Why are there different tees?

[Blade]

What is the question of the thread? It's not, "Is it fair for a shorter hitter to move up?" Or, "What is the best way to keep score?" It's, "Why are there different tees?" They are there to be more fair to different length hitters as well as allowing new players of different abilities to play against each other better. It's like bracket racing. A Jeep could win against a Corvette.

 

It's about making the game more enjoyable.

[Zeasy]

Bombers are not penalized. They can play any tee they want. Just as anyone can. Unless there is a tournament that says differently. If you do not like that then do not play in the tournament.

You are taking away his competitive edge in a match, but keeping yours (I assume short game, because everyone is always comparing a 300 yard drive to a 3ft putt)

[Zeasy]

What is the question of the thread? It's not, "Is it fair for a shorter hitter to move up?" Or, "What is the best way to keep score?" It's, "Why are there different tees?" They are there to be more fair to different length hitters as well as allowing new players of different abilities to play against each other better. It's like bracket racing. A Jeep could win against a Corvette.

 

It's about making the game more enjoyable.

Nope. Wrong.

 

They are there for skill levels. If you are at the same skill level as the guy you are playing against (I'm talking a perfect match up. Straight up "Madden Even teams mode") and he is longer than you, he deserves to win, not have you drop the ball 10 yards on front of him. If you can compete on distance, get the ball in the fairway and work on your short game. Just because you wont do strength training or are not capable of adding yards doesn't mean you get a free pass.

 

As I've said before. What if I'm horrible out of the bunker? I cannot advance it out. By your logic, I get a free drop.

[BIG STU]

I think Rev and myself had a similar discussion on another thread about this. Now I have never met or played golf with him but from our conclusions we are about the same age and play a similar game. Courses play different and on the distance thing it can make a difference on where you live and play at. Here some courses I can play at over 6600 yards and some I can not. I make the adjustment accordingly. We did an experiment at my home course back in the summer with several of us with different handicaps participating. We played from different tees. I found out for me personally at 6600 yards on this course I could carry my stated 5 hdcp. At 6900 I was a 6 hdcp. I never tried the 7200 tees.I think the only reason I could only maintain that 1 stroke difference is because I have a pretty good short game and know those tricky greens like the back of my hand. I was looking at the posts on the match Bones and them played and part of it is how you play the game in that situation. Me I would have played from what ever tees was approate and tried to match my game to whatever happened. But that is just me I play to the old US Marine saying Improvise overcome and adapt. I know now that on the Sunbelt Senior Tour that I am now old enough to play the Super Senior division which plays from  6200 to 6400 yards.

[Zeasy]

I grew up playing on courses that had tees marked Chanpionship (tournament tees), Men's, Senior's, and Ladie's.

 

Skill and age move up, everyone else, regardless of driver distance play back.

[RoverRick]

You are taking away his competitive edge in a match, but keeping yours (I assume short game, because everyone is always comparing a 300 yard drive to a 3ft putt)

However, you can't totally teach length. While it is true that if I improve my swing I can improve my distance, I can not necessarily "learn" to hit the ball 300 yards, but I can learn to hit the ball 30 yards and get it to stop. And I can learn to read the green and to make the 3 foot putt.

 

The 300 yard hitter must still hit the approach, and make the putt. Even then, he is probably hitting a higher lofted club which is at least in theory easier to control. Thus the long hitter still has an advantage.

[Mr_Theoo]

However, you can't totally teach length. While it is true that if I improve my swing I can improve my distance, I can not necessarily "learn" to hit the ball 300 yards, but I can learn to hit the ball 30 yards and get it to stop. And I can learn to read the green and to make the 3 foot putt.

 

The 300 yard hitter must still hit the approach, and make the putt. Even then, he is probably hitting a higher lofted club which is at least in theory easier to control. Thus the long hitter still has an advantage.

I learned to hit it 300....

[Zeasy]

However, you can't totally teach length. While it is true that if I improve my swing I can improve my distance, I can not necessarily "learn" to hit the ball 300 yards, but I can learn to hit the ball 30 yards and get it to stop. And I can learn to read the green and to make the 3 foot putt.

 

The 300 yard hitter must still hit the approach, and make the putt. Even then, he is probably hitting a higher lofted club which is at least in theory easier to control. Thus the long hitter still has an advantage.

True on chipping, false on putting. Some guys are just naturally bad putters. Bernhard Langer comes to mind.

[mnfats95]

My opinion on this is that you will never get it to be 100% fair.

 

The reason different tees exist is because golfers of different abilities play the same courses and they need to be able to play the course setup in a way that they can actually enjoy themselves. They also exist on the newer courses so you can setup holes different ways.

 

Everyone is arguing about how golfers should be judged against each other and there is no completely fair way to handicap this game. It is a guide or suggestion on a golfer's skill and not an absolute. Tons of people don't enter all their scores or selectively do so anyway so it's a crap shoot from the get go.

 

The only fair way to compare two golfers is to have them play from the same tees in the same conditions. It really doesn't matter how their games differ, it's the only way. If someone has a 60 yard advantage off the tees then they have a huge advantage and are probably better at golf than the shorter player unless they have a horrible short game to even it out.

 

The fact is that in this game length can be a huge advantage, and just like someone who is deaf or blind has their other senses increase in function, those who are distance challenged have to have the other parts of their game become better to make up for it to shoot the same scores as the bombers who rely on length.

 

The rating of a set of tees tries to account for this, but it's not perfect and it's acknowledged that it's not.

 

If you can't agree on which tees everyone is going to play then don't play them for money. If someone insists on playing from tees that are further up then play up there with them. As a longer hitter you will be hitting shorter irons than the other player all day anyway and will still have an advantage. Hell you won't have to hit driver all the time and will probably hit more fairways too.

 

If the people in your mentioned two day group didn't play any better from the back tees they were probably playing the wrong tees too and should have moved up as well.

[Blade]

Nope. Wrong.

 

They are there for skill levels. If you are at the same skill level as the guy you are playing against (I'm talking a perfect match up. Straight up "Madden Even teams mode") and he is longer than you, he deserves to win, not have you drop the ball 10 yards on front of him. If you can compete on distance, get the ball in the fairway and work on your short game. Just because you wont do strength training or are not capable of adding yards doesn't mean you get a free pass.

 

As I've said before. What if I'm horrible out of the bunker? I cannot advance it out. By your logic, I get a free drop.

I won't say that skill level isn't part of it, especially with new players or really high caps. It doesn't make a bit of sense for them to play all the way back. But if your drives don't make it to the fairway and you're hitting hybrids or woods to par 4s, you're not playing the game as intended, you're not using the tees as intended, and you're missing out on the fun. What's the point of that? Ego. No logical reason other than EGO.

[Zeasy]

I won't say that skill level isn't part of it, especially with new players or really high caps. It doesn't make a bit of sense for them to play all the way back. But if your drives don't make it to the fairway and you're hitting hybrids or woods to par 4s, you're not playing the game as intended, you're not using the tees as intended, and you're missing out on the fun. What's the point of that? Ego. No logical reason other than EGO.

If you are struggling that much off the tee, your ego is telling you, that you are better than you really are.

[Blade]

I learned to hit it 300....

Bragging about hitting a 300 yd drive as a 36 cap is.... Well, you fill in the blank. You clearly can't control it, so what's the point? How far you can hit it every so often or getting it in the hole? You're missing the whole point of the game if that's your claim to fame.

[Mr_Theoo]

I won't say that skill level isn't part of it, especially with new players or really high caps. It doesn't make a bit of sense for them to play all the way back. But if your drives don't make it to the fairway and you're hitting hybrids or woods to par 4s, you're not playing the game as intended, you're not using the tees as intended, and you're missing out on the fun. What's the point of that? Ego. No logical reason other than EGO.

What if you aren't playing for fun? What if it is a tournament or even a friendly competition for bragging right?

[Zeasy]

Bragging about hitting a 300 yd drive as a 36 cap is.... Well, you fill in the blank. You clearly can't control it, so what's the point? How far you can hit it every so often or getting it in the hole? You're missing the whole point of the game if that's your claim to fame.

Having hit a few drives 300, I can tell you that it is a lot of fun. After all, it is a game, right?

[Blade]

If you are struggling that much off the tee, your ego is telling you, that you are better than you really are.

That's entirely possible. But if the HC is legit, it's not imagination. Sure a HC calculated mostly from a single course played almost exclusively may not be the same skill as someone who plays just about anywhere to that level. But it's still official.

[langesc88]

A scratch golfer around here is scratch when playing to that level from the tees they use in competition. When you get to a certain handicap level, you can only adjust it by playing tournaments.

 

A scratch golfer at one club with a short course could be a 5hcp at a longer course. Or one with more water. Smaller greens. Etc etc. 

 

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how men, especially seniors, choose the wrong tee. By wrong, I mean playing from one where you can't even reach the fairway. Spent 2 hours shooting video at a practice area close to Quinta do Lago North here in Portugal. Tee shot from yellow is around 170 over water. Out of 20+ guys, 2 made it over. 

 

Choose a tee that fits your game. You'll have more fun.

And pace of play would actually speed up which would be nice

[Mr_Theoo]

Bragging about hitting a 300 yd drive as a 36 cap is.... Well, you fill in the blank. You clearly can't control it, so what's the point? How far you can hit it every so often or getting it in the hole? You're missing the whole point of the game if that's your claim to fame.

All I said was I learned to hit the ball further. Not that I'm better than anyone else.

[Blade]

Having hit a few drives 300, I can tell you that it is a lot of fun. After all, it is a game, right?

It's fun alright, as long as they're playable. I generally hit one or two in that range in a round. My best was 326. But I bet my average on a good day might be 250 at best, 230 if I'm not doing so great. I have no delusions that I have any business playing from championship tees.

[mnfats95]

What if you aren't playing for fun? What if it is a tournament or even a friendly competition for bragging right?

 

Then everyone should play from the same tees.

[Zeasy]

It's fun alright, as long as they're playable. I generally hit one or two in that range in a round. My best was 326. But I bet my average one a good day might be 250 at best, 230 if I'm not doing so great. I have no delusions that I have any business playing from championship tees.

Long drives, predictable iron play, bunker play, pitches, chips, flops, lag putts, short putts. All arguably equal components to play your best golf. It's not possible to practice them all and just because you suck at one doesn't mean you get to move up a tee, take a free drop or get a gimme.

 

Sure, golf is more fun when you play better. But if you are "cheating" the system to play better, you aren't getting any better.

[Blade]

All I said was I learned to hit the ball further. Not that I'm better than anyone else.

I know, but it's pointless to hit it 300 when you can't control it. It's just that much farther in trouble. I bet you would break 100 if you didn't take anything over a 7i to the course. You would learn a lot, have more fun scoring, and probably do better the next time did bring a driver.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Then everyone should play from the same tees.

 

Pretty simple -- agree on the tees, adjust handicaps accordingly and move on.  It should work fine unless the handicaps are BS, either high or low...

 

Either that or don't play money games...

[RoverRick]

It's fun alright, as long as they're playable. I generally hit one or two in that range in a round. My best was 326. But I bet my average one a good day might be 250 at best, 230 if I'm not doing so great. I have no delusions that I have any business playing from championship tees.

I have done this also, the issue is when you have to hit 220 to reach the fairway and you are forcing the driver it interferes with your natural swing. As these guys can attest, what caused some of the resentment was that the next day, playing from the shorter tees, I was more relaxed, and was almost able to reach a par 5 in two when the day before I couldn't reach in 3. I moved up and my driving improved by 30 yards average simply because I was no longer concerned about reaching the fairway.

[RoverRick]

And pace of play would actually speed up which would be nice

I will not start on our pace of play that day.

[Zeasy]

I know, but it's pointless to hit it 300 when you can't control it. It's just that much farther in trouble. I bet you would break 100 if you didn't take anything over a 7i to the course. You would learn a lot, have more fun scoring, and probably do better the next time did bring a driver.

He wants to learn length because golf is getting longer. I don't think theoo cares about breaking 100, he cares about putting the blocks in place to best can be in a year or two. Not the best he can be next week.

[RoverRick]

I learned to hit it 300....

 

 

All I said was I learned to hit the ball further. Not that I'm better than anyone else.

 

No, it looks like you said you learned to hit the ball 300 yards.

[Mr_Theoo]

I know, but it's pointless to hit it 300 when you can't control it. It's just that much farther in trouble. I bet you would break 100 if you didn't take anything over a 7i to the course. You would learn a lot, have more fun scoring, and probably do better the next time did bring a driver.

Tried it before and I did not. Because taking the driver away from me is taking a strength away from my game.

[Undershooter]

This all seems a bit overthought by most people to me. Everyone should play the box they are comfortable with as long as it's just a game for fun.

If it is to be a fair competition, match, tournament, money game that assesses how good the player's really are then it needs to be played from the same box and agreed on before the round. Golf is a combination of all parts of the game.

Do they let women like sorenstam or wie play from a different box? No.

Do they let older players such as Watson or couples play from a different box than the young guys when they play in tour events? No.

If you can't compete with someone from that tee box then ask for strokes or give them strokes to move forward. If they don't accept your offer then you don't have a game. This is something that should be hammered out way ahead of time.

Example: I played a guy today that was 20+ years my senior and I had easily a 50 yard advantage on. He wanted to play the tips and we did. He proceeded to beat my @ss. This isn't bc I'm a bad player or anything, I shot 68 yesterday. He knew what he had to do to score and he did it.

[Undershooter]

No, it looks like you said you learned to hit the ball 300 yards.

I believe 300 yards was the number used as an example saying that It couldn't be learned. Its hardly bragging to use the number that was originally put forth.

[Zeasy]

This all seems a bit overthought by most people to me. Everyone should play the box they are comfortable with as long as it's just a game for fun.

If it is to be a fair competition, match, tournament, money game that assesses how good the player's really are then it needs to be played from the same box and agreed on before the round. Golf is a combination of all parts of the game.

Do they let women like sorenstam or wie play from a different box? No.

Do they let older players such as Watson or couples play from a different box than the young guys when they play in tour events? No.

If you can't compete with someone from that tee box then ask for strokes or give them strokes to move forward. If they don't accept your offer then you don't have a game. This is something that should be hammered out way ahead of time.

Example: I played a guy today that was 20+ years my senior and I had easily a 50 yard advantage on. He wanted to play the tips and we did. He proceeded to beat my @ss. This isn't bc I'm a bad player or anything, I shot 68 yesterday. He knew what he had to do to score and he did it.

+1