Driver Fitting

[PlaidJacket]

I've had two drivers fittings in the past two years. Most recently a few days ago for a Cobra FZ and FZ+ model. Both have been a bust. Both fittings have been indoor with a FlightScope and my most recent with a Trackman. My first fitting was for a Wishon 919THI. The guy that fit me also fit my irons which I love. However, with the Wishon I never could hit the dang thing like indicated from LM data. Outdoors what I saw was completely off. Same with the Cobras I'm testing. So here's my conclusion.

If you are driver fitting you'd better be fit outdoors. Preferably with the LM. I haven't been able to just take a LM's word (data) for it. In both cases the LM had me dialed in to a perfect set of numbers. However, once I get the club outdoors I SEE much different results. With the Cobras I'm testing once again the LM showed me nailing my shots. Everything in the data looked great. But when I take them out into the real world I SEE much different results. Today, I'll take the Cobras back and leave them or maybe let the fitter try a new shaft or two with me.

What about you guys?

[jbil8802]

Lately because of the snow I've been using the indoor Trackman set up at my club just to hit some balls. The drives I've hit on it with my G25 have been pretty spot on for me.

 

On Saturday Ping will be here doing fittings for the all the new G clubs. My hope is to be fit into a new G driver and possibly fairway and hybrid and see if it can beat out my G25. It's supposed to be an indoor demo day/fitting but it looks like the temps will be in the 50s. I'm going to see if they can open the door so I can hit them out onto the range while still using the Trackman. If not, I'll just walk outside and hit them without the LM. No matter what, I will absolutely be seeing full ball flights before I make any decisions.

[Mr_Theoo]

I've done 2 driver fittings both were outside but the difference for me were the balls. The first was in California at the taylormade kingdom with real balls. The next was at a driving range here using range balls. While I like being outside for both I felt the second one wasn't that great because of range balls. For my next fitting I hope to be inside then able to go outside just to verify flight. For me getting the numbers when I need them to is better for me.

[jaskanski]

For me, the only real way to see the proof of a fitting is viewing the actual ball flight down range - that means outside.

Sure, you can fiddle about with certain parameters such as weight, length etc. during the static fit process, but nothing replaces the Mk1 eyeball for the ultimate casting vote on what is good or bad.

Again, numbers from LM data are all very well, but if those numbers (regardless of what they are) don't tally in terms of feel and workable ball flight, then they are largely useless.

LM data does provide a valuable snap shot of what the ball is doing and driver fitting in particular lends itself very well to LM "optimisation" - simply because the driver is intended to hit the ball as far as possible. But as anyone who plays golf will tell you, there is also a certain amount of a compromise between what you can actually want and what you actually do. Therefore, the eyeball still gets the casting vote.

Let me put it this way - if you find a driver that you like the feel of, you like the ball flight and trajectory, it gives you the shape you are looking for and it gives good distance - what use is LM data now? Would it make any difference if the spin was far from "optimal"? Not one bit. But you can bet a lot of money and time has been wasted by some in their search for an "optimal" driver.

Get fit by all means, but never lose sight of the fact that you are the one who has to put that fitting to work - and if it doesn't feel right, it ain't right. And you and your eyes will tell you that long before any LM can.

[hckymeyer]

I've had both indoor and outdoor fittings with good results.  First fitting was when the R11 first came out.  I tried a bunch of heads and settled on the R11 and then started tweaking shafts.  Ended up with an Oban Kiyoshi purple based off the numbers and feel.  I played that driver for 2 years and had great results with it.  This was an all indoor fitting off Trackman.

 

I was also fit outdoors at The Kingdom for the SLDR.  Like Theo the whole fitting was done by sight and feel, once we found the combo we took it over to the monitor just to verify the numbers.  I've also been playing the SLDR for 2 years and I love this driver.  I'm still trying to find something that can beat it, but so far now luck.  This years Cobra offerings are both in contention though.  

 

I really think it comes down to the individual golfer being fitted.  Some people swing differently indoors than they do outdoors.  If the tee height isn't just right, or you're not using your preferred golf ball the results from an indoor fitting can be very different than what happens outside.

 

Bottom line is to do what works best for you. Some folks will have great luck getting fit indoors, some need to be outside and see ball flight.

 

FWIW I won't be making a final decision on King LTD vs F6+ vs SLDR until I get outside and hit them all on the course.  I'm also doing a "self fitting" so I'm curious what my results will be.

[revkev]

Plaid you've got the same issue I do, you're an older, better player which means that your swing is generally consistent. You can manipulate the numbers on an LM pretty easily. It gets much harder when you see how crapy 8 degree launch and 4,000 spin rate looks.

 

Ideally you get both but if I can only have one I will take the visual every time. Medium high draw for me please.

[PlaidJacket]

Great comments guys and thanks. Here's what I did today. I played 18 holes with my SLDR and generally drove the ball well. Afterwards I went back to the shop/fitter and took both of the Cobras with me. As I started my conversation I asked the guy which one he thought I'd choose. He guessed the FZ+. I said it was neither and the SLDR beats them both. I described what I'd experienced testing both of the Cobras the past few days. In general with both clubs my ball flight was too low and my shots were pushed right. I tried all shaft, loft, and weighting combinations that I could. (I had 3 shaft options to work with at the time) The fitter was somewhat puzzled but after our discussion he suggested a lighter shaft with a lower kick-point. I also decided to work with the Fly-z only. I did like the feel and sound best with that head over the FZ+. He rigged up a Matrix OZIK MFS Q4 Red Tie 57g S. I'll be able to get out Wednesday evening and test it out. We'll see.

[Kor.A.Door]

Did you hit them side by side on the LM, what are the numbers showing on the LM with the SLDR, if you like the numbers for the SLDR, why not see what differences are between the 2 on the LM.

[McaseyM]

Good luck the the FZ! I was Fit for my irons on an LM and had excellent carryover, even after building them myself, but was outside for driver the eyeball of the fitter.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apprenti23]

So basically you're saying that the ball flight you see on a TrackMan is not the ball flight you see outdoors. Is that correct? I find this highly unlikely as TrackMan is the standard when it comes to Doppler radar based launch monitor devices.

 

Is this the same for how you hit your personal clubs as well on the Trackman or only the clubs built to spec by your fitter off of the fitter recommendations?

 

It's either one of two things:

1. Your fitter isn't building the clubs to the exact specifics of the clubs you were swinging during the fit.

2. You do something differently with your setup and/or swing to manipulate when you see the numbers. Have the fitter put a mark/tape on the screen for you to aim at, but turn the projector off so only he can see the numbers on his monitor.

[JBones]

So basically you're saying that the ball flight you see on a TrackMan is not the ball flight you see outdoors. Is that correct? I find this highly unlikely as TrackMan is the standard when it comes to Doppler radar based launch monitor

I second this. I have been fit on a TrackMan both inside and outside and have witnessed several other fittings by people that I play with. I've also had numerous range sessions on the TrackMan, just for the hell of it. Every time the ball flight has been spot on, even my misses look exactly the same.

 

Outside is the best option, as you can swing freely. Most indoor set ups don't have enough room and cause major swing changes.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Fireinthehole]

I would say I'm in the same boat, getting fitted indoors with flight scope and hitting of mats. I am the worst person to try clubs in any indoor setting. I get tense and very steep.

One of the club fitters I work with took the RSI tp and made me an 8i and 6i combo with a project x 7.0 and 6.5 pair and I took the mizuno mp 15 with C tapers out.

Going out and playing with the clubs is the only way I can really test them. Im not too hung up on #s yet.

I know you mentioned cobra, but did you look at the M1?

[PlaidJacket]

Apprenti... I haven't mentioned this before. The fitter guy I'm using is a retailer who also happens to have a TM bay at his store. There is no projector and screen. All he has is the TM and a large 42" TV screen showing the numbers/data. I cannot see ball flight. I think that's a problem. To be honest... this guy isn't a true club fitter. I don't begrudge him he's trying and I personally like him. Other than him and another guy at a country club close by there aren't really any true fitters in my area. I wish I was able to get out on the range with a guy that had a TM and bunch of shafts. But I don't have that option.

 

I agree I probably do.. do something differently hitting indoors. No question. Even if this guy had a projector screen and I was able to see a simulated ball flight I'd still want to take the club; any club outside before I made a purchase. Therefore, with the latest shaft he gave me Monday I'll go out and hit some balls alongside my SLDR and compare. I'm willing to give it another try but if this shaft doesn't work out then I'm probably going to give it a rest.

 

As a side note.... the guy I'm working with right now has expanded his store and is putting the finishing touches on his new much larger Trackman bay complete with a projector and screen. But it's a month away from being completed. So, I might wait and come back when it's ready to go and try this over again. Who knows.

[apprenti23]

So there is one of these in Dallas, one in Houston, and one set to open in Austin sometime in Mid April.

 

Not sure how many more options you could ask for?

[jbil8802]

There's a Club Champion relatively close to me. Haven't been there yet though.

[PlaidJacket]

I travel to Austin quite often throughout the year. Maybe I'll wait and give CC a try. I doubt I can hang on to the Cobras until then. But maybe they can get some heads in if they don't have them already.

[PlaidJacket]

As of this morning I'm done with the Cobra Fly-Z. Yesterday afternoon late I picked up a new shaft the retailer/fitter wanted me to try. This time he gave me a Fujikura Motore Speeder 569-S. He said this shaft was the same as what the SLDR has but without the TaylorMade paint scheme. But I'm still SEEING the same old thing. I hit the ball too low. However, this time I did hit it a little straighter and with a slight draw. Just too low. By the way... I had the shaft set in the Cobra head at 12* loft. Recall my SLDR is a 14* head that I supposedly have set at 12* with a slight draw bias. Again... what I SEE with the Cobra is not even close to the SLDR.

When I set the Cobra down next to my SLDR you can just see a difference in loft. And when I hit the SLDR I produce a nice mid to higher flight with a nice draw. I wanted to bag the Cobra but it's not going to happen. I'll return it later today and keep the SLDR in the game. It's a fairway machine.

[jbil8802]

Going at 1PM today to do a fitting for the new Ping G drivers. Will be putting them up against my old faithful G25.

[Bobtrumpet]

For some reason, I can't hit a driver well in an indoor bay. Irons are no problem; I get very similar results indoors off a mat and outdoors off of grass.

[PlaidJacket]

As a follow-up to my last post, a couple of weeks ago I purchased a new 2015 TaylorMade R15 460cc 14* loft model. It's quite similar to the SLDR. After my Cobra experience I thought this R15 might work well for me. I can also switch the shafts with my SLDR.

I've only had 2 short range sessions and one playing round with the R15. I'm still trying to get the R15 "dialed in". Over all I have hit the R15 with much better initial results than I did with the Cobra's. I have my normal Saturday game in the morning but I think I'll play my SLDR this time. I'm going to contact a local club and Pro I've worked with before and look into scheduling some time with him and his Trackman. They have a nice fitting center where I can hit quality balls to the outdoors. Instead of me tinkering around and trying to guess my way into it I think with-in an hours time I can get this thing just like I want it.

[fozcycle]

As of this morning I'm done with the Cobra Fly-Z. Yesterday afternoon late I picked up a new shaft the retailer/fitter wanted me to try. This time he gave me a Fujikura Motore Speeder 569-S. He said this shaft was the same as what the SLDR has but without the TaylorMade paint scheme. But I'm still SEEING the same old thing. I hit the ball too low. However, this time I did hit it a little straighter and with a slight draw. Just too low. By the way... I had the shaft set in the Cobra head at 12* loft. Recall my SLDR is a 14* head that I supposedly have set at 12* with a slight draw bias. Again... what I SEE with the Cobra is not even close to the SLDR.

When I set the Cobra down next to my SLDR you can just see a difference in loft. And when I hit the SLDR I produce a nice mid to higher flight with a nice draw. I wanted to bag the Cobra but it's not going to happen. I'll return it later today and keep the SLDR in the game. It's a fairway machine.

 

 

Then your next step should be to increase the Angle of Attack.  When you address the ball with your driver, tee it up a little higher(1/2 of ball above the driver face) then try lowering your right shoulder at address before you start your backswing.  This will increase the angle of attack and produce a higher launch.  I was suffering from the same issue and this changed my game!

[PlaidJacket]

I hear ya Foz. I don't actually play the SLDR or the R15 at 14*. More like a 12* loft. At least that's were my SLDR was measured at. I've tried to replicate the same settings with the R15.

I really wanted one of the Cobra's. I know you love yours. But after quite a bit of testing I just couldn't make them work. Damn game.

[Fireinthehole]

As a follow-up to my last post, a couple of weeks ago I purchased a new 2015 TaylorMade R15 460cc 14* loft model. It's quite similar to the SLDR. After my Cobra experience I thought this R15 might work well for me. I can also switch the shafts with my SLDR.

I've only had 2 short range sessions and one playing round with the R15. I'm still trying to get the R15 "dialed in". Over all I have hit the R15 with much better initial results than I did with the Cobra's. I have my normal Saturday game in the morning but I think I'll play my SLDR this time. I'm going to contact a local club and Pro I've worked with before and look into scheduling some time with him and his Trackman. They have a nice fitting center where I can hit quality balls to the outdoors. Instead of me tinkering around and trying to guess my way into it I think with-in an hours time I can get this thing just like I want it.

 

I have the M1 now and though I do like it, just for the heck of it I took out my buddies R15 with my preferred shaft and I ended up playing better with it, the white head and heavier head weight just felt more comfortable to me and the ability to split the weights really helped with my occasional mishit higher on the face and more towards the heel. To add to the confusion it sounded better. Maybe just a reminder that new isn't always better.

 

Hope you get some more clarity on the Driver selection.

[PlaidJacket]

I'm not going to even attempt to play the R15 until I can get over to the club that has the fitting center and launch monitor and get the thing dialed-in properly. Sure, I could probably tinker around with the all the variable settings but I'm just guessing is all I'm doing. I've worked with the Pro over at the fitting center before with my SLDR and had great results. What I'm hoping to accomplish is matching the performance and ball flight characteristics of my SLDR to the R15. I'm pretty sure we can. Until then the R15 rides the pine.

[Kenny B]

I'm not going to even attempt to play the R15 until I can get over to the club that has the fitting center and launch monitor and get the thing dialed-in properly. Sure, I could probably tinker around with the all the variable settings but I'm just guessing is all I'm doing. I've worked with the Pro over at the fitting center before with my SLDR and had great results. What I'm hoping to accomplish is matching the performance and ball flight characteristics of my SLDR to the R15. I'm pretty sure we can. Until then the R15 rides the pine.

If the SLDR is dialed in, working well for you, and better than the new Cobra, why do you think you need to change?  I would think at best you might get the R15 to be about the same.

 

I'm just asking because I'm in the process of looking at options to replace my SLDR, and I haven't found one that is a significant change for the better.

[PlaidJacket]

Kenny.... everyone asks me the same question. I don't need to change drivers at all. My SLDR is and has been a great driver for me. I just want to play a new driver. That's really it. Golf is a hobby for me as much as it is a game I play. The R15 that I bought is a 14* model just like my SLDR. (I don't play the SLDR at 14*. More like 12*) It also has pretty much the same shaft. I can also swap the shaft from the SLDR to the R15. It's entirely possible I might end up not liking the R15 for one reason or another. If so, I'll sell or trade it and keep loving life in the fairway with the SLDR.

[Fireinthehole]

I know that feeling all too well, I should never have hit the Srixon z545 with oban kiyoshi white 75x, hit a couple of golf balls and the feeling went straight into my soul...

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Kanoito]

If the SLDR is dialed in, working well for you, and better than the new Cobra, why do you think you need to change?  I would think at best you might get the R15 to be about the same.

 

I'm just asking because I'm in the process of looking at options to replace my SLDR, and I haven't found one that is a significant change for the better.

 

For the same reason we all end up here at MGS... always looking for something better or for the sake of club ho'ing...

[PlaidJacket]

Yesterday I went out to practice and took both the SLDR and the new R15. After warming up and hitting balls for a while I was ready to hit the drivers. I started with my SLDR and hit a few. As expected I hit it well and with the expected ball flight I'm accustomed to. Mid-height with a slight right to left draw. Next I hit some with the R15. A few good ones but I was hitting more of what I thought were pushed right. A few were somewhat "slicey"!. Hmmm? Next I decided to swap the shafts putting my SLDR shaft into the R15. Wow! My first 3 shots looked just like the SLDR. I continued to hit more good shots, but; to be honest I was starting to get a little tired and my performance soon became iffy. Supposedly these two shafts are similar. Length, weight, torque, flex, etc. I'd previously messed around some with the loft and sliding weight settings on the R15 trying to emulate the SLDR but I'm just guessing. However, after trying the SLDR shaft yesterday I think I'm on to something. My R15 settings might even be pretty close. I'm going to see if I can get with the Pro at the club later this week and get this thing dialed-in. He has an indoor to outdoor fitting center with a Trackman.

[jayjay0808]

PlaidJacket,

 

I am not surprised that once you switched the shafts the R15 was working much better for you. I was fit by one of the best fitters in Vancouver for the first time 5 years ago. He always said that 90% of the club was the shaft. I came into him having the old Adams 9064LS with a Proforce V2 X flex, initially on his trackman indoors was hitting it approximately 280ish with a 112 average swing speed. By changing the shaft to an Accra Tour z he gave me 20 yards in about 30 minutes. Absolutely amazing!