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Hot News! MGS Most Wanted Mallet Discontinued?!

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Ok that's not helped much! So will less deep grooves mean it's not as effective - or even better? MGS staff I think we need a retest ASAP using the same scoring as for the most wanted.

 

I assume the 30 bucks is as a result of them thinking that ketsch should be even better than it was? Will we now see the price go up......


Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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Well at least we have 'some' clarity.  Wonder how they determine how much is too deep and how much is just standard variance.

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In seventh grade I moved to a new town and made a friend who turned out to be a rotten apple. I didn't really know it at the time, but once at my house he randomly offered to give me money. I thought it was strange and refused. Turned out he had stolen my brother's gameboy, which we luckily got back.

 

Why does this feel like Ping is doing something similar?

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Here's my interpretation of the recent press release.  I am not a Ping staffer or an engineer.   I'm a marketing guy who has played Ping Clubs for 35 years and who now owns a Gen 1 Ketsch.

 

First, I absolutely agree that the Ketsch's grooves are very deep and its intermittent ridges between them are very sharp.  Whether this is a good thing or bad thing, or an expensive thing or a hard to mill properly thing, I dunno.   What I do know is that the Ketsch's grooves were milled exactly to the depths Ping intended when they dialed in the settings on their computer controlled milling machines.   So those grooves' depths aren't so much "unintended" as they may be potentially "ineffective" at delivering Ping's intended True-Roll performance.  Allow me to explain.

 

Let's say their engineering studies tell them that having grooves of a certain precise depth in the center is ideal and having those grooves get ever so marginally shallower when radiating out from the center helps to mitigate "roll-out" variance in the distance of struck putts.  If this engineering claim has validity, then grooves that are way too deep in the center and too deep even as they supposedly shallow out towards the margins, effectively negates the premise of "variable" depth grooves.   You don't have effective varying depths, you just have grooves that are always over-deep even as they vary. 

 

Think of it this way.  You want to build a swimming pool with a shallow end for the kiddies and a deep end for the adults.   It should be 12 ft under the diving board gradually shallowing to 3 ft, right?   But the contractor builds you a pool that is 24 ft under the high dive and 15 ft in the "shallow" end.   Your "shallow" end is worthless for the purposes you're trying to achieve.

 

What does this make the Ketsch 1?   I dunno.  My personal testing (which can be found in another thread in this fourm) indicated that the Ketsch's sharp and deep grooves really bit into a urethane ball and caused it to roll in tight adhesion to the turf,   This made it a phenomenal lag putter and very good on downhill sliders because it had "traction".   But it also caused Ketsch putts to come up "short" if not firmly struck.   I also noticed that Ketsch putts got more squirrely when they lost speed, allowing them to break more or wobble more on critical five footers that had only enough speed to just reach the hole.

 

My solution to the weaknesses was to pop putts more firmly a foot or two past the hole in order to keep them from bleeding out, while at the same time I took advantage of the Ketsch's strengths on downhill sliders.  How any of this related to the Ketsch's purported mitigation of distance variation through TR technology, I dunno.   I never had any complaints about the Ketsch's dispersion variance.  But I can potentially see how really sharp really deep grooves might have contributed to this "super-traction" effect that I thought I saw.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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So, if the grooves are not functioning as originally intended because they are too deep, then by shallowing out the grooves, Ping would achieve what it was originally trying to do.  Maybe that will eliminate the need for a more firm stroke?  If that's the case, then everyone will be playing Ketsch up.   :)


Aging sucks...  Are you tough enough to get old?

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So, if the grooves are not functioning as originally intended because they are too deep, then by shallowing out the grooves, Ping would achieve what it was originally trying to do.  Maybe that will eliminate the need for a more firm stroke?  If that's the case, then everyone will be playing Ketsch up.   :)

 

That may be true.  I'll have to try the shallower-grooved Ketsch II and see if it displays the same traits.  

 

To tell you the truth, I kinda like the fact that the Ketsch I comes up short on putts now that I'm used to it.  I don't fear downhill runaways much any more and I can really bang uphill putts to keep the line true.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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For those that own the Ketsch, don't forget to send in for your $30 gift they're offering for owners of it. They're also starting production again


In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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The Rest of the Story -  

 

The Ping Ketsch II is now out and available.   It is exactly like the Ketsch I, so I shouldn't even be calling it the Ketsch II.   The only differences are the shallower and thinner face grooves and some white fill paint on the bottom on the arc lines which used to be black.

 

I don't have pictures of the new face that I can post and curiously Ping is still showing the old face on its website.   Evidently they believe its still the same club and little clarification is necessary.  If so, why did they "discontinue" production and offer a $30 rebate?  Whatever, the tempest in the teapot has now cooled.

 

Another blog has a few pics up and you can see definite differences in the width and depth of the grooves in normal close-ups.  The old Ketsch didn't really have flat spots between its grooves.   It had knife-blade ridges.   The new Ketsch has flat mesas.  

 

A few initial reports state that it has a slightly firmer feel.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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While on vacation, i saw the Ketsch at Dick's for 199.99, then at a pro golf discount for 199.97........both in Hilton head. (wow what a discount).


Driver: Cobra King F8 w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft Fairways:  Cobra King F8 3W(14.5*) & 5W(18.5*) w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft Hybrids: Tour Edge CBX 119 4H(22*)  with Project X Evenflo regular shaft Irons: Wilson Staff D7 5 - PW w/Recoil 460 regular shafts Wedges: Cobra King F8 GW(50*) SW(54*) LW(58*) Putter: 33" Tommy Armour Impact No. 3 mallet putter Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat Blue).

 

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while I was in the golf shop yesterday, I checked out the new grooves on the Ketsch 2. Sure enough, they were much shallower and thinner than those on my Ketsch I. Then I picked up another Ketsch I  that they had for sale in the shop. Its grooves were also noticeably shallower than my early model Ketsch, although they were deeper than the model 2.

 

WTF? How did I get one that was so different? Leads me to think that QC on those model I's was really quite bad. That's modern American manufacturing for you, I guess.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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I'm still waiting for my putter to arrive. Ordered 2 weeks ago and was told will take 2 months cos it had to go to Japan and then here.

I'm hoping they can expedite it.


Irons: Miura PP9003 KBS Tour 90 R 5-P

Wedges: Miura New Wedge Series 51 Deg, Cobra Tour Trusty 56 Deg

Driver: Bridgestone JGR 10.5 with Tour AD J16-11W Reg stock JDM

3 Wood: Bridgestone JGR 3W with Tour AD J16-11W Stiff Reg stock JDM

Hybrid: Bridgestone JGR 4H with Tour AD J16-11W Reg stock JDM

Putter: Ping Sigma G Kinloch C 

Right handed, lives in Singapore

Playing in the mid 90s and trying my best to break 90 consistently.

 

 

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while I was in the golf shop yesterday, I checked out the new grooves on the Ketsch 2. Sure enough, they were much shallower and thinner than those on my Ketsch I. Then I picked up another Ketsch I  that they had for sale in the shop. Its grooves were also noticeably shallower than my early model Ketsch, although they were deeper than the model 2.

 

WTF? How did I get one that was so different? Leads me to think that QC on those model I's was really quite bad. That's modern American manufacturing for you, I guess.

That is surprising. When we visited PING, we saw the heads being milled to very tight tolerances. Deep or shallow, having any variation seems very un-PING-like.

 

I still have not picked up a new groove model, but when I get my hands on one I'll post comparison photos.

 

FWIW, I still enjoying putting with the old groove one.


Volvo Intorqueo

 

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @golfspy_dave

 

If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool...

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I think I'll go back in and try to get photos.   But I'm not a popular guy there and I dunno if they'll let me snap them.    The Model 2 looks like it should.   The other Model I looked okay and had grooves very much like a TR Nome and TR Senita they also had in the shop, about middle of the road.   Mine has these little knife blade ridges, as I have commented before.  So deep I have to clean grass and sand out of them.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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I was able to pick up a left-handed one from an eBay auction yesterday for $125. I'm not sure if it's an original model or a new one but either way I've wanted to try one since it ranked at the top of the MGS list. I would much rather spend my money at a local shop but it seems that most of the time eBay is my only way to try things out being left handed. It also doesn't help that I live in the middle of nowhere.


Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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Would any kind soul advise if the updated Ketsche outperforms the original Ketsche?

Am tempted to get one but not sure if I should get the original or the updated version with "improved" grooves... help!  :wacko:

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I would love to let this Ketsch thread die because the story behind my personal beloved putter and the MGS MWM winner of 2014 has now passed from comedy to slapstick farce.   I'm now hearing that Ketsch "2" is dead and is no longer being sold or shipped from Ping and that Ketsch "3" will arrive in spring.   What is wrong with Ketsch "2"?  I don't know.   It was all China made, maybe that bothered Ping.   It looked fine to me from the exemplars I saw in stores.   But I also heard that guys who ordered from Ping simply never got theirs.  And I know of NO ONE who collected the supposed $30 rebate on the Ketsch 1.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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How can you tell whether it's a 1 or 2?

 

My Dicks has one with a $200 price tag on it......has been there for several months with no discount on it.

 

I have putted with it and like it but will not pay $200.


Driver: Cobra King F8 w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft Fairways:  Cobra King F8 3W(14.5*) & 5W(18.5*) w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft Hybrids: Tour Edge CBX 119 4H(22*)  with Project X Evenflo regular shaft Irons: Wilson Staff D7 5 - PW w/Recoil 460 regular shafts Wedges: Cobra King F8 GW(50*) SW(54*) LW(58*) Putter: 33" Tommy Armour Impact No. 3 mallet putter Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat Blue).

 

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Come on MGS, we cannot have a best putter that's not available...... So what are ping doing, send out the spy's.

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Rest in peace long sticks - I'll remember you

 

TM Burner Superfast 2.0 TP Regular

TM RBZ Stage 2 Fairway 14.5 stiff

Adams Blue Hybrid No. 3 stiff

Adams Super xtdHybrid 21.5 Stiff

 

Ping G30 4 and 5 Iron - Regular CFS Shaft

Ping i25 6 - PW Regular CFS Shaft

TM Y Groove Gap Wedge

Cleveland CG10 Sand Wedge

 

PingTR Piper Putter, adjustable shaft, SuperStroke Fatso

 

Titleist StaDry Cart Bag

 

Motocaddy S3 Pro Trolley

 

Foot Joy City, Adidas Boost Boa and Adidas Superstar shoes

 

Pro V1x in the summer, Titleist Velocity in the winter.

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How can you tell whether it's a 1 or 2?

 

My Dicks has one with a $200 price tag on it......has been there for several months with no discount on it.

 

I have putted with it and like it but will not pay $200.

 

The 1 can be distinguished from the 2 by the grooves, of course, but unless you see them both together or are familiar with the 1, you won't be able to tell.  The 2 has white paint fill on the bottom two arc slots, the 1 has black paint fill.   The only good photos of the 2 that I've ever seen on line are at G***WRX in the thread on "New Ketsch Availability", page 2, http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1073273-new-ketsch-availabilty/page__hl__%20ping%20%20ketsch.

 

Also the 2 is made and assembled in China.   None of that reputedly wonderful "Phoenix CNC milling" that betrayed them with the first version.


bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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