Deuce Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 So I received a free club fitting for Christmas. Very excited about it! The fitting is at a country club and they sell a specific brand of clubs, so the fitting will no doubt be aimed at those clubs. The pro is also a licensed fitter for that brand. My question is ...it is reasonable to assume that can I take those specs (loft, lie, shafts, etc) and apply it towards a different brand if I decide not to go with the brand that the CC deals with, right? What's in My Bag? Driver: Cobra F6 Fairway: Cobra F6 3/4 Hybrids: Wilson Staff D100ES (4 & 5) Irons: Wilson Staff C200 (6i to GW) Wedges: Cleveland CBX (52, 56, and 60°) Putter: Happy Putter Blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hckymeyer Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You'll probably get answers both ways, but my vote is absolutely yes. Someone paid for that fitting and that is the compensation the Pro is getting for completing that fitting. I'm sure he would love the additional business if you did order from him, but you are not obligated to do so. I good fitter should give you plenty of options both from a new equipment standpoint and also recommendations on altering your existing clubs to better fit you. The bottom line though is you should be able to take those specs anywhere you want for the club purchase. To me it's kind of like the eye doctor. They will fit you for glasses and give you your prescription. Most of them also sell glasses and they love it when you do buy from them, but you are also welcome to take that prescription elsewhere and buy whatever you would like. Driver: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black 3w: '16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82 5w: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow Hybrid: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black Irons: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Wedges: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Putter: Red 7s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Thanks for this. I do have a new (to me) set of clubs, and knowing how I can get them fit better for my game is something that I would be interested in doing. I don't know if I plan to stick with them forever (I'm a golfer, I'm addicted to shiny new clubs) but knowing they are fit to my current game would be nice. Hopefully this guy is a good fitter ... I will find out soon enough! Well, after taking a couple lessons to work on grooving my existing swing. What's in My Bag? Driver: Cobra F6 Fairway: Cobra F6 3/4 Hybrids: Wilson Staff D100ES (4 & 5) Irons: Wilson Staff C200 (6i to GW) Wedges: Cleveland CBX (52, 56, and 60°) Putter: Happy Putter Blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 You can take the same specs, maybe, and make them work. Different types of irons will perform differently. Such as SGI vs GI vs players clubs. Then there's headweight and loft to consider which can effect how different shafts perform. If anything, I'd ask for length and lie angle for sure and make sure you get a grip fitting as well. Those two would be the most transferable. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbil8802 Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 When you get fit for lie make a note of it if you do decide to take the fitting information and buy a different brand. Often times different manufacturers will have different lie angles. For example, you might be fitted 1* upright in say a set of Mizuno irons whereas if you got fit for Ping irons you might be 2* upright just because there is no set standard lie angle. You can easily take your information and look up the specs of the irons you get fitted on and compare them to the specs of other irons you may want to purchase to make sure you get the appropriate lie angle. Driver - M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X Fairway - M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X Hybrids - G25 4H 23* Irons - JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S Wedges - S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBones Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 All good advice here. If you chose to go elsewhere, make sure you know the specs of the irons you were fit with. One brands standards will most likely be different from anothers. Follow @GolfspyBones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Rookie hit it dead square in the screws with what he said. That is exactly what I was going to tell you. But as usual I was late to the party Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 8802 also gave you some solid advice. When I am bending up clubs for someone I let them swing the club on my lie board and go from there. I am not concerned about what stock lie is I refer to total degree of lie. I can give you an example for me. I set all my wedges for me at 64* now with Infiniti brand that is 1* upright to stock specs. The only time I refer to stock numbers is on loft because with some clubs due to the design if you bend up you can alter the bounce especially with wedges. The other time I forgot about stock numbers was if someone is selling clubs and want them set back to stock loft and lie then I have to look up the specs and do it from there. With the design of some clubs you have to be careful with how much you are changing the lie because you can create toe or heel drag Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I keep a chart of my lie angles, in degrees, and I build all my own clubs and have them bent. I always start at my lie angle numbers and if any adjustments are needed, they're generally minor. I have had some variance depending on the iron head and shaft (though I generally play the DG TI S400, I've tried other shafts). In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Rookie I am surprised that you do not have your own loft and lie machine. Like you I keep track of what my clubs are set at especially wedges because I mess with the wedges quite a bit and have quite a few of them. I also keep records of some of the clubs I do for friends. LOL I have one friend who trades clubs so much I have a whole notebook on him. I got to give him credit though when he comes over and wants a set bent he has already printed the spec sheet for that particular model of club. this year so far the talley is at 15 different sets but the year is not quite over yet Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbealsd Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Rookie I am surprised that you do not have your own loft and lie machine. Like you I keep track of what my clubs are set at especially wedges because I mess with the wedges quite a bit and have quite a few of them. I also keep records of some of the clubs I do for friends. LOL I have one friend who trades clubs so much I have a whole notebook on him. I got to give him credit though when he comes over and wants a set bent he has already printed the spec sheet for that particular model of club. this year so far the talley is at 15 different sets but the year is not quite over yet That man is a Ho's Ho! What's In the Bag Driver - GBB Hybrids Halo XL Halo 18* & T-Rail 20* Irons T-Rail 2.0 Wedges 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58* Putter Ball Bag Datrek DG Lite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I don't really classify him as a HO because he does not hold on to them like I do. He may keep maybe one set for backup but that is it. He mostly sells and trades on fleabay or Craigs List. I don't think he makes any money on them though but he does not care. He is probably a 30 hdcp and he is going to play the same no matter what he hits. I guess it is his way of having fun so that is ok Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I don't buy a lot of clubs, but somehow I have ended up with a lot of them! I guess I don't like to get rid of them, but when I think I should dump some of them, I see they aren't worth anything so why bother. Every once in awhile I will go through my "collection" and say, "Did I really play these?" “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Theoo Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I don't buy a lot of clubs, but somehow I have ended up with a lot of them! I guess I don't like to get rid of them, but when I think I should dump some of them, I see they aren't worth anything so why bother. Every once in awhile I will go through my "collection" and say, "Did I really play these?" I do the same thing. Most of the time I'll give the odd ones to friends who need them. I figure it's better to pass it along to someone who will use it than to get 10 bucks trading it in. Driver: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5 FW: F6 baffler set at 16º Hybrid: NONEIrons: 3i 2014 TP CB 4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400 Wedges: 52º 56º 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped Putter: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I do the same thing. Most of the time I'll give the odd ones to friends who need them. I figure it's better to pass it along to someone who will use it than to get 10 bucks trading it in. Exactly, I have actually put together a set or two for friends that showed up without clubs and wanted to play. They don't play a lot and most likely my old clubs are newer than theirs! “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbealsd Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Another way to put some retired clubs to good use is donations to First Tee and the Boys & Girls Clubs. Our local Boys & Girls Club started a "Golf for Fun" program last year and I donated most of my "club museum" to them, after my local fitter cut down the shafts and we re-gripped them. The expressions on those kids faces when they saw the clubs was priceless! What's In the Bag Driver - GBB Hybrids Halo XL Halo 18* & T-Rail 20* Irons T-Rail 2.0 Wedges 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58* Putter Ball Bag Datrek DG Lite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Reason I don't have a loft/lie machine is I had a buddy that worked at the PGA TSS that bent everything for me for free and he's the only person I ever let touch my clubs. He had all his certifications but when he graduated college he went to work and is using his degree. So now I don't have him there any more lol. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbealsd Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Reason I don't have a loft/lie machine is I had a buddy that worked at the PGA TSS that bent everything for me for free and he's the only person I ever let touch my clubs. He had all his certifications but when he graduated college he went to work and is using his degree. So now I don't have him there any more lol. In that case, I hope Santa place a loft/lie machine under your tree! What's In the Bag Driver - GBB Hybrids Halo XL Halo 18* & T-Rail 20* Irons T-Rail 2.0 Wedges 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58* Putter Ball Bag Datrek DG Lite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 In that case, I hope Santa place a loft/lie machine under your tree! Santa spent his money on the kids. Lol In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Santa spent his money on the kids. Lol Much more important! But I would be looking for another buddy... “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Rookie, You could always get this one: http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_VAM I'm planning on getting it at some stage, but I'm a bit odd. In the bag: Driver: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Alpha Convoy 514 Balls: Chrome Soft X Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I'll have a Mitchell. Just waiting on the right deal In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I can see why...but they are the Rolls Royce of machines. In the bag: Driver: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Alpha Convoy 514 Balls: Chrome Soft X Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Rookie, You could always get this one: http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_VAM I'm planning on getting it at some stage, but I'm a bit odd. Don't get that. It's just a vice to bend them against. There's no loft/lie measurement capability to it. You would have to take the club out and put it in a separate measuring tool after each adjustment. Golfworks has an inexpensive bender that does it all. It might not hold the club head as rigid as a Mitchell I would imagine, but as long as you make sure it's clamped in the right position before taking a measurement, it will be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Mitchell does make the best machines. I have a odd ball machine (expect anything else from me?) It is a Silvestri. They did not make many of them before the owner of the company got in bad health. I actually talked to the owner a few years ago. The only other people that I ever heard of using the machine was Scratch Golf and they had two of them had one for sale. I bought mine off a deal about 12 years or so ago when the owner of a small golf shop died and me and my partner at the time bought out most of his shop from his wife Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattF Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Don't get that. It's just a vice to bend them against. There's no loft/lie measurement capability to it. You would have to take the club out and put it in a separate measuring tool after each adjustment. Golfworks has an inexpensive bender that does it all. It might not hold the club head as rigid as a Mitchell I would imagine, but as long as you make sure it's clamped in the right position before taking a measurement, it will be accurate. Are you talking about this one Blade? http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_GW0053 In the bag: Driver: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5 Fairway: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5 Irons: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Wedges: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4 Putter Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Bag: Alpha Convoy 514 Balls: Chrome Soft X Cart: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8 God Bless America, God save the King, God defend New Zealand and thank Christ for Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RookieBlue7 Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 If I was getting something that's not a Mitchell, it's be a True Blue or one from GolfMechanix. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400 SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerLW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold SpinnerXW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger steppedPutter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 Are you talking about this one Blade? http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_GW0053 Yea. For doing your own clubs, it's probably the most economical. I have a similar one. You just need to be careful to check if the club head moved at all after an adjustment before you measure angles again. You would want a better one if you were using it all the time or making money with it. But for the garage? It's suitable at least. I had no desire to spend 5-600 bucks for one I only use maybe a few times a year. It's accurate and repeatable as long as you're careful that the head is clamped properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.