Indians or the arrows

[toomanymatts]

Another idea for a story...saw this one in the comments to the PXG thread, and do think it's a good idea.  An Indians or Arrows shootout.

 

Maybe take a club Pro, scratch handicapper or someone like that, and arm him with Walmart-full-set-clearance-rack-special clubs. 

 

Put him up against a (say) low teens handicapper armed with the latest/greatest/priciest/somethingest clubs we can find...maybe those PXGs, or even the Hogans that are being sent out as demo units for review at the moment.  Be interesting to test how much of a difference the sticks make there. 

 

You could either make the balls part of the test (pro balls for our amateur, walmart for our pro) or make them a controlled variable (both get the same). 

 

Just an idea...a lot of equipment threads here to come back to the Indian or the Arrows discussion, so seems like a pretty easy story to pull together, and a pretty interesting tale to tell.

[MmmmmmBuddy]

I like this idea, but the outcome is never in doubt. Scratch player wins... every time. He overcomes the equipment deficit with a much better short game.. 

[revkev]

I agree with mmmmmbuddy on this one.  Give the Scratch player a week to work with his beautiful new sticks and he adjusts just fine.  Consider that with all of the advances in technology average handicap indexes have only inched down.  I mean you'd think that now that we are hitting it 117 yards farther than we did with persimmon that we would all be scratch.

 

It's always the Indian - the key to getting the arrow straight is the Indian can focus on what he does rather than adjusting or making excuses.  But in the end its the Indian.

[hckymeyer]

To make this even remotely close you would need to give the scratch player hickory shafts and persimmons with a balata ball.

 

To give the higher capper an advantage you wouldn't just want the priciest clubs.  You would want perfectly fit clubs and most likely game improvement.

 

Even then I don't think it's really a contest.

[jdiddyesquire]

I would actually prefer to see the same player, play the same course, a half dozen times with top-end equipment and then with bottom-end equipment.

 

See what the stroke difference is.

[Blade]

I would actually prefer to see the same player, play the same course, a half dozen times with top-end equipment and then with bottom-end equipment.

 

See what the stroke difference is.

 

That's the best idea right there.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Two comments:

 

1. Agree - have the same player play with top-end equipment and bottom-end equipment.  To make it interesting, have a single digit capper, a teen and a 20+ do the test.  

 

2. toomanymatts has THE best avatar going!  "I know NUTH-ing!"

[jdiddyesquire]

Two comments:

 

1. Agree - have the same player play with top-end equipment and bottom-end equipment.  To make it interesting, have a single digit capper, a teen and a 20+ do the test.  

 

2. toomanymatts has THE best avatar going!  "I know NUTH-ing!"

 

This. Cue MSG giving away a full set of Wal Mart clubs to testers to test against their personal bags. lol

[jaskanski]

That's the best idea right there.

 

I would actually prefer to see the same player, play the same course, a half dozen times with top-end equipment and then with bottom-end equipment.

 

See what the stroke difference is.

 

Quite right. Whenever you try to compare different equipment with different players, then all sorts of variables are thrown into the mix which tend to cancel out any form a scientific analysis. 

I guess I'm trying to say that despite the importance of being properly fitted for equipment, the Indian (i.e. the player) still accounts for 99% of the results. A properly fitted set can still be badly hit! And somewhere out there, somebody can probably outplay you with a set of garden tools as well. 

Therefore the individual rather than the equipment makes the biggest difference, so any relative comparison is rather useless. 

I would admit though that some pieces of equipment have general trends that cannot be ignored (simply due to the laws of physics in many cases) and fitting said equipment to any individual greatly reduces their chances of hitting a "bad" shot. And I've also seen enough pros hit shots with any club you can name in any dexterity and still make a remarkably accurate shot which embarrass most amateurs.

Golf is a game based around the use of equipment for sure, but it always has been and always will be a game of skill and talent. And Indians.

[toomanymatts]

there are full bag Wilsons being cleared for 84 bucks now on Walmart online

 

While I wouldn't doubt that a scratch/pro would still win, I guess what I was going for was this idea that people feel like they can 'buy' a game, and so it would be interesting to see if equipment could even serve to close the gap at all.

 

Still, core idea still holds...do people play better with more better quality/more expensive equipment...don't mind if that's the same guy playing twice or two guys playing against each other, I just would like to see an Indians/Arrows piece, and seemingly the principle is interesting to people here...

 

Do the editorial powers that be see these threads?

[revkev]

Consider that Bobby Jones regularly shot in the 60's with Hickory shafts and he was playing the most difficult courses in the world.  He'd have trouble doing it at 7,400 yards with that equipment though.

[wbealsd]

Consider that Bobby Jones regularly shot in the 60's with Hickory shafts and he was playing the most difficult courses in the world.  He'd have trouble doing it at 7,400 yards with that equipment though.

Yeah, but he'd still play better than me! - lol

[toomanymatts]

Not if you had gold plated Honma!

[wbealsd]

Not if you had gold plated Honma!

Oh yeah, he would.  He really would - lol

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

 

 

Do the editorial powers that be see these threads?

 

 

Our boys are in the air -- we'll see what happens!

[JBones]

I'm going to disagree to a degree. You take a low single, such as RevKev with Walmart clubs and I'd bet on him over a 12-15 every time. However, you give a low single digit such as myself that swings around 120mph and we are going to struggle mightily with that Walmart set. I'm not saying I wouldn't beat a 12-15, with that set, but I would be bunting my way around to do it. I've hit a Walmart driver before and my usual 310 is still 310, just 200 out and 110 left or right.

[toomanymatts]

And this agreeing to disagree over the degree of the disagreement over the original degree agreement is why I think we can agree to not disagree that measuring this degree this would make an interesting topic. Agreed?