Open stance on all shots?

[ZenGolfer]

Anyone ever tried setting up with an open stance on full swings?  I tend to block it to the right and I wonder if an open stance would make it easier for me to clear my hips coming through the ball.

[jbil8802]

I've never tried an open stance. I set up parallel to my target line and flare my front toe out about 30° which allows my hips to clear easier.

[RoverRick]

I do this occasionally because it is easier on my lower back. You have to be conscious of keeping the proper swing path otherwise you create as many problems as you solve.

[mizuno_lover]

Rover Rick hit the nail on the head as far as swing path goes.  Back in the late 80's the teaching used to be set up open with the short irons so you can clear your hips better and these days you never hear it talked about.  I watched a video of a guy that taught setting up open for every club in the bag.  Really I think if you do it and it works it's hard to argue with.  For me it just adds another part to an already difficult thing.

[BK in TEXAS]

Nope.  If I set-up any more closed my back would be to the green.  Open stance for me results in a dead pull or wicked slice.  Usually the former.

[revkev]

Lee Trevino did, Tom Lehman used to, it's like anything else out of the ordinary, harder to repeat. I wouldn't do it unless my teacher were recommending it for some reason (fat chance there.). As always consult your pro, he or she will know what's best for you. Good luck!

[kfilly20]

I like to open up a bit on my wedges and I've started closing my stance a little bit on my driver. It makes me keep my elbow in to keep the club from coming over the top. They both seem to work really well. Do you what you gotta do I guess. There is no right or wrong way.

[RookieBlue7]

I set up with the front foot flared out.  It's the method Hogan writes about in his book, 5 Lessons.

[HighFade]

I am a firm believer in "if it works for you" but my opinion is that it would promote a fade/slice. Won't know til you try tho...

[Blade]

I am a firm believer in "if it works for you" but my opinion is that it would promote a fade/slice. Won't know til you try tho...

A fade, or a straight pull depending on the grip and release. But yea, it could be just what he needs. Only one way to find out.....

[Undershooter]

I set up slightly open with everything but my driver. I also play fades the majority of the time. If I need to play a draw I close it off. Just depends on the shot.

[N8ball]

I did this for awhile, but eventually the fade/slice just got larger and the distance loss was too great. I did feel fairly accurate doing this, since the ball flight was pretty consistent. Hard to hit it far with a 40+ yard banana back into the fairway though.

[ZenGolfer]

I dont know, guys.  I tried it during my round on Sunday and I was still hitting pushes.  I think I just need to work on not comin so much from the inside.

Today, I spent a little time on a simulator and focused on feeling like I was coming slightly over the top and it seemed to fix it.

[ZenGolfer]

I set up with the front foot flared out.  It's the method Hogan writes about in his book, 5 Lessons.

Thats not really an open stance though and Hogan never talked about an open stance, he talked about flaring out the front foot.  Big difference.

[Jmikecpa]

I set up with the front foot flared out.  It's the method Hogan writes about in his book, 5 Lessons.

I do that same and I hit every shot with my stance open as it is the only way for me to get off my right side.  I started doing it after I tore my ACL the first time as it seems to put less pressure on my left knee during the swing.  It works for me and I am comfortable with it, but I would not try and teach it to my son or daughters as the way to play.

[Kenny B]

Lee Trevino did, Tom Lehman used to, it's like anything else out of the ordinary, harder to repeat. I wouldn't do it unless my teacher were recommending it for some reason (fat chance there.). As always consult your pro, he or she will know what's best for you. Good luck!

 

I'm with Rev on this one.  It has to be used under close instructor supervision, or you will introduce other issues.  It's a Freddie Couples swing; works for him, but not many people have his angle of attack and swing tempo.  

[Fireinthehole]

I'll try to keep this condensed.

The club coming in at impact is the most important, look at pro's at or near impact and its hard to tell them apart- all different swings, set ups and grips. 

 

Worked for trevino, might work for you, but if you are hitting pushes it'll only accentuate the issue- especially over the top issues.

You might already know the following so I apologize for the redundancy.

For all the reasons pushes can occur, one is from having your hips open up faster and out racing your arms and this having a open club face at impact. Can sometimes be seen by heel hits- coupled with gear effect results in a push slice. This is why if people set up with a closed stance they can mitigate that effect. This particular problem is what I struggled with for 6 months. 

Without getting into all the ball flight laws etc.

 

I play these stances here. Chancing my stance instead of my swing or club face.

I play a fade with the smaller clubs because I don't want distance, I want accuracy and play a draw with the mid irons and woods. 

Open stance on full swings with 9i-60* -really easy to pull/ hook these for me so open encourages an out to in and if I didn't manipulate the face, nice fade.

Neutral stance with 5i-8i - I typically hit a push draw with these so slight in to out swing.

Closed with woods- I want a draw on those straight holes and really encourages that in to out swing and because I swing these more aggressively- doesn't everybody?- i don't want my hands getting stuck and hitting a push or push slice.

[stuie1111]

Probably only advisable out of the sand.

[ZenGolfer]

I'll try to keep this condensed.

The club coming in at impact is the most important, look at pro's at or near impact and its hard to tell them apart- all different swings, set ups and grips. 

 

Worked for trevino, might work for you, but if you are hitting pushes it'll only accentuate the issue- especially over the top issues.

You might already know the following so I apologize for the redundancy.

For all the reasons pushes can occur, one is from having your hips open up faster and out racing your arms and this having a open club face at impact. Can sometimes be seen by heel hits- coupled with gear effect results in a push slice. This is why if people set up with a closed stance they can mitigate that effect. This particular problem is what I struggled with for 6 months. 

Without getting into all the ball flight laws etc.

 

I play these stances here. Chancing my stance instead of my swing or club face.

I play a fade with the smaller clubs because I don't want distance, I want accuracy and play a draw with the mid irons and woods. 

Open stance on full swings with 9i-60* -really easy to pull/ hook these for me so open encourages an out to in and if I didn't manipulate the face, nice fade.

Neutral stance with 5i-8i - I typically hit a push draw with these so slight in to out swing.

Closed with woods- I want a draw on those straight holes and really encourages that in to out swing and because I swing these more aggressively- doesn't everybody?- i don't want my hands getting stuck and hitting a push or push slice.

I think my problem is that my hips outrace by hands and I get stuck.  Ive been working on speeding up my arms and feeling they are more in front of me at impact.

[Fireinthehole]

I think my problem is that my hips outrace by hands and I get stuck. Ive been working on speeding up my arms and feeling they are more in front of me at impact.

I had a really passive right arm so there wasn't a natural release. Didn't help my right hands "V" pointed to my right shoulder, when I turned it so that it faced my right ear, helped more than I expected. Start every range session/round warmup now with half swings with wedges to get that right arm release feeling.

[Fireinthehole]

I posted something about this earlier in the year. Now i hit a push draw or a pull/ draw for the most part.

Here is a link to a simple butch harmon article that started it all.

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-05/fast-fixes-butch-harmon-push

 

What is missing is some set up instructions, that will answer questions you might have. Say when you are at the range the next time. Here is a video from titleist that covers where your club face should point, hips & shoulder alignment.

 

http://www.titleist.com/teamtitleist/b/tourblog/archive/2014/07/31/18-shots-presented-by-titleist-how-to-hit-a-power-draw-with-mark-blackburn.aspx

 

What is missing from all is GRIP PRESSURE. If your left hand is really tight it won't allow the natural motion of the club face to rotate over. That is why some of the best players use a firmer left hand grip to fade. So if the above instructions don't get you to turn the ball over, look at that left grip. Typically as a round progresses your grip pressure tends to increase. Mine does and I may in turn hit a fade instead of a draw.

 

Yes I have a lot time to look up golf stuff/ instructions 

[RookieBlue7]

Thats not really an open stance though and Hogan never talked about an open stance, he talked about flaring out the front foot. Big difference.

Didn't say it was an open stance. I don't have trouble clearing my hips so there's no need to open the stance for me. But some people associate the flared foot with an open stance and it can be a mental trick for some to think they're opening the stance by just flaring the foot. I do it for stability in the backswing and to create more cool and resistance.

[ZenGolfer]

Didn't say it was an open stance. I don't have trouble clearing my hips so there's no need to open the stance for me. But some people associate the flared foot with an open stance and it can be a mental trick for some to think they're opening the stance by just flaring the foot. I do it for stability in the backswing and to create more cool and resistance.

A flared foot isnt an open stance and like I said, Hogan never talked about it in 5 Lessons.

[ZenGolfer]

I posted something about this earlier in the year. Now i hit a push draw or a pull/ draw for the most part.

Here is a link to a simple butch harmon article that started it all.

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-05/fast-fixes-butch-harmon-push

 

What is missing is some set up instructions, that will answer questions you might have. Say when you are at the range the next time. Here is a video from titleist that covers where your club face should point, hips & shoulder alignment.

 

http://www.titleist.com/teamtitleist/b/tourblog/archive/2014/07/31/18-shots-presented-by-titleist-how-to-hit-a-power-draw-with-mark-blackburn.aspx

 

What is missing from all is GRIP PRESSURE. If your left hand is really tight it won't allow the natural motion of the club face to rotate over. That is why some of the best players use a firmer left hand grip to fade. So if the above instructions don't get you to turn the ball over, look at that left grip. Typically as a round progresses your grip pressure tends to increase. Mine does and I may in turn hit a fade instead of a draw.

 

Yes I have a lot time to look up golf stuff/ instructions 

I hear you.  I spend more time thinking about the mechanics of the golf swing than is probably healthy.  For me, I think the issue was my hips outracing my arms.  Ive worked on slowing down my hips and now Im hitting a slight, little draws and even hitting fades with the driver.  Its pretty funny how something so stupid was the bane of my golf existence for the past 15 years. LOL

[RookieBlue7]

A flared foot isnt an open stance and like I said, Hogan never talked about it in 5 Lessons.

You sure, because he said right foot square, left foot turned slightly toward the target line.  To quote Hogan directly from 5 Lessons, on page 41 in my copy at the bottom of the page (carries over to page 42) :

 

"It has always struck me that these players succeed in spite of the placement of their feet, for I have been convinced since my early days in golf that THERE IS ONE CORRECT BASIC STANCE: THE RIGHT FOOT IS AT A RIGHT ANGLE TO THE LINE OF FLIGHT AND THE LEFT FOOT IS TURNED OUT A QUARTER OF A TURN TO THE LEFT."

 

 

 

That is 100% verbatim from Hogan's book, which I have sitting in front of me right now. Don't know how much more plain he could have said to flare the foot out.  Perhaps you'd like to borrow a copy of the book?  And never once did I say it was an open stance, if you'll read where I've said that twice now.  I said it is a mental trick to make one think they're in an open stance.  The mind works in mysterious ways.  

[Fireinthehole]

I hear you. I spend more time thinking about the mechanics of the golf swing than is probably healthy. For me, I think the issue was my hips outracing my arms. Ive worked on slowing down my hips and now Im hitting a slight, little draws and even hitting fades with the driver. Its pretty funny how something so stupid was the bane of my golf existence for the past 15 years. LOL

That's great man! Sometimes I wish I could record my swing when I'm really on so I can go back and see what I changed haha

[ZenGolfer]

You sure, because he said right foot square, left foot turned slightly toward the target line.  To quote Hogan directly from 5 Lessons, on page 41 in my copy at the bottom of the page (carries over to page 42) :

 

"It has always struck me that these players succeed in spite of the placement of their feet, for I have been convinced since my early days in golf that THERE IS ONE CORRECT BASIC STANCE: THE RIGHT FOOT IS AT A RIGHT ANGLE TO THE LINE OF FLIGHT AND THE LEFT FOOT IS TURNED OUT A QUARTER OF A TURN TO THE LEFT."

 

 

 

That is 100% verbatim from Hogan's book, which I have sitting in front of me right now. Don't know how much more plain he could have said to flare the foot out.  Perhaps you'd like to borrow a copy of the book?  And never once did I say it was an open stance, if you'll read where I've said that twice now.  I said it is a mental trick to make one think they're in an open stance.  The mind works in mysterious ways.  

I own the book and have read it at least a dozen times, thanks.  Beyond that, like I said, a flared foot is not an open stance.  We're talking about an open stance here, not a flared foot that tricks you into thinking you have an open stance.  We're talking about biomechanics, not psychology.  If you want to talk about the many benefits of flaring your front foot, youre more than welcome to start a thread about it. 

[ZenGolfer]

That's great man! Sometimes I wish I could record my swing when I'm really on so I can go back and see what I changed haha

I know the feeling.  Im actually planning on becoming a PGA professional in the near future.  I feel like every time I play and get grouped with strangers, someone ends up asking me for advice and Im almost always able to help them.  I feel like why not do it for a living and get paid for it. LOL

[Undershooter]

I know the feeling.  Im actually planning on becoming a PGA professional in the near future.  I feel like every time I play and get grouped with strangers, someone ends up asking me for advice and Im almost always able to help them.  I feel like why not do it for a living and get paid for it. LOL

A 20 handicap is going to have a hard time passing the PAT(player ability test) to become a PGA professional. 

[Kenny B]

AND the common PGA pro doesn't get paid very much; plus they have to work activities and attend seminars to collect "points" to maintain their status.