Tips to fix a closed clubface with irons?

[mbrodeur86]

Guys,

 

This has been pissing me off for a while now. I wanted to learn how to draw the ball and I've figured out how to do so. My problem is that the clubface is ALWAYS anywhere between 3-6 degrees closed at impact (playing on the simulator). I've tried to swing on plane and even over the top with no success. I've tried to weaken my grip - no go. I play Wilson Staff FG Tour V2s and as far as I know, they do not have much offset. I want to be able to shape my shots at will but I'm having a really hard time figuring this one out. My mid irons are not as bad and I can shape my shots almost on command with my driver and 3 wood but for some reason, from the 8 iron down to the lob wedge...anyways, very frustrated here and really need some advice. 

 

If you need a video, I'll try to get one tonight

 

Thanks,

Lou a.k.a mbrodeur86

[Blade]

Over the top will close your face even more. If you turn your shoulders around too much too early, the face will be closed and you'll pull it unless you hold off the release which will make it fade/slice.

 

A feel that might help is your lead shoulder going up and your back shoulder going down more than you're used to, less around. Just a thought.

[Zeasy]

Lead weight on the toe.*

 

*I am not a golf professional and this advice should be treated as such.

[mbrodeur86]

Going to pay attention to this tonight. Thanks Zeasy and Blade

[Kenny B]

I can understand a draw with driver, FW, hybrids and long/mid irons, but I see no reason to hit anything but a straight shot with scoring clubs. Well, unless you are trying to hook a wedge around a tree like Bubba at Augusta!

[jaskanski]

A flat wrist is the key to getting the club face in the correct position at the top of the backswing. Even if you have a nice neutral grip at address, a bowed wrist will lead to hooks and draws as will a cupped wrist promote slices and fades. 

Some players use this method to deliberately work the ball in either direction, but it's much harder to control in the downswing and calls for precision timing - something not all of us possess.

Check you club face at the top of your backswing - it should be parallel to your forearm and your wrist should be in line (flat) with it too. Basically your club face likes to go where your back of your hand is pointing with a good grip - if your wrist gets out of position at the top, then all sorts of problems can occur when you try to manipulate the club face to correct the error in the down swing.

[RookieBlue7]

Lead weight on the toe.*

 

*I am not a golf professional and this advice should be treated as such.

That will cause a fade as the weight on the toe causes the heel to rotate through quicker. Don't adjust your equipment, adjust your swing. The easiest way to make ones self hit a draw or fade is an old school alignment trick. Align the face where you want the ball to finish and the feet/body to where you want it to start. Swing along your body line and it'll do what you want it to do.

[jaskanski]

 The easiest way to make ones self hit a draw or fade is an old school alignment trick. Align the face where you want the ball to finish and the feet/body to where you want it to start. Swing along your body line and it'll do what you want it to do.

 

My preferred method  . Glad some things don't change much. A tip I picked up from a certain Mr. G. Norman some 35+ years ago.

[Kor.A.Door]

Why force a draw or fade? Some people draw, some people fade, some people hit it straight, if you want to screw up your swing, then go ahead and force yourself to hit sonething that you are not accustomed to doing, I tried the same thing a couple years back, messed my entire swing up for the year

[mbrodeur86]

Why force a draw or fade? Some people draw, some people fade, some people hit it straight, if you want to screw up your swing, then go ahead and force yourself to hit sonething that you are not accustomed to doing, I tried the same thing a couple years back, messed my entire swing up for the year

 

 

It's because the draw right now is borderline hook and like someone posted a little higher, I want my scoring clubs to go as straight as possible to the flag. The draw is fine with the long clubs, it's not as "pronounced" as the shorter/ scoring clubs. I'm working towards being able to shot shape on command. 

 

I'm still on a simulator so no real outdoor stuff but something I found interesting. The guy who owns the simulators where I play has the Jim Maclean 8 step golf lesson program. I tried it the other day and took maybe 12-15 swings with pw to 8 iron. Interestingly enough, when I swung with all these clubs, I had the slightest of fades with almost dead straight shots on occasion taking the same setup and swing as I do on the other simulator and the ball was going much further than the other simulator. 177 with an 8, 147 with a pw. I passed the first step of the course with my first swing but kept getting these same results. My brother witnessed this also so I don't want to change anything in my swing (if that's the case) before I get out on a practice range and see actual ball flight. These machines are state of the art, newest thing you can get on the market so.....

[Kenny B]

Until you get out on a course, I wouldn't worry about it to much.  Coming off the winter, we are all a little "off".  Sometimes it's just a matter of going back to the basics.  I have never used a simulator, since I can play all year long but when it's cold, funny things can happen to your swing.  

 

Recently, I seemed to have developed a slight push.  I am a straight ball hitter (well, most of the time...  So, a push is not something I want to see.  My grip was a little off, and when I corrected it, I was back to normal.  

[revkev]

I would not monkey with anything based on a simulator only. Seriously, has your pro looked at your swing? Could it be that you don't respond well to hitting inside into a screen? Indoor sims are great in the winter up North or to help verify what you are seeing with your eyes or for a trained professional.

 

Just be patient and wait until you get outside on real turf before worrying about it.

[Txstcatman]

Get yourself on an outdoor range.  Be prepared to hit a ton of balls, but focus on one thing at a time.  Warm up with a comfortable swing.

 

With regards to shot shape, there are usually two things that get in my head.  First is my left foot orientation.  If I set it up perpendicular to the ball/target line, I will tend to draw or even pull my shot.  If I open up to an angle, for some reason I hit more of a fade.  I think the setup lends to a different club path and affects my swing as such.  The other is more mental.  I pick a target line just left of my setup position, I get the draw, but pick the positing or just right and I straighten out or hit a small fade. 

 

Before changing anything, let your body get into normal outdoor golf shape and let your swing do its thing.  Remember that real turf interaction will vary some from mats inside.

[mbrodeur86]

I'm hoping the range opens sometime soon. On the simulator, and I showed my playing partners yesterday, I lined up to my shot and opened the face and took my normal swing. It told me I was on plane but the clubface was 7.3 degrees closed. I do think this is a simulator type of problem. 

[RookieBlue7]

After the course opens, if it persists, you might also try a larger grip (midsize or add a few wraps). That will quiet the handsy activity down some as well

[Blade]

You're either rolling the club over too much with your hands or turning your shoulders around too much. Address the ball and then get into what you feel is your impact position. Watch what happens to the club face if you open your shoulders more to the target.

 

Don't get hung up on simulator numbers though. The ball will tell the story when you're outside. If you're pulling it straight left, you know you're coming over the top and your body/shoulders are the problem. If you're pull hooking it, your path is probably pretty good but you're too handsy.

[mbrodeur86]

Rooks, I'm using midsize grips (Lamkin Perma Wrap 3Gen)

 

Blade, it's not pulling straight left either. I want the ball to go straight so I align my clubface first to the flag and than "walk into" my clubface so that my feet are parallel to my target line. I make a full 1 piece turn as much as I can and it says that my club plane and swing are on plane but the face registers as closed and I miss way left on a lot of shots. Even when I aim way right it goes way left. I make sure my grip is very neutral (my hands are almost on top of each other). I do think it's a simulator issue. It doesn't look like our driving range will be open until may 5th so I'll keep hitting balls but it's very frustrating to say the least. Since the clubs were not fitted, could this also be an issue? 

[Blade]

So does it start left and draw or fade?

[jaskanski]

 Since the clubs were not fitted, could this also be an issue? 

 

In the absence of any other evidence, I would of thought that would be the first thing you should have checked. Old saying perhaps, but if there is an element of doubt, then remove all possible elements which might be causing it. Properly fitted equipment only leaves yourself to blame for wayward shots in other words.

[mbrodeur86]

I "assumed" they were fine as when I got them, I was hitting them fine. It seems to have gotten worse over time.

[revkev]

Jaskanski just gave THE reason to get fit IMO. Golf is about eliminating variables and doubt about equipment is a huge one.

 

MBrodeur as much as it may suck on the simulator I would continue to urge you to chill until you get outside. We are all wound differently for certain but sight and feel are key elements for any of us in correcting swing problems. Remember it's only a swing or equipment problem if the ball flight isn't there. If you can't see the ball flight it's much harder to adjust. Additionally the way a shot feels can provide valuable feedback, hitting off a mat robs you of that opportunity and in fact may provide false or contradictory data to your brain.

 

Just wait until you get outside. It could be alignment caused by some perception under artificial light, it could be that you feel restricted in the little net area, it could be you need to see you ball flight and once you do the correction will come to you, it could be the equipment. Just be patient.

[mbrodeur86]

That's the plan at the moment. I have some old golf balls I just might go to the driving range (if its dry enough) and hit a few. Everything feels fantastic. When I hit the center of that clubface, it feels perfect. I hate NOT being rewarded for it. The only course I do really well on the simulator is the old course in St Andrews. The fairways and greens are huge so if I miss left I'm still in the fairway and/or green although I have 40-50 ft putts to make lol. I actually shot 71 (-1) twice on that course. 

[Blade]

What simulator are you using anyway?

[mbrodeur86]

What simulator are you using anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpi9WFmI-uE

[mbrodeur86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLSSf6Qdc2c

[mbrodeur86]

So I went to hole #12 at the local golf club since it's close to the place where the simulator is:

 

1 - The ground is soaking wet lol 

 

2 - Was hitting very nice draws with my 8 iron. 

 

Overall, it wasn't as bad as I could adjust where I was aiming and hit them right in the middle where on the simulator is was worse because I couldn't adjust as well. I did notice my face being closed on the real thing compared to when I'm at the simulators. I'll keep an eye on it. Will be going to a demo day on May 16th. 

[mizuno_lover]

Hi Mate

 

I would be waiting till you get outside and start hitting full shots out doors.  Seems like you are relying heavily on info from the simulator and whilst handy that's all it is - a simulator.  Nothing can take the place of getting out there.

 

Hope it works out for you soon.  Nothing worse than being stuck with a hook or a shot shape you don't want.

 

Cheers

Greg

[mbrodeur86]

It was pretty good today. They were still hitting draws but no where near as pronounced as the simulators suggest.