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It has been my observation that when athletic young women take up golf, they often spray the sphere around pretty good with the cut-down fly rods  that come with their new clubs.  While young ladies rarely try to bypass lessons like their testosterone addled contemporaries, they often don't get fitted for their first clubs which are as likely as not gifts or hand me downs.

 

A young lady that knows her way around a field hockey or soccer pitch, or a softball diamond, or a basketball or volleyball court can probably play better with my R-flex clubs than with the shafts that come on womens' model new clubs.  If she has an aptitude for the game, S-flex is what most lady tournament players hit.

 

A healthy young lady less athletically inclined is probably strong enough for A-flex.  L-flex is probably better for later on in life.

 

What made me notice this was a pair of athletic young girls that I played behind one day this summer.  They both had pretty decent looking swings, but they both hit curveballs in both, not one direction.  It looked as though they were dealing with more torque than they needed. When I caught up to them on the tee of a par three, one was playing a forty year old set of Lynx Tigresses that probably belonged to her mom and the other had new Ping Rhapsodies with pastel colored shafts.

 

How do you club builders out there fit young women golfers? Do most of them really need L-flex?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I can't answer your question. I know of quite a few lady golfers in a wide range of age. I think I'll ask some when I see them. I'd probably be interesting.

As you might have noticed Nifty. There aren't any women in our forum/community. Certainly none that I've seen or been aware of.

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OK, story coming...

 

I met my wife about 14 years ago, so that would make her about 46 at the time (don't tell her I said this).  Her background -  she started playing golf when she was 8 years old; dad was scratch and club champion at 3 private clubs; mom played; so did her 5 older brothers and older sister.  In high school in the early 70's she played on the golf team and lugged around her mother's PowerBilt woods and blades in a bright yellow leather bag (we still have the clubs and the bag)!

 

When we met she was still playing the PowerBilts.  I called her Bam Bam from the Flintstones!  Her swing speed was obviously not what it was in her school days and she was giving up a lot of distance.  So I talked her into going to the local golf shop (Nevada Bob's at the time, I think).  There was a nice young man that helped her, and he went to get a few drivers for her to try out while she warmed up on the range.  He had set up a swing speed indicator (not sure what it was but this was maybe in 2002).  He came back with 4 different drivers in L flex, took one look at the swing speed and turned around and took them back.  She ended up with a Cobra SS350 driver and irons in Regular flex graphite.  

 

In 2009 she replaced the Cobras with TaylorMade Burner XD irons and an R9 driver in A-flex.  The R9 came when we were in Palm Springs and she wanted to try some Cobra hybrids.  We bought them in L-flex with a guarantee that if she didn't like them, she could bring them back.  The next day was a horrible round!!  She could not hit those "whippy things"!  Back they went and the two clubs were the same price as the R9.

 

This was also about the time when she had back surgery (L5-S1 fusion).  She is still playing the burner irons but swing speed is much less and she has replaced her driver with an RBZ Stage 2 in L-flex.  I am not sure if she will ever trade out her Burner irons for L-flex; maybe one day.

 

I suspect that any woman that is fairly athletic will need at least A-flex or Regular and I would certainly recommend graphite.  A question to consider is what weight graphite to use.  That's where the fitting comes in.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I think that everyone starts somewhere, if the ladies are going to be serious about playing, and play often, then getting a fitting might be worth it, but of they are only playing recreationally a coupe time a year, what's the point of fitting, to me that would be a waste of time and money.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I don't know any ladies that play only a couple of times a year, but I do know about 20 ladies that play 3-4 times a week. I bet there are only 2 or 3 that have had a fitting.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I bet there are only 2 or 3 that have had a fitting.

 

Not just ladies, but golfers in general.

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Fairway: :Sub70: 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :Sub70: 939X 3 Hybrid Project X Even Flow Riptide 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
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It has been my observation that when athletic young women take up golf, they often spray the sphere around pretty good with the cut-down fly rods  that come with their new clubs.  While young ladies rarely try to bypass lessons like their testosterone addled contemporaries, they often don't get fitted for their first clubs which are as likely as not gifts or hand me downs.

 

A young lady that knows her way around a field hockey or soccer pitch, or a softball diamond, or a basketball or volleyball court can probably play better with my R-flex clubs than with the shafts that come on womens' model new clubs.  If she has an aptitude for the game, S-flex is what most lady tournament players hit.

 

A healthy young lady less athletically inclined is probably strong enough for A-flex.  L-flex is probably better for later on in life.

 

What made me notice this was a pair of athletic young girls that I played behind one day this summer.  They both had pretty decent looking swings, but they both hit curveballs in both, not one direction.  It looked as though they were dealing with more torque than they needed. When I caught up to them on the tee of a par three, one was playing a forty year old set of Lynx Tigresses that probably belonged to her mom and the other had new Ping Rhapsodies with pastel colored shafts.

 

How do you club builders out there fit young women golfers? Do most of them really need L-flex?

 

Oh dear. 

Reading your post (twice) it does sound just a little bit sexist. You probably stopped short of saying "should they play pink clubs?"

The truth of the matter is rather more simple: women, (the same as men, juniors, seniors, the disabled - whatever) require the same thing. That is the best shaft suited to their swing. That is not a specific category because quite simply there isn't one. There is no such thing as "regular" of "stiff" or "ladies" flex, only the manufacturers decide how to categorise such products - and they have no idea who the end-user is going to be in either terms of ability or gender. Therefore when fitting any individual for a shaft, there is no such thing as a "general" category someone would fall into, but only the correct flex (and profile) that suits and compliments their swing style and preferred ball flight.

In response to the last part of your question: we fit women the same as anybody else. Do most of them really need L-flex? Again, what is the definition of L-flex? A good fitter needs to look a bit further than the label.

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Twice? Did you even really read the post once, j?

 

I commented that I saw athletic young women with good swings hitting shots that looked like their shafts were too torquey;   and, that a girl who played field hockey or soccer or softball or  basketball in school is probably too strong for most L-flex shafts and probably won't need them until she's a senior like me.

 

If I gave the impression of being either sexist or misogynist, then I communicated the exact opposite of what I meant to do.  But I doubt that I did.

 

 

 

 

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When my wife learned to play she fit into men's S flex in the woods and hybrids and R300s in the irons.  Her first set was a box set from Dick's and she hit it all over creation until we got her settled in.  Fortunately for me I had a club maker that we trusted and he did a nice job of getting her some gear that worked well.  The real challenge with her is that she is just over six feet tall and left handed......not the easiest female to fit into a set of clubs.  

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Shaft designation is a tricky issue as all companies have different shaft profiles which equals flex designation. A friend of mine in Chicago who was in the manufacturing end with head (at the time were winning the long drive competitions) and shafts played one of his shafts in a L flex because it suited his swing and tempo with a 108 mph swingspeed, go figure :) It is really all about getting fit to what works best for you. He also knows the game of golf as he got his PGA credentials as a 13 year old which at that time was the youngest around but like many tried the mini tour scene and wasn't good enough to go further.

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Lady stopped in the store a couple weeks ago and asked if she should be playing an "L" or "A" shaft as she had been told the "L" was for women and the "A" was for men.  I told her the club head had no idea whether she shaved her face or her legs.  Her husband looked at me and had to turn away as he was shaking from holding a laughing fit.  For starters, there is no standard in the shaft industry and the little "A,L,M,R,S,X,XX" or whatever means not much.  Any one who has access to a CPM measuring device can tell you that those fishing poles that come in golf clubs today are not what they claim to be.  I am speaking primarily about composite material shafts in drivers, fairway, and hybrid clubs. 

 

A cheap shaft is a cheap shaft.  Most club manufacturers buy their shafts from the lowest bidder.  Unfortunately, people believe what they see printed on their shaft.  Fellow this week had a shaft in a major brand club that had "made for X" on a sticker near the tip.  It was a pretty sticker.  The shaft was not close to the flex printed midway up near the grip.  He wanted to know if we could get him another shaft like his for a different club.  After explaining that we could not buy "made for" shafts he learned more about what he had and that the flex and weight could be matched to his satisfaction.

 

The point being approached here is that the shaft weight, length, CPM or flex points are best fitted to a golfer as tested on a flight monitor and tried on a golf course.  Difficult to determine with beginners or those who seldom play is what might be a favorite club.  If a favorite club is determined there becomes a basis for what the remainder of the set might need to be.  It is guess work based on testing, experience, and seeing the real swing.  Pink shafts don't know what is shaved, just look at Bubba and Paula.  Neither hit an "L" shaft.

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Lady stopped in the store a couple weeks ago and asked if she should be playing an "L" or "A" shaft as she had been told the "L" was for women and the "A" was for men.  I told her the club head had no idea whether she shaved her face or her legs.  Her husband looked at me and had to turn away as he was shaking from holding a laughing fit.  For starters, there is no standard in the shaft industry and the little "A,L,M,R,S,X,XX" or whatever means not much.  Any one who has access to a CPM measuring device can tell you that those fishing poles that come in golf clubs today are not what they claim to be.  I am speaking primarily about composite material shafts in drivers, fairway, and hybrid clubs. 

 

A cheap shaft is a cheap shaft.  Most club manufacturers buy their shafts from the lowest bidder.  Unfortunately, people believe what they see printed on their shaft.  Fellow this week had a shaft in a major brand club that had "made for X" on a sticker near the tip.  It was a pretty sticker.  The shaft was not close to the flex printed midway up near the grip.  He wanted to know if we could get him another shaft like his for a different club.  After explaining that we could not buy "made for" shafts he learned more about what he had and that the flex and weight could be matched to his satisfaction.

 

The point being approached here is that the shaft weight, length, CPM or flex points are best fitted to a golfer as tested on a flight monitor and tried on a golf course.  Difficult to determine with beginners or those who seldom play is what might be a favorite club.  If a favorite club is determined there becomes a basis for what the remainder of the set might need to be.  It is guess work based on testing, experience, and seeing the real swing.  Pink shafts don't know what is shaved, just look at Bubba and Paula.  Neither hit an "L" shaft.

Great post, I had a golf shop I'd like to visit and the owner said the same thing, the letters on the shafts meant nothing, he would test the flexes in his frequency measuring device on his new deliveries from OEMs and if the cpms weren't right he would send them right back. He found shafts with S with cpms in the L range especially in fairway woods and hybrids.

Respectfully,
DHUCK WHOOKER

 

 

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I think that if one is seriously into the game, especially if beyond the mortgage and kids' tuitions part of one's life, one is not likely to be gaming OEM standard equipment graphite shafts. Those truly are all over the place. 

 

 

It's not like the days when almost everybody played True Temper Dynamics (pre-Gold) or Brunswick Micro-Tapers. 

 

Those were what they were, because the ones that came on one's clubs were identical to the ones on the aftermarket.  Otherwise, TT would not allow the "Dynamic" shaft band to be used. Store clubs, on the other hand, had TT and Brunswick shaft bands that no pro shop would even recognize.

 

But as I write this, I realize that at least two-thirds of the forum is too young to remember those days.  In the words of the late, great Gilda Radner, "Never mind!"

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

you fit the ladies just the like the guys. Make sure to have some good A and R type shaft available.

Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is really interesting for me. My 15 year old daughter is tall and reasonably athletic. All her clubs are L flex, her driver is a TM R11. Recently she was at a golf development camp, and the kids were hitting each other's drivers. She hit one of the boys R flex driver better than hers. I've got a Proforce V2 Senior flex shaft lying around, so I'll get a TM R11 tip put on it so she can trial it.

 

I've been holding off a full fitting for her until her growing slows, which finally it seems to be at 5'10"

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:cobra-small: F8 3 & 5 Woods Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0

:titelist-small: TS2 7 Wood Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0
:mizuno-small:  MP18 MMC - Project X LZ 5.5
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This is really interesting for me. My 15 year old daughter is tall and reasonably athletic. All her clubs are L flex, her driver is a TM R11. Recently she was at a golf development camp, and the kids were hitting each other's drivers. She hit one of the boys R flex driver better than hers. I've got a Proforce V2 Senior flex shaft lying around, so I'll get a TM R11 tip put on it so she can trial it.

 

I've been holding off a full fitting for her until her growing slows, which finally it seems to be at 5'10"

She should be ready for static fitting for length and lie, but the flex will need to be based on swing speed among other factors.  If she is hitting the R flex better than the L flex, it's time for a change and it should be done soon.  The UST ProForce V2 is a great shaft and she will probably hit it better than the L flex, but it may still not be the right shaft for her, and then the other clubs still need to be changed too.  

 

When my wife turned 50 about 9 years ago, she was playing regular flex, but she switched to senior in her irons.  She tried L flex in Cobra hybrids and hated it; lost distance, but last year she finally switched to L flex in her TM woods/hybrids, and it is a better fit now.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I'll see how she goes with a spare 12* Nickent 4DX head on another UST Proforce V2 in reg flex. It might be an interesting experiment.

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:ping-small:  G400 SFT Aldila Xtorsion Copper Stiff
:cobra-small: F8 3 & 5 Woods Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0

:titelist-small: TS2 7 Wood Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0
:mizuno-small:  MP18 MMC - Project X LZ 5.5
:cleveland-small: Zipcore Wedges 50,54,58 - Project X LZ 5.5
MLA Tour Mallet 33"
:srixon-small:  Z Star
:ping-small: Pioneer bag
:Clicgear: buggy

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My daughter had a hit of the above driver, and hit my 9 iron once. Hit both with good contact and ball flight. She commented that she felt she could just swing the driver.

 

Might have some expense coming my way soon.

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:ping-small:  G400 SFT Aldila Xtorsion Copper Stiff
:cobra-small: F8 3 & 5 Woods Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0

:titelist-small: TS2 7 Wood Project X Evenflow Blue 6.0
:mizuno-small:  MP18 MMC - Project X LZ 5.5
:cleveland-small: Zipcore Wedges 50,54,58 - Project X LZ 5.5
MLA Tour Mallet 33"
:srixon-small:  Z Star
:ping-small: Pioneer bag
:Clicgear: buggy

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My daughter had a hit of the above driver, and hit my 9 iron once. Hit both with good contact and ball flight. She commented that she felt she could just swing the driver.

 

Might have some expense coming my way soon.

That's the way with kids, but just the start of many expenses for a daughter!   :D

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Lets face it, ladies don't the attention the guys get when it comes to the equipment. The women golfers we are talking about here are taller, stronger and smarter about the game.

I rarely put on Ladies grips on ladies clubs. Men's standard or even midsize are more the norm.

same goes with shafts and the shaft lengths. typical shaft flexes range in the A to R and mostly a 1/2 shorter than men's standard lengths.

 

Fit them like anyone else and watch them play better

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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