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I know that I might take some flack over what I'm going to write here but that's okay flack away.

 

My golfing life experience has convinced me that putting is an entirely different animal from the full swing.  While the full swing requires a certain amount of physical strength, putting requires much less and therefore the technique for good putting varies dramatically from golfer to golfer.  Further there are really three aspects to putting, reading the line, gauging the speed and starting the ball along the proper line at the proper weight.  Miss on any one of those three elements and you are likely to miss the putt or on longer putts you are likely to leave yourself a very missable distance for the next putt.

 

I can't help with the readings part other than to say that I have a ritual that I follow all the time that includes stepping off the distance - I follow it very quickly and without delay of game but I follow it.

 

In regards to getting the ball started on line and striking it solidly so that it holds its line I've found that if my ball position gets off in any way I run into problems.  It normally happens subtly and most often its because I get my body too far from the ball rather than having my head over it.  Over the past couple of months I've been very inconsistent with all aspects of my putting except perhaps reading greens - hard to say how good my reads are because if you aren't getting the ball on the line solidly at the right pace you'll never know if you read it rightly.

 

I went to the practice green today during lunch resolved to get closer to the ball.  (Yesterday was a debacle on the greens to the point that it turned what could have been a nice round, something in the mid-upper 70's into the low 80's and that even included a couple of give me's that I could have missed by hey, my playing partners gave them, so I took them.) 

 

It felt uncomfortable as all get up at first which given how I've been putting was probably good.  It took about five minutes to find the right position for the ball in my stance but once I got it putts started to go in from all over the place.  I very easily rolled in 4 in a row on both sides of the hole, one side a slight right to left the other a slight left to right.  I then picked out random holes on the putting green and rolled every ball the right speed, every ball, up hill, down hill, side hill, down grain, into the green, it didn't matter.  I closed by holing back to back 25 footers on two different holes, both balls dying at the cup.

 

I'm very hopeful that I've found it.  Bottom line for putting is that I think ball position is huge, beyond huge even.  Get the head over the ball and you have a chance.

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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You are totally correct about getting your head over the ball. I will add one for me. Even though I am right handed I am left eye dominate I feel the most important thing for me is getting the left eye over the ball. I have always done one thing that I have been criticized for by people including my dear old Dad. If I am over the ball and I feel I am not in alignment I do not back off and reset I reset right then and there and check and pull the trigger. I also putt by instinct had never thought about it much untill my late friend told me that one day and after meeting Rover Rick on here and reading his postings it has reinforced my friend's statement. It to me is how you feel confortable doing it. Another friend whome I played the minis some with who was a good player told me that in every aspect of the game that "ball position is everything" and I have found him to be correct. I for the life of me could not figgure why anyone would rip you on your post. In this game there is absolutely no set in stone correct way to hit a ball or putt. IMHO I always say " what ever makes you happy" Good Luck sounds like you have found something that works for YOU

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW Hogan Starburst 50* --- SW Cleveland 588 56*--- LW Cleveland 588 60*--- Putter -- Yep it is back Rusty Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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You are totally correct about getting your head over the ball. I will add one for me. Even though I am right handed I am left eye dominate I feel the most important thing for me is getting the left eye over the ball. I have always done one thing that I have been criticized for by people including my dear old Dad. If I am over the ball and I feel I am not in alignment I do not back off and reset I reset right then and there and check and pull the trigger. I also putt by instinct had never thought about it much untill my late friend told me that one day and after meeting Rover Rick on here and reading his postings it has reinforced my friend's statement. It to me is how you feel confortable doing it. Another friend whome I played the minis some with who was a good player told me that in every aspect of the game that "ball position is everything" and I have found him to be correct. I for the life of me could not figgure why anyone would rip you on your post. In this game there is absolutely no set in stone correct way to hit a ball or putt. IMHO I always say " what ever makes you happy" Good Luck sounds like you have found something that works for YOU

Because there are those who want to be technically correct with the putter. Pre tiger there were a gazillion putting styles, tiger era not so many, now it's heading back towards a million at least. :)

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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This is not to give RK flack about his opinions, what he writes about is what works for HIM. BIG STU probably has similar thoughts about what works for HIM.

 

Putting is very individualized, what works for one person is not likely to work for another.

The bellow information is based on things I have learned from my instructor Bruce Rearick (bargolf, Burnt Edges Consulting)

~ He has a section at puttertalk.com called "Bruce's Corner" and MGS has done a review on his teaching

--> MGS Blog ::  http://www.mygolfspy.com/bruce-rearick-putter-fitting

--> PutterTalk Link :: http://puttertalk.com/community/index.php?board=125.0

 

Some keys to finding YOUR best method:

NOTE :: I am not yelling in typing in all caps, I am doing to to signify the importance of the line that's all caps.

 

~ Find the position in which you visually best see the intended line of play over the ball.

>> This could mean eyes are outside the line, on the line, slightly inside the line, or drastically inside the line.

--> NO POSITION OF THE HEAD / EYES ARE BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Measure the length of your wrist to the ball from the position you best see the intended line

>> This will be the length of the putter you need to play, adjust the lie angle so the putter sits flat on a level lie to the length and posture.

--> NO LENGTH / LIE FOR THE PUTTER IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Your posture will determine the amount of arc your stroke has, you DO NOT get to pick.

>> Using a SBST literal stroke with the posture of setting up to the ball like a 7iron is going to be a manipulated stroke and thus streaky / non-consistent.

--> NO METHOD IN MAKING A PUTTING STROKE IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Find a source of motion that works for you

>> Shoulders are spine, shoulders vertically, left arm, right arm, arms independent.

--> NO SOURCE OF MOTION IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Find the directional bias of your stroke path (left, right, none)

>> Down the line to inside (Left), Inside to down the line (right), none would be in-between

--> NO DIRECTIONAL BIAS IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

After those things it gets more detailed in fitting a putter for a player but that's the basic concept. I'm not here to give instruction on how to go through the above processes of finding out what work for YOU.

 

 

Hope that helps someone get on the correct path to putting better, If you are struggling that badly with putting then i would recommend contacting Bruce via referral for his online consulting program.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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There was a reference recently to the following you tube video.....David Ledbetter's Short Game.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KYH99MuaMU

 

So I watched it.....looks like early 1990's from the golf cap & shirt style......the putting lesson was spot on with what Rev said above......"reading the line, gauging the speed and starting the ball along the proper line at the proper weight"

 

Worth the time to view it.

Driver: PXG 0211 w/Evenflo Riptide CB Regular shaft

Fairways:  PXG 0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: Ben Hogan VKTR 3 Hybrid(18*)w/Recoil ES regular shaft

Irons: Ben Hogan Ptx 5-PW w/Recoil 660 Regular graphite shafts; soon to be Titleist T300

Wedges: Ben Hogan Tkt-15 (49*/53*/57*) w/Recoil 660 Regular shafts 

Putter: 33”  Evnroll ER2 w/Evnroll Gravity Grip 

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black). 

Ball: Maxfli Tour CG & Titleist Pro V1x.

Using Shot Scope V3 and MG4000 Rangefinder

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I agree with all that is said here. It is definitely what suits each person, and certainly the dominant eye plays a big role in seeing the line. I have always been a decent putter and have putted ala Nicklaus since I am right eye dominant. However, last year I started setting up square after reading the putt and trusting the line. It took awhile to adjust; everything went right to start, but I kept it up and the change has resulted in making more putts. Better speed control. I think my right hand was too influential with the old style resulting in poor speed control especially on longer putts. I now use a shoulder rock with a pendulum motion.

 

I putt better on fast greens, but typically play on slower greens (nature of the course!). If I can putt like Rev said for at least 30 minutes on an unfamiliar course with fast greens, I usually do better than my home course! The harder I have to hit the ball, the more my right hand takes over. Trying to work on that (along with a multitude of other things!)

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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This is not to give RK flack about his opinions, what he writes about is what works for HIM. BIG STU probably has similar thoughts about what works for HIM.

 

Putting is very individualized, what works for one person is not likely to work for another.

The bellow information is based on things I have learned from my instructor Bruce Rearick (bargolf, Burnt Edges Consulting)

~ He has a section at puttertalk.com called "Bruce's Corner" and MGS has done a review on his teaching

--> MGS Blog ::  http://www.mygolfspy.com/bruce-rearick-putter-fitting

--> PutterTalk Link :: http://puttertalk.com/community/index.php?board=125.0

 

Some keys to finding YOUR best method:

NOTE :: I am not yelling in typing in all caps, I am doing to to signify the importance of the line that's all caps.

 

~ Find the position in which you visually best see the intended line of play over the ball.

>> This could mean eyes are outside the line, on the line, slightly inside the line, or drastically inside the line.

--> NO POSITION OF THE HEAD / EYES ARE BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Measure the length of your wrist to the ball from the position you best see the intended line

>> This will be the length of the putter you need to play, adjust the lie angle so the putter sits flat on a level lie to the length and posture.

--> NO LENGTH / LIE FOR THE PUTTER IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Your posture will determine the amount of arc your stroke has, you DO NOT get to pick.

>> Using a SBST literal stroke with the posture of setting up to the ball like a 7iron is going to be a manipulated stroke and thus streaky / non-consistent.

--> NO METHOD IN MAKING A PUTTING STROKE IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Find a source of motion that works for you

>> Shoulders are spine, shoulders vertically, left arm, right arm, arms independent.

--> NO SOURCE OF MOTION IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

~ Find the directional bias of your stroke path (left, right, none)

>> Down the line to inside (Left), Inside to down the line (right), none would be in-between

--> NO DIRECTIONAL BIAS IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER, IT IS WHAT WORKS FOR YOU.

 

After those things it gets more detailed in fitting a putter for a player but that's the basic concept. I'm not here to give instruction on how to go through the above processes of finding out what work for YOU.

 

 

Hope that helps someone get on the correct path to putting better, If you are struggling that badly with putting then i would recommend contacting Bruce via referral for his online consulting program.

Very well said. On one example of the lie of the putter--- Iso Aoaki putted with the toe up Steve Stricker putts with the heel up both are excellant putters. Personally I dont worry about heel up or down. That is one of the problems people have today with golf in general they listen to to many "gurus' that say their way is the only and correct way to do it. I have stressed before that I am in no way shape or form a golf instructor. I do have people come to me from time to time and ask for help especially with putting. My main thought is to get confortable period because if you are not confortable over the ball the tension will transfer to your hands and everyone knows what happens then. I dont worry about how far back I take the putter or the direction. I just get my line and focus on my target and let my mind and eyes tell my arms how hard to hit it that is the basis of instinct putting. I use the arc method of putting I have been told in the past that I had a "flaw" in my stroke but that is my natural stroke. I found out later that it is one of the "methods" that is taught now. The best putting tip I ever heard was from Annika she said to "stay down on the ball all the way through and listen for it to fall into the cup" darn good advice at least for me anyhow

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW Hogan Starburst 50* --- SW Cleveland 588 56*--- LW Cleveland 588 60*--- Putter -- Yep it is back Rusty Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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The reason I said that the lie angle should be flat is because like in an iron, the ball can start on the pull side (toe up) or push side (heel up) of the intended line. Now that's not to say that you can't adjust your aim for that tendency, I find it easier to have it flat on the ground and use the putter as my yard stick to get into a consistent posture.

 

A lot of players do tend to "peak" early looking for the ball roll and will steer the putter head in the process just before impact to the cup instead of focusing on the initial line.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I was listening to an interview with Marius this morning on his putting philosophies.  Very interesting, but seems too over the top like Dave Pelz. I guess once you buy in, it will seem clearer.

 

Has anyone attended his clinics?

Driver: PXG 0211 w/Evenflo Riptide CB Regular shaft

Fairways:  PXG 0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: Ben Hogan VKTR 3 Hybrid(18*)w/Recoil ES regular shaft

Irons: Ben Hogan Ptx 5-PW w/Recoil 660 Regular graphite shafts; soon to be Titleist T300

Wedges: Ben Hogan Tkt-15 (49*/53*/57*) w/Recoil 660 Regular shafts 

Putter: 33”  Evnroll ER2 w/Evnroll Gravity Grip 

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black). 

Ball: Maxfli Tour CG & Titleist Pro V1x.

Using Shot Scope V3 and MG4000 Rangefinder

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This is not to sound like a broken record or say that any one persons thoughts on putting are wrong.

~ Leadbetter and Pelz have there thoughts on what works best most likely because it is the method that they used when they played.

 

Examples of successful putters with very different strokes:

Tiger Woods -- Right arm dominant, inside to down the line, full release

Rory McIlroy -- Left arm dominant, down the line to inside, blocked release

Stan Utley -- Arms independent of the body

Sergio Garcia -- Shoulders around the spine (he is a better putter then the media gives him credit for)

Steve Striker -- Shoulders rock vertically (I'm not 100% sure on that, just looking that way when I saw it on video last)

 

 

Lee Trevino once said "I have never spent a minute looking for a perfect method. I spent all my time perfecting my own."

~ That holds true for the full swing as well a lot of times once you get to a point that the swing is predictable / repeatable.

 

 

I really can't say much more then what I already have. If you fight your tendencies in putting you will never become a great putter.

Callaway Epic Max 12.0 (-1/N) @ 44.50" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-7 Stiff

Callaway Epic Speed 18.0* @ 42.75" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ-8 Stiff

Callaway Mavrik Pro 23.0* @ 40.00" w/ Graphite Design Tour AD IZ 95 HYB Stiff

Sub-70 639 Combo (5-P) w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Stiff, Standard Length, Weak Lofts (27-47, 4* gaps)

Callaway MD5 Raw 51-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 55-13 X-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 59-11 S-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Callaway MD5 Raw 63-09 C-Grind w/ Nippon Modus 125 Wedge

Golf Swing & Putting -- Bruce Rearick (Burnt Edges Consulting)

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I was glad to see that this topic gained some legs.  JMiller even if you totally disagreed with me I would never mind reading your opinion but actually what you've offered makes my point - more so than the full swing putting is unique to each individual golfer.

 

No doubt there is a best and most efficient way for ME to get the ball online at the proper speed (reading greens is less individualized so I'll say there may well be stock ways to do it - I like to do it with my feet and then aroudn the hole and behind the ball with my eyes>).  I guarantee there are thousands of other ways to be efficient in getting the ball online at the proper speed one of which is the best way for YOU.

 

I have stumbled upon my best way again and it's startling the difference between how I'm putting the ball today versus this time last week.  Amazing really.  I was averaging 30 putts per round a year ago.  It's been 34 this year.  I took 36 putts last Tuesday and shot 82.  I took 30 putts yesterday and shot 75.  Both courses had similar slopes and course ratings.  Certainly the course that I played yesterday had the trickier greens.

 

Looking forward to tomorrow where I get to put my stroke under some pressure.

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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jmiller, you are so correct. You have to find your own way. As I reviewed the Ledbetter video, I started thinking about my own technique and how some of Ledbetter's basic principles could be applied.  Yesterday, while playing a round with my grandson, I thought about Ledbetter's basic techniques and how I could use them to my benefit.  Over the past year I have changed my grip, and allowed my natural swing to control my stroke. I use a face balanced putter that has a 365 gm headweight. Now that's somewhat heavier than most putters, but I like the heavier head so i don't have to hit the ball so hard....and on a quick green, it provides me more feedback.  My stroke is a slight arc with a straight follow through. It may sound crazy, but it works for me.

 

I believe that you must abide by the basics, within the confines of your natural stroke.

Driver: PXG 0211 w/Evenflo Riptide CB Regular shaft

Fairways:  PXG 0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: Ben Hogan VKTR 3 Hybrid(18*)w/Recoil ES regular shaft

Irons: Ben Hogan Ptx 5-PW w/Recoil 660 Regular graphite shafts; soon to be Titleist T300

Wedges: Ben Hogan Tkt-15 (49*/53*/57*) w/Recoil 660 Regular shafts 

Putter: 33”  Evnroll ER2 w/Evnroll Gravity Grip 

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black). 

Ball: Maxfli Tour CG & Titleist Pro V1x.

Using Shot Scope V3 and MG4000 Rangefinder

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