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mbkeller

This is why I hate OEM stuff

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I can't get the image to apply here, but there is the text from an email I just received:

 

Recently, Callaway has made a claim that they are the new #1 Driver on tour. They are trying to confuse the golfer. We have published the response below to set the record straight. Being the #1 Driver in Golf is something TaylorMade has earned and we hold that honor in high regard.

 

Dear Callaway,

 

Congratulations on your players' recent tour victories. We fully understand the excitement and sense of pride that comes from winning. In fact, two more tour professionals won this weekend with our drivers.

 

And, in the last 10 years, we've had 525 wins of our own. A full decade of domination. This is why we take exception with your claim of being the #1 Driver on Tour. Here's the truth.

 

TaylorMade is the #1 selling driver today and has been each year since 2004.

 

TaylorMade is #1 in worldwide tour wins today and has been over the last decade.

 

TaylorMade is the #1 played driver on tours worldwide today and has been over the last decade.

 

We hope this sets the record straight at Callaway and for anyone in golf who was confused.

 

Sincerely,

TaylorMade

 

It also had this link to look at the proof.

 

So what TM is saying is they bought more tour wins by paying more players to play their clubs than Callaway. So...does Callaway come back and say, "Our players have a greater winning percentage than TaylorMade"? It has nothing to do with the player...not a chance...it is ALL about the club. (I'm not saying Tiger or Phil with a persimmon would beat Kim or Furyk. There is a difference in club technology.)

 

A good marketer can make the worst numbers look positive. Look at Tom Hicks and the spin he spewed about the Rangers for so many years.

 

Why don't we focus on putting the best product possible on the market instead of worrying about whose thing if bigger? Good grief.....

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This humors me. I get quite a few emails from people on the inside of both these companies regarding their back and forth bantering.

 

My question to you guys I guess is "how does this come across to you the consumer when you read this?"

 

- Does it make you think less of Taylormade?

- Does it make you think Taylormade is right and Callaway is wrong with their statement?

- Do you think this is petty bantering and should not be seen by the consumers eyes?

- How would you handle this if you were in TM's position or Callaway's?

 

I will leave my opinion until later.

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This humors me. I get quite a few emails from people on the inside of both these companies regarding their back and forth bantering.

 

My question to you guys I guess is "how does this come across to you the consumer when you read this?"

 

- Does it make you think less of Taylormade?

- Does it make you think Taylormade is right and Callaway is wrong with their statement?

- Do you think this is petty bantering and should not be seen by the consumers eyes?

- How would you handle this if you were in TM's position or Callaway's?

 

I will leave my opinion until later.

 

Between this, last year's (or was it the year before) go around (also with Callaway), the same nonsense previously with Nickent; Yeah, In my mind it does diminish TaylorMade a bit. Petty is the word I would use. Shouldn't they be busy writing press releases for another handful new handful of drivers?

 

Two points though...

 

Anybody who buys a club because somebody else won with it on tour is probably an idiot (there are plenty of reasons why clubs end up in pro's bags, and most of them have very little to do with performance). How much difference do you think there really is between Callaway's driver and TaylorMade's?

 

2nd Point...Don't care about number of tour wins. Even if I did, I'd only care about PGA wins. So by that measure, this year anyway, Callaway is kicking TaylorMade's ass (at least as far as notable 2010 wins are concerned). Ernie, Phil, and Furyk all have the FT-Tour in their bag. How's Sergio doing with that TM? Point is, golfers win championships, not their clubs.

 

I'm not a Callaway fan boy, and I think TaylorMade (generally speaking) makes a damn good product. Clubs from both manufacturers are in my bag right now. That said, this is kindergarten crap, and you'd think self-proclaimed industry leaders would be above it.

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I'll answer point by point:

 

1 - It doesn't make me think any less of TaylorMade when they put stuff like this out. It's today's market and game. What I can't stand and hurts my opinion about TM is they feel the need for 3-5 new drivers and 2-3 new iron sets every year (I know...I may be exaggerating a bit. But it seems like these numbers are legit.). Are you really that insecure with your product? Do you think it is so shotty that you have to replace it that often? Are you purposely not putting technology into your product so that you can upgrade every 6 months and make it 'better than ever'?

 

2 - I have always believed all these numbers and claims are bought and/or manufactured. I also believe they are technically true. These is too much to lose for making false claims and everything to gain by making numbers represent something they may not should. Thanks to this site and some smaller golf companies out there, this belief has been confirmed.

 

3 - It is absolutely petty, but the unfortunate fact it golf isn't about golf any longer. It is about showing your playing partner how new and cool your stuff is and how his isn't good anymore (Golf Digest Obsolete List anybody? Sure there's stuff that doesn't hack it anymore, but really?). That's what drives all the companies to market, develop, and implement the strategies they have. Now...is this the fault of us or the OEMs? I don't know that answer, but figure we all hold responsibility. Should the customer see this? No...but this is the market strategy just about all the OEMs have adopted. Focusing on numbers rather than on the product itself.

 

4 - I'd let them make whatever claims they want to. If they are true, with or without fudging numbers, they are true. If they aren't, call them out. But if you call someone out and end up being wrong yourself....well...good luck.

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Anybody who buys a club because somebody else won with it on tour is probably an idiot (there are plenty of reasons why clubs end up in pro's bags, and most of them have very little to do with performance). How much difference do you think there really is between Callaway's driver and TaylorMade's?

 

2nd Point...Don't care about number of tour wins. Even if I did, I'd only care about PGA wins. So by that measure, this year anyway, Callaway is kicking TaylorMade's ass (at least as far as notable 2010 wins are concerned). Ernie, Phil, and Furyk all have the FT-Tour in their bag. How's Sergio doing with that TM? Point is, golfers win championships, not their clubs.

 

I'm not a Callaway fan boy, and I think TaylorMade (generally speaking) makes a damn good product. Clubs from both manufacturers are in my bag right now. That said, this is kindergarten crap, and you'd think self-proclaimed industry leaders would be above it.

Bingo. I don't have either in my bag. TM has never worked for me and Cally has in the past. They pretty much all make great products...if it fits your game. The problem is "hey this club is for everyone" when everyone knows it isn't.

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"This club is for everyone" is the message, intelligent golfers know this is just a marketing ploy, and some don't.

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I dislike Callaway, and this ain't helping their cause. I like Taylor Made, and their drivers are the best IMO, but it matters not that they are the #1 driver in golf. Callaway just got owned.

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I dislike Callaway, and this ain't helping their cause. I like Taylor Made, and their drivers are the best IMO, but it matters not that they are the #1 driver in golf. Callaway just got owned.

 

Owned? LOL

 

I do not have any TM or Callaway in my bag right now. Wins on the Nationwide tour or LPGA or Asian Tour are fodder for companies to tally up "wins". I have not like any of the TM offerings since the R510TP and while I do have the Callaway FT-3 Tour it has been replaced. The Bridgestone and Nike I have beat out all comers.

 

Basically I think Taylormade is used to having more tour wins than Callaway on the PGA Tour and they are grabbing their wins and in play number from other tours and trying to confuse the public.

 

Unfortunately with all of the restrictions by the USGA it seems truly new technology has disappeared and companies are relying on "marketing technology". LOL

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I got this email earlier today, too. Before I say anything, I will acknowledge that I don't like Callaway (their gear costs more than TM's, doesn't work for me, isn't visually appealing to me, generally speaking, and I don't like their players as much) and I am a fan of TM (last 2 drivers have been TM and I don't see that changing). Also, I have not seen the Callaway ad that the TM email refers to, despite trying to find it on the internet, so I am a bit in the dark as to the original claim. That said, here are my answers to the questions:

 

- Does it make you think less of Taylormade?

 

No. If TM pays to be the #1 driver on tour, by whatever measure, they should defend that claim. If they feel like someone else is stealing their line, then they should call them out. It should also be noted that this email went out to people on the TM mailing list (I believe/assume) so they're probably sending this to a pretty receptive audience.

 

- Does it make you think Taylormade is right and Callaway is wrong with their statement?

 

Yes.

 

- Do you think this is petty bantering and should not be seen by the consumers eyes?

 

It doesn't bother me one way or the other. I never saw a Callaway ad claiming to be #1, but this whole bit does make me think less of Callaway. TM has been claiming to be the #1 driver for a long time based on (I believe) the number of drivers in play. If Callaway wants to make the claim that they're #1 because they have more PGA Tour wins (if that's the case) then they should spell that out in the ad, IMO.

 

- How would you handle this if you were in TM's position or Callaway's?

 

If I were Callaway, and I had the most wins on the PGA Tour, I'd be saying exactly that. I'd even make a point to say, "We don't have the most in play, just the most wins." As for TM, I don't know that I would be so direct in my response to Callaway as the email was, but I think I would probably do some kind of response. They've had campaigns based on being the #1 driver for so long, that I imagine they want to defend the title.

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I replied earlier, but it was mostly a bunch of jumbled sentences. so I'll answer the questions.

 

 

- Does it make you think less of Taylormade?

 

Not at all. I like Taylor Made, and if they are the #1 driver (which the numbers seem to say they are) then they should make sure that claim isn't empty and isn't stolen. If anything it makes me think less of Callaway.

 

- Does it make you think Taylormade is right and Callaway is wrong with their statement?

 

Yes, but it is a Taylor Made statement, so I assume it was designed that way.

 

- Do you think this is petty bantering and should not be seen by the consumers eyes?

 

Petty bantering? Sort of, but if they are the #1 driver, they should defend that title. It was an ad, so the consumers have all the right to see it.

 

- How would you handle this if you were in TM's position or Callaway's?

 

If I was Taylor Made i would do what they did- put out the facts, like in the link in the first post.

If I was Callaway I would rescind the ad, if they were wrong. If they were right they should back it up. 2 straight wins doesn't mean you are the #1 driver.

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My driver has a #1 on the bottom of it.... could that be the #1 driver on tour????

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My driver has a #1 on the bottom of it.... could that be the #1 driver on tour????

 

Only if you're on tour... :D

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To each, his own.....

 

Problem I have with TaylorMade is as follows:

 

2009 Product Line:

 

Burner 09 (Burner 08 according to TM)

R9

R9 460

R9 TP

R9 460 TP

 

2010 Product Line:

 

Burner Superfast

R9 SuperTri

R9 SuperTri TP

R9 SuperDeep

R9 SuperDeep TP

 

AAAAAAAAND they continue to ship the Burner 460 (i.e. Burner 07) and sell that one as well.... So you have a choice of 10 TaylorMade drivers at the moment if you so choose.

 

IMO.... They need to quit making so many friggin clubs that are marginal and make 1 or 2 that are GREAT. And people wonder why their TaylorMade clubs don't hold their value....

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And people wonder why their TaylorMade clubs don't hold their value....

 

That's not always true. The TP woods hold their value like nobody's business. Until a month ago at Dick's there were 2 Superquad TPs for $500, only $100 off the original price. The r7 woods also held their value really well.

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If I was Callaway I would rescind the ad, if they were wrong. If they were right they should back it up. 2 straight wins doesn't mean you are the #1 driver.

Other people said something like this too. If the ad TM is talking about is the one I saw it was a legit claim.

 

It basically said that Cally had won x of y PGA Tour events and it was the #1 winning driver on tour. It goes back to what I said in my posts. Both can make the clam that they have the #1 driver based on the numbers they choose to look at. Both claims are true based on the information they choose to use.

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Who cares anywmore, if you hit either club well, and it fits you, toss the name away and go play.

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Who cares anywmore, if you hit either club well, and it fits you, toss the name away and go play.

Good point! Hit what you like...I don't like the marketing games by either company. I've never been a fan of Callaway's visuals (and prices) and I've played a number of Taylors over the years, but like others have pointed out, their product line is too heavy and confusing. This is merely a marketing statement and not a opinion of their clubs, many of which are of excellent quality.

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TaylorMade looks extremely petty. The Callaway ad was telling the truth - in the ad I saw. Callaway indicated that they had something like 8 wins by their "driver" out of 10 tournaments. They then went on the say that makes them the #1 driver on tour with more wins than all other drivers combined so far this year. By that definition they are right.

 

For many people like myself, there is only one "tour" and it is the PGA tour. If TM wants to say they have more people playing their driver and that makes them the #1 driver on tour, they are also right by their definition. If they want to say they have more sales, they are also right. If they want to talk about wins on tours that I could care less about and cant name any of the winners, that is fine also. If you look at the text of their email, they have to change the wording to "worldwide tour wins" so they are correct. They just changed the criteria and sent an email to protect what they feel is important. Callaway did not say worldwide at anytime in their ad that I heard.

 

It is marketing, and it is not supposed to be confined to a set definition. It is no different than TM inventing "effective MOI" as a new measurement of MOI, so they could market their stuff as leaders when MOI was all that was talked about and they could not match the Nike number when normal calculations were used. No one called for TM to rescind the ad because it was a calculation they came up with based on criteria they felt were important (and made their number higher) instead of what every other golf company (and physics professors) used.

 

Everyone knows that TM saturates the market with drivers, pays more pros to play their drivers and makes some high quality drivers. Everyone also knows that Callaway staff pros have won more PGA tour events this year than TM, and also makes some high quality drivers. The bottom line is that if you play a TM driver, you like to hear that TM is #1, and if you play a Cally, you want to hear that they are #1. It adds to the buyer satisfaction after the purchase.

 

If you believe their ads, none of their stuff is that good because they make something longer and straighter than last years model every year.

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It's no different when Mizuno & Titleist would say they were the #1 forged iron or the #1 played iron. Personally it makes me believe that Cally is grasping for whatever they can get......just like the Pro V1 thing. Now the court has ruled in favor of Titleist a few months back. I feel Cally looks bad. Just play what you like and not worry about all the hype. Right now the Cally FT TA is probably one of the best drivers out there and they have had a few wins this year on the PGA Tour, now i'm not sure about all the other Tours so I guess it all depends on what you mean by #1???? Most Played or Most Wins? I would assume we could easily enough get real data to support the facts of who is #1 (most played & most wins).

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Check out he May 10, 2010 edition of the Global Golf Post pages 2 and 6. Page 2 is TM taking a jab at Cally and 6 is them backing off their Burner claims as they have decided sales are too close to say they are still #1. Now...could that be due to them having 3 different Burner irons and it is diluting numbers on specific irons?

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