Jump to content
TESTERS WANTED! ×

Bad swing, low cap; Good swing, high cap


Mr_Theoo

Recommended Posts

Can you be a low digit handicap with a bad swing? And in reverse can you be a high digit handicap with a good swing?

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely, I am in the junior golf circuit, and I am around some really good golfers.  I have seen so many really weird swings on kids shooting really low scores, but the best of the best (the ones who are probably going to play big time D1 golf) have the swings that look exactly the same every single time, and it just kills you to play with them.  It is just fairway, green, fairway, green all day long.

I also see the kids with all the super expensive equipment and nice swings that can't play at all.

Driver:  Taylormade 2017 M2 9.5 degree head played at 8 degrees.  Fujikura speeder evolution tour spec x flex shaft tipped 1/4 inch.  

 

3-Wood: 15 degree M2 tour.  Fujikura pro 73 tour spec X flex shaft.  

 

Mizuno H5 2 iron.

 

4 iron: mizuno mp h4 4 iron dynamic gold s300

 

5-pw iron: mizuno mp 54 dynamic gold s300

 

52, 56, 60 wedges: cleveland 588 rotex cavity

 

putter: 34 inch nike method 00 half circle mallet putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've all seen bad looking swings with good results. They have learned what the club needs to do to make the ball do what they want and have found their own way to make it happen.

 

What a swing may look like, good or bad, isn't necessarily the indicator of its quality. The results tell the story.

 

If someone is hitting the fat, topped, shanked, toed, left and right shots that come with a high handicap, the swing is not a low cap swing no matter what it may look like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think both are possible. It all comes down to repeatability. I used to play with a guy that aimed 60 yards left, came way over the top and hit a 40 yard slice. But he did it every single time. He knew what it was gonna do and played it. He'd shoot in the 70s all day.

TIBA Putt - Discover your best stroke.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No. A guy with a "good swing" is not dropping 1-2 shots a hole, every hole, consistently for 20+ rounds.

<p><strong>D:</strong>    :ping-small:   9* G400 Max w/Xcalibur TSL</p><p> </p><p><strong>F: </strong>  :callaway-small: 14* XR Pro 16 w/Hzrdous Red</p><p><strong>I:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: SLS-01 4-SW w/Paderson SL</p><p><strong>W:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: DGR 59 w/Dynamic Gold SL</p><p><strong>P:</strong> Artisan 0318 or Edel TB</p><p> 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I like the terms "good swing" and "bad swing" and I'm not even sure how to define them. I think everyone has their own swing and it comes down to how effective it is for him or her. I've seen guys with "ugly" looking swings that shoot in the 70s and guys with "pretty" looking swings that shoot in the 100s. In relation to handicap, there are other things that factor into it like short game and putting. So I guess if you have a "bad" swing where you miss most fairways and greens but you can get up and down almost every time then you could have a fairly low handicap. I think it's harder to say that someone with a "good" swing would have a very high handicap. I'm with Zeasy on that part of it.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess it depends on the definition of "bad" or "good." Swings may look "bad" but if they produce results? Lee Trevino aimed 40 yards left and block faded the ball, there was nothing pretty about it and yet he got props in our ball striker thread...deservedly.

 

Bottom line I will take the better ball striker every time regardless of what his swing looks like.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some "bad swings" win majors. But I don't think it is possible for high 30+ handicap to have a single digit swing. Even an atrocious short game would still piggy back off the swing and shoot decent scores.

 

As a junior I was a terrible putter. But I could break 80 with 40+ putts.

<p><strong>D:</strong>    :ping-small:   9* G400 Max w/Xcalibur TSL</p><p> </p><p><strong>F: </strong>  :callaway-small: 14* XR Pro 16 w/Hzrdous Red</p><p><strong>I:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: SLS-01 4-SW w/Paderson SL</p><p><strong>W:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: DGR 59 w/Dynamic Gold SL</p><p><strong>P:</strong> Artisan 0318 or Edel TB</p><p> 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some "bad swings" win majors. But I don't think it is possible for high 30+ handicap to have a single digit swing. Even an atrocious short game would still piggy back off the swing and shoot decent scores.

As a junior I was a terrible putter. But I could break 80 with 40+ putts.

Exactly, every green in regulation 36, 40 putts, 76.

 

But again "bad" swing is subjective. What result does the swing produce regardless of the look. Now there could be someone with a truly bad swing who is a great athlete and keeps it together enough to hit good shots for a few rounds but their handicap won't be low because the swing doesn't repeat.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No matter how ugly it is, if it works, is it bad? Trevino and Furyic sure aint pretty. Who is going to argue with the results? Like Arnie says... swing your swing!

Exactly. I played with a guy with the goofiest swing I've ever seen. The contortions he would go through made me cringe. He probably was doing good to hit a drive 180. It was a 30-40 yd slice every time. But he didn't try to fight it. He knew it was going to do that so he aimed for it and put it in the fairway nearly every time. He could move the ball around the course and score in spite of a horrendous swing.

 

But you won't see someone with a technically good solid repeatable swing shooting 110-120 every round. If your swing is halfway reasonable, you can shoot around 90 even with poor course management, especially if your putting is fair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's why I keep putting good and bad in quotations. A good swing is all about knowing where your misses are going to be.

<p><strong>D:</strong>    :ping-small:   9* G400 Max w/Xcalibur TSL</p><p> </p><p><strong>F: </strong>  :callaway-small: 14* XR Pro 16 w/Hzrdous Red</p><p><strong>I:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: SLS-01 4-SW w/Paderson SL</p><p><strong>W:</strong>   :edel-golf-1: DGR 59 w/Dynamic Gold SL</p><p><strong>P:</strong> Artisan 0318 or Edel TB</p><p> 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Furyk, that is all.

I knew this would come up. Classic example of a swing that looks bad but is actually quite good, simple and repeatable. His ball striking numbers are consistently top third.

 

So Mr. Theo if that's what you mean by "bad" swing, yes. But it's not a bad swing, neither was Trevinos or Fred's (yeah I know everyone thinks he has this great looking swing because of his tempo but stand behind him, he's aiming 30 yards left as well.)

 

I think you may mean ugly swing, might a player have an ugly swing or pretty swing as opposed to good or bad.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My old swing, bad swing = Over the top, tight arms, early release and my best round ever was 66.(Last year). Max distance with this swing was maybe 220 carry.and was a low ball hitter.

 

Now, in my quest to get better, I knew what I needed to do to gain more distance. The problem was every time I tried the new swing I could only do it 4 or 5 times and then my back hurt. So it was back to the old swing. I decided I just needed to get used to it and the pain would go away. So I continued this even after my back said quit. Well, that did not work out so well, and the month I spent lying on my back recovering from it I joined this site.

 

Over the years I tried going back to it and eventually found a combination that worked, Recently, I have been able to develop a good swing that seams to hold up not hurt.

 

So now I have a "good" proper swing. Early wrist set, twist to the top, keep my head still, maintain my wrist set until waist high, hit from the inside, and now I am a high ball hitter, and gained significant yardage.

 

Has this improved my handicap any?

 

Nope, not really. It would if I play golf as often as I used to. But before, while I had a swing that did many things wrong, I made center of the club contact most of the time, I knew where my misses were going to go, and I worked on recovering from those distances.

 

I will say that swing changes have caused some temporary issues with the short game. That coupled with virtually no practice time has wreaked more havoc on my game then the "good" swing can make up for. However, the good swing path has increase ACCURACY as well as distance.

 

Once I get my short game back on track I think I will see vast improvements. Especially on courses that I do not normally play.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is "golf swing" and there is "golf."

I definitely have a "golf" swing. It ain't pretty at times, but I can get it done.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • SPY VIP

The real question is the definition of good and bad. Are we talking a good (consistent) vs bad (inconsistent)? Or ugly swing but good player and pretty swing bad player?

 

A 36 cap may have what someone deems a "good looking swing", but this swing is still highly technically inefficient and this is why they're for the most part a 36. A 36 might hit 2 for every ten shots good, but most likely the other 8 shots aren't pretty results and place the golfer in horrible positions or not advance the ball very far. A single digit cap on the other hand may hit 7/10 good shots, but it's not likely the 3 mishits are for instance tops or skulls. The 36 also doesn't have the swing consistency to keep the deep woods or deep water shot out of the way as often as the single digit. Some would argue that could fall under course management, but you still need to know you're going to hit a decent/good/straight shot to accomplish this.

 

I'm a 12 right now and my swing might look decent, but it has the technical efficiency/consistency of a 12. 5-6/10 good shots with a few decent and still the chance of a skull. This inefficiency is made up for however by a great short game.

 

Now on the ugly side of things I've seen this in person. We had an assistant at my course growing up who played a 40 yard hook, he didn't have a bad swing he had a technically proficient ugly swing. He had honed his ball striking to a predictable 40 yards hook and could consistently and confidently play that shot. Combine this with what most pros have a better than average short game to produce a great golfer.

 

So yes a high cap can have a swing that is pleasant on the eyes, but break it down and it's highly inefficient and inconsistent. A low cap can have an ugly swing, but it is quite a proficient one.

Yo #JustPlayBetter


Follow @GolfSpyMBP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • SPY VIP

My old swing, bad swing = Over the top, tight arms, early release and my best round ever was 66.(Last year). Max distance with this swing was maybe 220 carry.and was a low ball hitter.

Please teach me this over the top bad, 220 yards all day swing so i too can shoot 66, pretty please. 😃

Yo #JustPlayBetter


Follow @GolfSpyMBP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please teach me this over the top bad, 220 yards all day swing so i too can shoot 66, pretty please.

 

So I still have hope!   Rick is describing my swing, but I can't shoot 66 either.  Guess I need to fix the rest of my game.

 

Several people have mentioned players that have perfected 40 yard hooks or slices and play pretty well using that swing.  It works some places, but not others.  A friend of mine from Ohio is a pretty good player, 7-8 HCP.  Not an ugly swing, but he used to have a big slice and could play it very well.  Never pulled it straight left like some players do occasionally.  We played a course in Tennessee once that had trees very close in on both sides of the tee boxes; like driving out of a tunnel.  He couldn't start the ball far enough left to stay out of the trees to the right of the fairway; actually clipped several that left a very long second shot.  Didn't do it with any club except the driver, so basically had to hit fairway wood or long iron to keep it in play.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I play with a lot of low handicap guys that have "technically" terrible swings, but they know how to score and are consistent.  I always go back to the comment that Harvey Pennick made to one of his students making comments about someone with a bad grip and a bad swing at a high level tournament.  Mr. Pennick told him that you don't want to play that guy since he must be good if he got here with the grip and swing.

 

I play with a guy that is scratch or better on any given day and his swing has more loops than a roller coaster at Six Flags.  He does not miss fairways and has a short game that would make you cry....which I normally do when I have to pay up on 18.

WITB 2024

   Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60g 6.5

   M5 15* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5

   Sim Ti 22* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5

   Sim2 Rescue 22* Diamana Thump 100x

   X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX 

   Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

   Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75"

   Z Star Diamond

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please teach me this over the top bad, 220 yards all day swing so i too can shoot 66, pretty please.

 

 

So I still have hope!   Rick is describing my swing, but I can't shoot 66 either.  Guess I need to fix the rest of my game.

 

Several people have mentioned players that have perfected 40 yard hooks or slices and play pretty well using that swing.  It works some places, but not others.  A friend of mine from Ohio is a pretty good player, 7-8 HCP.  Not an ugly swing, but he used to have a big slice and could play it very well.  Never pulled it straight left like some players do occasionally.  We played a course in Tennessee once that had trees very close in on both sides of the tee boxes; like driving out of a tunnel.  He couldn't start the ball far enough left to stay out of the trees to the right of the fairway; actually clipped several that left a very long second shot.  Didn't do it with any club except the driver, so basically had to hit fairway wood or long iron to keep it in play.  

I only shot that one time. I shoot in the 60's about 0.2% of the time. That is 4 times in 2000 rounds. Once I am pretty sure was an accident, because I had never broken par at that time. I was doing a ball review and it was not until afterwards I was told the score. I was shocked.

 

I had 6 birdies Sunday, but 9 over on the other holes so....

 

And. MBP,  you saw my bad swing when I was in Canada.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Better words would be traditional vs unique swing.

 

Go to your local muni at 4PM or better yet, an executive course and watch those swings. Most are bad, very bad swings.

 

(I once saw a lady hit a house 90 degrees to the right 50 yards away.)

 

Then you'll see a guy or girl with a nice swing and realize the difference. 

 

However, a nice swing can be quirky... like Furyk's or many others. Just because they're not the cookie cutter doesn't mean it won't work.

 Driver:   :callaway-small:  Epic Flash 12 Degree

Wood: :callaway-small:  GBB 3 Wood
Hybrid: :callaway-small: Razr 4 hybriid stiff stock shaft.
Irons: :callaway-small: X2 Hot 4 iron (pro version) 5 iron - Gap Wedge (non pro version).  KBS 120g Shaft stiff cut 1/2  inch bent 1°upright
Wedges: :vokey-small: 52° 56° and 60°.
All grips are Golf pride grips midsized
Putter (lefty):  Odyssey Metal-X #8 34", stock shaft bent 2° Superstroke grip
Golf Balls:   :titelist-small: 2018-9 Pro-V1x and Prov1s
Shoes:  :footjoy-small:  Dryjoy tours

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...