How much will bending an iron affect how it plays?

[Undershooter]

Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. How will that affect it though? I'm guessing it will dig more but how much more? The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

G

[revkev]

Sounds like it's a long iron. You won't notice it. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back.

[RoverRick]

In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. And here is why. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club..

 

The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. 3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft.

 

I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. I found it astonishing that by moving my hands that much forward at impact gain nearly 30 yards.

 

Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club.

 

If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. (I ran into this today.) I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge.  However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.

 

So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two.

[ZenGolfer]

Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce.

[BIG STU]

I will add a little to what was posted above. It depends on several factors including as mentioned above how steep your swing is and if you are a "digger" or "picker". Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. One good example comes to mind. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron.  Hope I did not complicate this any and maybe helped you

[Kenny B]

Lots of good comments here. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. Not going to dig any more than normal.

[RookieBlue7]

Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio.  So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree.  So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce.  If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight.

[Undershooter]

Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! Everyone's comments are super helpful! You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. Well driving iron to be exact. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. I dont want the extra length added to the shaft plus the x7 2i shaft I have for it is the last x7 shaft i have. Would bending it serve the same result?

 

Enjoyed the swing insight as well guys!

[Blade]

Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! Everyone's comments are super helpful! You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. Well driving iron to be exact. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. I dont want the extra length added to the shaft plus the x7 2i shaft I have for it is the last x7 shaft i have. Would bending it serve the same result?

 

Enjoyed the swing insight as well guys!

If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway.

[Undershooter]

If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway.

I would be using it off the ground as well, a little of both. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck. 

[Undershooter]

"If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. (I ran into this today.) I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge.  However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not."

 

 

Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. Couldn't agree more with your entire post.

[Undershooter]

Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio.  So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree.  So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce.  If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight.

I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the insight!

[lmh3]

It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me.

[Undershooter]

It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me.

Didn't think of that. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little

[Blade]

I would be using it off the ground as well, a little of both. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. The sole on that thing is tiny compared to any driving iron and I still had no trouble hitting it off the deck.

Yea if that's the case, you won't have an issue with bounce.

[Blade]

It will also increase the offset of the club, not a huge amount, but at two degrees, it is noticeable to me.

Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? It would increase if you added loft.

[Undershooter]

Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? It would increase if you added loft.

This makes more sense to me. Anyone else?

[lmh3]

Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset.

[Blade]

Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset.

I see your point, but the area the ball makes contact with moves forward in relation to the hosel when strengthening the loft. That's how I was looking at it.

[lmh3]

That is only if the area you are going to contact the ball moves up on the face as a result of bending, the lower portion of the face will move backwards when bent strong.

[Kenny B]

I don't think I could see a difference in offset from a 2* stronger loft in a driving iron.

[Undershooter]

I may not be able to either. But I never even thought of offset changing. I appreciate all the info. Its changed the club alot more than I thought it would.

[markb]

Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop.   Below, you'll see the results.

 

Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on the top halves of the hosels, this effectively bends or curves the hosel about midway.  Results of where exactly the hosel bends will vary by club type and manufacturer, but you get the idea.   To decrease loft, you have to bend the hosel and shaft back, and when you do this, the club face tilts forward when the club is returned to vertical at address.

 

You can see this in my graphic below.

 

 

You can also see that the offset does in fact increase ever so slightly in this UDI's case, thanks to the hosel bend.   That's because the leading edge of the club is furthest away from the bend point in the hosel.   The more the club is bent, the more the leading edge moves back.  

 

Also the sole bounce decreases, although when this UDI is hit off a tee this would make no difference.  

 

Curiously, the impact position on the clubface doesn't really change much at all.  Or the change, if there is one, is so small I can't really see it.

 

And of course, changes in the AoA of the user's swing will dramatically affect all of the above.

 

For what it's worth.

[Blade]

Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. Below, you'll see the results.

 

Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on the top halves of the hosels, this effectively bends or curves the hosel about midway. Results of where exactly the hosel bends will vary by club type and manufacturer, but you get the idea. To decrease loft, you have to bend the hosel and shaft back, and when you do this, the club face tilts forward when the club is returned to vertical at address.

 

You can see this in my graphic below.

 

bentudi.jpg

 

You can also see that the offset does in fact increase ever so slightly in this UDI's case, thanks to the hosel bend. That's because the leading edge of the club is furthest away from the bend point in the hosel. The more the club is bent, the more the leading edge moves back.

 

Also the sole bounce decreases, although when this UDI is hit off a tee this would make no difference.

 

Curiously, the impact position on the clubface doesn't really change much at all. Or the change, if there is one, is so small I can't really see it.

 

And of course, changes in the AoA of the user's swing will dramatically affect all of the above.

 

For what it's worth.

Good job, makes sense. Easy to picture like that.

[markb]

I'm interested in hearing how this bent UDI 2 is actually performing for Undershooter.  I bought a UDI 3 to compare against my current Speedblades 3 that I only hit off of tees.   Sadly, these two clubs' specs were SOOOOO different that I gave up the comparison before I ever hit the UDI.  I resold it, meaning to get a UDI 2, which I've never done.  

 

The UDI 3 was 20 degrees, had a very small head, and was over an inch shorter than the SB 3.  I couldn't see how it could possibily go as far or be as easy to hit as the 17 degree SB 3.  Even if I got the UDI 2, I'd still have to bend it a degree strong and probably swap or extend the shaft.   Too much work.   What I wanted is a long piercing flight that stays under the wind for those linksy shots or courses when I have to control something off the tee to about 240.   I've used that SB 3 a lot this winter.   I would say that it is also a good candidate for a driving iron, but the RBlades or SB 3 irons are just as hard to find and expensive to buy as UDI's, so it doesn't matter.

[Undershooter]

Absolutely wonderful picture and explanation Markb! Very cool of you to do that. Sadly most of this conversation is a wash for me other than the knowledge because my buddy who I got the UDI from decided to play Indian giver and sell it to someone else instead of taking the trade he had accepted. I may still end up doing this though because I can't seem to find the 16* for near the price as the 18*. I'm going to be buying one regardless and will be reshafting it with my x7 2i shaft regardless as well. If I cannot find a UDI 1i for low enough cost then it looks like I will be getting the 2 and bending it. Either way I will let everyone know what happens in the next week. The entire discussion has improved my insight on what bending a club will do to not only the loft but how it plays. Thanks again!

[Mr_Theoo]

Have you looked into a Mizuno h5 1 iron. I believe brand new it's only 125.

[Blade]

That Callaway X Utility Prototype might be a good fit. I had one in 16° and liked it. I did a trade on that one myself and never received what I traded for unfortunately. If I still had it I would offer it to you to try. It has a hot face and is great off the tee or turf. It has a good sole design to get through the turf without getting caught up in it. You may want to try one out if you can find one.

[Undershooter]

Have you looked into a Mizuno h5 1 iron. I believe brand new it's only 125.

I have not but will look into it. Thanks for the suggestion! How does it compare to the udi? Have you gotten to hit both?

[Undershooter]

That Callaway X Utility Prototype might be a good fit. I had one in 16° and liked it. I did a trade on that one myself and never received what I traded for unfortunately. If I still had it I would offer it to you to try. It has a hot face and is great off the tee or turf. It has a good sole design to get through the turf without getting caught up in it. You may want to try one out if you can find one.

Gave it a thought but the looks threw me off. I would prefer to have something that looks like an iron. Preferably a players iron but beggars can't be choosers 😀. I will try one out though if I can find one. Thanks again.