Optimal numbers for iron

[superduper]

I couldn't find any optimal LM numbers for irons.  I know that people rarely getting fitted for distance for irons.  But in my case, I need more distance with my 2 iron.  So far I'm getting about 120 Mph ball speed.  The loft is 18 degree.  Swing speed is around 80 - 84 for 2 iron.  What are the optimal numbers for a 2 iron?  

LA, Spin.  

 

If the LA is too high, I'm thinking of bending the loft weaker.... 

[revkev]

Super what is your actual handicap? It matters because I'm tempted to say that the best way to get more distance out of a 2 iron is to use it as a fire place poker and put a 5 wood or 2 hybrid in the bag. Even guys on tour who prefer long irons bag utility type irons at that loft. At 84-120 you are looking at a normal LPGA swing speed and result, their longest iron in the bag tends to be 5.

 

The general rule that I've learned is 1000 rpm of spin per iron number 8-8000 that sort of thing. Adding loft should increase launch angle and spin under normal circumstances.

 

Good luck.

[jbil8802]

What is your primary use of your 2 iron? Have you considered replacing it with a hybrid? I would think that swinging a 2 iron at 80mph would rarely produce efficient results.

[jaskanski]

There are no optimal figures for any iron, simply because an iron is intended to hit a ball a specified distance rather than an optimal distance. Optimal is really only intended for drivers, where hitting the ball the maximum possible distance is an advantage.

Irons are also intended to play a variety of different shots from differing lies - drivers are teed up on flat surfaces generally.

Irons are all about technique - if you want to hit a 2-iron further, you either need to improve your ball striking technique, or simply use a 1-iron - but if you struggle to hit the ball well then you will struggle to hit either a 2-iron or 1-iron successfully at all. It is then that you need a reality check between your requirements and your ability.

For the record, Trackman and the like often produce figures based on average players for each club - and they also post figures on the average distances of touring pros. 

 

 

Note that many tour pros don't use a 2-iron either. A few exceptions may be when a player requires a low ball flight on a windy course (the Open for instance).

 

[hckymeyer]

Try swinging your SW 30 times every morning as hard as you can

[superduper]

Super what is your actual handicap? It matters because I'm tempted to say that the best way to get more distance out of a 2 iron is to use it as a fire place poker and put a 5 wood or 2 hybrid in the bag. Even guys on tour who prefer long irons bag utility type irons at that loft. At 84-120 you are looking at a normal LPGA swing speed and result, their longest iron in the bag tends to be 5.

 

The general rule that I've learned is 1000 rpm of spin per iron number 8-8000 that sort of thing. Adding loft should increase launch angle and spin under normal circumstances.

 

Good luck.

 

let's just say I do not have a handicap.  I could play between low 80s to high 90s when I play shitty.   However, my ball striking is pretty good.  Caught almost everything in the center about 80% of the time.  I have VR pro blade and I hit them as far as my Taylormade Rocketbladez.   

 

And based on your comment, so the optimal spin for a 2 iron is 2000 RPM?  So it's almost like a driver optimal spin?

 

And btw, I do not game a traditional 2 iron.  It's MP-H4 2 iron.  Which falls between iron hybrid that sort of thing.   And I use them because I hate using hybrids? 

[jaskanski]

Spin for a 2-iron struck well would be in the range of 3500-4000 rpm. Anything lower and you would not get any distance - spin is not the bad guy in iron distance. Based on your numbers of 120mph ball speed and 80-84 mph swing speed you seem to be striking it well enough - so your distance is more or less what you're stuck with.

If you look at pro ball speed for a 3-iron, you can see that you are some way behind, given that the distance figures aren't ludicrous either. 

In summary if you aren't already using one, a lighter shaft may go some way to getting you some more swing speed, but it ain't really gonna get you a significant yardage increase. 

Again, a reality check is in order.

[jbil8802]

If you don't like hybrids, what about a 5 wood? I just don't see the benefit of bagging a 2 iron. If you need more distance with a club, swing faster and/or improve your strike.

[superduper]

Spin for a 2-iron struck well would be in the range of 3500-4000 rpm. Anything lower and you would not get any distance - spin is not the bad guy in iron distance. Based on your numbers of 120mph ball speed and 80-84 mph swing speed you seem to be striking it well enough - so your distance is more or less what you're stuck with.

If you look at pro ball speed for a 3-iron, you can see that you are some way behind, given that the distance figures aren't ludicrous either. 

In summary if you aren't already using one, a lighter shaft may go some way to getting you some more swing speed, but it ain't really gonna get you a significant yardage increase. 

Again, a reality check is in order.

 

does the 10 yard gap between irons applied to 2 iron?  suppose if I hit 6 iron 160 yards, it means the 2 iron supposed to be around 200 yards?

[hckymeyer]

does the 10 yard gap between irons applied to 2 iron?  suppose if I hit 6 iron 160 yards, it means the 2 iron supposed to be around 200 yards?

That's more a guideline than a hard and fast rule.  Especially when you start getting into long irons where the quality of ball striking starts to degrade for most amature's.  

 

Let's look at this from a different angle.  How far do you hit your 3, 4 & 5 irons?  Do those follow 10 yard gaps for you?

 

Also if what you want to end up with is a 200yd club and a 2i isn't doing it for you why not look for a different club that you can hit 200 consistently?

 

Also I just re-read your original question, if you want your 2i to go farther why would you be thinking about bending it weaker?  That is essentially turning it closer to a 3i which should go shorter. 

[superduper]

That's more a guideline than a hard and fast rule.  Especially when you start getting into long irons where the quality of ball striking starts to degrade for most amature's.  

 

Let's look at this from a different angle.  How far do you hit your 3, 4 & 5 irons?  Do those follow 10 yard gaps for you?

 

Also if what you want to end up with is a 200yd club and a 2i isn't doing it for you why not look for a different club that you can hit 200 consistently?

 

Also I just re-read your original question, if you want your 2i to go farther why would you be thinking about bending it weaker?  That is essentially turning it closer to a 3i which should go shorter. 

 

yup you found a typo.... should be "stronger" loft.  And I made a mistake asking optimal numbers to get more distance.  What I'm asking to get more roll with my 2 iron.... 

 

And my 2 iron is more dependable than a 41" hybrid which I sold it last April.  And It's easier to hit with the 2 iron off the ground than a FW.   So it's not leaving my bag soon....

[fozcycle]

yup you found a typo.... should be "stronger" loft.  And I made a mistake asking optimal numbers to get more distance.  What I'm asking to get more roll with my 2 iron.... 

 

And my 2 iron is more dependable than a 41" hybrid which I sold it last April.  And It's easier to hit with the 2 iron off the ground than a FW.   So it's not leaving my bag soon....

 

 

How about editing your "Signature" to include what's in your bag?

[jaskanski]

does the 10 yard gap between irons applied to 2 iron?  suppose if I hit 6 iron 160 yards, it means the 2 iron supposed to be around 200 yards?

 

I think you are making the assumption that yardages are "entitled" to be delivered depending on which club you are using.

A 6-iron may well go 160 yards, but that doesn't mean the 2-iron should follow the pre-conceived criteria of yardage gapping, particularly if you don't have the ability to make that formula work.

Most pros don't have much of an issue with maintaining yardage gaps because they don't have much trouble with ball striking which in turn keeps the ballfight relatively consistent through the set (see the Trackman chart). 

For amateurs however, with their lower lofted irons particularly, the ability to maintain peak trajectory and height degrades as they progressively get "harder" to hit. It's probably not uncommon for a lot of amateurs to hit their 5, 4, and possibly their 3 iron too (if they carry one) around the same overall distance because they lack the technique to get the correct ball flight. The only real difference is getting fooled into thinking a yardage is achievable because the club suggests it can (lower trajectory can lead to a sense of more roll for instance).

The sensible golfer (are there any?) tends to get grips with the difference between their ability and their requirements in terms of yardage and trajectory. It's no good trying to carry a water hazard of some 180 yards if your 4-iron is only airborne for 150 of them for instance. Therefore a different approach needs to be taken in getting the shot in hand to the location required. Sometimes that means eating a piece of humble pie and hitting a hybrid or even a 3-wood or similar. 

Once you get to know how your game works rather than assuming how it works (or worse still, be in complete denial how it actually is working!) you'll soon find yourself hitting more fairways and greens because you play within yourself rather than playing to what the club says.

In summary, if you don't hit your 2-iron 200 yards don't use it for a 200 yard shot! If you can't hold a green with it from 180 yards either, then you probably don't need it in your bag. 

[NiftyNiblick]

I'm a lofted wood, not even a hybrid, player. 

But I still carry one long iron to use on tight driving holes. 

My only intent is to hit a straight line drive under the wind onto a flat lie for a second shat.

 

I don't have a clue what the launch metrics are--I don't play the game at that level.  I just know that whatever those metrics are, I never try to hit my driving iron from the fairway. It's not in the bag to be a versatile club. It's a shot-specific specialty or utility club.

 

One thing, though.  If you're going to overlap lofts, you have to have wider loft gap increments or a narrower top to bottom range or both in order to do it with fourteen clubs.  That works fine for me. It's not for everybody, though.

[revkev]

That was some of the best advice that I've read in a long time Jaskanski.

[superduper]

I think you are making the assumption that yardages are "entitled" to be delivered depending on which club you are using.

A 6-iron may well go 160 yards, but that doesn't mean the 2-iron should follow the pre-conceived criteria of yardage gapping, particularly if you don't have the ability to make that formula work.

Most pros don't have much of an issue with maintaining yardage gaps because they don't have much trouble with ball striking which in turn keeps the ballfight relatively consistent through the set (see the Trackman chart). 

For amateurs however, with their lower lofted irons particularly, the ability to maintain peak trajectory and height degrades as they progressively get "harder" to hit. It's probably not uncommon for a lot of amateurs to hit their 5, 4, and possibly their 3 iron too (if they carry one) around the same overall distance because they lack the technique to get the correct ball flight. The only real difference is getting fooled into thinking a yardage is achievable because the club suggests it can (lower trajectory can lead to a sense of more roll for instance).

The sensible golfer (are there any?) tends to get grips with the difference between their ability and their requirements in terms of yardage and trajectory. It's no good trying to carry a water hazard of some 180 yards if your 4-iron is only airborne for 150 of them for instance. Therefore a different approach needs to be taken in getting the shot in hand to the location required. Sometimes that means eating a piece of humble pie and hitting a hybrid or even a 3-wood or similar. 

Once you get to know how your game works rather than assuming how it works (or worse still, be in complete denial how it actually is working!) you'll soon find yourself hitting more fairways and greens because you play within yourself rather than playing to what the club says.

In summary, if you don't hit your 2-iron 200 yards don't use it for a 200 yard shot! If you can't hold a green with it from 180 yards either, then you probably don't need it in your bag. 

 

I think you are making the assumption that yardages are "entitled" to be delivered depending on which club you are using.

A 6-iron may well go 160 yards, but that doesn't mean the 2-iron should follow the pre-conceived criteria of yardage gapping, particularly if you don't have the ability to make that formula work.

Most pros don't have much of an issue with maintaining yardage gaps because they don't have much trouble with ball striking which in turn keeps the ballfight relatively consistent through the set (see the Trackman chart). 

For amateurs however, with their lower lofted irons particularly, the ability to maintain peak trajectory and height degrades as they progressively get "harder" to hit. It's probably not uncommon for a lot of amateurs to hit their 5, 4, and possibly their 3 iron too (if they carry one) around the same overall distance because they lack the technique to get the correct ball flight. The only real difference is getting fooled into thinking a yardage is achievable because the club suggests it can (lower trajectory can lead to a sense of more roll for instance).

The sensible golfer (are there any?) tends to get grips with the difference between their ability and their requirements in terms of yardage and trajectory. It's no good trying to carry a water hazard of some 180 yards if your 4-iron is only airborne for 150 of them for instance. Therefore a different approach needs to be taken in getting the shot in hand to the location required. Sometimes that means eating a piece of humble pie and hitting a hybrid or even a 3-wood or similar. 

Once you get to know how your game works rather than assuming how it works (or worse still, be in complete denial how it actually is working!) you'll soon find yourself hitting more fairways and greens because you play within yourself rather than playing to what the club says.

In summary, if you don't hit your 2-iron 200 yards don't use it for a 200 yard shot! If you can't hold a green with it from 180 yards either, then you probably don't need it in your bag. 

 

I'm not in denial.... I think you should try those iron hybrid thing before you made this comment.  it's true that traditional older iron carries less for anything below 5 iron.  But it doesn't apply for this new hybrid iron thing.   Mizuno MP-H series, Adams Dhy, some maltby KE iron hybrid (forget the model)..... try it yourself and see if you see a new approach in answering this thread.  

 

Just some logic, if you can hit a 41" hybrid which the head is about the same size as MP-H4 2 iron, why would you have trouble hitting a 39.5" club with the same loft?  and my problem with hybrid, the head looks weird at address. and it goes way too high for me to get the desired roll.  

[superduper]

How about editing your "Signature" to include what's in your bag?

 

I'm not going to but I carry 2 to PW without any hybrid and fairway wood.....  my fav club in the bag is my 4 iron.  

[hckymeyer]

Super - There seem to be quite a few guys trying to help you out with some great advice and trying to answer your questions.  If you don't want to give enough information for us to form a proper recommendation that's fine, but please stop spouting your opinions as facts.  Everyone has a different swing and there is no rule of thumb that applies to everyone.

 

You want to know how to get the ball to roll more with a 2i?  Swing faster and hit it lower.

You want to know how to hit a 2i farther?  Swing faster and hit it higher.

You want to know optimal launch conditions for your swing speed?  Go to this link and play around with spin and launch settings  https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

/end of thread

[jaskanski]

I'm not in denial.... 

 

Really?

The problem is - most people who can actually hit a 2-iron don't usually ask how they can hit it further.

[superduper]

Really?

The problem is - most people who can actually hit a 2-iron don't usually ask how they can hit it further.

 

really....  because these people are custom fitted by their own sponsor for free?  with unlimited choice of free custom shafts?  your mindset, how can this hacker even hit a 2 iron decently?  well, I know my own swing more than you do and I have had no problem so far with my 2 iron.  Only thinking extra distance couldn't hurt. but it's a joke if you think most people can NOT hit a 2 iron.    

 

I sent a clubfitter a quick question on ebay about an 11.5 degree driver a long time ago?  his answer was "why do you need a loft that much?"  his mindset, everybody has a 95 mph swing speed and decent swing so nobody would need a 11.5 degree driver.  and his mindset could hurt his sales...   

 

Super - There seem to be quite a few guys trying to help you out with some great advice and trying to answer your questions.  If you don't want to give enough information for us to form a proper recommendation that's fine, but please stop spouting your opinions as facts.  Everyone has a different swing and there is no rule of thumb that applies to everyone.

 

You want to know how to get the ball to roll more with a 2i?  Swing faster and hit it lower.

You want to know how to hit a 2i farther?  Swing faster and hit it higher.

You want to know optimal launch conditions for your swing speed?  Go to this link and play around with spin and launch settings  https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

/end of thread

 

like reciting "hitting sand wedge 30 times every morning"?   swing faster is not the answer, it's more like a joke...   

[jaskanski]

Better change that to delusional.

[HighFade]

Let me come this guy's defense here a bit....

 

A while back, I carried a 2I.  I absolutely loved that club.  I couldn't hit / didn't like to hit hybrids.  So maybe he's just grown attached to it.  Reading the thread, I wanted to scream GET A HYBRID!!!  But one size does not fit all.  I say, work with a fitter or pro to get the right shaft that will help you accomplish what you want (spin, launch, etc)

[hckymeyer]

really....  because these people are custom fitted by their own sponsor for free?  with unlimited choice of free custom shafts?  your mindset, how can this hacker even hit a 2 iron decently?  well, I know my own swing more than you do and I have had no problem so far with my 2 iron.  Only thinking extra distance couldn't hurt. but it's a joke if you think most people can NOT hit a 2 iron.    

 

I sent a clubfitter a quick question on ebay about an 11.5 degree driver a long time ago?  his answer was "why do you need a loft that much?"  his mindset, everybody has a 95 mph swing speed and decent swing so nobody would need a 11.5 degree driver.  and his mindset could hurt his sales...   

 

 

like reciting "hitting sand wedge 30 times every morning"?   swing faster is not the answer, it's more like a joke...   

Yes the swing SW 30 times every morning was a joke based on your other thread.

 

In all seriousness though the link I put to the trajectory optimizer should give you what you are looking for.  You can input your ball speed and then play with different launch and spin numbers to get the desired (optimal) result.

 

From there it's up to you on what changes you need to make to get those results.  Could be a swing change, could be a shaft change but if you play around with the launch and spin you can figure out if you are maximizing the potential of your current swing speed.

[HighFade]

Just checked out that flightscope link.  I compared it to the numbers from last year's trackman session.  By my math, it is 98-99% accurate.  And fun!

[hckymeyer]

Just checked out that flightscope link.  I compared it to the numbers from last year's trackman session.  By my math, it is 98-99% accurate.  And fun!

80% of the time it works 100% of the time!

[superduper]

Better change that to delusional.

 

Better change that to delusional.

 

you are officially become a useless hole.  I will ignore all your previous feedback now.  garbage....   and what ever happened to your forum called "the sand trap"?  are you the same moderator?  nobody comes anymore and you mingle here?  lots of steroid "jerks"....

 

If you keep answering with your own "feeling" rather than facts, people will go away from your "feedbacks"..... 

 

Why? you cannot hit a 2 iron? and all the people in world with a 2 iron is "delusional"?  

 

better change that to "good ball striking"....

 

now i think I made a mistake of asking optimal numbers for a 2 iron because nobody here can hit a 2 iron...  

[jaskanski]

you are officially become a useless hole.  I will ignore all your previous feedback now.  garbage....   and what ever happened to your forum called "the sand trap"?  are you the same moderator?  nobody comes anymore and you mingle here?  lots of steroid "jerks"....

 

If you keep answering with your own "feeling" rather than facts, people will go away from your "feedbacks"..... 

 

Why? you cannot hit a 2 iron? and all the people in world with a 2 iron is "delusional"?  

 

better change that to "good ball striking"....

 

now i think I made a mistake of asking optimal numbers for a 2 iron because nobody here can hit a 2 iron...  

 

Point of order....

I take time out my hectic schedule to contribute to the forum because I feel I can contribute golf related insight regarding my experience, in particular with club fitting and club building. Ask a reasonable question and I'll give you a reasonable response.

It is only an opinion, but if you don't like or agree with the reply, then respond in kind with a structured and reasoned argument that makes sense - not with garbled dross like that above which makes you look like a classless yob and upholds the appearance of a delusional wannabe, especially considering the content of other threads you have started.

If you find any comments too upsetting, inappropriate or offensive, then report them to the moderators and/or the owners of this site.

Likewise, if anyone else finds any comments I have made inappropriate or offensive, I would ask the moderators to remove those as appropriate or at their discretion.

For the record, I have never written for or have any association with the Sandtrap. The only other website to which I have contributed to is GolfWrx, which is a matter of public record and you are free to google any info or any of my 10000 or so posts to your hearts content - you may even find the odd 2-iron or two in my bag. 

Finally, unless anyone has any further relevant questions regarding the content of this thread or the points raised or discussed, I will consider myself done.

Anybody wishing to receive advice or opinion in the future, please feel free to do so by posting (no PM's please), but also bear in mind the points made above.

Thank you.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Boys, play nice.

 

We have like no rules here, and we only step in when the only rule I have comes into play - and that rule is play nice.  

 

The thing that separates MGS from WRX and others is that our members respect each other and differing opinions are just that, differing opinions.

 

I value both you guys' participation and membership on MGS, and sincerely hope we can shake hands, move on and continue the work of making MyGolfSpy the best and most influential forum on the web.  To do that, we need both you guys as active and involved members.

 

Agreed?

[revkev]

I would echo Barbajo here. Super duper has started some excellent threads no doubt because he has a uniques perspective on things. Jaskanski is a professional fitter and his opinions are invaluable and despite some comments here thoroughly fact based.

 

I love hyckymeyers little toy. He's shared that link with me before and I've used it for some LM sessions, it's very helpful. Super it will give you the answer to your question.

 

Okay it's time for my favorite TV program, UConn Husky basketball.

[superduper]

Boys, play nice.

 

We have like no rules here, and we only step in when the only rule I have comes into play - and that rule is play nice.  

 

The thing that separates MGS from WRX and others is that our members respect each other and differing opinions are just that, differing opinions.

 

I value both you guys' participation and membership on MGS, and sincerely hope we can shake hands, move on and continue the work of making MyGolfSpy the best and most influential forum on the web.  To do that, we need both you guys as active and involved members.

 

Agreed?

 

on the internet, assumptions are common mistakes.  We do not know the poster's gender and age and playing skills.   And I do know mr.J is a pro fitter and I think he has not seen anyone with a 2 iron until now. 

 

And I made a mistake of assuming Mr.J as somebody else because I've seen the same username in sandtrap.   And he was a tough mod (to everybody and not just me).... for that I apologize....

 

Just played with Maltby HDI last week (bought it last year).  To be honest it's a hybrid in the shape of an iron (yes referring the club as  a 2 iron is not accurate).  It's the easiest club to hit in the bag.  And the distance is the same as my 5 wood.   I play the club on a short par 4s (300 yards or a bit more) and on Par 5s (fairway shots).  I do not think 2 iron exists anymore.... they are just hybrids.