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Driver Shaft Weight/Flex


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Due to a lack of club fitters close to me, I've never really had the opportunity to test different shafts in the same head. I also haven't really experimented much with acquiring different shafts to try since I've only been playing for a few years.

 

My biggest experiment was getting an Aldila RIP Phenom NL for my G25. It's the "60 S" model. 63 grams, 3.8 torque, stiff flex. I wanted something that would lower my flight and feel a bit more stable than the stock Ping TFC189 stiff shaft so it seemed like a logical starting point.

 

My natural shot shape is a draw and my misses are hooks.

 

I've been thinking more about driver shafts lately and have a few questions.

 

1. Will certain shafts promote different ball flights in terms of draws versus fades? I get that some are considered low launch versus high launch but I don't hear as much about directional differences.

 

2. If I stayed with the same shaft and went to the 70 gram model in the same flex what would the difference be versus staying with the 60 gram model and going to an X flex?

 

3. Torque confuses the hell out of me. My miss hits tend to be off the toe and when it happens and I can definitely feel twisting. Is that what torque is? And if I went to a lower torque shaft would it affect the flight of my miss hits?

 

I'm going to try to set up a session at my club where I can hit my G25 and 913 D2 with a bunch of different shafts and maybe find "the one" and get some launch monitor numbers to help with this discussion since I've only ever been on a launch monitor once.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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You just really need to get fitted it's worth it.  Anything else anyone says here is a guess really - I could guess at the answers to most of your questions but in the end I wouldn't know until you actually tried it.  It's more than swing speed, how does your swing load the shaft, what's your transition like, what's your AoA, etc., etc.

 

I drove 4 hours once for a driver fitting and then stayed over night so it was an expensive proposition.  It was worth it because I learned stuff about my swing and what works best for it that I didn't know prior. 

 

Sunday they were talking about LPGA players using R flex shafts in their drivers - I know we're guys here, we can't accept that the average LPGA player out drives the average guy on our forum but the reality is that if you haven't seen those gals play you don't have a sense of how well and how far they hit the ball and a reasonable percentage of them use an R flex in their drivers.  I get to hit balls pretty regularly on the range at the same time as a couple of LPGA players one of whom is exceptionally long, I think her average driving distance this year is 270, the other of whom is "average", 245 or so.  It's shot after shot on the screws with those gals.  The one has an X flex the other an R flex in her driver.   

 

Who knows maybe heavier but weaker is the right way because of your swing characteristics.  A good fitter would know the answer and then you would too once and for all.  It's nice to remove the element of doubt from the equation - then you know it's the Indian. 

 

I guess you could fit yourself if you knew your numbers, video'd your swing so that you knew your characteristics and then knew the available products well enough to be able to come up with the proper shaft/head combo.  But if you laid out a few bucks and got fit you'd save a lot of time.

 

Good luck!

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I'm with Rev about getting fitted but I can give you one of the answers you want. Ignore torque rating for the most part. It is measured differently by everyone so there is no industry standard. Someone's 2.0 may be someone else's 4.0

 

I will let more qualified ppl than myself answer the rest. Torque rating just seems to be something that Joe schmo needs not worry about. Instead look at bend profiles. I've always found them more helpful.

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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I guess you could fit yourself if you knew your numbers, video'd your swing so that you knew your characteristics and then knew the available products well enough to be able to come up with the proper shaft/head combo.  But if you laid out a few bucks and got fit you'd save a lot of time.

Prolly save money in the long run as well. I still have a crapload of stuff I need to sell off. Spent waaaay too much on drivers and shafts the last 2 years.

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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I'm with Rev about getting fitted but I can give you one of the answers you want. Ignore torque rating for the most part. It is measured differently by everyone so there is no industry standard. Someone's 2.0 may be someone else's 4.0

I will let more qualified ppl than myself answer the rest. Torque rating just seems to be something that Joe schmo needs not worry about. Instead look at bend profiles. I've always found them more helpful.

That's true about torque but it's also true about flex. It was amazing what I learned about my equipment during my full bag fitting like the shafts in my irons came out in the middle of the x range even though they were marked S or my hybrids in the R range even though they were marked S. Different OEMs different specs.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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That's true about torque but it's also true about flex. It was amazing what I learned about my equipment during my full bag fitting like the shafts in my irons came out in the middle of the x range even though they were marked S or my hybrids in the R range even though they were marked S. Different OEMs different specs.

Very true! That's why I look at bend profiles more now. I don't understand them like some around here do but I get a better idea of what I'm looking at.

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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+1 on going for a fitting as it is worth it.  I went and did a driver fitting this year and was surprised at what I ended up with since it would not have been a combo that I would have picked for myself without a side by side comparison.  I did a mini fitting last year for a driver and it did not work well outside of the day I got fit.  Everything that I had heard about the GD AD DI made it seem like a shaft that was made for me and well I never got along with it.  My miss on that fitting was that I was a stubborn SOB and had my shaft picked out before I went in and that is what they put me into with no real comparison.  I now have a driver with a very expensive shaft that is pretty much useless to me.

WITB 2024

   Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60g 6.5

   M5 15* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5

   Sim Ti 22* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5

   Sim2 Rescue 22* Diamana Thump 100x

   X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX 

   Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

   Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75"

   Z Star Diamond

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+1 on going for a fitting as it is worth it.  I went and did a driver fitting this year and was surprised at what I ended up with since it would not have been a combo that I would have picked for myself without a side by side comparison.  I did a mini fitting last year for a driver and it did not work well outside of the day I got fit.  Everything that I had heard about the GD AD DI made it seem like a shaft that was made for me and well I never got along with it.  My miss on that fitting was that I was a stubborn SOB and had my shaft picked out before I went in and that is what they put me into with no real comparison.  I now have a driver with a very expensive shaft that is pretty much useless to me.[/quot

 

I think many of us do this. The lower the handicap sometimes, the worse it is because it's so hard to shave those last few off even if the last few are tenths of index points.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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+1 on going for a fitting as it is worth it. I went and did a driver fitting this year and was surprised at what I ended up with since it would not have been a combo that I would have picked for myself without a side by side comparison. I did a mini fitting last year for a driver and it did not work well outside of the day I got fit. Everything that I had heard about the GD AD DI made it seem like a shaft that was made for me and well I never got along with it. My miss on that fitting was that I was a stubborn SOB and had my shaft picked out before I went in and that is what they put me into with no real comparison. I now have a driver with a very expensive shaft that is pretty much useless to me.

Which addi is it? Lol

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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1. Will certain shafts promote different ball flights in terms of draws versus fades? I get that some are considered low launch versus high launch but I don't hear as much about directional differences.

 

 

 

Yes and no. Shafts are designed to have similar playing properties in all orientations (as per the rules of golf) so any directional bias is not allowed. However, due to the variable flex and flex point that may be present in any shaft, it's also possible to enhance any swing trait that tends to favour a certain face angle and/or loft through impact. In general terms (but by no means certain) more flexible shafts tend to promote draws (or hooks) and stiffer shafts tend to promote fades (or slices) for the same right-handed golfer, if that shaft is somewhat out of his or her performance window.

 

 

 

 

 

2. If I stayed with the same shaft and went to the 70 gram model in the same flex what would the difference be versus staying with the 60 gram model and going to an X flex?

 

 

 

Shaft weight is probably the most overlooked aspect of shaft fitting next to shaft length. Flex is the last fitting component really. If the shaft is not fitted in terms of weight and length, then the flex will probably be   irrelevant too. Again generally speaking within the same product line, a heavier shaft will tend to be stiffer and lower launching than it's lighter counterpart in the same flex category. Once you move into another flex category, the whole flex progression goes out of the window in terms of weight and you are left without a clue of where your preference should be. So - get fit for weight first. it is imperative that you find the weight shaft that you feel comfortable to swing back, to the top, in transition and through impact. Without it, you are leaving a huge question mark to the next fitting step - correct length. And without the correct length, you cannot fit the correct flex. So fit weight, then length, then flex last to get the best out of your swing (and your potential PTR or smash factor).

 

 

3. Torque confuses the hell out of me. My miss hits tend to be off the toe and when it happens and I can definitely feel twisting. Is that what torque is? And if I went to a lower torque shaft would it affect the flight of my miss hits?

 

 

Torque is probably one of the biggest misnomers in shaft fitting. For one, it's a completely inaccurate description of what a shaft does (torque is a unit of force - not of angular deflection) so any shaft described as having low or high "torque" is completely misleading. And secondly (and probably more importantly) it has no influence WHATSOEVER in club head twisting and mis-hits. "Torque", for want of a better word is simply a measure of how a shaft feels to the individual at impact. Low torque shafts tend to feel harsher and stiffer at impact, whereas high torque shaft tend to feel softer and smoother at impact. This is basically incidental to a shaft design, because a stiffer shaft will tend to have more plys of fibre in it's manufacture, leading to thicker shaft walls, leading to a stiffer profile, leading to a harsher feel. The opposite will tend to be true for higher torque shafts. But in no way will the torque rating have any influence on ball direction given the integrity of the golfers swing. If you're missing it left or right, then it's probably a factor of the other fitting parameters discussed (i.e. weight, length, flex) and not the torque that's doing the damage - remember the tendencies of the shaft profiles discussed. 

Until the day when any OEM cares to inform us all how torque directly has any bearing on shaft performance (other than feel) then it's probably best to ignore it, but since nobody can tell us how the torque is actually quantified, measured, applied to the shafts longitudinal axis and adjusted per length fitted and the head weight of the club in question - that day is pretty much some way off lol.

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Awesome info guys, thanks. I intend on getting fitted for a driver, or at least trying a bunch of different shafts in my G25 and 913 D2 heads.

 

Just wanted to get a general answer to some of the questions I had before I go in so that I at least have a better understand of what's going on.

 

Going to try to set something up for this week with the head pro at my club. He just built a fitting center with a trackman and all that good stuff. The big benefit is that it's on our range so I can hit real balls and see the whole flight and get the additional info from the launch monitor.

 

I'll try to get to some pictures, info, and numbers to bring back here before I make any final decisions.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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I agree with everyone who said to get fit because that is the best way to get what is right for you. Also when you get a set up that feels good, get the CPM numbers, shaft length, swing weight and stuff like that so down the road you can get a similar set up with other shafts, or at least have a starting point. One thing that I have noticed is no matter what manufacturer you go with every shaft comes in just a little bit different then the other. It seems like the higher end brands have tighter gaps but they still all differ. I'm probably too picky when it comes to my driver shafts because I'm not a good enough golfer to be able to tell but at least in my head I think it's the set up I need.

Driver:  :ping-small: G30 9*

 

Irons:  :callaway-small:  X-Forged 3-PW

 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX 2.0 52*

                :ping-small:  Glide 58*

 

Putter:   :taylormade-small: Itsy-Bitsy Spider

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I present for your viewing enjoyment Tom Wishon...

 

 

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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PJ that's a great video. I always appreciate your point of view. My instructor uses all Wishon clubs. I won't say that I'm not a fan. Over the past few weeks I've been trying to swing at 80% at the request of my swing instructors. I can't do it. It gives me too much time to think about stuff. My whole life playing baseball I had an "aggressive" swing. It probably sounds dumb but if I just swing hard and don't think about anything I play better. I did that today and shot 81 versus my 80% swing the other day when I shot 90. Not to mention it just feels natural to swing hard.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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For all you shaft experts out there; meet another expert.

 

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Plaid I do think that our experts, guys like Jasakanski or Mmmmmmbuddy (however m's there really are) know who Wishon is.    I do appreciate the links to the videos.  I'm impressed, maybe someday I'll figure out how to do that. :)

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Haaa. I'm not saying we don't have guys here that know their stuff. We do. I just put those vids out there for everyone. I know nothing about shafts and quite frankly don't really care about them much. I just want shafts what work for me. I'm no fitter. Hope everyone that takes the time to watch them enjoys them. I did.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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They're great - I've watched most of his stuff - he sure ticked a lot of people off when he first came on the scene with his message of - you don't hit it as far as you think you do and you need different equipment from the guys on tour and also different equipment from what the OEM's are places on the rack.

 

Great stuff - it's because of Wishon that I've started seeking out guys like Jaskanski.  Those extra, easier yards with the driver are critical for me - I especially notice that this time of year when any miss is exacerbated by the no roll rule - I can get away with being a little hooky in the winter/spring - 180 carry, 40 yard roll out doesn't kill you - now?  180 yard carry on a 380 yard hole sucks. 

 

So the right head/shaft combination are huge for me - if I can get that 210 carry 80 percent of the time I have a fighting chance to play my course.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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