GolfSpy T's Ball Project

[Tony Covey MGS]

Like many of you, I suspect, I don't consistently play the same ball from round to round, or even hole to hole. As part of a season dedicated to getting smarter about my game, I've decided to try and find the 'right' ball for MY game...and maybe even stick with it.

 

For no other reason than I wanted to take full swings today, I started with a full sand wedge shots. According to the Foresight GC2 launch monitor my range for a full sand wedge is in the ballpark of 85-105 depending on quality of contact. That's a pretty significant gap, but I suspect that many of you would likely find that you're not that different. We love the bigger numbers for averages, but the reality is we miss.

 

In the near future I will be testing balls with a Driver, 7-iron, and wedge approximately 50 yards. I suspect the latter is where the biggest differences will be found.

 

 

Test Conditions

• Data was collected using a Foresight GC2 launch monitor.
• To ensure consistent hitting conditions and clean grooves, all shots were hit from a SKLZ Glidepad mat.
• All shots were hit with a 56° Renegar Tour Proto RxF (Forged) Wedge.
• Balls were hit into an 8'x8' SKLZ Quickster Net.
• Testing was supervised by my 18 month old Doberman, Ryder.

 

Testing Process

• I hit 10 quality shots with each ball. Any garbage shots, particularly those with total spin measured below 7000 RPM were dropped.
• After collecting 10 good shots with each ball, the 3 with the lowest total spin were dropped before performing final calculations.

Ball Tested

• Nike RZN Black
• Srixon Z-Star
• Srixon Z-Star XV
• TaylorMade Project [a]
• TaylorMade Tour Preferred
• TaylorMade Tour Preferred X

 

Anticipated FAQ

Why didn't you test...

 

For the most part I tested what was immediately on hand.

 

At some point I'd like to add the Bridgestone B330 and B330-S to the list, as well as the Snell My Tour Ball, and perhaps the new Wilson Balls as well. As most of you are aware, Titleist and Callaway don't participate in much of anything we do, and so while I bear no ill will towards either company, quite honestly, I may not consider either company's golf balls, but you never know. 

 

The Results

 

Observations

 

Nike RZN Black - The clear outlier in this test, the Nike RZN Black simply didn't spin as much as the other balls. It also felt the firmest within this group. While I haven't found a ball a like better in the wind, the relative lack of spin in the 100 yard range could be a deal-breaker for me. I may consider the RZN Platinum instead.

 

Sirxon Z-Star - My favorite on feel alone. Clearly competitive with regard to total spin.

 

Srixon Z-Star XV - Noticeably softer than the previous incarnation of the the same ball (I hated the feel of the last one). Feel difference between XV and standard Z-Star is almost negligible. Will be particularly interested to see if reduction in driver spin can offset what I suspect will be reduced greenside spin as well.

 

TaylorMade Project [a] - I am an unashamed ball snob, so this is not a ball I would consider if not for the enthusiasm coming from inside TaylorMade regarding this ball's potential for the average golfer. This first round of spin numbers suggests it warrants further consideration.

 

TaylorMade Tour Preferred - Not a real surprise for me. This along with the TP X is my tournament ball. Certainly it will continue on in my search.

 

TaylorMade Tour Preferred X - My favorite of the TaylorMade balls prior to the test, I suppose I'm slightly surprised that it spun the most for me. Standard Deviations considered, however, there's statistically no difference between this and the Tour Preferred and Srixon Z-Star at this distance.

 

A Quick Plug for the GC2

 

One of the features of the Foresight GC2 is that it talks. Basically it audiblizes key data (ball speed, launch angle, spin, and carry) for each shot. This job has taught me to think in numbers and what I found that feedback allows me to connect what the launch monitor is telling me to the feeling of the swing itself. Some might call that a bit of a different approach...instead of considering the feel that created the result, I focus on the result and work back to the feeling. 

[Aotearoa_Brad]

I know this is off target, but man do I love the look of those Renegar wedges - the best looking wedges IMHO - if they weren't do darn expensive (and I weren't so cheap) it'd be a match made in heaven!

 

Back on topic - I'm really interested in following this T. My experience with the Z Star has me sold on them in terms of what I've tried so far, but interested to see how they all stack up for you with the good range of balls you're teasting, and right through the bag. Nice work!

[Tony Covey MGS]

I know this is off target, but man do I love the look of those Renegar wedges - the best looking wedges IMHO - if they weren't do darn expensive (and I weren't so cheap) it'd be a match made in heaven!

 

Big fan of the new wedge myself. It has a bit of larger footprint (but not to the extent of the original) and a noticeably rounded shape. For Mizuno fans...it's much more an R series than a T. Great feel, and really is the true evolution of the original Solus line. We tested a Forged Solus a few years ago that never made it to retail. These are the evolution of that wedge. Might see some course time. Based on what I've seen so far for '15, it may come down to this or the TaylorMade EF Wedge. 

[Aotearoa_Brad]

cool - are we going to see a full review of the Reneger wedges?

[revkev]

Well the obvious question is, why didn't you use a robot? So I won't ask that one.

 

Instead I will look forward to the test and add that this is what all of us should do when looking for a ball. Good luck.

 

I do have one request, could you possibly throw a midline ball, something like the Nike Red. It would be interesting to see how it ball like that differs in this test or doesn't.

[jbil8802]

I would sell my soul for a GC2.

[mbrodeur86]

I understand your stance on not using a Callaway or Titleist product in your bag but seriously, you should use what's best for your game. You have a good bunch of balls to test there but you should put them up against the Pro V1 and Pro V1x just because they are what people call "the standard" in golf balls. It at least would take all doubt out of what these balls would be up against. I play the Pro V1x and was using the Rzn Black but went back strictly on 2 things - more spin off the wedges and better feel off the putter face.

[BIG STU]

Sounds like a pretty fair test to me. I will agree with you 110% on the Nike RZN. One of our pros had some samples yesterday and we were messing around with them late yesterday afternoon in the short game practice area. I could not make them check up much at all even with a 60 going "uptown" with the face wide open. The feel on putting felt clicky to me and it seemed to jump off the putter face for me. On the other hand I have found a new ball that seems to work for me the Srixon Soft Feel. Now I was a big fan of the original Z- Star but had durability issues with them scuffing up. A friend of mine gave me 2 he found and I played 36 holes last Saturday rotating the two balls. Distance was as good for me as my beloved Pro V-1 maybe a little more. Had a great feel to me off the driver and around the green. I had no problem spinning it with the wedges and it putted like an old balata ball to me.Time will tell I actually played the same two balls 36 holes more on Sunday. I had absolutely no durability issues with them. I was so impressed that I went up the street to Wally World and bought me a dozen. Will find out under fire tomorrow because I am playing in a charity scramble tomorrow and plan on playing this ball

[revkev]

T I missed your last comment. Have you read Dean's comments in some of his responses? A long time ago I started a thread on another forum entitled feel is over rated. I should have called it feel is deceptive but regardless it got ugly fast and stayed that way to the point that one guy and I may never agree on anything again.

 

One of the things that I have appreciated with MGS is that you have identified feel as sound. I also believe that feel is feedback. You statement at the end of the thread opening about adjusting your desired feel to performance and Deans about cores being able to make tour balls feel softer seem to confirm what I've believed. Feel is about feedback but sometimes we misinterpret the feedback.

 

I'm still hoping you will throw in a mid level ball of some sort at least off the driver and half wedge. I understand that you are testing a ball for yourself and you aren't likely to be using one of those but I think many of us would like to see the spin/launch numbers in those two categories. Mregardless thanks for letting us in on your test.

[BIG STU]

I think the feel feedback thing translates differently for different folks. I for one have been blessed with great feel whether it is in golf , driving a race car or operating a truck or piece of machinery. Different folks have a different feel in different ways. A good example was when I was racing cars. A good friend of mine and a excellent driver (he won 3 World 4 cylinder Championships) did not run a seat cushion in his cars he could feel as he described it what the chassis was doing with his butt. Me on the other hand did not wear gloves and I felt what the car was doing through my hands on the steering wheel. One of the races he won I had not qualified for and I was on the crew. He radioed in that he had a right rear tire going down he had felt it. We pitted and changed the right rear and he was correct it had a slow leak and had lost about 2 pounds of air most folks would have not noticed that at that stage myself included but he did. Feel translates and interprets different for different people

[JBones]

T, your suspection on the Z-Star XV is right on. I have been gaming the new version and it is my new favorite ball. I have had to adjust quite a bit around the greens, as it has significantly less spin than the Chrome +, which I have been gaming for a few years. I would describe it as a check and release. On 50yd shots from the fairway on firm greens, I have been playing for 15-20' of release; from the rough.....good luck.

 

NOTE - I have also switched to Paderson graphite iron shafts, which have quite a bit less spin, so this also contributes to my results.

[Kenny B]

"Feel difference between XV and standard Z-Star is almost negligible. "

 

Well then my wife must be like the princess and the pea. She's been playing Z-Stars for a couple of years, but when she was give a new XV, she hated it. Back to the new Z-Star, and every thing is fine.

 

Glad we finally get to look at balls. Everyone has a favorite, and hopefully you can create some kind of golf ball testing database.

[revkev]

Sometimes I wish that I had paid more attention in High School, particularly in a useful class like physics.

 

As a practical matter what's the difference in 2000 RPMs of spin. It sounds like a lot and I'm fairly confident that it is but landing on the green what would happen? Also does that reduction in spin cause the ball to fly shorter or longer or because you had a higher launch is there no difference?

 

Those are really the questions that would be answered if you threw a mid ranged ball into the mix. Has any one picked up that I'm suspicious of those balls yet?

 

To Kenny's comment I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there is a significant difference in swing speed between T and your wife. That may account for the difference in feel between the two balls. Plus I believe he is only referencing feel off of a full sand wedge at this point.

[Kenny B]

Sometimes I wish that I had paid more attention in High School, particularly in a useful class like physics.

As a practical matter what's the difference in 2000 RPMs of spin. It sounds like a lot and I'm fairly confident that it is but landing on the green what would happen? Also does that reduction in spin cause the ball to fly shorter or longer or because you had a higher launch is there no difference?

Those are really the questions that would be answered if you threw a mid ranged ball into the mix. Has any one picked up that I'm suspicious of those balls yet?

To Kenny's comment I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there is a significant difference in swing speed between T and your wife. That may account for the difference in feel between the two balls. Plus I believe he is only referencing feel off of a full sand wedge at this point.

Solid limb, Rev. Yes my wife doesn't have the swing speed that she used to, but she can tell the feel of the two balls off her driver. That makes sense that the XV would feel harder with a waaay slower swing speed. Probably not quite the difference between a TopFlite and a Duo, but noticeable.

[JohnBarry]

Love to know what you test out as the best ball under 19.95, which is the common golfer's magic price point.

[dru_]

Love to know what you test out as the best ball under 19.95, which is the common golfer's magic price point.

 

This is so much harder to test than the high end balls in my opinion, both because the sheer volume of balls in that range and the wildly different targets. Very very few balls in that price point that even try to go 3 for 3 on the distance, spin, feel triangle.

 

I don't argue that it wouldn't be a great test, but just thinking about the data sheet with that many ball options and targets makes my head hurt. I'm not Sure Excel can handle that many columns

[revkev]

I may have muddied the waters by asking T to throw one mid level ball in.  Totally my bad!

 

As I understand he's trying to determine the best ball for his game. He's not doing a comprehensive ball test.  He's including us in the results because he's thinking we'd like to see the numbers as he goes along.  He's right. 

[dru_]

Tell you what. Provide a GC2, and a supply of balls, I'll go hit balls for a few weeks and give you the results :-)

[Tony Covey MGS]

Hoping to find time to finish phase 1 and move on to phase 2 over the next couple of weeks. Should be interesting as the project is expanding.

 

 

[kfilly20]

I play the ProV1X for some reason. I like it around the greens a lot but I'm not sure its right for me off the tee. I have played 2 rounds with the Callaway Hex Chromes early this year and was bombing them long and straight. Could have been I was having a good day or is it the ball? Its hard for a guy without a launch monitor to test balls imo. I could play a crap ball and waste a round or I could just stick with what I think I like. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I guess I have no idea what ball I should use. Thats what I'm saying.

[revkev]

I play the ProV1X for some reason. I like it around the greens a lot but I'm not sure its right for me off the tee. I have played 2 rounds with the Callaway Hex Chromes early this year and was bombing them long and straight. Could have been I was having a good day or is it the ball? Its hard for a guy without a launch monitor to test balls imo. I could play a crap ball and waste a round or I could just stick with what I think I like. I don't know, I'm just rambling now. I guess I have no idea what ball I should use. Thats what I'm saying.

It's actually not that hard. Pick a pro line ball and play it. You are only likely to be a few yards different regardless of the ball so pick one that works best for you around the green. It's way more important that you play the same ball all the time because they all perform just a bit differently. T is being a physicist here and wanting to squeeze out every possible benefit. I love it but his game is so radically different from mine that there won't be a benefit for me

[kfilly20]

It's actually not that hard. Pick a pro line ball and play it. You are only likely to be a few yards different regardless of the ball so pick one that works best for you around the green. It's way more important that you play the same ball all the time because they all perform just a bit differently. T is being a physicist here and wanting to squeeze out every possible benefit. I love it but his game is so radically different from mine that there won't be a benefit for me

 

Awesome advice. Thats what I've done up to this. Buy a ton of Prov1X's and ride them out until they are gone then repeat. I guess there is no sense in changing now to save a couple bucks a year. I don't lose many balls so its not too big a deal buying a premium ball. 

[dru_]

T, I will note that the Nike RZN Platinum this year is a FAR better ball than previous years.  Still has a distinct sound, but exceptionally playable.

[revkev]

Is the Platinum new this year or was it in last year's batch?  Just curious, I'm set for balls through the year but was wondering.

[GolfSpy Tim]

following.

 

found a RZN the other day and played it for a few holes and actually really liked it.

[jkittlesen]

Good stuff, thanks

[revkev]

Can we get an update?

[dru_]

Can't speak for T's time, but I've been playing the RZN Platinums for the last month and am pretty much sold. The sound is still a little strange, but I am finding them to be exceptionally playable.

[kfilly20]

I played a round with the Callaway Speed Regime 2 and really really liked them. If they werent almost the same price as my ProV1X's I might consider gaming them. 

[Tony Covey MGS]

I figured it was time for an update. 

 

I haven't spent as much time on the launch monitor as I had originally planned. I expect I'll get back to that aspect of things, but I've really been spending lots of time with different balls on the course to see where I can actually see differences from one shot to the next.

 

As I look at different areas of the game, what I've found - and certainly those initial numbers with the Sand Wedge suggested this might be the case - is that in just about every area one might consider there are balls that standout (either good or bad), and a majority that basically performs well -enough without any particularly noticeable separation from the pack.

 

This is true of driver performance, iron performance, green side performance, and even less quantifiable things like feel.

 

I've talked about the Nike RZN Black. I still think it's the longest for me off the tee, but it leaves something to be desired around the green. The Callaway Chrome Soft does have a nice feel, but I'm far from enamored with it around the greens as well.

 

I get better greenside results with the RZN Platinum, but it's got a really strange feel. 

 

So it's really just been a process of slow elimination. When I do find something that apparently works better than the rest, it takes some repetition to determine whether it really stands out, or whether it's just a case of a good ball striking day making a ball look really good.

 

I'm likely going to be spending my next several rounds working between the Srixon and Bridgestone offerings. I haven't spent a ton of time with each yet, so I definitely haven't formed any sort of definitive opinion about which ball in the lineup more closely performs how I want it to.

 

Take the driver and putter out of it for a minute, and where I personally see differences between balls manifest themselves is what happens after the ball lands. Knowing what we know about launch and spin, it makes perfect sense, but I find myself really focused on that aspect of things right now.

 

From long irons, to middle, to short, and even pitches and chips, I'm seeing appreciable differences. 

 

So where does that leave me? At this point I'm trying to figure out exactly what I want a ball to do when it lands? Regardless of the natural trajectory of my shot...do I want a ball that stops dead? One that rolls out a few feet? One that comes back a few feet from inside 135?

 

For example, on a typical, well-struck shot with a Snell ball, I'm seeing 3-5 feet of roll. With the Pro V1x, I'm seeing less, and it tends to move a bit more with the curvature of the shot after it lands.

Which is more desireable? I know I don't want a lot of roll...there's something to be said for a few feet when you need it. There's also something to be said for a ball that stops almost dead from 200 yards out.

 

There is still much to be learned....