Online fit/player/fitter

[revkev]

I'm hoping that this topic doesn't get lost by putting it here but this is where it belongs so here goes and let's see what happens.

 

I've had 4 serious fittings over the past 6 years.  Here's a summary of each: 

 

1.  Comprehensive somewhat pricey fitting whose goal was to address my current set.  It was a great experience, I didn't purchase any new clubs as the result of it but did re-shaft my irons and had my putter adjusted significantly (whether it was that or better ball striking I don't know but I averaged two putts per round less the next season.) The fitter was concerned about my game and also about teaching me how equipment might help me to improve.  I did playing some of the best golf of my life as a result.  My handicap index remained below 2 for the entire season and I ha 

 

2.  A fitting for the Mizuno Irons that I won as a part of the MGS staff contest three years ago.  Another pleasant experience but this fitter didn't care about my game, his attitude was that he and his computer knew everything and I was insignificant in the process.  The result was a big miss.

 

3.  A fitting at the tour performance center at TPC Sawgrass for a Taylor Made driver.  One of the most enjoyable days of my life.  I learned so much at this fitting, so much.  It started with a half an hour discussion of my game and my goals.  Even though it was for woods the fitter talked me through iron fittings, ball fittings, shoes, it was unbelievable. 

 

4.  A fitting for my current Wilson Irons.  It was a clean fitting with a nice give and take between the fitter and myself.  In fact we had two sessions and then a third post fitting session with the irons to make sure that we got what we ordered.  

 

Having written that I've learned a few things about my game. 

 

1.  I'm a better iron player with a lighter shaft, preferably graphite and also I'm better when my iron shafts are longer than what would be considered standard by most. 

 

2.  Length of shaft in the driver depends on the shaft.  I do better with a bit shorter than what normally comes stock but it will vary between 44.5 and 45" depending on the shaft.  I'm currently playing 45" and flushing a lot of drives with it.

 

 

Here's what I'm wondering and where I'd love to see the discussion move.

 

 

1.  Would I do better with a bit heavier shaft in my irons?  My current gamer has a shaft that is around 65 grams in it.  That's what was in my prior set.  My biggest iron issues are to get too far inside or too fast at transition.  I hit my wedges well and they have a slightly heavier shaft. 

 

I'm wondering if something around 85 grams will slow the transition part down.  the too far inside part is on me and has nothing to do with the club I'm using, when I'm swinging well its not an issue.  I have a set of irons with i80 steel fibers in them.  I've already noticed that I'm better with the short irons than my current ones. 

 

I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this especially from the experienced fitters out there.

 

2.  Why would I prefer and in fact hit the ball better with irons that are longer than standard?  I have no clue, a static fit won't suggest it but for the past decade I've played better with irons that are longer than standard length.  Does this help inhibit that inside take away?  Is that it?

 

3.  It's critical to get fit more than once to have a point of comparison between fittings.  Three of my four were similar enough for me to know that they were the better way.  The other one was nothing more than a glorified online fit. He was going to give me what he wanted to.  Interestingly he fits a prominent LPGA player.  That could be the issue, he fits one, the guy at the Tour Performance Center fits one a week.  He prefers fitting guys like me where as the guy who messed up is a pro fitter wanna be. 

 

Regardless I think its crazy for anyone who is serious about his game not to have gone through a thorough fitting process a couple of times, unless he or she doesn't have the money to do it (that's always a given and a possibility.)  You need to know what equipment will work best for you.

 

I will look forward to your comments.

 

 

[Kenny B]

Rev, great summary on your fittings. I have really only had one fitting for my Ping i20 irons and TM Fairway and hybrids. At my age its graphite baby!

 

My irons are also over length by 1in and purple dot (1.5 flat). I think the stock shaft is about 80 grams. I am a little surprised that you like the lighter graphite shafts. I remember that your SCORs were Genius7 which are lighter than my Genius9. I would have thought that coming from steel shafts that a heavier graphite would have felt better. I have always liked the feel of steel, but can't play them anymore. That's why the Genius9 felt better to me; @95g. I also tend to get quick in transition and lighter shafts make it worse.

 

If I were going to test a change in shaft weight, I would look for a single C-100 club on eBay and put in a heavier shaft with similar characteristics to your gamers.

 

Question: you said that you were going to pick up a Hogan or two. Were you considering a heavier shaft? Is this what this is all about? If so, I think you will then have a problem with the transition to the SCORs, being as light as they are. Always something...

[revkev]

A couple of things based on Kenny's comments.

 

Shaft weight in irons has been a gradual descent starting with ultra lite dynamic gold steal shafts, moving to a fujikara 90 gram graphite to two shafts in the mid 60's. I've been playing shafts at that weight for four years. When I was fit for my Wilson's last spring we went back on forth on shaft weight. We went with this one because I was a tad longer and it was similar to what I had.

 

Like any long time MGS forum member I have a large stock pile of surplus clubs with a variety of shafts in the hopper. I'm sampling some rocket bladez with aerotech i80's and will compare to my Wilson's before doing anything with Hogan. It will be September or perhaps October before I make that call.

 

The short answer is that I want to be certain of the best shaft weight for me before ordering anything,yes. That's not the main reason for starting this thread however.

[jaskanski]

First off, I'm glad you have seen a fitter on different occasions and got some feedback. 

I think perhaps your main issue is with your transition from the top of your backswing. Lighter shafts feel easier to get to the top and generate good speed in the downswing, but problems can occur if you have a fast and strong transition. This is where a heavier shaft can control tempo and utilise it's mass to create resistance to the force being applied in the downswing - thereby controlling the transition rate and maintaining flex. A stiffer butt section certainly helps for an aggressive transition and as a general rule of thumb, the faster the transition the heavier a shaft should be.

However, the role of shaft weight needs to be applied with swing weight in mind, giving the player a sense of the feel of the club without it potentially feel like swinging a lead pipe if it's a heavier shaft. 10-20g increase in weight isn't going to make a huge difference in swing speed, but it can make a big difference if the balance (swing weight) is at the head or butt of the club. A noticeable difference would be 30-40g increase in overall shaft weight.

The best way to decide on shaft weight is to find the most comfortable swing weight first. This is fairly easy by adding lead tape on your light shafts until you get the best feel. Your current light shafts may be the result of longer than standard lengths to keep swing weight in check for instance, so once you get a preferred swing weight, then you can ascertain the build you can achieve using the components you have, or the shaft you might need. This is where a good fitter can filter out the options and recommend a shaft based on your swing and your preference. 

[fozcycle]

Rev, if you are remotely interested in trying 85 gram shafts, I can accommodate you. The shafts I pulled from the Bio Cells were Dynalite 85 s. Let me know if you want to try them.

[revkev]

@ Foz - I have 55,65,85,95,120 in iron shafts at home.   Thanks though .

 

I do understand where Jaskanski is coming from - preferred swing weight plus over all weight are significant here.  I know from my instructor that I have a fairly aggressive transition, not ridiculously so but aggressive enough.  I can't imagine that I want to go up 30-40 grams in the shaft - I'm thinking 20 is just right.  But we will see, I'll bring them to my next lesson and go from there.

[kfilly20]

I've had 1 fitting and the guy was just trying to get me in and out as fast as he could. Adjusted the lie up 1* and told me not to worry about adding a 1/4" in length as it wouldn't make a difference. Waste of time imo. One of these days I'll pay a couple hundred bucks for a real legitimate fitting. 

[PlaidJacket]

I've come to appreciate Rev's posting and comments these last few years. Lot's to be learned from this accomplished player guys. I'm not sure how I missed this post a while back.

 

I'm not knowledgeable enough to really add anything to Rev's questions. I most certainly agree Rev; that everyone serious about their game should have a complete proper fitting if you haven't already done so. It's a real eye opener and fun. You'll also end up with an incredible set of clubs regardless of what brand you end up choosing. One caveat. IMO, go into your fitting with an open mind as far as equipment is concerned. Let the fitting help determine your outcome.

[revkev]

As a follow up I took Jaskanskis advice and did a session with our clubs fitter who is also one of our instructors. Bottom line the Wilson's with the lighter shaft are in for now however both he and my regular instructor are pushing me towards a player's iron.

 

The rationale behind the decision is that with the longer and lighter I'm at a D3 in my irons which I seem to like. I center the ball very well on the club face but my swing speed isn't great so lighter, greater clu head speed, solid hits a bit more distance and very good trajectory with the irons. Also I hit the ball best when I'm quieter withmy transition and lighter helps there too.

 

All that said they both feel that I could play more shots and tighten my dispersion with a player's iron. My longest iron is only going to be a 5 or 6 any way.

[wbealsd]

IMO, go into your fitting with an open mind as far as equipment is concerned. Let the fitting help determine your outcome.

Definitely, if you've "fit yourself" before you see the fitter, they can't do you much good.

 

I would never have considered my Ping wedges, if I'd pre-selected the wedges I was willing to try at my fitting.  I didn't know what wedges I was trying during the fitting, until my fitter and I looked at the results and we both agreed on what wedges both felt and performed the best.  Knowing some of the brands they carried, I was actually surprised that turned out to be the Pings.

[revkev]

Given the choices in regards to differing lofts/lies/bounces/grinds what would lead a fitter to pick one brand over another for a particular player?

 

I have to confess that I'm confused on that one wbeal.  Did you try wedges or did they have you hitting shots and then a computer program made a recommendation?  How did that one work?

[wbealsd]

Given the choices in regards to differing lofts/lies/bounces/grinds what would lead a fitter to pick one brand over another for a particular player?

 

I have to confess that I'm confused on that one wbeal.  Did you try wedges or did they have you hitting shots and then a computer program made a recommendation?  How did that one work?

Rev,

 

First the fitter took a look at my current setup and we discussed my likes/dislikes and concerns with what I was using.  Then, after I warmed up, he observed me swing for him.

 

After watching me swing, Adam (the fitter) assembled some head/shaft combinations for me to try using impact tape on the soles and face of the test clubs.  I was just swinging what he handed me and commenting on the "feel" of each one while he examined the sole and face impacts.  After that, he assembled a few more test clubs and we continued the process.

 

There was one club that I definitely thought felt more solid at impact and he showed me the results of the impact tape with it, and compared it to the others.  It was definitely producing better results.

 

Considering the fitter carries Edel and Miura, had the fitter wanted to "steer me" into choosing more expensive wedges, he easily could have.  That said, both Totally Driven and 2nd Swing have good reputations and I feel like both fitters I saw that weekend were focused on helping me find what worked for ME and not just boosting their sales.

 

I ended up with stock Nike Groove wedges at considerably less cost than Edel or Miura at Totally Driven. At my putter fitting at 2nd Swing, Thomas simply adjusted the loft on the 3 putters I brought with me, once he determined they already fit me for length, lie and eyes to target.

 

We used more "science" at 2nd Swing, since I had the "Studio B" putter fitting with the video/computer analysis, but both fitters are very experienced and both produced the results I was hoping for.

[revkev]

Thanks -

[RookieBlue7]

There's exactly 1 fitter I'd put full confidence in being able to fit one without ever seeing them in person. Whether he does it online or via phone, I'd venture to say he could fit one with zero issues with that method.