research - your help needed!

[TIBA_Putt - Kyle]

Sure Kenny,

 

As a putter designer & developer of putter fitting and coaching systems, I am very interested in how seriously people approach their putters and technique. There are patterns which show up and if there is enough response then I can gauge what the trend is and assess how people react to specific factors.

 

For example, a large percentage of putters which have been shortened to less than 33" are mallet putters and are heavier and/or backweighted. This is also a common occurrence on tour.

 

Of the 90 putters which I fitted last year not a single one came out at industry standard (34", 35", combined with a 71° lie angle). I believe that 95% of the result for a short putt is determined before the putter starts moving. This is where a properly fitted putter and better information would help improve performance.

 

I will reveal more later but I really need more responses to back it up.

I actually went through a putter fitting a couple years back and was fit into a standard 34" 71*. As I've later come to realize, it didn't take into account eye dominance and how I see the line from ball to hole. I was just fitted to the standard, "You need your eyes over or just inside the ball." Working with my coach after the fitting, we found that I don't see the line from ball to hole properly unless either my eyes are outside the ball or my stance is open. I wanted to be square at address, so we shortened and bent my putter upright. Now my eyes are outside the ball and I see the line from ball to hole correctly.

[mr_divots]

I'm not that tall at about 6'1-6'2" and like the 35.5" length very much.

I find it odd of 90 people not one would fit into a 34 or 35" putter? That almost doesn't seem possible?

[westy]

My one period when I genuinely loved my putter was back in the 90's with a Ping Pal that was cut to 31.5 inches and had so much lead on it, but perhaps it's just memory playing tricks - I probably didn't hole much then either!

 

I'm 5 ft 10 and 34 inch putters feel very long to me.

 

Think this is the year I might get myself properly fit for a putter.....

[Kenny B]

My one period when I genuinely loved my putter was back in the 90's with a Ping Pal that was cut to 31.5 inches and had so much lead on it, but perhaps it's just memory playing tricks - I probably didn't hole much then either!

 

I'm 5 ft 10 and 34 inch putters feel very long to me.

 

Think this is the year I might get myself properly fit for a putter.....

 

A shorter, heavier putter made all the difference for me.

[Kenny B]

I actually went through a putter fitting a couple years back and was fit into a standard 34" 71*. As I've later come to realize, it didn't take into account eye dominance and how I see the line from ball to hole. I was just fitted to the standard, "You need your eyes over or just inside the ball." Working with my coach after the fitting, we found that I don't see the line from ball to hole properly unless either my eyes are outside the ball or my stance is open. I wanted to be square at address, so we shortened and bent my putter upright. Now my eyes are outside the ball and I see the line from ball to hole correctly.

 

For Stuart as well,

I forgot to mention that I changed my putting stance about a year ago.  I am right eye dominant, and for years I was putting with a 34" putter ala Nicklaus because I "could see the line" better with a very open stance.  However, the putter was too long and I was choked down to the shaft and my elbows severely bent.  That worked OK even when I changed to the Heavy putter, but it worked best for long, lag putting.  The bad with that stance was that I tended to miss what I thought was a high % of short putts.  So I spent a lot of time on the putting green with a 10' string between two long nails; set the string along the start line of the putt that put the ball in the hole with the correct speed; and spent a lot of time putting with eyes over the string and a square setup.  It was not easy at first ( I missed a lot of putts to the right).  But eventually I trained my eyes to coordinate with my arms along the correct path.  Not perfect yet, but better.  I also found that lag putting using this new method is just as good as the old method.  

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

1, What putter do you use and why?  TM Ghost Spider Si 38" counterbalanced putter.  Did MGS Product Review of it, hasn't come out of my bag yet.  Best thing that ever happened to my golf game.

 

2, What are the specs of your putter?  38"

 

3, How long have you been using the current putter in your bag? 10 months

 

4, Do you commit to a specific method?  Pendulum

 

5, How do you rate your putting performance on a scale of 1 to 10?  Mid to Long putts (over 5')  8

Short putts 4.  Don't know why the big difference, other than my somewhat long stroke for the longer putts doesn't translate to short putts, so I try to manufacture something for short putts.  

[Kenny B]

Sure Kenny,

 

As a putter designer & developer of putter fitting and coaching systems, I am very interested in how seriously people approach their putters and technique. There are patterns which show up and if there is enough response then I can gauge what the trend is and assess how people react to specific factors.

 

For example, a large percentage of putters which have been shortened to less than 33" are mallet putters and are heavier and/or backweighted. This is also a common occurrence on tour.

 

Of the 90 putters which I fitted last year not a single one came out at industry standard (34", 35", combined with a 71° lie angle). I believe that 95% of the result for a short putt is determined before the putter starts moving. This is where a properly fitted putter and better information would help improve performance.

 

I will reveal more later but I really need more responses to back it up. 

 

Thanks Stuart!  I will be looking forward to your assessment.  From what I see at golf stores, the majority of golfers buy putters based on looks or reputation, not on actual performance.  So, armed with a putter that doesn't fit them (and maybe doesn't even feel that good), they adjust their stroke to make it work.  I can say that because that is exactly what I did!  

[gentleman mongoose]

I'm not that tall at about 6'1-6'2" and like the 35.5" length very much.

I find it odd of 90 people not one would fit into a 34 or 35" putter? That almost doesn't seem possible?

There were people fitted to a longer length but that usually came out at 69° (there were a couple of 70° too) but definitely no one above this. The eye position is also very important in determining this angle.

[wbealsd]

I actually went through a putter fitting a couple years back and was fit into a standard 34" 71*. As I've later come to realize, it didn't take into account eye dominance and how I see the line from ball to hole. I was just fitted to the standard, "You need your eyes over or just inside the ball." Working with my coach after the fitting, we found that I don't see the line from ball to hole properly unless either my eyes are outside the ball or my stance is open. I wanted to be square at address, so we shortened and bent my putter upright. Now my eyes are outside the ball and I see the line from ball to hole correctly.

I see well enough with both eyes focused, but have "floaters" in my left eye so I tend to shift my head to the left for my right eye to see the hole, which makes it hard for me to be square at address.  I used to putt "side-saddle," and still do sometimes for long. lag putts.

[jmwils81]

I actually went through a putter fitting a couple years back and was fit into a standard 34" 71*. As I've later come to realize, it didn't take into account eye dominance and how I see the line from ball to hole. I was just fitted to the standard, "You need your eyes over or just inside the ball." Working with my coach after the fitting, we found that I don't see the line from ball to hole properly unless either my eyes are outside the ball or my stance is open. I wanted to be square at address, so we shortened and bent my putter upright. Now my eyes are outside the ball and I see the line from ball to hole correctly.

And you've dialed in your stroke with the TIBA

[mr_divots]

There were people fitted to a longer length but that usually came out at 69° (there were a couple of 70° too) but definitely no one above this. The eye position is also very important in determining this angle.

Definitely. I can tell how my eye line is better at this length. If I'm not seeing the line, I know my ball position is off. Usually standing too close.

[TIBA_Putt - Kyle]

And you've dialed in your stroke with the TIBA

Wel of course!! 😎

[gentleman mongoose]

I see well enough with both eyes focused, but have "floaters" in my left eye so I tend to shift my head to the left for my right eye to see the hole, which makes it hard for me to be square at address.  I used to putt "side-saddle," and still do sometimes for long. lag putts.

Side saddle is such a great way to putt. I have taught this to a few people who have sight issues and it works really well. Putting is a target orientated action and the way we all perform this action (standing sideways to the target line and focused on the ball, not the target) goes against the nature of target aiming. It is like aiming a rifle from the side and looking at the rifle whilst pulling the trigger.

 

This is a subject which should be given its own thread. Please keep the responses coming over what you use. I believe that there is a lot of good to come from it!

[N8ball]

I would like to ask you to take time out to answer a few questions for research purposes. 

 

1, What putter do you use and why? - Cleveland Classic HB3

2, What are the specs of your putter? - 33" length

3, How long have you been using the current putter in your bag? - 1 month

4, Do you commit to a specific method? - I definitely try to get the same posture for eye alignment and ball position.

5, How do you rate your putting performance on a scale of 1 to 10? - 6   I get hot once in awhile, but generally pretty average at best.

 

I look forward to your responses

[Jmikecpa]

This should be interesting for me...

 

1, What putter do you use and why? - Scotty Circle T GoLo centershaft.  I like the way it sets up and rolls the ball great.

2, What are the specs of your putter? 34", 4* of loft, 1* flat

3, How long have you been using the current putter in your bag?  Less than a month

4, Do you commit to a specific method? Nope, roll it the way it works that day and change putters to fit what I feel at different points during the season.

5, How do you rate your putting performance on a scale of 1 to 10?  Generally a solid putter so I would go 8 out of 10.

 

I own way too many putters and change sometimes just for the heck of it, but generally putt well with whatever is in my bag. In a given year I can go from an 8802 style to a counter balanced face balanced putter with no issues.   I have a putting green at home and practice about half and hour to an hour a day as my way to unwind from the workday.  Started this a few years ago and turned putting from a weakness into a strength for my game and it even lets me spend some quality time with my kids since they like to putt indoors as well.    

[TIBA_Putt - Kyle]

I have a putting green at home and practice about half and hour to an hour a day as my way to unwind from the workday. Started this a few years ago and turned putting from a weakness into a strength for my game and it even lets me spend some quality time with my kids since they like to putt indoors as well. [/font][/color]

 

This is just awesome. Wish I had a putting green at home.

[Jmikecpa]

This is just awesome. Wish I had a putting green at home.

Living in the Northeast it is the only thing that I can do year round and something that I needed to work on in my game.  It is relaxing to come home at night, grab a beer and head down and roll putts for half or so.

[revkev]

So when you say at home you mean in your house?  That's cool - it wasn't damaged by the flooding last spring was it?

[gentleman mongoose]

Living in the Northeast it is the only thing that I can do year round and something that I needed to work on in my game.  It is relaxing to come home at night, grab a beer and head down and roll putts for half or so.

That is how it should be done! You have to be careful with the beer/performance ratio

[revkev]

That's a study you should do GM, how many beers are needed before performance suffers and what type of beer provides the greatest performance enhancement!

 

Seriously this is an intriguing thread. I hope more guys respond so that we get to the punch line.

[Jmikecpa]

My wife told me my performance suffers after 8 beers.

[mr_divots]

Living in the Northeast it is the only thing that I can do year round and something that I needed to work on in my game.  It is relaxing to come home at night, grab a beer and head down and roll putts for half or so.

I'm the same way with my Big Moss. I must get at least 1/2 hr or an hour a day putting in the winter.

I hate to just sit and watch TV or whatnot, so when I need to get up and move for a while, its usually down to putt some golf balls for a while. Has definitely helped those 6 footers.

I was chipping around the new Z-stars last night.

[Clemsonfan]

1. custom made Sizemore putter by Gene Nead. It fits my modest arc stroke tilted right.

2. 34.5", 67* lie angle, 4* loft, and full shaft offset. Not quite face balanced, and sits at 3:30 balanced on my finger. Superstroke 3.0 grip, but Putted better with the 2.0 I replaced, at least on fast greens. No sight lines or alignment aids.

3. Since May 2011.

4. I have a very slight arc tilted right, and swing with my right arm. My misses are right if I block the putt. My goal is to take it slightly inside on the takeaway, and release down the line. I have been using the method for a few months prior to purchasing this putter.

5. I am a 5 handicap, and putt slightly above my handicap average. I hit plenty of greens, but average 2.0 putts per GIR. Overall, I average 30.5 putts per round. About a 6.5?

 

I took several Aimpoint classes several years ago prior to a two-year hiatus. Last year, after reading Every Shot Counts, my putts per round dropped because I played aggressively and focused most of my practice on the long game.

[TheCommonHacker]

1, scotty Cameron Futura X

2, 35 inches

3, 4 Months

4, Straight back Straight Forward

5, A strong 5

 

[silver & black]

My wife told me my performance suffers after 8 beers.

My ex told me never again after 5 healthy pours of Lagavulin 12 cask strength...... as she walked gingerly the rest of the day.

[silver & black]

I forgot all the questions, but I'll get in on this anyway.

 

I use a Rife Aussie putter. It is toe heavy. I believe it is 340 grams. I have a more or less straight back, straight through stroke.

 

I will admit that I bought it because I liked the looks of it, and I made quite a few putts at the golf shop when I tried it out. I purchased it at 33". I have since cut it down to 32.5" I think I would really like it to be 32". I'm 5' 9" and I like the putter to hang naturally, with my arms more or less straight. 

 

I am NOT a good putter putter. I 3 putt way too often. I don't know if that is because I have the wrong putter or because I just suck at putting. I do have times when I putt like a god...lol. But those times are far too few.

 

 What type of putter should a straight back/through stroke use?

[gentleman mongoose]

I forgot all the questions, but I'll get in on this anyway.

 

I use a Rife Aussie putter. It is toe heavy. I believe it is 340 grams. I have a more or less straight back, straight through stroke.

 

I will admit that I bought it because I liked the looks of it, and I made quite a few putts at the golf shop when I tried it out. I purchased it at 33". I have since cut it down to 32.5" I think I would really like it to be 32". I'm 5' 9" and I like the putter to hang naturally, with my arms more or less straight. 

 

I am NOT a good putter putter. I 3 putt way too often. I don't know if that is because I have the wrong putter or because I just suck at putting. I do have times when I putt like a god...lol. But those times are far too few.

 

 What type of putter should a straight back/through stroke use?

a SBST stroke would benefit from a face balanced putter. Hand position and eye dominance will determine the amount of offset needed. If you have the hands/ball back in the stance then a centre shaft will suit you. If the hands are forward then offset will work better.

 

no problem with 32" at this length you can go even heavier (360 - 400 grams).

 

Getting the putter back weighted and using a thicker grip will help stabilise your stroke. The question is - when you swing the putter do you want to feel the head swinging or the putter swinging as a whole? My guess is that you want to feel the putter swinging as a whole. You need to enhance the pendulum action and work on a steady rhythm.

[mr_divots]

I forgot all the questions, but I'll get in on this anyway.

 

I use a Rife Aussie putter. It is toe heavy. I believe it is 340 grams. I have a more or less straight back, straight through stroke.

 

I will admit that I bought it because I liked the looks of it, and I made quite a few putts at the golf shop when I tried it out. I purchased it at 33". I have since cut it down to 32.5" I think I would really like it to be 32". I'm 5' 9" and I like the putter to hang naturally, with my arms more or less straight. 

 

I am NOT a good putter putter. I 3 putt way too often. I don't know if that is because I have the wrong putter or because I just suck at putting. I do have times when I putt like a god...lol. But those times are far too few.

 

 What type of putter should a straight back/through stroke use?

Do you happen to have an iphone? Totally recommend the Ping Ap and phone cradle if so. It identifies everything as far as length, lie angle, stroke type. I think the cradle is like $29 if you have the iphone already. I was fit into my specs with this by a Ping fitter and it's worked. I was surprised.

[gentleman mongoose]

Ok, for all of the people who have so far participated I would like to extend my thanks. Hopefully this will go some way to providing helpful information which will ensure that golfers who are lacking such information or are not sure about their putting will benefit in some way.

 

Obviously this is a small response from a group of golfers who are keen and invested. Sadly the golfers who really need help do not seek help (thats why they need it). I would love more information from non invested golfers.

 

The responses so far have revealed some interesting results

 

1, What putter do you use and why? There were a whole range of different putters but the majority are mallet putters (only just) and in general golfers know what fits their stroke arc. The putter you are using has to fit to your conditions, technique, attitude and optical preferences.

 

2, The specs were interesting and very revealing. The average length is 33.5" and the lie angle is 70°. These are the statistics that interest me most. The shorter putters tended to be mallets and the longer putters were blade/anser style. Taking into consideration that every 1/2" equates to 1° dynamic lie angle this means that a standard 34" putter should be 69° lie angle as standard. If you are using a 71° lie angle at 34" then you are in fact 2° upright. I expected the average weight to be heavier as year on year the industry standard weight has increased.

 

3, The average time that a putter has been in the bag is less than 2 years. This reveals that putters have become more disposable. I always maintain that the best putters of all time have had the same putter in the bag virtually their whole lives and would not part with it for any amount. This is a result of serious marketing initiatives by large corporations who benefit from you changing your putter more often. Boutique putter makers such as LaMont Mann and Byron Morgan are an antidote to this mass market, throwaway culture. Rant over.

 

4, Most of you commit to something and have worked hard to improve performance. Aimpoint is a great initiative and SAMLAB is a superb analysis tool. Having a putting mat at home is the best solution ever (as long as you practise every day and do not get too drunk).

 

5, The average rating you gave yourselves is 6.3. This is all subjective as it is all personal perspective. The slightly lower rating could be due to any number of factors. I recommend a realistic analysis of your game according to statistical information gathered from data in competition. To do this you will need to read 'Every shot counts' by Mark Broadie.

 

I would love your feedback on this and if possible more responses to the original questions. 

 

Stuart Burley

Burley Golf Development

[Clemsonfan]

I am fascinated by putting and studies like this, and appreciate you sharing your insights. I am a blade user, but prefer a mid-mallet shape. Sight lines and high MOI tend to make me lead with the heel which doesn't work well with my stroke which is slightly tilted to the right.

 

Curious about what your thoughts are around weight and offset, and what you see with your studies. Furthermore, I am often amazed when pros switch, particularly to putters that are opposite what they have used, like Jim Furyk using the $39 Yes blade at the Tour Campionship several years ago, when he has favored a face balanced mallet.

 

Thanks!