Tiger Woods is done... Hate to say it but the back is toast

[Kor.A.Door]

Torque and violence, 2 words I didn't use in my posts, why, because Rory said it, it's not natural, you can have a natural swing, these guys just aren't content with that, they have to push for more, they have to hit the ball 350 yards, because hitting the ball 290 yards isn't good enough. Your body can make a natural swing, but in the quest for better l, these guys choose to harm themselves and destroy their own body because they have to better than Everyone else.

[Undershooter]

Torque and violence, 2 words I didn't use in my posts, why, because Rory said it, it's not natural, you can have a natural swing, these guys just aren't content with that, they have to push for more, they have to hit the ball 350 yards, because hitting the ball 290 yards isn't good enough. Your body can make a natural swing, but in the quest for better l, these guys choose to harm themselves and destroy their own body because they have to better than Everyone else.

Do you know what biomechanics are or understand them? I mean that as an honest question and not sarcasm.

 

You act like Rory didn't always swing it 120. He did that even when he was pudgy and didn't work out at all. Hell I barely practice and play once or twice per week and I swing it 120. Its just something my body does. Doesn't mean I'm concerned about torque or violence. My body just "naturally" swings it at that speed. Its what I know. There is very little about Rory's swing that I would call violent. He is very smooth. There is torque but that is going to happen at 120mph. Everyone with that speed produces torque doesn't matter the player.

 

Exercise is not detrimental to golfers. Poor work out programs can be however. I've seen some of tiger's workouts and they had their faults. They were more concerned with strength than anything. Rory's are very well rounded and include a lot of flexibility and explosion work. Did you know that Jordan Speith actually does are variety of all those same things? There is a reason he has gained length since he joined the tour.

 

All of this doesn't change the fact that the golf swing isn't natural to the body. There are some parts that are, but as whole the majority of sports including golf aren't.

[Kor.A.Door]

I think you misunderstand what I mean by natural swing, the problems occur when we want more from it, at some point your 120 swing won't be 120, the problem is you will continue to try to keep it, then it's not a natural swing to you anymore. The pros are no different, their quest is to keep that swing for a longer period of time to stay at a higher level but In doing so you give up something in return, it happens in every sport, go back 30 years ago when guys didn't work out like they do now, you never had oblique pulls, pectoral muscle pulls, you didn't have hamstring pulls to the extent we have today, these all occurred after the bigger, faster, stronger movement in sports. We can disagree, but you can naturally swing without destroying your body, 1000's of golfers do it everyday but not many of them play professionally either. The professional golfers quest to be better will keep many of them from playing longer, and it's a shame, tiger is only 40, that's way to young for us not see him out there every season. I don't like Tiger, I never have, but he shouldn't be nursing himself back to where he can play again, whoever his team were back in the day gave him bad advice or bad information, or he just didn't listen to other good advice, either way, the people that like him have had to miss out on continuing to watch what could have been the greatest ever. Now y'all hope he can even make it back to contend on occasion, I think we both agree that it's a shame that it has come to this for him.

 

 

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[RookieBlue7]

The 1 swing we've seen (and it's 1 swing, btw... what's to say it didn't cripple him for a few days to make that 1 swing) is a dramatic difference in positions than we've seen in the last several years.  It's similar to the old Butch swing.  Upright and driving down and through.  That said, I still think he's done.  His putter lost it's magic when he went away from the Scotty that Elin broke.  He hasn't been able to putt near like he used to with the Method.  Maybe the new Method proto they're rolling out might go back to being like his old stick, but there's always that 1 special putter everyone has.  Liik at Kenny Perry when his caddie broke his old faithful, couldn't putt afterward.  If I'm Tiger, I stop by Ecinitas with the old Scotty and tell Scotty to duplicate it identically.  Leave it void of Titleist stampings so there's no conflict.  Though I'm sure after Escalade-gate, Nike told him they'd stick with him, but it'd be a 14 club deal and not a 13 club deal.

And again, I'm a fan.  But the back can only take so much.  Ride off, design some courses and enjoy your children.  

[Hula Rock]

 

 

After he made that swing wasn't he at his own restuarant and seen at Jack party ?  I do agree, we will not see Tiger in his prime ever again, but I don't think that he would risk everything if he did not get the "Go-Ahead" to start swinging the sticks again.

[Jmikecpa]

I hate to agree but I think that he is done.  Not many players can come back and be the player they were (or even close to it) after these repeated injuries.   Look at Freddie and imagine the player he could have been if his back did not go out in the mid 90's.  For Tiger it is not just the back, but also knee and leg injuries as well.

[revkev]

I'm reviving this to take a shot at the most over rated player of all time - Greg Norman.  Why he's ever news is beyond me.  He won 2, count them 2 majors in his career.  He has very little ability to understand Tiger or Jack or Arnie or anyone else on the upper ranges of golf history. He's a wanna be created by CBS at a time when the dominant players played in Europe and so we needed a hero on our tour.

 

Having written that I saw a headline that made it sound as if he was spouting off authoritatively about Tiger like the time when he said that he could have beaten him really, he couldn't beat Larry Nelson head to head in Majors but he would have beaten Tiger - okay.  Actually though he wasn't and what he was quoted as saying made sense about wear and tear on the body. 

 

It's interesting that while he was a range rat early in his career Jack eased off significantly as he got older and he pared his playing schedule down significantly also.  He still had injuries to deal with but I can't help but think that they were easier to handle because he didn't put as much pressure on himself week after week.  Basically Jack set his schedule around being prepared for the majors.  When he got in the hunt in a non-major he could seal the deal but he always carefully chose what courses that he played on so that they would get him ready for what he would face those four weeks of the year.  He'd even go so far as to retool his game to hit draws for Augusta and then put the fade back in for the US Open and subsequent majors. 

[Kenny B]

I'm reviving this to take a shot at the most over rated player of all time - Greg Norman.  Why he's ever news is beyond me.  He won 2, count them 2 majors in his career.  He has very little ability to understand Tiger or Jack or Arnie or anyone else on the upper ranges of golf history. He's a wanna be created by CBS at a time when the dominant players played in Europe and so we needed a hero on our tour.

 

Having written that I saw a headline that made it sound as if he was spouting off authoritatively about Tiger like the time when he said that he could have beaten him really, he couldn't beat Larry Nelson head to head in Majors but he would have beaten Tiger - okay.  Actually though he wasn't and what he was quoted as saying made sense about wear and tear on the body. 

 

It's interesting that while he was a range rat early in his career Jack eased off significantly as he got older and he pared his playing schedule down significantly also.  He still had injuries to deal with but I can't help but think that they were easier to handle because he didn't put as much pressure on himself week after week.  Basically Jack set his schedule around being prepared for the majors.  When he got in the hunt in a non-major he could seal the deal but he always carefully chose what courses that he played on so that they would get him ready for what he would face those four weeks of the year.  He'd even go so far as to retool his game to hit draws for Augusta and then put the fade back in for the US Open and subsequent majors. 

Yes, Jack and I are a lot alike in that regard.  

[Undershooter]

I think you misunderstand what I mean by natural swing, the problems occur when we want more from it, at some point your 120 swing won't be 120, the problem is you will continue to try to keep it, then it's not a natural swing to you anymore. The pros are no different, their quest is to keep that swing for a longer period of time to stay at a higher level but In doing so you give up something in return, it happens in every sport, go back 30 years ago when guys didn't work out like they do now, you never had oblique pulls, pectoral muscle pulls, you didn't have hamstring pulls to the extent we have today, these all occurred after the bigger, faster, stronger movement in sports. We can disagree, but you can naturally swing without destroying your body, 1000's of golfers do it everyday but not many of them play professionally either. The professional golfers quest to be better will keep many of them from playing longer, and it's a shame, tiger is only 40, that's way to young for us not see him out there every season. I don't like Tiger, I never have, but he shouldn't be nursing himself back to where he can play again, whoever his team were back in the day gave him bad advice or bad information, or he just didn't listen to other good advice, either way, the people that like him have had to miss out on continuing to watch what could have been the greatest ever. Now y'all hope he can even make it back to contend on occasion, I think we both agree that it's a shame that it has come to this for him.

 

 

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I agree that to a degree, we are arguing semantics. With that said the golf swing is not a natural movement to our bodies. When my 120 leaves me, and it will, I won't really care because I'm still far ahead of the Am curve. Tigers quest to keep 120 is killing him and I agree with you he should just accept that he is slowing down. Its stupid to try and hold on. As far as working out making it more likely for people to be injured. This is 100% false. One of, if not the BIGGEST reasons people workout is to PREVENT injury. Rory said it himself, he started working out because he was hurt. People 30 years ago still had injuries just like now, the difference is that the level of play is so much higher now, people don't have to play hurt as often and things weren't reported like they are now.  Just because someone isn't in as good of shape doesn't mean they are less likely to get hurt. That makes zero sense. You are correct in one aspect, those who push the envelope such as pros in sports are generally more susceptible to injury because they do everything at a much higher speed. Example: I have been told on numerous occasions during my baseball years and even since then that anytime a pitcher throws a pitch over 85mph his UCL could pop and he could need Tommy John surgery. It doesn't matter how good his mechanics are, every time he throws a ball over 85 his elbow is a ticking time bomb. 85mph isn't even that fast. Most decent college pitchers throw at least that and all pros do save some knuckle ballers and such. Pros have to do this, its just the cost of doing business. Because if you didn't do it, someone else would.

Tiger definitely has received some bad advice over the years and his workouts obviously were FAR from perfect but just keep in mind that he was always injury prone. Even when he was in college and weighed 140lbs. Crazy thought (I don't believe this personally) but what if working out actually kept Tiger playing longer and kept his body from breaking down even more prematurely? Remember he was injured quite a few times before he was even on tour.

 

Look at the end of the day, if Tiger comes back and does something then cool. If not, oh well. Its not the end of the world. I always liked watching him play but he was never my favorite. 

Just don't loop Rory in with Tiger just because they both play for Nike and happen to workout. If you think DJ, Spieth, Day, Rose, Scott, Stenson and most other top flight players don't workout then your sorely mistaken. 

[Kor.A.Door]

It's not the working out that is hurting them, because being fit is a good thing, overdoing it is not good, flexibility trsinjng is needed as you get older, you don't need to build muscle, you need to stretch them, make them more flexible, at an older age that is needed more than bulky strong muscles to continue playing. Ask some of the older guys here, being flexible is very important to playing golf as you get older, when I look at Tiger I don't see anything that is flexible. I do think that if he takes it slow he can come back and play at a high level, but nothing in his past says he is willing to do that.

[revkev]

It's not the working out that is hurting them, because being fit is a good thing, overdoing it is not good, flexibility trsinjng is needed as you get older, you don't need to build muscle, you need to stretch them, make them more flexible, at an older age that is needed more than bulky strong muscles to continue playing. Ask some of the older guys here, being flexible is very important to playing golf as you get older, when I look at Tiger I don't see anything that is flexible. I do think that if he takes it slow he can come back and play at a high level, but nothing in his past says he is willing to do that.

Define high level though. For him to truly come back to where he wants to be it would have to be at a level that produces an upper tier Hall of Fmae performance, 5 majors, in the time he has left. I don't see it because beyond resolving the ball striking issues he has to regain his putting stroke. That's something that left before any of this other stuff surfaced.

 

I don't know enough about current theories on working out to comment intelligently. I go for a walk daily, do some things to keep my core up and stretch allot. Plus I lift my daughter constantly. I should improve my diet and do something to strengthen my back. The hallmark of Jack's career was moderation or balance as he got older. While the average player today is better than then there was plenty of strength at the top throughout Jack's career. The huge difference that I see is money. Jack made more money in business than on the golf course and that in turn allowed him to spend time with his family. Guys today seemingly spend their time making more money. That's their prerogative but it's what let Jack remain competitive into his 40's.

[Undershooter]

It's not the working out that is hurting them, because being fit is a good thing, overdoing it is not good, flexibility trsinjng is needed as you get older, you don't need to build muscle, you need to stretch them, make them more flexible, at an older age that is needed more than bulky strong muscles to continue playing. Ask some of the older guys here, being flexible is very important to playing golf as you get older, when I look at Tiger I don't see anything that is flexible. I do think that if he takes it slow he can come back and play at a high level, but nothing in his past says he is willing to do that.

Good Lord you must have read nothing that I've written. I've already said this and so has Rory. Of course flexibility is important. That's why I mentioned it. Damn

[jkittlesen]

It was a great run watching Tiger thru the years.

 

Hope he catches just a couple more wins.

[jayjay0808]

I will not judge until Tiger himself says he is done. We will never again see someone dominate the sport like 00-01 Tiger. But to say he is done and will never be competitive again is absurd. Throughout his career he has proven people wrong, so I would rather play it safe and just wait. 

[Undershooter]

Don't mind me. I'm just gonna leave this right here....

 

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2016/4/22/11486380/tiger-woods-injury-update-schedule-sage-valley

[RookieBlue7]

The swing tiger posted on Twitter looks just like a swing from someone with a bad back. I hope he's competitive again. But like Michael Jordan said, people just don't have the heart to tell him

[Undershooter]

Just saying.. The guy doesn't exactly look to be on his death bed and barely walking. Who knows what will happen.

[RexS]

I know a lot of people don't like him and would like to see him retire.  I myself am a big fan, love to watch the guy play, good or bad. Of course good is always better.  I hope he can make a come back and still compete. I am totally rootin' for him.