State of Golf in the US today, How bad is it?

[markb]

Rarely do we see real stats to backup our nagging suspicion that our beloved game is in real trouble. It's like everyone is afraid to utter Lord Voldemort's name. Then I found this article:  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-23/golf-market-stuck-in-bunker-as-thousands-leave-the-sport.html

 

• 400,000 golfers quit last year.
• 160 US courses closed last year, only 14 opened.
• TMag 1st quarter sales off 34%
• Callayway stock off 9%, predicts 2014 earnings will come in at or below low range estimates.
• Dick's 1st q golf revenues $34 million below predictions.
• Rounds played in 2013 lowest since 1995.

What signs do you guys see in your areas?  My biggest sign is the fact that I haven't called for a tee time in 3 years.  No need, there's always an opening.Yesterday, the pro told me I could even get out on Men's League Night.  It used to be closed, but there's only 35 guys in th League and only half show up.

[fozcycle]

Two years ago while visiting my Sister in Lexington KY, I could not get on the Pete Dye course just 5 minutes from her house. This year there was no problem. While playing there yesterday, there were only a couple other groups on the course. For this time of year, that is not good.

 

At home in Tampa, you still need a tee time to play, but that is usually not a prob. I do note that many other groups show up at courses with printouts of prepaid rounds. I guess the Golf Now stats are up.

[revkev]

We are having a discussion about this on another thread but yours is a different take. I live across the Bay from Foz but my observations are somewhat similar. You're safest to have a tee time to play on the courses near me. We've had two courses close in the past five years and more telling any number of "private" courses are no longer private in the summer and some are even available on golf now in season.

 

I recently read some stats that even more distressing than the decline in people playing is the decline in avid golfers. I'm sure that's what accounts for this depressing sales figures.

[Jondagcl]

I'd agree with the article that a younger generation (my generation and younger) are not playing the sport. As a 30-something it's tough even finding people my age that play. And when you do it's a person that owns golf clubs that were his dads, and they play once or twice a year for the heck of it.

 

And you know who plays golf at my age, a person who's dad played golf. What happens when we go an entire generation with dads that didn't play, and therefore didn't teach their kid? Golf isn't something you usually stumble upon. No one gets home, grabs a wedge and 3 neighbor friends and goes and chips. Unless you live at a country club and in that case you aren't in the target demographic to grow the game.

 

It's tough reading articles like that, especially when they talk about "executives not wanting to chase small balls" anymore. They nailed it, people that don't golf view golf as just that. A handful of rich guys hanging out. News flash, do a demographics survey...that's a small group of people. And when even they stop playing what do you do?

[Jondagcl]

For the sake of discussion and not rehashing the same conversation we are having in another thread, what about golf coverage on TV? I love golf, but watching tournament golf on TV can get brutal even for me. (Don't factor in a European event, because I would quite literally find it more exciting to look out my window.)

 

Do an experiment, turn on golf channel and ask a kid to sit there and watch it. The commentators talk about nonsense, the way the action is shown forces you to watch people like Keegan Bradley make 6 false starts at his ball before he finally hits it, and then a commentator says something in a hushed tone as we watch a person walk 75 yards.

 

Getting golf on TV when there are more people than just myself at the house is a impossible task. When someone says what games are on, I guarantee you they aren't asking about the Greenbriar. If no one wants to watch it, who's gonna play it?

 

The risk is, the people that religiously watch it probably like the coverage the way it is. There's the rub right?

[GolfSpy WD]

I love watching golf on TV and my son can watch it for hours. Maybe that's just us.

 

The stats are scary and I have noticed it's been easier to get a tee time this year. The real problem though is the price. I went during peak hours with my son on Sunday and it cost $97 because we splurged for a cart. I can't do that every weekend and this particular course was too hilly for him to walk it without his push cart.

 

I still think non-conforming equipment is the other big part of the solution (not the only other big part). Anything to make the game easier to get into. Then if you want a real handicap, play conforming stuff.

[sp0rtsfan86]

For the sake of discussion and not rehashing the same conversation we are having in another thread, what about golf coverage on TV? I love golf, but watching tournament golf on TV can get brutal even for me. (Don't factor in a European event, because I would quite literally find it more exciting to look out my window.)

 

Do an experiment, turn on golf channel and ask a kid to sit there and watch it. The commentators talk about nonsense, the way the action is shown forces you to watch people like Keegan Bradley make 6 false starts at his ball before he finally hits it, and then a commentator says something in a hushed tone as we watch a person walk 75 yards.

 

Getting golf on TV when there are more people than just myself at the house is a impossible task. When someone says what games are on, I guarantee you they aren't asking about the Greenbriar. If no one wants to watch it, who's gonna play it?

 

The risk is, the people that religiously watch it probably like the coverage the way it is. There's the rub right?

I've never had a huge problem with golf coverage, but you are right. Most annoying part of the coverage is the starts and stops of a persons pre shot routine. Unfortunately, you never know when a golfer is just going to start over again. Then again, what else can they do? Hate to say it, golf is devoid of any personalities that really pop off the page. Tiger is known for being somewhat of a boring interview, and other than Bubba and Phil, I don't see really a lot of big personalities that cross over. 

 

Just think the big issue is plain out cost for most people.

[markb]

Where is this other thread that is a close duplicate to this one?   I can't find it, but then I tend to only look at recent posts.

 

On another downer note, I just learned that the city of Salt Lake has imposed a "pay your way with greens fees" edict on the city owned courses and that means closure is looming for 3 public tracks that can't cover their operating costs without subsidies.   They can't raise fees because existing golfers will go elsewhere for less.

 

And what that one guy said about Country Clubs is right.  Our one local CC has waived its buy-in, existing members are trying to sell their memberships in the want ads.

 

I guess I'm part of the problem.  Our one local off course retail store changed hands twice in the past year -- once to Edwin Watts, then belly up and back to the original name.  I've never bought a new club from them and it's always empty.

[JohnBarry]

Simple, the economy is in way worse shape this year than even last year. Golf is one of the first thing effected. Simple!

[fozcycle]

I just finished playing the University Club Wildcat track at the U of KY in Lexington, Ky. Two years ago ( my last visit) the U Club was not open to the public. Now it is. Today the course was reasonably filled, with a large children's clinic being held on their large practice range. We were a twosome and the group in front of us was also a twosome. So we introduced ourselves and made a foursome for 18 holes.

 

It seems that the youth are not getting involved because: my two great nephews both have clubs(one set from me) but they don't get taken to the range or get to actually play, probably due to the cost and then the time requirement of their parent.

 

When I was their age, I spent my entire day at the golf club, caddying, looking for balls, putting and playing. I rode my bike to the course. Today, a parent will not allow a child to ride to the course and hang out all day.

 

Part of the blame must go on the parents, for not taking time to allow their kids to get into the action of golf.

 

My parents only played for a short while.....my golf was learned while pulling my grandfathers BagBoy cart. You can't do that today as many courses require you to rent a cart when playing.

 

The First Tee program is terrific, but there are not enough clubs taking responsibility to set it up.

[Jondagcl]

I love the first tee program and any local course that sponsors kids events. But Mark your not to blame for not buying enough gear, and Foz I don't fault parents either. Why do we have to buy AND sell this thing. The responsibility to put out a good product (and by product I don't just mean a golf club, I mean Golf) falls to the people that profit from it. If they can't figure out how to keep this sport viable, it's on us? Really?

 

All we can control is how quickly we play and how friendly we are to folks out on the course. Do you play fast? Are you friendly to people and don't act like a douche bag on the golf course when new people are around? If you answered yes to those two questions your doing what you can do in my opinion.

 

It shouldn't be, "Hey guys we sell golf products and less and less people are buying them. Go out there and convince people to keep playing."

[revkev]

For those who say it's the money and I would understand why, consider these two things.

 

Tennis is ridiculously cheap compared to golf and it experienced a crash similar to the one golf is currently experiencing a couple of decades ago.

 

Disney is ridiculously expensive and it's located in a place where the weather is unbearable four months out of the year and it is always packed.

 

It could simply be that golf experienced an unnatural spike because of the Tiger factor and it's just drifting back to normal. I'm starting to wonder if that's not it.

[markb]

For those who say it's the money and I would understand why, consider these two things.

 

Tennis is ridiculously cheap compared to golf and it experienced a crash similar to the one golf is currently experiencing a couple of decades ago.

 

Disney is ridiculously expensive and it's located in a place where the weather is unbearable four months out of the year and it is always packed.

 

It could simply be that golf experienced an unnatural spike because of the Tiger factor and it's just drifting back to normal. I'm starting to wonder if that's not it.

I'm starting to wonder if its boom and bust cycle is not tied to even larger forces.  Maybe Golf is tied to the boom and bust of the American Empire.  It boomed in the 20's, fell back till the 50's, boomed with Eisenhower baby boom again. Now that's done, America has peaked, and the global economy (and golf) has gone east.

[dru_]

For those who say it's the money and I would understand why, consider these two things.

 

Tennis is ridiculously cheap compared to golf and it experienced a crash similar to the one golf is currently experiencing a couple of decades ago.

 

Disney is ridiculously expensive and it's located in a place where the weather is unbearable four months out of the year and it is always packed.

 

It could simply be that golf experienced an unnatural spike because of the Tiger factor and it's just drifting back to normal. I'm starting to wonder if that's not it.

 

This 1000x.

 

I don't buy that golf is imploding, I just feel that it is normalizing after an obscene growth cycle.  That said, there are problems with the game, and some of them are cultural.

 

Consider that many of the younger generation will think nothing of playing a video game for 5 hours but will balk at golfing for 5 hours. Why?

 

How about the cost? many spend upwards of $400 a month on video games, and over 1000 per year on equipment, but balk at the cost of golf. Why?

 

Many golf courses have resorted to raising already inflated food and beverage costs, and then lament that players no longer hang out and socialize like they used to...

 

Many pro shops have cut back to stocking little more than balls, trinkets and a small clothing selection because they cannot compete with online pricing.

 

Many courses no longer employ full time teaching pros, because not enough players used them.

 

Fitters? Nope.

 

Look at t places like Top Golf.  It's a bar, that doubles as a driving range with bowling alley like games.  They are booming, and they aren't cheap (45 / hour)

 

At the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves why our excuses might be flawed. Asking around the teens in my children's circles I find that the answers lie in things we rarely even bring up...

 

Many of them enjoy playing, but they live in such a hyper exposed world that they are acutely afraid of embarrassing themselves in front of others.  They don't want to dress like old farts (their words). They want to be able to enjoy a little music while they play, but that is deemed rude.  There were alot of other reasons, but those were the most common, and sensible.

 

Dress codes are fine, but most of the under 40 crowd has no interest in playing a game that requires them to play in business casual attire. Relax the idea that silence is golden (let's be honest, what other sport is played in silence). As for the embarrassment issue, yeah, grow the heck up is a good start, but hey this is the same reason I cannot get my wife out to play much.  She thinks she is terrible and won't go out unless she thinks the course will be empty.

 

So yeah, the slow play, cost, boring excuses might play, but I really think huge parts of the problems stem from golf's country club culture roots and image.  We are talking about 2 generations that live in blue jeans and t-shirts.  They don't do anything in silence.  They live loud and in public. Until the clubs embrace that, you simply aren't going to appeal to a broader marketplace.

[Jondagcl]

It could simply be that golf experienced an unnatural spike because of the Tiger factor and it's just drifting back to normal. I'm starting to wonder if that's not it.

Along similar lines, a few years back the Wall Street Journal (feel free to google that and find it if the article sounds interesting) ran an article something along the lines of - the bust of the housing market associated with golf course developments. I'll do my best to paraphrase an article I haven't read in a long time.

 

To attract luxury home buyers, golf coursers were set up alongside new home developments. Fancy homes built, championship golf course in your backyard. With the rationale I'm sure being, "what else do wealthy retired folks like to do besides golf? Isn't that what they all do? (Those are my words). And once more you have golf intrinsically link to expensive and exclusive, oh and OLD.

 

Anyway, the courses were designed in large part by high end guys who made them championship quality (super hard). And in many of the communities you had to pay the annual club fee even if you didn't play. Eventually, as we are all aware of the housing market (and golf) took a hit, and so did a ton of golf courses that were built that really had no other function than to serve as eye candy for fancy real estate propositions. So now what are you left you? A bunch of expensive and difficult courses that no one is playing.

 

The question is, is no one playing these because they don't like golf? Or is no one playing them because there was no demand for them in the first place. How many of these shuttered golf courses across the country were built, not to meet current demand, but to anticipate future growth or to serve as a backyard decoration or to artificially boost property values because the home is "on a golf course"

[JohnBarry]

We have a local course that is very short, it has 1 par 5 a side and 2 par 4s a side and the rest of the holes are par 3s of varying distances and set ups. You can get around this course in less than 2 and 1/2 hours and they are usually very full. If their conditions were better, this course would be jamming. it has a nice range, decent club house, a nice layout with good elevation changes (for Virginia Beach) and could really be the future of golf if everyone would see it for what it is.

[revkev]

We have a local course that is very short, it has 1 par 5 a side and 2 par 4s a side and the rest of the holes are par 3s of varying distances and set ups. You can get around this course in less than 2 and 1/2 hours and they are usually very full. If their conditions were better, this course would be jamming. it has a nice range, decent club house, a nice layout with good elevation changes (for Virginia Beach) and could really be the future of golf if everyone would see it for what it is.

 

 

Totally, totally agree - make it under 3 hours, affordable and most importantly fun and people will come in a heartbeat.  Fun is the operative word I don't know how much fun taking 110 shots for 4 1/2 hours in the blazing heat is fun for most people and that's the reality of golf.

[BK in TEXAS]

Totally, totally agree - make it under 3 hours, affordable and most importantly fun and people will come in a heartbeat.  Fun is the operative word I don't know how much fun taking 110 shots for 4 1/2 hours in the blazing heat is fun for most people and that's the reality of golf.

Good call Kev.....that fits my wife to a T.   We have a short 9 hole course near us that is her favorite because A) we can get around in an hour in a half.....walking...and B ) she pars more holes (more pars more fun). 

 

I personally don't mind the 4 hour round on a nice course, but my wife just doesn't like to be out there that long.....long story short...that's usually where we go when we golf together.

[silver & black]

This 1000x.

 

I don't buy that golf is imploding, I just feel that it is normalizing after an obscene growth cycle.  That said, there are problems with the game, and some of them are cultural.

 

Consider that many of the younger generation will think nothing of playing a video game for 5 hours but will balk at golfing for 5 hours. Why?

 

How about the cost? many spend upwards of $400 a month on video games, and over 1000 per year on equipment, but balk at the cost of golf. Why?

 

Many golf courses have resorted to raising already inflated food and beverage costs, and then lament that players no longer hang out and socialize like they used to...

 

Many pro shops have cut back to stocking little more than balls, trinkets and a small clothing selection because they cannot compete with online pricing.

 

Many courses no longer employ full time teaching pros, because not enough players used them.

 

Fitters? Nope.

 

Look at t places like Top Golf.  It's a bar, that doubles as a driving range with bowling alley like games.  They are booming, and they aren't cheap (45 / hour)

 

At the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves why our excuses might be flawed. Asking around the teens in my children's circles I find that the answers lie in things we rarely even bring up...

 

Many of them enjoy playing, but they live in such a hyper exposed world that they are acutely afraid of embarrassing themselves in front of others.  They don't want to dress like old farts (their words). They want to be able to enjoy a little music while they play, but that is deemed rude.  There were alot of other reasons, but those were the most common, and sensible.

 

Dress codes are fine, but most of the under 40 crowd has no interest in playing a game that requires them to play in business casual attire. Relax the idea that silence is golden (let's be honest, what other sport is played in silence). As for the embarrassment issue, yeah, grow the heck up is a good start, but hey this is the same reason I cannot get my wife out to play much.  She thinks she is terrible and won't go out unless she thinks the course will be empty.

 

So yeah, the slow play, cost, boring excuses might play, but I really think huge parts of the problems stem from golf's country club culture roots and image.  We are talking about 2 generations that live in blue jeans and t-shirts.  They don't do anything in silence.  They live loud and in public. Until the clubs embrace that, you simply aren't going to appeal to a broader marketplace.

I agree. Relax the atmosphere a little, let them play in tee shirts as long as they are "nice". Let them play in jeans (I wasn't allowed on a course earlier this year because I had a pair of "nice" jeans on). The music might be a bit much but, I understand "kids" wanting it. The only other sport that is as stuffy as golf about noise (talking) is tennis. To be honest, someone talking doesn't bother me in the least. If you can't hit your shot because someone is talking, you have other issues...lol.

 

Alcohol: It's a golf course, not a bar! If you charge bar prices for beer, people are going to bring their own, even though it is strictly forbidden.... at least in Ohio. Charge state minimum and people will just buy their beer at the course, and not sneak in coolers. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

All in all, I think the stuffy, elitist attitude that encompasses golf is a leading factor why the younger crowd  stays away. Yea, sometimes they annoy me too...lol. But, they are the future and they are coming to take our place, full steam ahead, like it or not. Time for golf to adapt.

[markb]

in some ways we're fine, in others we're not.   The Tour has full corporate sponsorship and just renewed tournament deals.  Purses may not be rising, but they're not falling either.  There's more golf on TV than ever.

 

I agree that we overbuilt in the first decade of the century and many of these courses were "signature" venues at the high end.  In my state, that was definitely the case -- but those aren't the courses that are closing here.   The courses that are in trouble here are the state owned, county owned, city owned courses where the tax payers won't subsidize operations.   The luxury venues (which are mostly up by Park City) are still going strong.

 

I play at the same city owned muni that I've played at since the 1970's.   It has never been more empty.   I love it, because I can play whenever I want.  But when my muni becomes one of those on the chopping block, I won't like it so much.

[revkev]

We're fine.

 

Same cycle that every industry goes through.

 

None are exempt-

 

Growth is always followed by maturation,  saturation, which in turns leads to contraction.

 

There are too many golf courses.

 

Period.

 

Actually, 400,000 is not enough.

 

We still got too many idiots in the game.

 

Have a nice week,

 

My Best,

Richard

 

 

Interesting comment that I wanted to reflect upon for a bit.  I do think that in some ways this is the post Tiger effect.  Lots of people tried the game because of him, some stuck, many did not but lots of new golfers entered the fray.

 

That and a booming economy causes some to make poor business decisions and jump all in.  The drop in economy plus Tiger's well documented issues (Say it ain't so Joe, the Mighty Casey has struck out) have slowed growth and even lead to decline.  The ones who jumped in head first have sunk.

 

I look at MGS and see Bridgestone jumping into the equipment line and others introducing new product all the time and I think, "Okay so sales are off but that doesn't mean businesses aren't making a profit somewhere."  Clearly there is money to be made in the golf industry and we fanatics are supporting it enough.

 

Having written that I still believe it is important for golf to figure out how it can penetrate the youth/young adult market a bit more to insure its future. 

[markb]

I hate to reference other blogs, so I'll just repost some stats that another big name blogger posted today from public National Golf Foundation data:

• The NGF estimates there are 25 million golfers in the US, down from 30 million in 2000.
• Some 40 percent of that total are considered occasional golfers, who play more than once per year. In 2000, there were about 9.1 million occasional golfers. In 2012, that number grew to 11.6 million golfers.
• Next are the core golfers, who play more than eight times per year. There were about 19.7 million in 2000, but only 13.7 million in 2012.
• Finally there are the avid golfers, who play more than 25 times per year. In 2000, there were 10.2 million, but that number dropped to 6.4 million in 2012.

Most importantly, the final two categories account for 94% of monies spent on golf.   So when you lose your established base, the companies who sell golf stuff REALLY feel it exponentially.  The blogger states that he doesn't know all the reasons why the core is leaving, but he notes that two themes keep popping up whenever golfers are asked what the problem is:  Golf is too slow and no fun.

 

Which makes me ask what has really changed to make Golf "too slow and no fun":, the Game or the Golfer?  

 

I've been playing for 40 years.  Golf is actually more fun and faster today than it was in the 70's, but we have different expectations today and different demands on our time.  I caddied in my youth and it took all day to loop twice, from dawn to dusk.  We hauled huge leather bags full of Patty Berg blades and wooden woods and for country club ladies who couldn't hit a ball more than 50 yards on their best days.  The only "fun" being had was due to the drinks they ingested and the gossip they exchanged.   They had all day and it didn't matter where they were.

 

Even if golf has gotten faster and is not as hand-stingingly painful to play, no question it is perceived to be too slow and no fun.   We, the perceivers have changed, not the game. 

 

Maybe we need to drink more, play more inventive gambling games with pard's, watch our handicaps less, call out rules infractions less, and stop tapping our watches and shouting "While we're young!" at the group in front of us.   Maybe we need to stop taking a 4g-buffering-lag-hit-refresh mentality to a 19th century game of grass and sand and wind and trees.

 

As Pogo famously said, "I have met the enemy and he is us."

[Jondagcl]

That was a great post Mark and a thoughtful perspective. I didn't play golf in the 70s, but since I started playing in the 90s I've definitely found it to get more enjoyable over time. (Even out here SoCal where we have no shortage of golfers and pretty long rounds)

 

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but golf is perceived to be at the adapt or die crossroads. Lots of great suggestions given here that would help it along the adapt path that's for sure. Perhaps this is the grassroots effort that we've been waiting for?

[sp0rtsfan86]

Along similar lines, a few years back the Wall Street Journal (feel free to google that and find it if the article sounds interesting) ran an article something along the lines of - the bust of the housing market associated with golf course developments. I'll do my best to paraphrase an article I haven't read in a long time.

 

To attract luxury home buyers, golf coursers were set up alongside new home developments. Fancy homes built, championship golf course in your backyard. With the rationale I'm sure being, "what else do wealthy retired folks like to do besides golf? Isn't that what they all do? (Those are my words). And once more you have golf intrinsically link to expensive and exclusive, oh and OLD.

 

Anyway, the courses were designed in large part by high end guys who made them championship quality (super hard). And in many of the communities you had to pay the annual club fee even if you didn't play. Eventually, as we are all aware of the housing market (and golf) took a hit, and so did a ton of golf courses that were built that really had no other function than to serve as eye candy for fancy real estate propositions. So now what are you left you? A bunch of expensive and difficult courses that no one is playing.

 

The question is, is no one playing these because they don't like golf? Or is no one playing them because there was no demand for them in the first place. How many of these shuttered golf courses across the country were built, not to meet current demand, but to anticipate future growth or to serve as a backyard decoration or to artificially boost property values because the home is "on a golf course"

Best example of this is Coyote Springs course in NV. Supposed to be the PGA village and instead is a track with nothing else out there. you an actually see the hookups for the houses that were never built.

[sp0rtsfan86]

Two things happened really: digital age and work. As a 25 year old I have several friends that "play" golf. I have very few that play a lot of golf, for a variety of reasons. Some have clubs that belong in museums, some just never got into it more than something to do while drinking and three it's way too expensive especially after getting out of college. How a course expects college kids to foot 40 bucks a week on less than 30k with students loans is beyond me. It's much easier to play tiger woods spending 60 bucks every year to play as a golfer shooting 13 under. 

 

There is hope though, I liked the idea of the play 9 initiative, but feel like that's not enough. Who has time for a 3 hour 9 hole round on a good course... that goes to my point about rangers and lack of poking people to move faster. I'd like to see more courses partner with colleges for 

 

In my undergrad, our local muni ran a 2 dollar to walk rate after a certain time that changed with whoever was behind the counter. I don't want to tell you how many kids took advantage of that once or twice, but by the end of the semester, it was usually my usual threesome who were the only ones who used it. It was amazing to watch for the 4 years I was there because everyone was so amped up for the deal and no one used it after midterms. Again students can gather and play video games for hours, but expect them to take clubs out and it's a whole different story. I'd like to get more friends to play but no one seems interested in really picking up the game.

 

Bah humbug.

[BIG STU]

Well the Grand Strand Course Owners released some figgures this week in the local paper. They claimed spring revenues were down 3% or so but I dont see it but what do I know?

The big announcement was that the owner of TPC Myrtle Beach had agreed to manage the city owned course at the former airbase. It had became a goat ranch over the last few years and the city was loosing money on it year after year. Wonder why? What was funny was that it was the first POS that a tourist golfer saw when they flew into MYR. The owner of TPC has some great ideas on what he wants to accomplish and I am all for it. I hope he succeedes. I think he sees golf growing in this area or he would not have made the investment to take it over. He does have a good positive game plan

[JohnBarry]

Scary how cut throat Myrtle Beach golf is for the out of town dollars.

 

That's awesome about airbase course, would be nice if they could improve the conditions.

[Jondagcl]

Best example of this is Coyote Springs course in NV. Supposed to be the PGA village and instead is a track with nothing else out there. you an actually see the hookups for the houses that were never built.

I Google mapped the course and visited its site. I have no clue where that is, is it really just out there in the middle of nothing? Based on the rates they charge it suggests that things are doing ok? 3 digit greens fees! Yikes. I hope it's getting action because to pump as much water on to that course as it needs to stay looking like that...they have about as much water as we do out here. You just hope it's being put to good use.

[silver & black]

 

Maybe we need to drink more, play more inventive gambling games with pard's, watch our handicaps less, call out rules infractions less, and stop tapping our watches and shouting "While we're young!" at the group in front of us.   Maybe we need to stop taking a 4g-buffering-lag-hit-refresh mentality to a 19th century game of grass and sand and wind and trees.

 

As Pogo famously said, "I have met the enemy and he is us."

That paragraph hits home with me.

 

My brother and I play at least once a week together. We go to enjoy the day and each other's company. When we go, it is planned as "a day". We have a few beers, enjoy the nice day and the nice scenery. Why all the hurry to get it over with as fast as possible?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of agonizingly slow play but, at the same time, I see no reason why golf should be a race to see how fast you can get through the course. 5 hours IS a long time to carve out of your day but, it does seem to be the norm at almost any course I play.

 

If the course was filled with single digit and scratch players, I'm sure it would significantly speed up pace of play. The reality is that most players aren't that good.... and never will be, myself included. I can get around a golf course without any problem. My brother is a fairly new golfer. He can't play well enough to play faster. Most players are in his category. We take about 4.5 hrs. to play a round. When I play with a buddy of mine that is equal to, or a little better than me, we play a round in under 4 hrs....... sometimes.

 

Well, I'm rambling, so, I'll just say............ it's not a race.... enjoy the day!

[fozcycle]

Every Saturday, we shotgun about 40 golfers. We seem to always get though in 4 - 4 1/2 hours. Our golfers are avid golfers, but some are seniors and it takes them longer to play.....but 4 1/2 is the max time to finish.