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Disabled Golfer Sues Private Club for Discrimination


GolfSpy Barbajo

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I grew up watching this guy deliver the sports news on TV back in Boston.  He's back in the news again.

 

What do you think of this lawsuit? He acknowledges he can play lots of other courses, but the story is about discrimination.  Is it discrimination? 

 

Bob Lobel Sues Newton Golf Course For Discrimination November 11, 2015 7:08 PM

BOSTON (CBSicon1.png) – For former WBZ-TV sports anchor Bob Lobel, golf is everything. But nowadays, he can only play using a specialized golf cart.

 

“It's just been such a big part of my life,” Lobel says.

 

Lobel uses the Solo cart at numerous golficon1.png courses but, but Woodland Golf Club in Newton will not allow it. They say it hurts the greens, but Lobel says they're wrong.

 

lobel11.jpg?w=630&h=354

Former WBZ sports anchor Bob Lobel (WBZ-TV)

“It's lighter than mowers,” he says. “I've been using this cart for six years at Granite Links.”

 

So now, under the Americans with Disabilities Act, Lobel is suing the club.

 

“It is covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act and it is also covered by a variety of state and federal civil rights acts and equal accommodation and equal access acts,” attorneyicon1.png Jeffrey Denner says.

 

The club issued a statement saying, “The golf carticon1.png caused significant impressions and tears on the greens…. Damage to our greens represents an unreasonable burden to hundreds of members.”

 

Lobel says the problem is much deeper.

 

“This came from, I'm convinced, a lack of understanding,” Lobel says. “Then it went to a willingness to not understand.”

 

Lobel says this is not about the greens or the fairways or the bunkers, he says this is all about access for somebody with a disability.

 

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  :titelist-small:TSR3; :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR Carbon
FW Wood: :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR 3-wood; :titleist-small: TSR 2+
Hybrids:  PXG Gen4 18-degree
Utility Irons: :srixon-small: ZX MkII 20* 
Irons:;  :Sub70:699/699 Pro V2 Combo; :wilson_staff_small: D9 Forged;  :macgregor-small:MT86 (coming soon!); :macgregor-small: VIP 1025 V-Foil MB/CB; 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX6 Zipcore
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Milled 10.5;  :scotty-small: Newport Special Select;  :edel-golf-1:  Willamette,  :bettinardi-small: BB8; :wilson-small: 8802; MATI Monto

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B RXS; :srixon-small: Z-STAR Diamond; :wilson_staff_small: Triad

Stat Tracker/GPS Watch: :ShotScope:


 
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Here's the video

 

 

 

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  :titelist-small:TSR3; :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR Carbon
FW Wood: :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR 3-wood; :titleist-small: TSR 2+
Hybrids:  PXG Gen4 18-degree
Utility Irons: :srixon-small: ZX MkII 20* 
Irons:;  :Sub70:699/699 Pro V2 Combo; :wilson_staff_small: D9 Forged;  :macgregor-small:MT86 (coming soon!); :macgregor-small: VIP 1025 V-Foil MB/CB; 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX6 Zipcore
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Milled 10.5;  :scotty-small: Newport Special Select;  :edel-golf-1:  Willamette,  :bettinardi-small: BB8; :wilson-small: 8802; MATI Monto

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B RXS; :srixon-small: Z-STAR Diamond; :wilson_staff_small: Triad

Stat Tracker/GPS Watch: :ShotScope:


 
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You have no idea how close to my heart this story is.  We pretend to want to allow equal access for folks with disabilities - the reality is that we don't.

 

Frankly I'm exhausted by it.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I do not mean to be insensitive to people with disabilities but there is not enough information available from that video to make a good judgement call on this forum as to who is right.  

 

Golf courses; be them public, semi-private, private; are praised or criticized first by the condition of their greens.  If the greens have issues...everyone for miles around will know.

 

What we do not have available to us is visual proof or expert opinion of the impact of the cart on the greens in question.  I have played golf all over the world and greens are different. Not just different from one state to another but different one club next door to another.  In the South where we mainly have bermuda or hybrid bermuda greens...doubt this man's cart would be an issue.  You can walk on someone's line and as long as you are not dragging your feet...no one will really notice.  Just no indentations.  Now, you do that farther north, especially where greens are bentgrass, footprints are left and can be seen easily.  You must be careful walking around on the greens.  I also tend to find those greens to be much softer.  Again, need more visible or expert opinion proof.  

Check out www.littlejohngolfleague.com a Greater Houston Traveling Golf League

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I don't know how he was treated in person by the course but I think this simply boils down to if the greens are damaged or not. Simple as that for this specific situation. 

Driver - Tour Edge Exotics XCG 7 Beta w/ Paderson shaft 44"

Fairway Metal - :nike-small: Vapor Fly 15* w/ Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue 65F 43"

Irons - :taylormade-small: SLDR 4i-pw w/ KBS Tour C-Taper 90S

Wedges - :edel-golf-1: 54* and 58* Digger grind

Putter - :scotty-cameron-1: 2015 GoLo 3 33"

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I'm with Rick here. There isn't enough information to really make an informed decision one way or another. I believe that everyone should have the right to play golf whether disabled or otherwise. However I also believe that if the course is being damaged to do so then it isn't fair for any other members/players. This is a very tricky situation where I believe we would actually need to see the results of the cart driven on the course and greens under different circumstances and conditions. 

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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Life isn't fair. They say it damages their course. The right of refusal to service any customer is that of a business's that should be protected. If he agrees to sign a contract with the stipulation he pays for any and all damages caused by his cart and reimburse the members pursuant to that damage, then by all means. But if this course is private, he doesn't have a case anyway.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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The club issued a statement saying, “The golf carticon1.png caused significant impressions and tears on the greens…. Damage to our greens represents an unreasonable burden to hundreds of members.”

 

Well if that's true then I don't see why it should be allowed. He can't demand that he be allowed to 'cause significant impressions and tears on the greens.' That's not fair to everyone else, especially the course owners who have every right to protect their property and their business's competitiveness.

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I'm with Rick here. There isn't enough information to really make an informed decision one way or another. I believe that everyone should have the right to play golf whether disabled or otherwise. However I also believe that if the course is being damaged to do so then it isn't fair for any other members/players. This is a very tricky situation where I believe we would actually need to see the results of the cart driven on the course and greens under different circumstances and conditions. 

Agree.  I've played on Tiff-Eagle bermuda greens in Florida that could probably survive a tank driving on them and on much softer bent and poa annua greens out west here where you wouldn't want someone rolling a push card over them much less a driveable one.

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Here's the rub gents - whether you like it or not there are laws that protect the disabled against discrimination - it really shouldn't come to this - there should have been some way for the club to accommodate a disabled member without an ensuing lawsuit.

 

I would agree that we don't have the full body of evidence but if this guy were a member and the club allowed him membership knowing about the conditions of his disability they will have trouble if ever it comes to court.  

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Mr. Lobel is not a member of the Woodland Golf Club.  He played the course at the invitation of a member before he was disabled.  Even though Woodland is a private club, it regularly hosts special events including charity golf tournaments that are open to the public.  That makes the club publicly accessible during those events.  

 

Not only is Mr. Lobel suing for use of the golf course using the special cart, he is also suing to require Woodland GC to provide those special carts during play.  So, how many of those special disability carts does a typical public golf club need provide to not get sued?  How many does your club have?

 

I suspect that Woodland will lose the suit unless it can demonstrate that use of the cart on the greens will damage to the greens significantly above the damage caused by the typical golfer resulting in a undue burden on the club and its members.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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It's kind of hard not to sound harsh and uncaring, which I'm not but, I can understand the golf course's argument. If it tears up the greens and leaves impressions, I really don't see how they should be made to let him drive a cart on them.

 

Rev, in what way could they accommodate him without letting him drive a cart on the greens? I'm sympathetic to his plight but, I can't support what he wants to do if it means other players have to deal with the consequences of torn up greens and the expense to the golf course to repair them every time he plays.

 

This is a slippery slope because of the Americans with Disabilities Act.  This will be interesting to follow.

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While he may prevail in court I don't think its a slam dunk.  The ADA has provisions to protect businesses from incurring undue costs to comply.  A couple of questions and answers from the ADA.gov site  (http://www.ada.gov/q&aeng02.htm) from the Public Accommodation section

 

Q. Must alternative steps be taken without regard to cost?

A.
 No, only readily achievable alternative steps must be undertaken.

 

Q. What does the term "readily achievable" mean?

A. It means "easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense."

 

So, if the club can demonstrate that his cart damages the greens and then show the cost to make all 18 greens so they are not damaged they may get a judge to agree that it is not "readily achievable".  At any rate there does appear to be some wiggle room in the act for the club to make an argument against.

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I don't have a dog in this fight other than I do believe that private clubs should be allowed to make their own rules regardless of my personal beliefs.  Garden City near me has a men's club and it would not be somewhere personally that I would even consider joining for a lot of reasons.  I would feel a lot different on the issue if it were a public course, but if it is private and he is not a member then I tend to agree with the club.  I do feel for the guy in that he loves the game and has found a way that with his condition he can still enjoy playing it.

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It sounds as if the club has conducted some type of test if they say that it damages the greens.  If they haven't and are just speculating, they should and they should do it under all types of conditions.  For example, compare foot traffic to that of the cart on wet greens where the damage might be more significant.

 

He is requesting a trial by jury, obviously in an attempt to solicit juror sympathy.  If the club loses, then I could see them eliminating all public events at the club which would be a shame for the charities that they support.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Discrimination by a PRIVATE club? Really? Go play all the other courses that you're allowed to play. Grow up and move on. I'm sick of this lawsuit happy society we live in.

Driver -  :taylormade-small: M1 9.5* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Fairway -   :taylormade-small: M1 5W 19* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 70X

Hybrids -   :ping-small: G25 4H 23*

Irons -  :mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-PW w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Wedges - :mizuno-small: S5 50*07, 54*12, 58*12 w/ Nippon N.S. Pro 1150S

Putter - Oddyssey Metal-X #7 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 2.0

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Discrimination by a PRIVATE club? Really? Go play all the other courses that you're allowed to play. Grow up and move on. I'm sick of this lawsuit happy society we live in.

You should come to NY and see the gems that come across my desk and I am only the CFO not counsel.

WITB 2024

   Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60g 6.5

   M5 15* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5

   Sim Ti 22* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5

   Sim2 Rescue 22* Diamana Thump 100x

   X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX 

   Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

   Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75"

   Z Star Diamond

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I stand behind the ADA, but I believe it includes the stipulation concerning reasonable cost to accommodate. The club must show what the cost to accommodate would be.

Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or  ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707,   or Nike Method Core Drone  w/Evnroll Gravity Grip

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder

 

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Hey if you can't get your way in America... Sue. To get your way. The story admits he plays many other course where he is allowed. Why can't he just accept that and move on? I'm sick of it quite frankly.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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So when the greens become damaged and they lose members, which will happen with the damage to the greens, is he going to pick up the tab? Sorry, but I still say it's a private course, ADA or not, they don't have to allow anyone in that they don't want to. That's the reason for having a private club. If this goes through and he wins, there will be lawsuits against Augusta National, Pine Valley, etc. They're private as well. I'm sympathetic to those with disabilities but being disabled does not give one the right to invade a private club. They lose, they should put up a for sale sign immediately. Because the loss of members will be catastrophic to the bottom line. They should go ahead and implement a preferred tee time policy now and set it up for selection by tenure. All the prime slots will be gone and he'll be playing on sun baked fairways and greens that'll be at their hardest of the day. That would mitigate the damage the most. I would also implement strict pace of play times now.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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While I don't share HIS disability, I DO have a severe enough hearing loss to be considered legally "disabled" under the ADA.  FWIW, I think most of us that have some form of disability realize our own limitations, and what accommodations are reasonable.

 

Unfortunately, there are some that think the legal system can "fix" the reality they have to live with.

 

As this is a private club, I feel strongly the decision should be up to them.

 

If I had to use the legal system to FORCE a business to afford me service, WHY would I want to do business with them at all?

What's In the Bag

Driver - :callaway-small: GBB 

Hybrids  :cleveland-small: Halo XL Halo 18* & :cobra-small: T-Rail 20*

Irons  :cobra-small: T-Rail 2.0

Wedges :ping-small: 60* TS / SCOR 48* 53* 58*

Putter     :scotty-small:

Ball :callaway-logo-1:

Bag Datrek DG Lite  

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Everyone seems to be missing the point.  Yes, it's a private club but it holds public functions.  Think of this:  The Club sponsors a golf scramble for a local hospital charity and it is open to the public; anyone is eligible to play in the event.  He played there before his disability, but now he can't play in it because the Club doesn't accommodate his disability.  Should they?  But at what expense?

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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He's a partially disabled activist. If my lawn mower is disabled it doesn't work. At all. My lawn mower may be partially disabled because the power drive feature doesn't work. But it still cuts the grass. Look, I'm all for helping someone who needs accommodation or assistance in certain situations. But please... if I'm going to make special accommodation for you so you can drive your scooter right up next to the edge of the green don't feel like you are being down wrong by insisting that's not good enough by suing me because I won't let you drive your scooter/golf cart across the greens. How about showing some respect and accommodation for the rest of us? Hmmm?

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Everyone seems to be missing the point.  Yes, it's a private club but it holds public functions.  Think of this:  The Club sponsors a golf scramble for a local hospital charity and it is open to the public; anyone is eligible to play in the event.  He played there before his disability, but now he can't play in it because the Club doesn't accommodate his disability.  Should they?  But at what expense?

Most clubs that hold outings still have in their contracts that the participants in the outing must abide by club rules.  Having an outing for non-members does not get them to the arena of a public facility since the group invited is still not considered the general public.  I have been in one of these battles before (not golf related, buy analogous nonetheless) and that was the grounds we proceeded on and have won twice.

WITB 2024

   Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60g 6.5

   M5 15* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5

   Sim Ti 22* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5

   Sim2 Rescue 22* Diamana Thump 100x

   X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX 

   Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

   Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75"

   Z Star Diamond

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So we are assuming the course is right and the guy is damaging the greens?

 

Has that fact been establishe? I've visted a lot of people convicted of lots of different crimes. I Only remember one saying that he actually did what he was accused of. I'm guessing others probably did too. :)

 

I'm not buying that he was driving on greens until it's proven that he did. Just as plausible is the possibility that the club made certain concessions and then some members complained and now they are trying to back track.

 

My club made it clear to my family that they would not be able to make changes to the pool when we joined. No problem, they were open and honest up front. They do allow us to bring an aid for Penny without the aid paying a guest fee. We reached a reasonable agreement. Why are we assuming that it's the guy who is being unreasonable and not the club or its members?

 

Whoever said it earlier is right, without all the facts you can't know. So I'm moving on to something else.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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So we are assuming the course is right and the guy is damaging the greens?

 

Has that fact been establishe? I've visted a lot of people convicted of lots of different crimes. I Only remember one saying that he actually did what he was accused of. I'm guessing others probably did too. :)

 

I'm not buying that he was driving on greens until it's proven that he did. Just as plausible is the possibility that the club made certain concessions and then some members complained and now they are trying to back track.

 

My club made it clear to my family that they would not be able to make changes to the pool when we joined. No problem, they were open and honest up front. They do allow us to bring an aid for Penny without the aid paying a guest fee. We reached a reasonable agreement. Why are we assuming that it's the guy who is being unreasonable and not the club or its members?

 

Whoever said it earlier is right, without all the facts you can't know. So I'm moving on to something else.

I don't know if he is damaging the greens or not.  They say he is, he say's he isn't.  He is referencing using this cart: http://www.solorider.com/ which advertises it can be driven on greens w/out damaging them.  Note in the article the course says it is damaging the greens and he says "they are wrong", not "I'm not driving on the greens".  He also says "it is lighter than mowers", and I believe he means greens mowers.  Nonetheless if the course can demonstrate that the cart does indeed do damage to the greens then I think they have a case in court.

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Discrimination by a PRIVATE club? Really? Go play all the other courses that you're allowed to play. Grow up and move on. I'm sick of this lawsuit happy society we live in.

AMEN!!!  Especially the lawsuit happy society part of it....so so true.

Check out www.littlejohngolfleague.com a Greater Houston Traveling Golf League

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I don't know if he is damaging the greens or not.  They say he is, he say's he isn't.  He is referencing using this cart: http://www.solorider.com/ which advertises it can be driven on greens w/out damaging them.  Note in the article the course says it is damaging the greens and he says "they are wrong", not "I'm not driving on the greens".  He also says "it is lighter than mowers", and I believe he means greens mowers.  Nonetheless if the course can demonstrate that the cart does indeed do damage to the greens then I think they have a case in court.

Well, according to SoloRider website, they are in Plano TX.  I wonder how much testing they have done in other parts of the country.  Just sayin......

 

Also, would be interesting to know if the club in question uses riding greens mowers or now.  I know of quite a number of clubs with soft greens that do not use riding greens mowers.  They mow them with some really slick operate by hand mowers.  Very quick and efficient but obviously not as quick as riding mowers.  

Check out www.littlejohngolfleague.com a Greater Houston Traveling Golf League

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