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Enjoyed the article but.

game improvement is based on options to select a precise flex from the same shaft for your unique swing.

 

The problem is when changing the flex profile of a driver shaft they feel really to stiff. We have solved that big problem.

 

Facts are the head is mainly for forgiveness. The shaft, if it is the right one to fit your unique swing, can mean a big time game improvement.

 

We fit based on a new concept.

Options to Maximize by

Increasing swing speed

Increasing more dead center hits at impact

Swing weight improvement

 

We look for the best swing speed combined with the best center impacts.

 

In these 14 different flex profiles, there is probably a perfect fit for you. But, the only way to find it, is hit them until you find it. The only way. The rest of fitting methods are good guesses. image.jpgimage.jpg

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So where are you located?

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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Head and shaft go hand in hand, neither being more important than the other but combined equally important . Flex profile of one shaft will fit in the correct head, but change the head, doesn't matter if loft and face angle are identical , and that shaft can and will perform differently. Case in point, my previous driver that it took almost 49 tried to beat. I pulled the shaft and put it in an identical loft Covert. Didn't touch the SFTP 2.0 LCG. Nothing changed except the head and it's design. Loft was within 1/4 degree digitally lofted and was within 2 hundredths openness. Couldn't get the covert off the ground hardly but the SFTP was bombs away. With all the different head designs and techs these days, every fitting with every club will be individualized and different. But neither the head nor the shaft are more important than the other. And that comes from some of the foremost minds in fitting (Wishon, Maltby, etc). It's a marriage

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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IMO, I manufacture a head also that is 97% of USGA ct/COR and will compete with any head on the market. I choose not to sell it because the Bigs have more money to BS golfers with their claims. My head was analyzed by Clay Long probably the best designer in the business.

I take what he says as fact. He has been doing this for a long time. The best to the worse approved head on the market can only produce at the most 7 yards more.

 

Forgiveness, is the heads job for people who can't hit the sweet spot consistently. The shaft is the game changer. I've tried them all. The people in the business know this but there in the business to make money not better golfers. That is why golfers are not playing as much anymore.

 

Why want the bigs sell you a head and let you find the right shaft for your unique swing. Their cost is about $40 and they sell them for $400. Your buying advertising not game improvement.

IMO, Each shaft needs to be demoed like our shaft but they can't get past it feeling to stiff.

 

Do you really think L A R S X XX are

enough flexes to fit most golfers?

 

IMO,

Hitting a stiffer shaft that doesn't feel stiff is the best way to stay in control of your game.

But this is only my opinion after experiencing and fitting thousands of golfers. That and a dollar can buy you a cup of coffee.

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I'll still stand with Ralph Maltby and Tom Wishon, the two foremost fitters in the game and the guys that wrote and developed the clubfitting schools now taught nationwide.  Neither are involved with major OEM's and both have their own brands.  Frank Thomas stands on the balance beam as well, saying both are equally important.  Who's word do I believe as the gospel?  The guys that wrote the clubfitting bible.  

Wishon is quoted, in several places actually, as saying that the shaft is like the transmission of the golf club and the head is the engine, both equally important and required for a fully functioning club.  There are too many variables to list here, for brevity's purposes, that effect head selection, shaft selection and everything that goes into a properly fitted club.  The shaft isn't more important than the head.  The head controlling initial launch and directionality and the shaft fine tuning it.  There's no perfect shaft that works for a certain golfer in every head.  Iron Byron testing has proven that the head or the shaft being varied can change the launch when nothing else changes.  The Byron doesn't care what club is in there nor the shaft nor the head.  It's programmed to swing a repetitive motion every time, and varying the shaft and the head will produce different results based on the properties of both.  

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Enjoyed the article but.

game improvement is based on options to select a precise flex from the same shaft for your unique swing.

 

The problem is when changing the flex profile of a driver shaft they feel really to stiff. We have solved that big problem.

 

Facts are the head is mainly for forgiveness. The shaft, if it is the right one to fit your unique swing, can mean a big time game improvement.

 

We fit based on a new concept.

Options to Maximize by

Increasing swing speed

Increasing more dead center hits at impact

Swing weight improvement

 

We look for the best swing speed combined with the best center impacts.

 

In these 14 different flex profiles, there is probably a perfect fit for you. But, the only way to find it, is hit them until you find it. The only way. The rest of fitting methods are good guesses. attachicon.gifimage.jpgattachicon.gifimage.jpg

How I wish I could have all of that... whole selection of shafts and club heads.

 

Wonder how much it would cost to have all that?

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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Some heads are designed to perform differently so we can get those max yards.

 

It's not as simple as CoR, in fact the reason why low spin became the mantra for distance is that during the days of .83 vs .86 CoR it was measured the .86 heads produced lower spin. This is apples to apples TM R300/R320/R360 vs 300/320/360. So the quest has been to replicate that lower spin while maintaining good launch/spin. Different swings need different head designs to hit those conditions.

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You forgot to say "you". You are the motor or the engine. How fast You can swing the club head and hit dead center determines distance. Not taking launch angle and spin to defy gravity and friction into account or direction. Some shafts, make you wait on them because they are to whippy. Some shafts are to stiff and feel harsh at impact. Feel plays a big role in golf. The hardest thing to change for a golfer is his natural tempo. Under pressure, it always comes back. I have watched a tempo meter repeat time after time for each golfer. If you play golf, you have pressure. How each golfer attacks the golf ball is unique. A simple hitting test to try different performance flex profiles to see what feels and functions best for your swing is not magic. To me, it's just common sense. After all, a round of golf is expensive. If you hit the center of the club face each time pointed at the target, it doesn't matter what head you have on the shaft. Try to do that with the wrong shaft. Most people try to do it every time they play.

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I agree with the analogy of the golfer being the engine.  That's where the power is generated.  The shaft transmits that power to the head. I guess the head could be called the final drive that delivers the power to its target, the ball. 

 

You mentioned the standard flex designations not being enough to cover all golfers. When you take into consideration all the flex profiles available, I think it is. You can have a stiff shaft feel softer or stiffer depending on its bend profile; high launch/spin, low launch/spin, butt stiff or soft,  high,  mid, low bend point, etc. All of that allows a wide range of fitting options even in one flex designation. 

 

I agree with Rookie, put a different head on the same shaft that was fit for someone and it can change everything and now that shaft isn't best. Put the right shaft for that head and that person and it could out perform a previously fitted combo. It's definitely not head or shaft. It's the right combination of both. 

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I agree with the analogy of the golfer being the engine.  That's where the power is generated.  The shaft transmits that power to the head. I guess the head could be called the final drive that delivers the power to its target, the ball. 

 

You mentioned the standard flex designations not being enough to cover all golfers. When you take into consideration all the flex profiles available, I think it is. You can have a stiff shafts feel softer or stiffer depending on its bend profile; high launch/spin, low launch/spin, but stiff or soft,  high,  mid, low bend point, etc. All of that allows a wide range of fitting options even in one flex designation. 

 

I agree with Rookie, put a different head on the same shaft that was fit for someone and it can change everything and now that shaft isn't best. Put the right shaft for that head and that person and it could out perform a previously fitted combo. It's definitely not head or shaft. It's the right combination of both. 

 

 

Heck why not throw grip in there too because it does matter - try making a good swing with a grip that's worn or one that is too thin or too thick and see what happens.  Ball matters also -

 

I hate to be a pain but to single one out and not think that the others "matter" is a mistake IMO.

 

Golfer, shaft, head, grip, ball might be one way to rank the variables but all can have a significant impact on the shot and beyond golfer I'm not quite sure what comes next.  You might say ball but if we limit the ball only to current choices on the market that makes it less of a variable but do you see the implication if I made you play with gutta pecha?  I think you'd have an entirely different head and shaft to produce the best results.

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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Heck why not throw grip in there too because it does matter - try making a good swing with a grip that's worn or one that is too thin or too thick and see what happens.  Ball matters also -

 

I hate to be a pain but to single one out and not think that the others "matter" is a mistake IMO.

 

Golfer, shaft, head, grip, ball might be one way to rank the variables but all can have a significant impact on the shot and beyond golfer I'm not quite sure what comes next.  You might say ball but if we limit the ball only to current choices on the market that makes it less of a variable but do you see the implication if I made you play with gutta pecha?  I think you'd have an entirely different head and shaft to produce the best results.

Good point! 

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Your right, It all matters. But, the hardest thing to find is the right shaft.

That could easily be the case not just flex but flex/weight I have no doubt that finding the proper shaft is an art. That's why despite the discussion we truly appreciate fitters like yourself who make the game more enjoyable for hacks like us.

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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my statements are based feedback from 1000s golfers who I have fit. I can assure you the way golfers select shafts for their woods is not getting the job done. It depends on luck not technology. The system is set up for the 4 lastest Taylor Made woods. We will set it up for the other best known brands. You will then see how your thinking comes out.

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my statements are based feedback from 1000s golfers who I have fit. I can assure you the way golfers select shafts for their woods is not getting the job done. It depends on luck not technology. The system is set up for the 4 lastest Taylor Made woods. We will set it up for the other best known brands. You will then see how your thinking comes out.

 

 

I'm not disagreeing with you Bruiser I'm simply pointing out that everything matters in this regard.  I'm not a fitter so I haven't a clue which one is the most difficult although I suspect that you are correct and its the shaft.  My experience when being fit is that its finding the proper shaft to go with the selected head.  My further point was that its not only flex that matters but the weight of the shaft and for that matter the length of the shaft come into play.  For example if you have a player in a certain shaft and he's consistently hitting it towards the heal side of center a shorter shaft may well be in order.  If he's getting too much spin it may be that a heavier shaft, rather than a different flex, will reign the spin numbers in - we also know that its possible to mitigate against the spin with less loft or perhaps even a different head.  I don't envy the fitter because he must determine which combo is the best choice for that player and his swing.

 

I don't think the simplistic answer like the shaft is most important or the head is, always works here.  For the most part this crowd is better informed than the average person that is walking into a shop for a fitting.

 

At any rate I was trying to compliment you and anyone who properly fits people for a living.

 

Best wishes on your work.

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

In general, I think the shaft does very little to affect the performance, however it does affect feel and affect how you swing. If a shaft feels too stiff and boardy, one would tend to swing harder just to get the right feel, resulting in overall poor performance. 

 

The right shaft matched to a club head of choice WILL result in very significant performance improvements. I say that with confidence because that is exactly what happened to me. 

 

That said, when dealing with club heads like SLDR, finding the right loft matters because here again you want to get the right launch and spin numbers - which is highly dependant on getting the loft correct.

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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In general, I think the shaft does very little to affect the performance, however it does affect feel and affect how you swing. If a shaft feels too stiff and boardy, one would tend to swing harder just to get the right feel, resulting in overall poor performance. 

 

The right shaft matched to a club head of choice WILL result in very significant performance improvements. I say that with confidence because that is exactly what happened to me. 

 

That said, when dealing with club heads like SLDR, finding the right loft matters because here again you want to get the right launch and spin numbers - which is highly dependant on getting the loft correct.

I'd respectfully disagree on the matter of the shaft. I think many of us have seen huge differences in results through shaft changes on the same head within a fitting. I've seen huge results just from same shaft, same head different weight and/or length of the shaft.

 

It's the whole package and it's not one size fits all although a better player probably can adjust and manipulate misfit equipment quicker than most.

Ping G410 - turned down to11.25 degrees, neutral setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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In general, I think the shaft does very little to affect the performance, however it does affect feel and affect how you swing. If a shaft feels too stiff and boardy, one would tend to swing harder just to get the right feel, resulting in overall poor performance. 

 

The right shaft matched to a club head of choice WILL result in very significant performance improvements. I say that with confidence because that is exactly what happened to me. 

 

That said, when dealing with club heads like SLDR, finding the right loft matters because here again you want to get the right launch and spin numbers - which is highly dependant on getting the loft correct.

The shaft feel is important. The right angle of attack and loft is important. But if you have a shaft that is moving all over the place, your up the well known creek.

 

What I have proven with this method is the right shaft can bring the golfer to hitting the center of the club face more consistently. And, it will actually increase the golfers swing speed. Those are the most important factor of a driver.

 

The old fitting instructions. No Tip. Is rediculous. I am seeing better performance with tips as much as 4 " off the tip. I am talking better spin, launch angles, variance, and distance.

 

But you are right about feel. My shafts don't feel broady with huge tips. Strange but true.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd respectfully disagree on the matter of the shaft. I think many of us have seen huge differences in results through shaft changes on the same head within a fitting. I've seen huge results just from same shaft, same head different weight and/or length of the shaft.

 

It's the whole package and it's not one size fits all although a better player probably can adjust and manipulate misfit equipment quicker than most.

 

 

No worries on disagreeing with me, that's the point of this forum.

 

IMHO, a shaft's specs has less influence on a player than how it feels to the player. The weight any how lively it feels when swung, provides the feedback to the player which ultimately affect how he hits the ball.

 

My experience is when playing an unfamiliar shaft, the first hit would usually be respectable but not quite on par with what I am used to. But subsequent hits might get better or worse depending on how I try to swing to replicate the same feel that I am accustom to with the shaft that I had been using for a while.

 

It is the extra effort, or reduced efforts that makes a difference in performance. So I opined it's the feedback loops to the human player that plays a more drastic difference to the final performance of the club. Eventually the golfer gets used to this new shaft and sort of figures how how to handle it properly. Then the performance more or less plateau, and if he goes back to the old shaft that he was so familiar with, it felt weird and performed weird.

 

That's speaking from personal experience. Again, I may well be totally wrong, feel free to disagree.

Now in my bag:

TM SLDR 10.5 Deg with Matrix Ozik 6Q3 S flex

TM VSteel 15 deg 3 wood

Cleveland Launcher Hybrid 18 deg Diamana Red Board Stiff

Titleist ZB Forged Iron 3-PW DG S200 Steel Shaft

Cleveland CG15 46, 52, 56, 60 Wedges

Scotty Cameron California Del Mar

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