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Calling BS


revkev

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Don't know Mr Divots, I'm guessing these numbers were reached using clubs off the rack. It was a robot testing so the hitter was the same.

Correct, but that is my point. Each stock shaft will have its own specs, and it will influence the launch and spin rate. The swing speed is pretty high, so that "robot golfer" isn't really doing anything but identifying the longest stock setup at a given high swing speed. When you look at the numbers, some are close on the spin rate, but its obvious the lowest spin setup won this TEE comparison. And the shaft, CG placement, and loft all have influence.

With the same shaft and loft, I'd like to see it repeated and preferably up against other low/forward CG heads to make it a true comparison. I'm saying one can rig the outcome however they like, and they did. It's just marketing. I like to pick it apart a bit.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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Yes they do, the person who shoots the lowest scores is the best golfer. There are several categories within the score that one may be better or worse at, ball striking, distance, accuracy, putting, etc. but the lower the scores the better the golfer.  :)

 

Agreed. The lower the score, the "better" the player/golfer.

 

I consider a "good" golfer one that respects the golf course and those that he is playing with and around. The good golfer replaces his divots. He/she fixes ball marks on the greens. The good golfer isn't a distraction to others while playing. The good golfer doesn't spend 15 minutes looking for a lost ball. The good golfer plays at a reasonable pace instead of getting  belligerent with the people behind him/her for asking him/her to play through.

 

Those things have nothing to do with scoring or who is the more accomplished player. I'll choose to play with a "good" golfer any day over the "better" golfer.... unless that golfer is both.

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I don't know Silver and Black seems like mincing words to me - good golfer refers to playing ability anywhere that I've ever been but perhaps there is a regional difference - I've lived in the Northeast, Midwest, Southeast and played extensively in the Southwest so there are places that I haven't been. 

 

I would hope that any golfer who's played for a time would do the things that you are talking about all of which are in the rule book, one of which is a penalty - you are only allowed 5 minutes to search for a lost ball under the rules. 

 

It's pretty rare that the folks I play with don't fit the profile you are describing regardless of ability.  The exception would be my Middle School golf team but it's my job to teach them those things, I do.  My guess and assumption would be that anyone who takes the time to be a part of a group like MGS does these things.  Certainly everyone that I've played with from this site has.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I know, Rev. I was just taking a little liberty with the whole thing.  :) I respect all of you guys on here. You are far more knowledgeable than I, about the game. I can only hope to be as "good" as you and others on here, someday. ;)

 

Unfortunately, I do encounter the things I mentioned all too frequently on a number of the courses I play. I never meant to insinuate that anyone from MGS would act that way. If that is how any of you took it, I sincerely apologize to you.

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No didn't take it that way at all -

 

I honestly felt bad for you because I assumed you were encountering it if you were mentioning it.  It happens so infrequently here that I remember the last time I had any of that (beyond my kids and they are excused.)  It was seven years ago and I haven't been back to that course yet.

 

The big issue here for slow play is wrong choice of tees (very frequent this time of the year) and the most frequent etiquette failure is the raking of fairway traps - this is really a pain when I'm playing in league because we are playing it down.  Some of our fairway traps aren't so bad to be in and while I'm not aiming for those I'm not afraid to take them on - It's sad when you get in one, assume you have a shot from the tee only to be in a foot print from 165. :(

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I know I am in the minority on this, but here goes.  I view the hot list and other lists (even the MyGolfSpy) as just more information when I decide to get new equipment.  I am not looking at the list to make any final decisions based on other folks.  

 

I don't play the same driver as Rory or Dustin or really care what club they play, because I know my needs are not their needs.  I never understand people buying clubs because Tiger play's it, but maybe that's what they like.  So be it.

 

I think calling Golf Digest's test BS is a disservice.  It is a test.  It is not an ideal test.  As soon as a person see's the brand name, I suspect the testers are "biased" in some way from name and advertising.  This occurs in the MyGolfspy test too.  I would prefer if GD listed each tester's comments and each tester's rankings and let us decide Gold/silver, etc... from the folks that may match our profile, but like I said, it is just info that I can use.  I am looking for some indication of mis-hit friendliness and liveliness, but others may be looking for spin or low spin. 

 

Ultimately, in today's golf world.  One has to try multiple brands and multiple shafts to find a match for them.  I play a high end shaft and I suspect that if I put that shaft in similar heads across the OEM's, I would see comparable performance.  I love the shaft I play that much.  

 

Choosing a driver based on other people's swings would be a flat out mistake.

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I'm calling the listed numbers beside each tester BS Fezzler - not the test - the test is what it is and I agree with you - all of these tests are starting points.  The test is a for what its worth sort of thing - I find little value in these because they give no data what so ever but they do offer some sort of feed back.

 

Here's the BS that I'm calling - I don't buy that there is a group of 40 testers with a 65/35 draw/fade bias when half of the testers are 10 or above.  I would like a bit more information before buying into those numbers - did the numbers come from the test or from the tester hitting his own driver prior to the test or simply as word of mouth from the tester.  To me that's BS given the numbers don't make sense.

 

Now if you want to still say it's not fair to call those numbers BS after my rationale by all means call me out - but call me out for the intent of the thread. :)

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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13*/2500 that's the magic number that's actually attainable for most... 17/1700 is next to impossible for about 99% of the average out there.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Happy birthday Rookie, is it today or tomorrow?

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Happy birthday Rookie, is it today or tomorrow?

Happy Birthday Rookie, belated or otherwise ;)

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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I'm calling the listed numbers beside each tester BS Fezzler - not the test - the test is what it is and I agree with you - all of these tests are starting points.  The test is a for what its worth sort of thing - I find little value in these because they give no data what so ever but they do offer some sort of feed back.

 

Here's the BS that I'm calling - I don't buy that there is a group of 40 testers with a 65/35 draw/fade bias when half of the testers are 10 or above.  I would like a bit more information before buying into those numbers - did the numbers come from the test or from the tester hitting his own driver prior to the test or simply as word of mouth from the tester.  To me that's BS given the numbers don't make sense.

 

Now if you want to still say it's not fair to call those numbers BS after my rationale by all means call me out - but call me out for the intent of the thread. :)

 

 

Maybe they were all given draw biased drivers ;) lol

DRIVER:   :taylormade-small: Stealth 2, 9* Upright setting, Mitsubishi Kai' Li red, 60g Stiff flex, New grip coming

Woods:   image.png.b032bfa6bceb3d86677e537bac666ed6.png Sim Max 3 Wood, 15*, Fujikura Ventus 6 Blue 65g, Stiff flex, New grip coming

HYBRIDS:   :mizuno-small:    JPX 850 hybrid 19*, UST Proforce V2 85g, Stiff, New grip coming                                  

IRONS:      image.png.e097bd129e11b5c3535389554504a9e8.png    MP-20 HMB 4 iron, Project X LZ 6.5 shaft, Stiff+, Ping Midsize grip

                              JPX 919 Tour 5i-pw, Project X LZ 6.5 shafts, Stiff+,  Ping Midsize grips

WEDGES:    New Level Golf   50*, 55*, 60* M-Type Wedges with True Temper Elevate Tour X-Stiff flex,                                               New Level Midsize grips

PUTTER:    :ping-small:   Heppler Ketsch 35", Ping PP62 Pistol Grip

BALL:           :titleist-small:     Pro V1 (2021 + 2023 Versions)                                                                              
                  
BAG:       image.png.21a67eec796936e08fafc83a822b0d7f.png  TM19 Select Plus Cart Bag 
 
Shoes:  Under Armour     HOVR Fade 2 SL Spikeless  Shoes

Tech: :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro Slope golf laser Rangefinder

          Frogger Golf Towels, 4 more Yard blue/ yellow golf tees

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If you call a "draw" an over the top cast that hooks, yes, many people are all too familiar with this shot outcome.

Numbers can look a helluva lot prettier than the actual shot/swing in this sense.

 

And over-swinging or just being plain tired is awesome for hooks. Or ill-fitting equipment. After they've hit a zillion balls for these tests, the swing has to start breaking down somewhat. Like going to a LM and banging 75 driver shots. You'd hit 14 drivers in a round usually. You're beat before you're halfway through and it does skew numbers.

"Glute Activator"

 

*Please accept my contributions of participation and intellectual property sharing as substitute for monetary renumeration.

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If you call a "draw" an over the top cast that hooks, yes, many people are all too familiar with this shot outcome.

Numbers can look a helluva lot prettier than the actual shot/swing in this sense.

 

And over-swinging or just being plain tired is awesome for hooks. Or ill-fitting equipment. After they've hit a zillion balls for these tests, the swing has to start breaking down somewhat. Like going to a LM and banging 75 driver shots. You'd hit 14 drivers in a round usually. You're beat before you're halfway through and it does skew numbers.

I could buy that explanation.

 

Here's the thing, their test has potential. 40 testers, if you gave each testers result with each driver it would give a starting point. I just looked at the test again, it does almost nothing beyond what I could learn from each OEMs website.

 

Regardless knowing where the numbers come from under each golfer would be helpful. In fact knowing the players normal numbers with their gamer and then in the test would be helpful too.

 

I'm going to start a thread on LM sessions based on Mr Divot's comments.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Agreed. The lower the score, the "better" the player/golfer.

 

I consider a "good" golfer one that respects the golf course and those that he is playing with and around. The good golfer replaces his divots. He/she fixes ball marks on the greens. The good golfer isn't a distraction to others while playing. The good golfer doesn't spend 15 minutes looking for a lost ball. The good golfer plays at a reasonable pace instead of getting  belligerent with the people behind him/her for asking him/her to play through.

 

Those things have nothing to do with scoring or who is the more accomplished player. I'll choose to play with a "good" golfer any day over the "better" golfer.... unless that golfer is both.

So, what's your definition of a good basketball player?

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that's my biggest issue with these testers. Where's the guy whose younger and just starting and a 20 handicap with a mean slice? 

 

Or the guy whose 75 and hits it 150 but dead straight.

 

Look I get they are going for a crossection but honestly, I've looked over some of their guys and none come close to what we all see as normal. 

 

I know I'm an anomaly, I hit everything with a draw. A legit draw that can turn into a hook when I'm really off. And yes I'm a double digit. I've never seen another golfer like me.

 Driver:   :callaway-small:  Epic Flash 12 Degree

Wood: :callaway-small:  GBB 3 Wood
Hybrid: :callaway-small: Razr 4 hybriid stiff stock shaft.
Irons: :callaway-small: X2 Hot 4 iron (pro version) 5 iron - Gap Wedge (non pro version).  KBS 120g Shaft stiff cut 1/2  inch bent 1°upright
Wedges: :vokey-small: 52° 56° and 60°.
All grips are Golf pride grips midsized
Putter (lefty):  Odyssey Metal-X #8 34", stock shaft bent 2° Superstroke grip
Golf Balls:   :titelist-small: 2018-9 Pro-V1x and Prov1s
Shoes:  :footjoy-small:  Dryjoy tours

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I'm not going to push Silver and Black on this one - I get where he's coming from - it's very frustrating to get stuck behind folks who exhibit poor etiquette.

 

If it's hoops I want the guy on my team who blocks shots, gets rebounds and drains the 3 - I'll take LeBron please and I won't even begin to worry about his personal life - that's his problem so long as he shows up to play.

 

@ Sportsfan the more I think about the magazine test the more I realize that it's absolutely useless.  There is nothing there that I can't discover from the OEMs website, there's no data, I don't know who the comments are coming from so they aren't relevant - I mean the clubface is hot from an anonymous tester doesn't help me - was it the guy in his 30's who has a 2, launches it low and hits it 280 or the guy in his 60's who launches it high with too much spin?

 

Occasionally these tests have given us starting points but these don't even really do that.  MGS's test does give a starting point.  Last year's Most Wanted Driver test plus the guys who went out to the Kingdom for the SLDR fitting gave me a starting point. 

 

I then went to 2 demo days armed with the knowledge that for my swing type an SLDR could be a break through.  I actually had to fight with the guy running one of them to let me hit a 12 degree lofted driver and I was lied to (I knew it so no real harm) by the guy running the other demo day when I inquired about shaft length.  Regardless I ended up able to find a driver, at a good price, that gave me a few extra yards and allowed me to hit an additional fairway per round.  I also knew that I had some more wiggle room because I had yet to look at after market shaft options. 

 

Besides being a fun community where we are making friends who share a similar passion for golf we are also learning about equipment here.  How it works, how it might fit our game.  I've never asked an equipment/fitting question that hasn't been answered in a meaningful and useful way within 24 hours.  I have several MGS members whom I can PM with a question so that I can't be BS'd when I go to have a club worked on. 

 

What more can you ask for? 

 

For that reason I just sent in a modest contribution after seeing X's video.  My church is in the midst of a Capital Campaign, I've been making videos like crazy of late - I appreciate the effort that goes into them - BTW x I've gotten to where I can do those things in one take - great job on yours!

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Regarding your original thoughts on this thread, I noted that Host Stix certified each and every participant.  Is it possible that their launch monitors were draw biased?

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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Here's the problem Foz - there's no clear statement as to where the numbers came from - we are assuming they came from the test.

 

Actually I think that Mr. Divot's comment could explain the so called draw phenomena.  When I think about my fade happy friends (I have two of them that I play with regularly - both 20 plus handicappers but plus 3 guys) They always start out the round hitting slices.  Sometimes they will hit the most elegant pull draws, normally about the time there is OB left and I'd imagine that if they were tired that might became the norm.

 

Regardless I started this thread calling BS on the numbers but now I'm wondering what real purpose these tests even serve.  Again I don't find any quantitative information or data that is usable, there's a subjective comment or two, the tech info is off the OEM's website and at the end there's a among the best in its class or some other remark.  How does that benefit anyone who might be looking to purchase a new driver this year?

 

Not at all!

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I totally agree on calling BS.  Before I joined MGS, I read these reviews and tried to compare myself to one or more of the testers, but that's impossible.  I am so glad that we have our alternative.  At least I can look at numbers, make some comparisons, and focus my time on the drivers I want to check out at demo days.  

 

Not saying this is the case, but I have played with people that call a fade a draw.  Don't know if they just misspoke or actually don't know the difference.  Just sayin'

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I like your irons revkev and I play a straight ball, cut and draw....just not always on purpose lol. But yeah the C100s are freaking easy to game. I went with the stock Aldila Rip phenoms though. Did you custom order your shafts and did Wilson put them in or are they aftermaket shafts bro?

Ping K15 10.5° Regular TFC

Maxfli 3 Wood 15° Regular Series 76 tip stiff

Adams A12OS 19° 3 Hybrid Pro Launch Blue Regular

Wilson Staff C-100 4-GW Aldila RIP Phenom xi75 Regular

TMag ATV 54° & 58° Wedges KBS wedge flex

YES Callie-12 C-Groove milled, 35" Winn Jumbo Light grip

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I love the rip phenoms but was curious to see something like the studios or recoils in them. Do you get a better ball flight with the studios and have you tried the rip phenoms??? I love the Aldilas is why I ask and can't imagine there's a better graphite shaft out there that would be better paired with the C100s.

Ping K15 10.5° Regular TFC

Maxfli 3 Wood 15° Regular Series 76 tip stiff

Adams A12OS 19° 3 Hybrid Pro Launch Blue Regular

Wilson Staff C-100 4-GW Aldila RIP Phenom xi75 Regular

TMag ATV 54° & 58° Wedges KBS wedge flex

YES Callie-12 C-Groove milled, 35" Winn Jumbo Light grip

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