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Calling BS


revkev

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We've all made allusions to the Hot lists published by the two major golf publications.  In the end it is difficult to see them as anything but shills for the large OEMs.  I spent some time last night culling through the testers list for Golf.  I don't know any of those folks and certainly don't want to cast aspersions on them but the numbers that are provided as averages don't compute for me.

 

For starters there are very few launch angles above 14, in fact very few above 13 and the highest is 15.9.  If these are avid enough golfers to be involved in a test like this shouldn't they be better fit?  Perhaps the numbers came from the test itself and so they had to hit lots of head/shaft combos that weren't right.  Regardless it seemed to me that anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of physics could quickly improve their driving significantly with better fitting equipment.

 

My big BS claim though is the ball flight listed.  26 of the 40, 26/40, 13/20, 65% have some sort of draw listed as their ball flight.  Be real, the only time that you find 65% of a field of amateurs hitting draws is in the championship flight of a club championship.

 

I play regularly with a large group of golfers - zero of them come to mind as players who are able to consistently hit a draw - some have a very, very nice straight ball (modern equipment) but everyone remarks when they see my draw - even when I take lessons my pro goes - "Oh yeah my one student who I don't have to work hard with to get a draw." 

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Very good observation Rev.  I also peruse the staff of the "SH$#List" to see what their age, occupation & Handicaps are.  I never seem to find someone similar to me.....average joe weekly golfer.

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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You're more observant than I, Rev.  I've never looked closely enough at the testers "bio's" to notice the draw bias.

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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Rev, so you're saying that anyone that has a fade (read slice) should look elsewhere for driver recommendations?  Just another reason to hold out for the MGS Most Wanted!!

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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This is one thing I've had to plead with some OEM's for years when doing reviews. I try to explain to them that sending me whatever stock club they have won't necessarily FIT me. All they want to know is loft and shaft flex. I had a lot of clubs over the years I pulled the stock shaft and got into something that would actually give the head a chance to perform on my own dime. It wouldn't have been fair otherwise. I would have been reviewing a shaft essentially that was all wrong for me. What good is that?

 

I thank Golf Digest in some ways, as they were my inspiration for doing my own thing in response to their advertising dollars parade. I really have wondered about the fit of these clubs for many years myself with these hot lists. Especially iron testing and wedge testing.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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I never paid much attention to these big name reviews as I assume there is a money influence. But it's interesting that you noticed this.

 Ping G410 LST 10.5 set -1* Flat Accra TZ5 65 M5

Callaway Epic Flash 15* set -1 Aldila ATX Blue 75TX

Ben Hogan FT Worth Hi 19* KBS Tour V X

Ben Hogan PTX Pro 4-P KBS Tour V X 2* Flat 4* loft increments

Hogan Equalizer 50* KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 X 2* Flat

Hogan Equalizer 56* KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 2* Flat

Hogan Equalizer 62* KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 2* Flat

EVNROLL ER7 P2 Aware Tour
Scotty Cameron Newport2 Buttonback P2 Aware Tour Grip
Snell MTB-X

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I never paid much attention to these big name reviews as I assume there is a money influence. But it's interesting that you noticed this.

 

 

Same. Before I knew better and discovered this site, I went strictly with what was posted from these sites. MyGolfSpy opened my eyes to try anything, doesn't have to be from the big boys, which I did and now my bag has all sorts of things in it. Before, it was 14 clubs, 1 name lol

DRIVER:   :taylormade-small: Stealth 2, 9* Upright setting, Mitsubishi Kai' Li red, 60g Stiff flex, New grip coming

Woods:   image.png.b032bfa6bceb3d86677e537bac666ed6.png Sim Max 3 Wood, 15*, Fujikura Ventus 6 Blue 65g, Stiff flex, New grip coming

HYBRIDS:   :mizuno-small:    JPX 850 hybrid 19*, UST Proforce V2 85g, Stiff, New grip coming                                  

IRONS:      image.png.e097bd129e11b5c3535389554504a9e8.png    MP-20 HMB 4 iron, Project X LZ 6.5 shaft, Stiff+, Ping Midsize grip

                              JPX 919 Tour 5i-pw, Project X LZ 6.5 shafts, Stiff+,  Ping Midsize grips

WEDGES:    New Level Golf   50*, 55*, 60* M-Type Wedges with True Temper Elevate Tour X-Stiff flex,                                               New Level Midsize grips

PUTTER:    :ping-small:   Heppler Ketsch 35", Ping PP62 Pistol Grip

BALL:           :titleist-small:     Pro V1 (2021 + 2023 Versions)                                                                              
                  
BAG:       image.png.21a67eec796936e08fafc83a822b0d7f.png  TM19 Select Plus Cart Bag 
 
Shoes:  Under Armour     HOVR Fade 2 SL Spikeless  Shoes

Tech: :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro Slope golf laser Rangefinder

          Frogger Golf Towels, 4 more Yard blue/ yellow golf tees

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That's some good digging.   I confess I never bothered to look at the testers' deep info before since I dismissed the whole damn test as irrelevant marketing PR from the outset.  They're probably just self reporting the numbers that they "think" they should be reporting.  

 

In my recent testing for the Paderson, I had several shafts and heads give me balloon high launchs around 20 with spins in the high 3000s.   In other words, a horrible fit.   These could be tamed, I'm sure -- after a 45 minute search PER CLUB for the setting and shaft combo that would most favor that head.    I just can't believe that these testers are able to do that for each club.   In fact, I can't believe that our own MGS test is able to do that with our test.   

 

As a result, most stock head & shaft combo's are going to crash and burn when compared to our highly tweaked custom set ups that we've compiled over the weeks and months.  Were I to be such a tester, about the best results I could report would be to separate 3 or 4 clubs from the crowd and say, "I think with work these happy few have potential to be something, the rest aren't worth fretting over."

bag - SunMountain Synch with Ogio Synergy X4 cart
driver - :callaway-small: Optiforce 440, Paderson Kevlar Green stiff 46.5"
fwoods - :taylormade-small: Jetspeed, 3HL regular
irons - :taylormade-small:  Speedblades 3-8, 85g stiff steel, 2 up
wedges - :edilon-small: Scor 40, 45, 50, 54, 58
putter - :ping-small: Ketsch 35" slight arc, SuperStroke 2.0 mid-slim
ball - :titelist-small: ProV1x

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I agree that these had to be self reported numbers.  There's a guy on there who lists himself as a 2 and has a launch of 8.1 and an average drive of 282.  A 2, not properly fit?  Not likely and not likely that you are going to hit the ball 282 with a launch angle of 8 unless you are playing all of your golf on a runway.

 

Here's another remarkable thing - all of the listed spin rates are very low - I think there is only one over 3,000.  You know that's fooey!  High right and curving that way all the more is the order of the day for the majority of golfers.  Regardless of launch spin rates are almost always too high - they are a struggle for almost all of us.  Yet this tidy group of golfers with terrible launch angles has incredibly good spin rates.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I generally don't comment on how the testing is conducted or any of that stuff. Everyone has a business model. That's true for all of us.

 

My understanding is that most others testing only +/- 9.5 or 10.5 degree heads. Golf magazine tests the middle of the loft for any given club, which can lead to apples to bananas comparisons. 

 

Regarding launch numbers...it's next to impossible to get most people close to idea...especially when you're limited to stock options. Stock is designed to fit the middle of the bell curve (within the target market). Most of the time the target market is everybody, and that leaves a lot of us outside the curve.

 

But again, individual ideals are seldom reality. Guys deliver the club any number of ways (up, down, inside, outside...the permutations are endless). You can NEVER discount numbers because they don't look right.

 

We try and get the most out of the equipment we have at our disposal (multiple lofts, multiple flexes, and where available as stock, multiple shafts), but that still seldom gets us close to ideal.

 

Here's a bit of an average line from our test for you: 

Launch: 7.8

Spin: 2475

Carry: 283.2

Total: 303.1

 

Ideal is seldom best achievable. Same guy...

 

8.6

2111.3

283.4/305

 

By the way...he's a 2.something in the PGA program who routinely shoots even or better on one of the toughest golf courses in the area.

 

Conventional wisdom says give him more loft...what it doesn't tell you is that he's already lofted as high as he can go playing the softest shaft he can control with regularity, and whatever weights are available have been placed in either the rear or heel positions.

 

The numbers are what they are, and sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. This as good as he's going to get with that club.

 

Here's another tester...same club:

11.7

5107.8

178.7/189.3

 

This is a guy who plays a VERY consistent pull fade. I could fight the spin with loft, but what the numbers don't tell you is that while this configuration may short him a few yards (his swing is the limiting factor, not the club), he's hitting balls literally on top of one another, and more often that not, is less than 10 yards off the center line. He's also playing a 9° head.

 

I'd also add that for most golfers I don't want to go above 14. If I can get to 15...16...17, it has to be without excess spin. TaylorMade's numbers (17/1700) work for distance, but almost nobody can actually get there (and you're paying a forgiveness cost to get there). Most of the rest of the industry likes 14/2100...I can get some guys close to that in some heads, but it's still a long way from a majority.

 

As for ball flight, we actually see a slight fade bias...maybe 60/40. The higher HCP guys tend to hit fades. Oddly it's the guys 5-10 who play consistent draws. The sub-5 guys...most of them can move it whatever way the want. That too can make it tough to test because they always want to 'try different things'.

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lol - I've always looking at the GD testing panel and thought to myself, "like I'm interested in your opinion anyway". I doubt that the majority of the test panel could muster up some sort of draw either, but here we are hanging on their every word in what makes something "hot".

I call BS too - but over half of the industry is driven by it anyway.

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Going back to T that's helpful in one regard.  But overall I'd expect that for every outrageously low launch low spin number I'd expect to see an offset like the one that you produced and I'd expect more - the more higher handicappers involved the more I'd expect to see the high spin and fade bias surface.  Your 40/60 seems about right there's is 65/35 draw - I don't buy it.

Additionally they aren't clear as to where the numbers are coming from.  I'm assuming these are the numbers generated from the testing but I could be wrong.  It would be nice to know up front who did what with what and for that matter what the base line might be with current equipment.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I agree that these had to be self reported numbers.  There's a guy on there who lists himself as a 2 and has a launch of 8.1 and an average drive of 282.  A 2, not properly fit?  Not likely and not likely that you are going to hit the ball 282 with a launch angle of 8 unless you are playing all of your golf on a runway.

 

Here's another remarkable thing - all of the listed spin rates are very low - I think there is only one over 3,000.  You know that's fooey!  High right and curving that way all the more is the order of the day for the majority of golfers.  Regardless of launch spin rates are almost always too high - they are a struggle for almost all of us.  Yet this tidy group of golfers with terrible launch angles has incredibly good spin rates.

 

Is this because of higher spinning balls being produced to compensate for the club groove rule change?  Seriously, I don't remember OEMs specifically designing and marketing low spin drivers in the past and now almost every one has a "LS" model.  Or is some other factor driving the creation of these beasts?

What's in the Bag:

Driver: TaylorMade SLDR 10.5 (set to 11.5), Kuro Kage Aftermarket Only Blue 60S, NDMC+4

Fairway: Callaway Big Berth Alpha 815 14 (set to +2,N), Speeder 665 Stiff, NDMC

Hybrid: Adams XTD-ti 20 (set to 19.5), Matrix hQ3 Red Tie Stiff

Irons: Mizuno JPX 825 Pro 4-GW, KBS Tour Stiff, 1* flat, Blue PURE DTX

Wedges: Mizuno MP-T11, 56/13 & 60/5, DG Spinner, Blue PURE DTX

Putter: Bettinardi Studio Stock 15, 34", 5* loft, 2* flat, SuperStroke Slim LITE 3.0 

Bag: Mizuno Aerolite SPR stand bag

Ball: Wilson Staff Duo Urethane (summer), Srixon Q-STAR Yellow (winter)

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Or is some other factor driving the creation of these beasts?

Launch monitors. Everyone thinks the lower the spin, the better, so they've created such drivers in response.

 

It's kind of like government crash test ratings for vehicles. They build the vehicles around the test, rather than building what is truly safer or more sound. OEM's have built around the myth that low spin is all things for all people. Its not. Low spin is pretty hard to play, really. Pros can do it. Ams keep searching for the right new toy. It's a bit of planned obsolescense in a way. Keep the consumer confused and searching when nothing new can be built due to rules constratints. I mean, aerodynaics for instance. They did that 6-7 years ago already Its back and all new again? Whatever....

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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I was just looking at this:

testresutls.jpg

 

Tests like this, unless they re-shafted every single one of these to the same specs, are neigh useless.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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I haven't see the ahead GD hot list, I will say for my own game that spin matters a great deal, if I hat a driver with a spin rate of 3000, the ball doesn't go anywhere, but if I can get that spin rate under 2500, the ball goes much farther. I do find it odd that non of the testers had spin rates over 3000, since almost all the drivers that I have tested have produced those number well above 3000.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I was just looking at this:

testresutls.jpg

 

Tests like this, unless they re-shafted every single one of these to the same specs, are neigh useless.

 

Re-shafting to use the same shaft and exactly the same specs in all the clubs? Do we need to accomodate testing to the 0,3% that don't buy standard equipment?

 

Regular golfers only buy standard clubs and only care about standard shafts performance. Testing standard specs is highly relevant. When we test clubs we let our readers know that they need fitting to get what's best for them, but we also declare a winner with standard specs. The most important job is to define what type of club it is. Who is it aimed at?

 

0,3% is a number I can't defend if someone disagrees :D I'm pretty sure it isn't a lot higher though.

 

You don't test golf clubs to find the perfect club for that specific player/tester. You test them to find out what type of product/club it is.

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I generally don't comment on how the testing is conducted or any of that stuff. Everyone has a business model. That's true for all of us.

 

My understanding is that most others testing only +/- 9.5 or 10.5 degree heads. Golf magazine tests the middle of the loft for any given club, which can lead to apples to bananas comparisons. 

 

Regarding launch numbers...it's next to impossible to get most people close to idea...especially when you're limited to stock options. Stock is designed to fit the middle of the bell curve (within the target market). Most of the time the target market is everybody, and that leaves a lot of us outside the curve.

 

But again, individual ideals are seldom reality. Guys deliver the club any number of ways (up, down, inside, outside...the permutations are endless). You can NEVER discount numbers because they don't look right.

 

We try and get the most out of the equipment we have at our disposal (multiple lofts, multiple flexes, and where available as stock, multiple shafts), but that still seldom gets us close to ideal.

 

Here's a bit of an average line from our test for you: 

Launch: 7.8

Spin: 2475

Carry: 283.2

Total: 303.1

 

Ideal is seldom best achievable. Same guy...

 

8.6

2111.3

283.4/305

 

By the way...he's a 2.something in the PGA program who routinely shoots even or better on one of the toughest golf courses in the area.

 

Conventional wisdom says give him more loft...what it doesn't tell you is that he's already lofted as high as he can go playing the softest shaft he can control with regularity, and whatever weights are available have been placed in either the rear or heel positions.

 

The numbers are what they are, and sometimes there's nothing you can do about it. This as good as he's going to get with that club.

 

Here's another tester...same club:

11.7

5107.8

178.7/189.3

 

This is a guy who plays a VERY consistent pull fade. I could fight the spin with loft, but what the numbers don't tell you is that while this configuration may short him a few yards (his swing is the limiting factor, not the club), he's hitting balls literally on top of one another, and more often that not, is less than 10 yards off the center line. He's also playing a 9° head.

 

I'd also add that for most golfers I don't want to go above 14. If I can get to 15...16...17, it has to be without excess spin. TaylorMade's numbers (17/1700) work for distance, but almost nobody can actually get there (and you're paying a forgiveness cost to get there). Most of the rest of the industry likes 14/2100...I can get some guys close to that in some heads, but it's still a long way from a majority.

 

As for ball flight, we actually see a slight fade bias...maybe 60/40. The higher HCP guys tend to hit fades. Oddly it's the guys 5-10 who play consistent draws. The sub-5 guys...most of them can move it whatever way the want. That too can make it tough to test because they always want to 'try different things'.

What I've noticed most often is that the good golfer will consciously make a swing change if he doesn't like the ball flight of the driver you have given him. I play a 12* R11s. Love it. When I hit something else that is lower lofted, I will absolutely change the AoA to make the ballflight look better to my eye. It's not the right thing to do. It is actually harmful to the fit. But almost every 2 hdcp or better that I fit does it.

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I actually know one of the testers out of these magazines. He's the father in law of my friend. He says the testing process is not very scientific and its basically a glorified demo day. Of course these magazines are in bed with the OEMs. How do you think they really generate revenue. Look through GD or Golf magazine and you'll see they are made up of 70% ads and 30% content. 

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I actually know one of the testers out of these magazines. He's the father in law of my friend. He says the testing process is not very scientific and its basically a glorified demo day. Of course these magazines are in bed with the OEMs. How do you think they really generate revenue? Look through GD or Golf magazine and you'll see they are made up of 70% ads and 30% content. 

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What I've noticed most often is that the good golfer will consciously make a swing change if he doesn't like the ball flight of the driver you have given him. I play a 12* R11s. Love it. When I hit something else that is lower lofted, I will absolutely change the AoA to make the ballflight look better to my eye. It's not the right thing to do. It is actually harmful to the fit. But almost every 2 hdcp or better that I fit does it.

 

When we're testing, the lower handicap golfers are a blessing and a curse. They're nice to have because they're efficient (12 shots to get 10 with most clubs), but you have to stay on top of them to keep their egos from introducing skew.

 

One of the first days, we had a 4.something HCP in...he's 2/3 of the way through the session...hitting nothing but 2 yard butter cuts all morning and then suddenly decides he wants to start drawing the ball. Took me 10 minutes to get him to understand that we were looking for consistency of process and not anybody's personal quest for 3 more yards.

 

Of course, I also have a +1 collegiate golfer who I just watched pound 63 shots in a session where the minimum number of shots would have been 60. The 3 I threw out would have been keepers for just about all of us.

MyGolfSpy is only major golf site that refuses advertising from large golf companies. With your support we can keep it that way. Donate Today
 


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What I've noticed most often is that the good golfer will consciously make a swing change if he doesn't like the ball flight of the driver you have given him. I play a 12* R11s. Love it. When I hit something else that is lower lofted, I will absolutely change the AoA to make the ballflight look better to my eye. It's not the right thing to do. It is actually harmful to the fit. But almost every 2 hdcp or better that I fit does it.

I'm not the "good golfer" you're referring to, but have discussed with my fitter and others that have noticed it, that I always try to "adjust my swing" to whatever club is in my hands at the time.

 

It can make it difficult to really determine what the best fit really is...

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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What I've noticed most often is that the good golfer will consciously make a swing change if he doesn't like the ball flight of the driver you have given him. I play a 12* R11s. Love it. When I hit something else that is lower lofted, I will absolutely change the AoA to make the ballflight look better to my eye. It's not the right thing to do. It is actually harmful to the fit. But almost every 2 hdcp or better that I fit does it.

I'm not the "good golfer" you're referring to, but have discussed with my fitter and others that have noticed it, that I always try to "adjust my swing" to whatever club is in my hands at the time.

 

It can make it difficult to really determine what the best fit really is...

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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I was just looking at this:

testresutls.jpg

 

Tests like this, unless they re-shafted every single one of these to the same specs, are neigh useless.

 

 

I don't know about re-shafting bit. I've personally talked to about 15 different R&D guys (including guys at every major OEM) on the subject, and they all say the same thing...

 

With robot testing the shaft is irrelevant. Change the flex, change the shaft, put in a steel rod (which is what Wishon does) and nothing changes. Robots don't load, unload, torque, etc. the way humans do. I mean stuff like this I suppose is a great marketing tool, but c'mon...at least level the lofts if you're going to do it this way.

MyGolfSpy is only major golf site that refuses advertising from large golf companies. With your support we can keep it that way. Donate Today
 


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I'm not the "good golfer" you're referring to, but have discussed with my fitter and others that have noticed it, that I always try to "adjust my swing" to whatever club is in my hands at the time.

 

It can make it difficult to really determine what the best fit really is...

I think this is pretty common. I know that if I hit a club and don't like what I'm seeing I'll try to change my delivery so that I like what I'm seeing. More so with eBay or off the rack purchases. I think the important factor in a fitting is recognizing that you're trying to change your delivery and the more difficult task of trying not to.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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I'm not the "good golfer" you're referring to, but have discussed with my fitter and others that have noticed it, that I always try to "adjust my swing" to whatever club is in my hands at the time.

 

It can make it difficult to really determine what the best fit really is...

When I was fitted last year at the kingdom the first thing I told myself was not to look at what they were giving me. Just swing.

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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I don't know about re-shafting bit. I've personally talked to about 15 different R&D guys (including guys at every major OEM) on the subject, and they all say the same thing...

 

With robot testing the shaft is irrelevant. Change the flex, change the shaft, put in a steel rod (which is what Wishon does) and nothing changes. Robots don't load, unload, torque, etc. the way humans do. I mean stuff like this I suppose is a great marketing tool, but c'mon...at least level the lofts if you're going to do it this way.

In this example, the swing speed is 110. Is that with 3W? If so, their head/shaft, when swung by that robot at that speed was longest. I like the idea of testing getting down to very similar specs for a truer comparison of say what a head is capable of. I agree that at least similar lofted heads should be used, and this low/forward cg beta model of TEE's isn't the best apples to apples with some of the others. But marketing is fun.

 

The argument about only testing for .3% of players would be accurate in this instance too; as how many weekend warriors are swinging 110MPH 3w's? Probably about 1%. So for that player/robot, its longest. That's fine.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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Don't know Mr Divots, I'm guessing these numbers were reached using clubs off the rack. It was a robot testing so the hitter wad the same.

DRIVER:   :taylormade-small: Stealth 2, 9* Upright setting, Mitsubishi Kai' Li red, 60g Stiff flex, New grip coming

Woods:   image.png.b032bfa6bceb3d86677e537bac666ed6.png Sim Max 3 Wood, 15*, Fujikura Ventus 6 Blue 65g, Stiff flex, New grip coming

HYBRIDS:   :mizuno-small:    JPX 850 hybrid 19*, UST Proforce V2 85g, Stiff, New grip coming                                  

IRONS:      image.png.e097bd129e11b5c3535389554504a9e8.png    MP-20 HMB 4 iron, Project X LZ 6.5 shaft, Stiff+, Ping Midsize grip

                              JPX 919 Tour 5i-pw, Project X LZ 6.5 shafts, Stiff+,  Ping Midsize grips

WEDGES:    New Level Golf   50*, 55*, 60* M-Type Wedges with True Temper Elevate Tour X-Stiff flex,                                               New Level Midsize grips

PUTTER:    :ping-small:   Heppler Ketsch 35", Ping PP62 Pistol Grip

BALL:           :titleist-small:     Pro V1 (2021 + 2023 Versions)                                                                              
                  
BAG:       image.png.21a67eec796936e08fafc83a822b0d7f.png  TM19 Select Plus Cart Bag 
 
Shoes:  Under Armour     HOVR Fade 2 SL Spikeless  Shoes

Tech: :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro Slope golf laser Rangefinder

          Frogger Golf Towels, 4 more Yard blue/ yellow golf tees

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Exactly what is a good golfer? I think I'm an above average golfer in scoring. I usually score anywhere from mid 80's to high 70's . Good golfers don't necessarily have to shoot low scores... do they?

Yes they do, the person who shoots the lowest scores is the best golfer. There are several categories within the score that one may be better or worse at, ball striking, distance, accuracy, putting, etc. but the lower the scores the better the golfer. :)

 

Back to something that Craig and T were discussing I'm in that camp. If you give me a driver I will try and make it fit my eye and can normally do so after a while. I want high draws and I will get them by golly. I do think that's true of all better players, what we do has worked and we are very reluctant to change even if we say we are willing to, even if we need to in order to get better for that matter.

 

@MtTheoo my best fitting ever was at the tour performance center. I was suited up like for an EKG, given a club (everyone ther gets the same drone) to hit into a screen. I couldn't even see where the ball was impacting the screen honestly. I saw no numbers, nothing really so there was no adjusting to skew numbers. I know we threw one shot out but other than that the info that was spit out at the end accurately reflected my swing, that day. From there I had a recommended club in hand on the range. I tried to follow your policy but unless you are blind folding me I'm going after the high draw. Here's the sad reality of that. My longer shots generally speaking are lower and more piercing than what my eye envisions!

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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