40 weak R flex shaft

Tour Exotics EX 10 3 wood

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,58

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Mmmmmmbuddy that's something I hadn't even contemplated but that's also why I started the thread.

 

I really should just aim at the middle of every green, I just hate the idea of having 54 putts every round....


What I lug around the golf course in my MacKenzie Walker.

Driver -   Ping G410 Plus 9° Tour 65 S
Fairway -  :srixon-small: Z785 13.5° Tensei CK Pro Orange 70 S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: Z785  TTDG IT S400 3,5-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX4 Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Nike  Method Converge B1-01 UST Frequency Filter/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black / Ping Anser F/ Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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I think the idea of fading or drawing the ball to different pin positions is primarily a topic for golf instruction writers.  Think about it,if you took out every article about shaping shots to different pins or fairway shapes, the mags would only be half as thick.


:titelist-small: Irons Titleist AP2 714, KBS Tour S, 3 flat

:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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  Perhaps if I aimed for the center of the green, I might shoot lower scores...  But how much fun is that???

LOL....it IS fun making the ball bend.  I don't do it to get closer to the pin because honestly whether a putt is 10 ft or 30 ft...the odds are I'm going to 2-putt anyway.

 

I mostly try and work the ball only when I have to...such as around a tree or on a fairway that curves too far for a straight drive.  I can draw it all day long but there are days hitting a fade might as well be like hitting the lottery.  In a tournament....I don't know...don't really play them.  In my weekly round for fun...ya....I like to curve it :-))


In my bag, August 2019
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Driver Kuro Kage Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small: JPX900 Fairway  Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex)
:mizuno-small:  850 Forged 4-PW; KBS Tour (Stiff Flex)
 :callaway-small: PM Grind Wedges
:nike-small: Method Core

 
:titelist-small:  ProV1X Balls
Sun Mountain Cart Bag
:Clicgear: 3.5 Push Cart

HDCP 8.9

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When i was a LOT younger, I used to have the time and desire to practice.  I would go to the range and do the Johnny Miller Drill. 9 balls, 9 different shots. Low left, low straight, low right, Mid left, ect...  I got to the point that I could hit all of the shots with almost equal confidence....  That leads us to today. I never practice, and I still think that I can hit any shot, so I try it.


What I lug around the golf course in my MacKenzie Walker.

Driver -   Ping G410 Plus 9° Tour 65 S
Fairway -  :srixon-small: Z785 13.5° Tensei CK Pro Orange 70 S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: Z785  TTDG IT S400 3,5-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX4 Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Nike  Method Converge B1-01 UST Frequency Filter/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black / Ping Anser F/ Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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If I hit it dead straight, it's probably not going to go where I was hoping. I love trying to move the ball, and the satisfaction of getting it right is awesome. The word "trying" would be the operative word though. In reality, I will TRY to shape shots, but if I'm not able to control it, and it's obvious that that's the kind of round it will be, I'll try to default to a draw. In the end, I get a huge kick out of executing when I'm trying to shape the ball, but sometimes I run into trouble. In trouble, my biggest mistake is not having a good feel for a fade. It's very easy to over cook that shot and end up right. One of the biggest things I've learned though, is that it's extremely important to shift the ball position in addition to changing the swing to get quality contact.

 

I really just like the creativity that shaping shots brings to the game.


Driver: TaylorMade R9 9.5* with a Diamana Kai'li 70 S shaft

Fairway: TaylorMade R9 TP 13* with Graphite Design Tour AD YSQ-st X flex

 

UtilityWilson Staff FYbrid 19.5* Aldila RIP Sigma Stiff

 

Irons: Wilson Staff FG Tour V2 KBS Tour X flex 4-pw (soft-stepped)

Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour TC 50* (standard grind, bent to 51*) TT DG Spinner, 56* and 60* (tour grinds, bent to 55* and 59*) Dynamic Gold Wedge flex

Putter: Yes! Abbie Tour Forged Pro Series 33" 

Ball: Wilson Staff FG Tour, Maxfli U4

 

Bag: Wilson Staff NeXus 100th Anniversary carry bag

 

Backup Irons: Wilson Staff FG-17 Tour Blades with TT Dynamic Stiff 3-PW

 

Backup Utility: Mizuno MP-H4 2 iron TT Dynamic Gold R300

 

Backup Putter: Pro Gear CG 100 33" (Pro Gear is what turned into Yes!)

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I will be completely honest (I have been taught it is a mortal sin to lie to a man of the cloth :)) My natural shot is the fade It is a purely defensive move on my part. In my younger days I could hit some bad rope hooks and I could not control it. I self taught myself the fade. I use a open stance and hit from the outside in with the face about 2* open at impact. I hit what is called a baby cut and I can variate it and control it and have absolute confidence in it. My old man was a draw man and hit the prettiest controlled draw I ever saw. He hated my cut until the day he died. I absolutely cannot control a draw. I can hit a draw when absolutely necessary but can not say 90% of the time how it will end up. I will play to a cut even if it means laying back and possibably hitting a wedge in. If I happen to hit it straight oh no!! But I base my game on my wedge and putter play. I am fortunante I don't know due to technology or using my brain but I hit my driver more controlled than I ever have. In a pressure situation if I try to hit a draw usually my dreaded rope hook comes in so I take my chances with my wedges and putter


Driver Homna  G1- X Stock Homna Regular shaft

4 wood Adams Tight Lies 

20* Hybrid Adams Boxer Ozik Matrix R shaft

24* Hybrid Adams A 10-OS Pro Launch Red R

Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW- Macgregor LRA 56* S-400

Putter 1997 Santa Fe rusty as heck

 

 

 

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It's interesting to me that thus far it's the lower handicappers that opt to play their shot. Understand I mean no disrespect what so ever by writing that and we have a pretty small sample.

 

On the range I like to try my hand at the miller drill too but there's no way I'm doing it for real on the course under pressure.


Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Alpha Distanza 40 weak R flex shaft

Tour Exotics EX 10 3 wood

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,58

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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Yes.  I work the ball, but more so off the tee than at the flag.  Off the tee I can hit high or low or fade or draw with the driver.  I will vary this on different holes and factor in the wind.  If there is no wind I would normally hit a fade on 1, 3, 8, 14, & 18 on my course and a draw on 2, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12, 15, & 16.  On par 3's I generally hit a draw, except on 13 where I start the ball at the left bunker and hope it fades back.  A straight shot there leads to hitting out of the bunker or a double cross means I have to pitch on the green, but with water short and right I avoid the water.

 

They are in the process of adding 16 fairway bunkers so this will have to be reevaluated once that is done.  Number 1 hole, I have always aimed at the big tree on the left and let it fade back to the fairway, however, they are building a huge fairway bunker (we have already nicknamed it Le Brea, after the tar pits because it looks like you could be trapped in it for hundreds of years).  But generally, I hit the shot off the tee that will give me the best opening to the green. 

 

I generally, do not hit fades with mid or short irons and much prefer hitting a draw.  The longer the club the easier I find it to fade, except hybrids.  I also prefer to hit lower but spinning shots into the green.  We have lots of wind, and I find it is easier to control the distance with a knocked down shot and either hit it with spin or hit it with runout depending on the situation.  But the high fade is a last resort for me.  

 

As I write this I think of number 6 on Sunday.  The pin was so that I could have hit a high fade with the 9 iron and the wind probably would have kept it from cutting to much and going into the water.  I was down 2 holes and since I hit the longest drive, and saw my opponents did not make the green on their second shot, I considered this.  However, in the end, I decided to knock down a 7 iron and take the wind and the water out of play.  Some @$$ dropped a 30' putt to tie me on the hole, and my second and third shots did not turn out as good as I had hoped, but they were not bad shots, and I still made my par.  The high-fade-that-did-not would not have turned out as well.   

 

I find, especially with the driver, setting up to hit a draw or a fade, and a high or a low shot, helps me focus better on the target and the set up.  There are of course days when I have to chose one because the other is not working, and if I am hitting fades that day better than draws I will stick with it.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

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I only shape the ball on certain occasions. I will try to shape the ball on tee shots (if I need to) with a 3 wood or hybrid but not driver. I will shape a shot if I need to get around a tree some obstacle. I don't shape shots when I have shot at the green, I just try to get it on however I can.

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I can move the ball left and right (even though most of the time is unwanted, I know why the shot happens)

But how do you move the ball higher/lower? Ball positioning? Finish? Serious question :)


:callaway-small: GBB Epic 9* w/ Aldila Rogue MAX 65 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black S 80
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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I can move the ball left and right (even though most of the time is unwanted, I know why the shot happens)

But how do you move the ball higher/lower? Ball positioning? Finish? Serious question :)

Ball position can help. The release is kind of different to me. I tend to drag the club head through with my hands ahead more to hit it low and get the shaft closer to vertical for a higher shot.. My lead shoulder unwinds up more and faster maybe for a high shot I think. It's hard to describe how. It's more of a "Think low or high" difference than consciously thinking about how to do it for me. Whatever works for you to control the club face in the vertical direction. Just play with it and see.

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This is a great topic revkev, and reading the results has been really interesting so far. I don't really work the ball into the green, and it's not because I don't desperately want to be able to, it's because I'm a little hit and miss with that strategy.

 

I do try and work the ball off the tee if a situation calls for it, and sometimes my second shot on a long par 5. Especially if it's a long dog leg, or you have to play off of some kind of trouble (like avoiding a really long waste area or water)

 

With me it's mostly about foot position/alignment. Closed fade, open cut. I hit almost everything with a closed foot position to hit my normalish shot which is a slight draw. Or a total snap hook depending on how good my round is going. (The better the round the more probability of a snap hook on 17 or 18)

 

I use some pretty serious GI irons, those wishon 770s are about as GI as it gets, and if I'm playing around with them on the range I can definitely still work the ball with them. I don't do that on the course, but at least for me, the GI aspect of the club doesn't impact ability to work the ball (on the range where it doesn't count anyway)

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This is a great topic revkev, and reading the results has been really interesting so far. I don't really work the ball into the green, and it's not because I don't desperately want to be able to, it's because I'm a little hit and miss with that strategy.

I do try and work the ball off the tee if a situation calls for it, and sometimes my second shot on a long par 5. Especially if it's a long dog leg, or you have to play off of some kind of trouble (like avoiding a really long waste area or water)

With me it's mostly about foot position/alignment. Closed fade, open cut. I hit almost everything with a closed foot position to hit my normalish shot which is a slight draw. Or a total snap hook depending on how good my round is going. (The better the round the more probability of a snap hook on 17 or 18)

I use some pretty serious GI irons, those wishon 770s are about as GI as it gets, and if I'm playing around with them on the range I can definitely still work the ball with them. I don't do that on the course to hit a pin from a certain side, but at least for me, the GI aspect of the club doesn't impact ability to work the ball (on the range where it doesn't count anyway)

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Sorry for the double post there, my ipad got a little weird. If my double post along with this one can be deleted that would be great.

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