Legends, Legacies and Lofts: 5 Questions With Terry Koehler of The Ben Hogan Golf Equipment Company

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

 

It's one of the most talked about equipment introductions of 2015 – the new Ben Hogan irons and wedges made their debut at the 2015 PGA Show. And by all accounts, the new sticks flat out perform.

 

The new iteration of the Ben Hogan Company is the brainchild of Terry Koehler – the founder of Eidelon and SCOR wedges. 

 

“We had lots of electricity around us, driven first by the reintroduction of Mr. Hogan's ideals to the game, the equipment and the business,” says Koehler, who spent time in the 90's as Marketing Director for the original Ben Hogan Company. “We had countless golf professionals, and even industry people, tell us ‘thank you for bringing Ben Hogan back to golf.'” 

 

Koehler describes bringing back the Hogan brand as a “labor of love.” Whether it's moving the Hogan Company back to Fort Worth or bringing back the iconic Hogan signature to the new irons, Koehler has a keen sense of history and the Hogan legacy. That sense of tradition, however, is in sharp contrast to a very non-traditional approach to the new irons and to today's golf market. 

 

Terry shares his goals, ideas and the challenges the new Ben Hogan Company is facing in today's “5 Questions.”

 

 

MGS 5Q's: The new Hogan irons were the buzz of the PGA Show. But why did you decide to go with the non-traditional loft numbering system instead of the traditional iron numbering system?  Are you concerned that might cause some confusion for the golfer while on the course? 

 

Terry Koehler: Let me start with your second question. It's no more confusing than any new set of irons.  Your new lofts will be different than your old ones, so you have to learn a whole new distance chart regardless, but that only takes a few rounds. With our approach, you are simply orienting a distance to a loft number, rather than a ‘6' or ‘8.'

 

As to why we did it, we saw it as the only way to bring real precision back to the irons category.  Haven't the numbers on irons been rendered relatively meaningless to the golfer, when the loft of the ‘six-iron,' for example, in the 2015 product lines range from 34 degrees all the way down to 27, with shaft lengths also varying by an inch or more? 

 

With everyone trying to make the longest hitting six-iron, lofts have been compressed at the long end of the set, and widened at the short end. The ‘typical' set of irons has 4 clubs to cover lofts from 21-30 degrees, and only three from 35-45 degrees. So the golfer – whether a tour pro or recreational player – has less at least twice the distance difference between his short irons as with the longer irons. I cannot find a way to make sense of that, if your goal is to play precision golf. 

 

 

Look at it this way; Mr. Hogan had seven clubs in his bag that went less than 160 yards. The modern tour player has only three or four. But the tour players hit almost 2/3 of their approach shots with an eight iron or less. Our research indicates most recreational players do as well. Why would anyone want only 1/3 of their clubs for 2/3 of their shots?

 

The Ben Hogan Fort Worth 15 irons re-arrange the gaps to be more consistent from club to club, and maybe even tighter as you get close to the green. We essentially cover the range of 20-45 degrees with seven clubs instead of eight, so that you can also put a “true” pitching wedge of 48-51 degrees back in your bag. That club has been lost for decades.

 

MGS 5Q's: Golfers may be reluctant to shell out $150 per club for a set if irons they can't try first – how large is your network of pros/fitters currently?  What does your business model bring to the table for those pros and fitters compared to other brands of irons? What will the fitting process be like?  How does the online “HoganFit” work?

 

TK: You are absolutely right, and we wouldn't expect them to do that. We just launched the new Ben Hogan irons and wedges, and had tremendous interest from the golf professional and retail network.  We are now building that network, but it will take time to get hundreds or thousands of Ben Hogan facilities in place. We ask for a little patience. We will begin shipping demos to our accounts in late March, and will go as fast as we can. If any golfer would like to demo the new Hogans, they can contact us to see where the nearest fitting center is located.

 

As for our fitting model, we're focused on providing the golfer a complete experience, so we will be providing full sets of demos in various shafts to our accounts. We believe a golfer should be able to hit long irons, mid irons, short irons and wedges before they pull the trigger. It is not realistic, in our opinion, that you can hit the six-iron only and know that set of irons is for you. We will also have a fitting system that allows the golfer to determine the shaft, length and lie that fits them best.

 

 

The HoganFit process will provide the golfer with a full bag “map”, or analysis of their current set make-up and its challenges. From data collected by measuring real golfers' actual distances, we can pretty accurately project a yardage chart based on the set make-up and strength profile of the golfer. HoganFit will show them how they can select the correct set of lofts in their new Hogans so that they have consistent gapping from long irons through wedges. This cannot be done without offering every single loft from 20-63 degrees.

 

Our standard choice of shafts is the KBS Tour V for standard weight steel, the KBS Tour 90 for lightweight steel and the UST Mamiya Recoil for graphite. All are available in a range of flexes to allow any golfer to get what they want and need. We will stock and offer most of the popular shafts for custom orders, and will build a set of ‘Hogans' on any shaft a golfer wants through special order. Our focus is on the golfer and taking care of their preferences.

 

 MGS 5Q's: What are your market share goals for 2015? What are your planned product lifecycles?  Will you be changing the line yearly or every other year?  Are you planning to expand into hybrids, FW's and drivers?  Is there a timeframe?

 

TK: We are brand new, so we really don't have any hard goals. We will be ramping up into increasing levels of production capacity as the year goes on. It's already obvious that we will be working hard to keep up with demand, and a reasonable wait is likely in these early months of our introduction.

We don't know how large we can be, but it will be driven by golfers' desire to own the most precise scoring tools ever made, not by some arbitrary market share target or distribution model. Our singular focus is on the golf clubs, and the golfer who is going to play Hogans. 

 

As for product lifecycles, we don't have a plan to replace a product until we can genuinely make it better. Why replace a product that still works better than anything it is up against just because it is a year old? There are millions of golfers out there that want the same things – performance and value.  We will continue to give them just that, and we will only alter or introduce products when we have something better to offer.

 

 

As far as other offerings are concerned, we have many things in development at this time, and will roll out each of these when we have something that we truly believe will outperform the other options in the marketplace. We have no hard timelines. We believe there are many things that can be done in pursuit of the most precise clubs on the market that golfers are not being offered. 

 

In our view, golf is about making the ball go exactly where you want, how you want. The Ben Hogan Company will always be focused on that precision element of the game.

 

MGS 5Q's: On our forum the reaction to Hogan is varied based on age – older guys like me, who remember the Hogan legacy and have actually seen “Follow The Sun,” are VERY excited.  Younger golfers are much less so – what's your battle plan for tackling the two different demographics?

 

TK: This is not about ‘nostalgia', but rather building better golf clubs for those who share our ideals that golf is a game of accuracy.  If you play the game, you want to hit better shots more often.  It doesn't matter how old you are or what your handicap is. ‘Better golf shots more often' – that is the allure of this game.  And we have built the most precise irons and wedges ever. Accurate and forgiving.

 

But actually, we had a lot of interest from younger golfers. That was the only surprise to us, really. The quest for precision knows no age limits. All these young guns are long. The only way to separate yourself from the pack is to be more accurate as well.

 

 

This approach to irons and wedges – not just the lofts, but the entire weighting design – will deliver better accuracy and just as much forgiveness as any clubs on the market. If golfers try them, they will see for themselves that Hogan technology is genuine and real.

 

In the end, it's all about the product. Does it perform as promised and deliver value? We believe the new Hogans do that better than any other.

 

5  MGS 5Q's: How would you describe the opportunity and challenge of bringing the Hogan line back to life? What would Mr. Hogan say about the state of the golf equipment industry today? What would he think of today's marketing? What would he think of the clubs you've created?

 

TK: That is the toughest question you have asked. Mr. Hogan was my childhood idol, and along with my father, the man I looked up to most. In the 1990s, my time at Hogan allowed me to meet people who worked directly for Mr. Hogan, and I learned more about him. Since that time, I've always had a “Hogan wall” in my office, to provide inspiration. So in the summer of 2013, I made the call that changed my whole life, and that of many around me. We have over 130 years of experience on our team of people who worked for Mr. Hogan. We have surrounded ourselves with people who knew him on a personal level so that we could honor his legacy in the most accurate manner.

 

This is not just some “brand” we are dealing with here. This is a real man's legacy. We take that very seriously. The opportunity is enormous, and the challenge rather daunting. Not because of market share or financial gain, but because of who Mr. Hogan was to so many, and to us.

 

The first measure of any and every decision we make is simple. Would it make Mr. Hogan proud? If the answer is yes, then it is probably the right thing to do. 

 

 

As for what Mr. Hogan would think of the industry today? I can only guess, of course, as he's not here. I sure would love to ask him those questions myself.

 

First, I think he would see this strengthening of lofts rather puzzling. To him, it was always about precision, the ability to place the ball where you want it, and get it there in the right manner. How far you can hit a ball with a given club is based on your skill and strength profile. Some people are longer than others. Fine. But that shorter hitter who is in command of his or her ball is a match for anyone.

 

When Mr. Hogan started his company, it was with the simple statement that he thought he could make a better golf club. That drives us as well. So we believe he would be very proud of us for taking this approach to precision, given today's equipment environment. The most flattering comments we receive are those from people who knew him and his equipment, when they say, “Mr. Hogan would be proud.”  If we continue to have that as our goal, we will be just fine.

[revkev]

Nice interview! 

 

Among amateurs the statement about the short hitter in control of his ball is still pretty much true.  Among the guys who play for pay, not so much.  Sadly though many of us struggle with the concept that the way the big boys play the game isn't the best approach for our games.

 

I am very interested to see how Hogan does without pushing distance as a part of its marketing.  Well I hope.

[BIG STU]

I am with Rev on that last paragraph. I actually see a lot of serious amateurs switching to that line. By me saying serious amateurs I mean like college players and the more skilled players like those that would play in a mid am etc. In reality with their offerings on different lofts you could fine tune your irons to fit your game. I am really sure that they will be real selective about their fitting vendors. Actually it is a great concept and the combinations are many. Even though back in the day Hogan clubs except the wedges did not fit my eye they were a quality made product with fine materials and craftsmanship. I know everyone that I have read on here and other blogs that games SCOR wedges really are pumped on them. By what I have read and seen so far it looks like these folks would make Mr Hogan proud. I wish them all the success in the world

[Kenny B]

Nice interview! And I would like to get them a try sometime.

 

It seems to me that it would be very expensive to make each club with a specific loft to such exacting degrees. Do they really do that or do that make, for example a 6 and a 7 lofted clubs, and then stamp whatever lofts between say 30 and 36 that they happen to actually be due to variability?

[xxio]

How are the length differences and the swingweight issues involved solved? 

 

Let's say between a 44 loft and a 45 loft and consequently compared to a 40 loft or a 41.

 

because let us say I want a 45 loft "pw", then decide to go 5 degree loft differences. What are the length differences then between the 40 and the 35?

 

My friend also gets a 45 loft "pw" but then wants 4 degree differences. what are the length differences between the 41 and 37 compared to the 45?

 

Subsequently the headweight issues involved in that? because his 37 degree 8 iron vs my 35 degree 8iron may actually different irons for different make ups.

 

Just curious because I'm thinking of going 5 degree gaps in my clubs and this actually may solve it without doing any bending/tweaking the bounce.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

How are the length differences and the swingweight issues involved solved? 

 

Let's say between a 44 loft and a 45 loft and consequently compared to a 40 loft or a 41.

 

because let us say I want a 45 loft "pw", then decide to go 5 degree loft differences. What are the length differences then between the 40 and the 35?

 

My friend also gets a 45 loft "pw" but then wants 4 degree differences. what are the length differences between the 41 and 37 compared to the 45?

 

Subsequently the headweight issues involved in that? because his 37 degree 8 iron vs my 35 degree 8iron may actually different irons for different make ups.

 

Just curious because I'm thinking of going 5 degree gaps in my clubs and this actually may solve it without doing any bending/tweaking the bounce.

 

 

Some of what you're looking for can be found on the Hogan Website (click here for FT Worth iron specs).  Basically, length and lie change every 4 degrees, and can be adjusted even more based on a custom fitting, I imagine.  Stock swing weight is D2 from 20 thru 39, D3 40 thru  43, and D4 44 thru 47.  

 

Hope to visit their under-construction HQ in Forth Worth next week - will hope to learn more then.

[Kenny B]

Some of what you're looking for can be found on the Hogan Website (click here for FT Worth iron specs).  Basically, length and lie change every 4 degrees, and can be adjusted even more based on a custom fitting, I imagine.  Stock swing weight is D2 from 20 thru 39, D3 40 thru  43, and D4 44 thru 47.  

 

Hope to visit their under-construction HQ in Forth Worth next week - will hope to learn more then.

 

Please ask them how they propose to fit the Hogan 5-8 equivalents to my 42-58 SCORs with the Genius9 shaft (UST ProForceV2 95) using a Recoil shaft.  Thank you.

[wbealsd]

Please ask them how they propose to fit the Hogan 5-8 equivalents to my 42-58 SCORs with the Genius9 shaft (UST ProForceV2 95) using a Recoil shaft.  Thank you.

Recoil 808 or 809?

http://www.ustmamiya.com/golf-shafts/irons/proforce-rv2-gold-95

http://www.ustmamiya.com/golf-shafts/irons/recoil-800-series

[Kenny B]

Recoil 808 or 809?

http://www.ustmamiya.com/golf-shafts/irons/proforce-rv2-gold-95

http://www.ustmamiya.com/golf-shafts/irons/recoil-800-series

 

When I talked to them before Christmas, the Genius9 shaft closely resembled the UST proforce RV2 95.  They hired a guy from UST to work at Hogan and that's what he said.  

[fozcycle]

Very Nice Interview.  I have been using the SCOR and Hogan Fit sites to determine what I should do.    Once I decided, I then assembled new to me Mizunos and SCOR's so that I can achieve the 4* gaps.  I will roll with this while the Hogan line develops.  Hopefully, I will be able to enjoy them a bit down the line.

[xxio]

Some of what you're looking for can be found on the Hogan Website (click here for FT Worth iron specs). Basically, length and lie change every 4 degrees, and can be adjusted even more based on a custom fitting, I imagine. Stock swing weight is D2 from 20 thru 39, D3 40 thru 43, and D4 44 thru 47.

 

Hope to visit their under-construction HQ in Forth Worth next week - will hope to learn more then.

 

Thank you.

[NiftyNiblick]

FW-15 / TK-15 set most beautiful I've ever owned.