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alfriday101

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It is all in the feel man nothing feels or hits like a Miura or an older forged iron made in the USA. Like I said man you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I am strictly an old school feel player and have a hightened sense of feel. You may not have the sense of feel that others and I have. I was blessed with an uncanny sense of feel. I am not getting in any peeing contest with you or anyone else. You have your opinion and I have mine

 

 

Without a doubt. Everyone has their own opinion on feel and that's not debatable...I've played and hit clubs from pretty much every OEM out there and I certainly my personal favorites...that's part of what makes the game fun - 

 

What I was responding to was your accusation that because I believe a big part of the JDM story is based on lies and misinformation, that somehow equates to me basically knowing nothing about JDM...

 

It's all good. 

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Toney, I served 30 years in the Army and have heard more profanity than you in more languages. By putting profanity into your article, you lost some potential fans.

 

Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. Think about it. There's a better word.

 

Other than that, your assessment of the AT&T Pro-Am was spot on.

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Toney, I served 30 years in the Army and have heard more profanity than you in more languages. By putting profanity into your article, you lost some potential fans.

 

Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. Think about it. There's a better word.

 

Other than that, your assessment of the AT&T Pro-Am was spot on.

 

Not for anything, but profanity, no profanity, this site, and probably my writing in particular is never going to be for the easily offended, so if an F-bomb, or something a bit milder is enough to cost me a reader or two, so be it. I'd venture a guess those aren't the guys who would last long around here regardless.

 

I always enjoy the lack of vocabulary argument. It's one of those things people say when they have a bias against certain words...usually the naughty ones. My vocabulary is just fine, thanks.

 

But lets look at this another way...look at the reaction to my choice of words. Comments like yours, emails....emails and comments defending my choice of words. A dictionary full of words, and few if any elicit more of a response than a well-placed expletive. 

 

I certainly don't use it often...honestly, probably a literal handful of times or less in any given year. That probably won't change.

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Back to Al's point consider that Tony's piece on equipment got around a dozen responses while his edgy one on Pebble got nearly 100. If I were him I know which way I'd go with my Blog pieces. :)

 

Al stick in here, we're more civil in our discussions and we enjoy having your input.

 

Ain't that somethin' Rev? We definitely stirred things up though I always enjoy when people say "this is just clickbait". We even here that about some tweets we send...even when there's nothing to click on. We certainly like it when readers engage - even when it's to blast us for being idiots, but it's never something I personally set out to do.

 

I started to watch the Pebble coverage, and quickly realized it really does exemplify everything that outsiders...and even some of us on the inside, hate about the game. It's basically obnoxious, and so I expressed my feelings about it. 

 

Obviously I'm more than happy with the response...and the same is true of the This is Not That and Chris' JDM article. It's interesting what happens when you post an opinion that might be divisive, or when you wrestle with any of the game's sacred cows. 

 

Sometimes people get riled up. There's nothing wrong with that, one can only hope that people are able to express their disagreements without resorting to personal attacks. That's never a 100% success.

 

You still have family in my area, Rev?

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I really enjoyed this thread and its vocabulary lessons that it entailed. Thanks to all who have expressed themselves. And for those who didn't like this thread, ^@*% it.  :D

The Bag:

Right handed

Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

52*,54*,58* all TTDG S-400

TM TP5 X

Scotty Cameron SSS Tiffany 009 350 34.5" or Bettinardi BB1 DASS Proto

GHIN # 5144472

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Long story T but my son ended up staying in a plum assignment right where he's at.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I'd be interested to know how you've drawn the conclusion my knowledge of JDM is basically nill - I have no issue with people who don't agree...hell, that's part of the fun of actually being able to articulate an opinion. That said, it's clear in reading the comments, some people aren't very interested in actually reading the entire piece...just picking and choosing (and often misquoting) portions which serve their agenda....And even that is to be expected, to a degree...

 

That being said,  I've spent a fair bit of time researching the topic at hand and my opinion is one rooted in fact and confirmed by experience and opinions of people who exist on the inside of the industry - So at the risk of starting a debate on the validity of spin-welded hosels, I'd love to know, beyond my opinion that those who fail to critically consume information are at risk of wasting money, what is it about JDM I'm missing

 

Thanks for jumping in because I'm on the fence about your piece on the blog and thought my comments would get lost out there. Also JDM equipment is out of my price range so I'm not that interested in it. My question or concern about your piece is that I would have liked more imperial evidence. Do the tolerance differences, if real, matter? Your claim seems to be no or that the JDM folks haven't demonstrated that it's yes. I'd like to see some proof either way.

 

As to Stu's point, "for you" nothing feels like a well hit blade "for you." You can't say what it feels like for me or another player. I left the blade brigade a long time ago with the Ping Eye two. I wasn't alone as tons of tour players bagged that iron for some time. I'm equally convinced that my choice of a GI iron is the better one. But I've finally come to the conclusion that if the club doesn't fit a player's eye or feel right in his hands it's not going to work.

 

Better swings produce better shots and you're going to swing better with a blade while I swing better with a shovel. Believe or not I can feel the ball off the club face of that shovel and know when I hit the sweet spot.

 

Here are some general thoughts - 

 

With feel, there's nothing to debate - People have their own preference and ultimately play what works best for them...

 

There's also some inconsistency in what people actually define as JDM - I go with the definition that JDM are clubs marketed and sold specifically to the Japanese Domestic Market - Not just clubs made, manufactured or designed in Japan or by a Japanese company - That said, for many the cost is off-putting in light of the fact performance is a function of a number of variables, not just production tolerances.

 

In terms of empirical (I think this is what you meant by imperial?) evidence, I think it's the other way around - People have accepted certain things as truth w/o any evidence to back that up in the first place. And now people want evidence to disprove something they accepted as truth w/o any evidence in the first place. 

 

I'm all about statistically significant studies which show definitively the performance benefits of the varied fitting philosophies, types of clubs, etc. Fortunately, sites like MGS perform these tests all the time and produce awesome information which truly helps people make better decisions. That said, my opinion is a lot of the hype around JDM, is simply that, hype w/o anything to back it up. No one can debate personal preference, but it really depends what your bottom line is. If it's getting a set of irons which are dead on in terms of headweight, loft/lie right out of the box, JDM does an awesome job of that. Is that worth the premium in price? That's totally up to you. Typically, if there is superiority in any industry, people eventually move toward that product - and if not in masses, at least in majority.

 

It certainly stands to reason club builders would much rather start with a club that's exactly at "x" weight rather than having to add a couple grams of tip weight, etc. - This certainly makes the process easier. But I've never seen any information which shows any performance difference in a clubhead that weights say 267 grams and one that weighs 264 grams and has 3 gr. of lead tape...

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Thanks that's very helpful.  Of course I meant empirical my IPad felt differently though. :)

 

I'm on the laptop at work which is a much safer piece of equipment.  I'm all about value and so my theory has always been if the JDM clubs afforded that great of advantage why wouldn't we see everyone playing the game for money bagging them?

 

I think that quality, well fit equipment gives a player the best chance to shoot the lowest score that he or she possibly can - it doesn't make me Jack Nicklaus - God (natural ability) and hard work do that.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Thanks that's very helpful.  Of course I meant empirical my IPad felt differently though. :)

 

I'm on the laptop at work which is a much safer piece of equipment.  I'm all about value and so my theory has always been if the JDM clubs afforded that great of advantage why wouldn't we see everyone playing the game for money bagging them?

 

I think that quality, well fit equipment gives a player the best chance to shoot the lowest score that he or she possibly can - it doesn't make me Jack Nicklaus - God (natural ability) and hard work do that.

 

To me, there's always a reason certain products run ahead of others. When that happens, there's typically a story there. But we don't have that situation in the golf industry right now - There are a lot of OEM's who make a lot of really quality equipment and for my money, performance differences are more the result of fitting and getting clubs which match a players abilities, than anything else.

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I know that we've seriously jacked this thread but that last comment is exactly why it's tough on OEMs that are trying to break in or rebrand. The market is shrinking or correcting may be more accurate and everyone is basically producing the same type of club in one of three categories. It's hard to separate or distinguish so if I'm Joe Blow consumer I start with what I know and find something..

 

I'm an older guy, there's no compelling reason for me to try Nike or Cleveland or Bridgestone because I'm going to find something from Ping or Titleist or TMAg that works first. I ended up with Wilson irons because my teacher was a Wilson guy and I remembered the brand. They had something that fit me perfectly, done deal.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Wow, that was some interesting reading, I've been on this site for about 3 years now I think, and I never read the blog until just a few months ago if I remember correctly. I still don't read it very often, I did read the pebble beach pro am article, and while I understand where the writer was coming from, I also didn't care. I like the watching the pro-am, I think it's still a good tournament, it's also for the fans, it's also for the celebrities, it's becoming more about he celebs lately, but the tourney is what it is, it's like Waste management Phoenix open, it may not be for everyone, they are what they are, I enjoy watching golf, so I don't care what tourney it is. If someone writes a blog that bi don't like, I just stop reading and move on, the blog is just like every post here, it's someone's opinion, everybody has one, but mine is the only one that matters. I disagree with a lot of posts, and things here, some I leave alone, some I jump in, I have disagreed with and had mild arguments with some of you here, but we've mostly kept it it pretty civil and at the end of the day sometimes we just agree that we disagree, that's life sometimes. I really enjoy coming here and chatting, and the back and forth commentary on his site, there are a lot of good people here. I don't always feel like I fit in here, but it's a place for me to read about golf, and talk about golf, sometimes my opinion is the law, sometimes I realize it's not, but I won't generally let you know that, or give up the fight. This is fun y'all. If you don't like something don't read it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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247 grams vs 244 grams + 3 grams speaks of the quality of work more than the playability.

 

Same in any industry.

 

It's difficult to cook a great steak but when you can't, you put a little mushroom or whatever sauce you want on it and it's still good.

 

I had a milspec that was 33/350 When I pulled the head was actually 358 grams. I had a Bettinardi that said 353 grams, it was 352. I loved both putters. Performance was close but one paid attention to detail pretty well, the other did not.

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Here are some general thoughts - 

 

With feel, there's nothing to debate - People have their own preference and ultimately play what works best for them...

 

There's also some inconsistency in what people actually define as JDM - I go with the definition that JDM are clubs marketed and sold specifically to the Japanese Domestic Market - Not just clubs made, manufactured or designed in Japan or by a Japanese company - That said, for many the cost is off-putting in light of the fact performance is a function of a number of variables, not just production tolerances.

 

In terms of empirical (I think this is what you meant by imperial?) evidence, I think it's the other way around - People have accepted certain things as truth w/o any evidence to back that up in the first place. And now people want evidence to disprove something they accepted as truth w/o any evidence in the first place. 

 

I'm all about statistically significant studies which show definitively the performance benefits of the varied fitting philosophies, types of clubs, etc. Fortunately, sites like MGS perform these tests all the time and produce awesome information which truly helps people make better decisions. That said, my opinion is a lot of the hype around JDM, is simply that, hype w/o anything to back it up. No one can debate personal preference, but it really depends what your bottom line is. If it's getting a set of irons which are dead on in terms of headweight, loft/lie right out of the box, JDM does an awesome job of that. Is that worth the premium in price? That's totally up to you. Typically, if there is superiority in any industry, people eventually move toward that product - and if not in masses, at least in majority.

 

It certainly stands to reason club builders would much rather start with a club that's exactly at "x" weight rather than having to add a couple grams of tip weight, etc. - This certainly makes the process easier. But I've never seen any information which shows any performance difference in a clubhead that weights say 267 grams and one that weighs 264 grams and has 3 gr. of lead tape...

I will say that the last paragraph can be very subjective. I will concur with you for probably 85% of the players out there good and bad they can not feel the difference.On the numbers on a Trackman or any other device the numbers may not change at all. There are some of us that can feel even that slight difference. Sometimes uncanny feel can be a curse. Believe this or not I can feel if any club has a tip weight in it by picking it up and swinging it. Personally on my clubs I never check a swing weight. I have no earthly idea on the SW on any club in the bag except for the 56 and 60 wedges and that is because I did the evaluation for MGS on them and had to compaire them to my old ones. To be completely honest when I talk JDM I am biased towards Miura and older Mizuno like the 33s or older 32s . There is something about the processes and pure steel that those two companies use that makes their stuff unique.

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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I know that we've seriously jacked this thread but that last comment is exactly why it's tough on OEMs that are trying to break in or rebrand. The market is shrinking or correcting may be more accurate and everyone is basically producing the same type of club in one of three categories. It's hard to separate or distinguish so if I'm Joe Blow consumer I start with what I know and find something..

 

I'm an older guy, there's no compelling reason for me to try Nike or Cleveland or Bridgestone because I'm going to find something from Ping or Titleist or TMAg that works first. I ended up with Wilson irons because my teacher was a Wilson guy and I remembered the brand. They had something that fit me perfectly, done deal.

That is a good deal for you. You hit the combo. You found a guy who knows your swing and game. He is also a good fitter and knows the Wilson equipment. All 3 of those combined is the key

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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Yeah the only thing that I don't like about my C100's is the cheap look. That looks corrected in the C200 so an upgrade may be in the future for me.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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 I disagree with a lot of posts, and things here, some I leave alone, some I jump in, I have disagreed with and had mild arguments with some of you here, but we've mostly kept it it pretty civil and at the end of the day sometimes we just agree that we disagree, that's life sometimes. I really enjoy coming here and chatting, and the back and forth commentary on his site, there are a lot of good people here. I don't always feel like I fit in here, but it's a place for me to read about golf, and talk about golf, sometimes my opinion is the law, sometimes I realize it's not, but I won't generally let you know that, or give up the fight. This is fun y'all. If you don't like something don't read it. 

 

This portion of Kor.A.Doors's post is spot on! I feel the same way.

 

I actually know what vitriolic and bloviate mean. Maybe I are smarter than I thunk I was? B)

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I'll agree with the OP on this one about how it seems the tone has changed in the blog posts. MGS has always taken pride in being brand agnostic and stating the facts. That's what has always drawn me to the site. Lately, things seem much more opinion based and that is fine, but my God are the opinions extremely negative. I never saw MGS as a negative golf site. I find myself now questioning if it always had and that I've just had blinders on or what. Lately it seems they are brand agnostic to the point that they hate all brands and all things golf. In response to the Pebble Beach Pro-Am, what do you think people want to watch? Celebrities in Monterey playing one of the most beautiful courses in the world OR a bunch of random amateur minorities playing on a muni track outside of Detroit? I sure as hell know what is more appealing to me!

 

As for language, it doesn't bother me. I don't really care about language, this is 2016 not 1916.

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I'll agree with the OP on this one about how it seems the tone has changed in the blog posts. MGS has always taken pride in being brand agnostic and stating the facts. That's what has always drawn me to the site. Lately, things seem much more opinion based and that is fine, but my God are the opinions extremely negative. I never saw MGS as a negative golf site. I find myself now questioning if it always had and that I've just had blinders on or what. Lately it seems they are brand agnostic to the point that they hate all brands and all things golf. In response to the Pebble Beach Pro-Am, what do you think people want to watch? Celebrities in Monterey playing one of the most beautiful courses in the world OR a bunch of random amateur minorities playing on a muni track outside of Detroit? I sure as hell know what is more appealing to me!

 

As for language, it doesn't bother me. I don't really care about language, this is 2016 not 1916.

 

Glad you weighed in...always good to hear from the lifers...at least long-timers.

 

First to answer your question, I think people want to watch professional golfers...not celebrities...and definitely not celebrity hacks (although if it was nothing but the worst, it might be good TV). I mean...obviously if they're able to isolate on Berman so easily, they can just as easily skip the Ams completely...but I suppose that's preference as much as anything.

 

I was genuinely curious about your assessment that we've been "extremely negative" lately. In that too, there's obviously plenty of room for subjectivity and opinion. We know some people would classify the Pebble Beach tone as negative (fair). Same for the JDM article (fair too, although I'd also suggest that there's plenty of factual info in there).

 

I'm also guessing that the it doesn't matter who did it first article could be construed as negative (TaylorMade certainly didn't care for it). Personally I saw that as an exercise in pragmatism, and perhaps some defeatism on my part. Basically, here's the reality. We all know it's the reality, so let's stop getting wrapped up in bits and pieces that ultimately don't matter (even if they should).

 

It's a fair assessment that those 3 came in pretty quick succession, though again, I'd say that's coincidence (Pebble is on the calendar, JDM...not like I asked Chris to write something to piss people off, and who did it first was basically an idea that's been rattling around in my head...when somebody tweeted the side by side of the FLY-Z and the M2 it gave me the inspiration to run with it.

 

So we have 3 articles, where I can see some degree of negativity...along with some real-world perceptions, and some unpleasant realities that some don't want to hear. Ok...but beyond that? Like I said...genuine curiosity on my part, so I went back to the last 40 things published on MyGolfSpy. Here they are:

 

pub1-2.png

 

Allowing for the fact that the PGA Show occurred in there, I went back and looked at 20 more. Here are those:

 

pub3.PNG

 

Again...negativity is subjective, and its fair to say some have interpreted some of my thoughts in ways I hadn't intended, but whatever...it happens.

 

I suppose if you start with Pebble and look at a narrow sample size, you can make some argument for a negative trend (though I wouldn't call it excessive), but over the last 60...and certainly if we went back 20 more...and 20 more before that...again, just my opinion, but reports of our bad attitudes have been greatly exaggerated.

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247 grams vs 244 grams + 3 grams speaks of the quality of work more than the playability.

 

Same in any industry.

 

It's difficult to cook a great steak but when you can't, you put a little mushroom or whatever sauce you want on it and it's still good.

 

I had a milspec that was 33/350 When I pulled the head was actually 358 grams. I had a Bettinardi that said 353 grams, it was 352. I loved both putters. Performance was close but one paid attention to detail pretty well, the other did not.

 

Production tolerances speak to production tolerances. Whether or not that makes a difference to you, is entirely up to you. Whether or not that makes any difference in performance, is an entirely different story.

 

I think your putter example indicates this as you had two putters, with a 6 gr. difference and didn't realize it until you pulled the heads.

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I will say that the last paragraph can be very subjective. I will concur with you for probably 85% of the players out there good and bad they can not feel the difference.On the numbers on a Trackman or any other device the numbers may not change at all. There are some of us that can feel even that slight difference. Sometimes uncanny feel can be a curse. Believe this or not I can feel if any club has a tip weight in it by picking it up and swinging it. Personally on my clubs I never check a swing weight. I have no earthly idea on the SW on any club in the bag except for the 56 and 60 wedges and that is because I did the evaluation for MGS on them and had to compaire them to my old ones. To be completely honest when I talk JDM I am biased towards Miura and older Mizuno like the 33s or older 32s . There is something about the processes and pure steel that those two companies use that makes their stuff unique.

 

 

I hear ya, but your refined sense of feel is more like 1 in a 100 or 1 in 1000, from my experience. Either way, it's phenomenal you have this and know exactly what it is you want - For me, I don't include standard production models like the MP 32s, 33s, in the JDM discussion b/c they were made and marketed to the US/rest of the world. Miura, Epon, etc. are in line with what I consider JDM to be...

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Not for nothing, but you know what I DO like? I like the tone of this thread -- different opinions offered by grownups. MGS might not have the biggest forum, but we do have the most adult.  

 

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  :titelist-small:TSR3; :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR Carbon
FW Wood: :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR 3-wood; :titleist-small: TSR 2+
Hybrids:  PXG Gen4 18-degree
Utility Irons: :srixon-small: ZX MkII 20* 
Irons:;  :Sub70:699/699 Pro V2 Combo; :wilson_staff_small: D9 Forged;  :macgregor-small:MT86 (coming soon!); :macgregor-small: VIP 1025 V-Foil MB/CB; 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX6 Zipcore
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Milled 10.5;  :scotty-small: Newport Special Select;  :edel-golf-1:  Willamette,  :bettinardi-small: BB8; :wilson-small: 8802; MATI Monto

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B RXS; :srixon-small: Z-STAR Diamond; :wilson_staff_small: Triad

Stat Tracker/GPS Watch: :ShotScope:


 
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Not for nothing, but you know what I DO like? I like the tone of this thread -- different opinions offered by grownups. MGS might not have the biggest forum, but we do have the most adult.  

+1  It's why I joined MGS in the first place.  The equipment discussions and reviews along with the camaraderie is a bonus!

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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This is too rich, they are having a commercial for the Bayou club (my club) and its robot mowers.

 

I'd like to hear T's take on those. :).

 

Let's see how adult we really are here.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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This is too rich, they are having a commercial for the Bayou club (my club) and its robot mowers.

 

I'd like to hear T's take on those. :).

 

Let's see how adult we really are here.

 

Why is your club mowing robots? I didn't think they grew in your climate...

 

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  :titelist-small:TSR3; :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR Carbon
FW Wood: :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR 3-wood; :titleist-small: TSR 2+
Hybrids:  PXG Gen4 18-degree
Utility Irons: :srixon-small: ZX MkII 20* 
Irons:;  :Sub70:699/699 Pro V2 Combo; :wilson_staff_small: D9 Forged;  :macgregor-small:MT86 (coming soon!); :macgregor-small: VIP 1025 V-Foil MB/CB; 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX6 Zipcore
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Milled 10.5;  :scotty-small: Newport Special Select;  :edel-golf-1:  Willamette,  :bettinardi-small: BB8; :wilson-small: 8802; MATI Monto

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B RXS; :srixon-small: Z-STAR Diamond; :wilson_staff_small: Triad

Stat Tracker/GPS Watch: :ShotScope:


 
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Production tolerances speak to production tolerances. Whether or not that makes a difference to you, is entirely up to you. Whether or not that makes any difference in performance, is an entirely different story.

 

I think your putter example indicates this as you had two putters, with a 6 gr. difference and didn't realize it until you pulled the heads.

Production tolerances are in every product however when a company strives to have extremely low tolerances beyond industry standards again it speaks well of that company regardless if it were Japanese, American, Korean, etc. I would even say that is why old American foundries like Hoffman are talked about with a great sense of nostalgia. In their prime they produced great product with great tolerances. I play both JDM and USDM (my gamer driver is a Callaway Alpha with a $60 Graman shaft, while I have $150 GD hybrid shafts) so I don't have a horse in this race. I just appreciate any company that goes that extra mile.

 

Yes but they both stated a specific weight and one was off by a decent amount (affects swingweight). I had to pull the heads to know. If I was confident in the company maybe I wouldn't have had to.

 

Many times things that are off still work, mainly because we are just not good enough to notice. However if we could keep those variables constant (7 gram weight difference between iron heads) wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

 

If you don't think you need that type of service or don't want to pay the premium. Good for you and your wallet. More resources for lessons. However let's not put down companies that are trying to excel in production.

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Production tolerances are in every product however when a company strives to have extremely low tolerances beyond industry standards again it speaks well of that company regardless if it were Japanese, American, Korean, etc. I would even say that is why old American foundries like Hoffman are talked about with a great sense of nostalgia. In their prime they produced great product with great tolerances. I play both JDM and USDM (my gamer driver is a Callaway Alpha with a $60 Graman shaft, while I have $150 GD hybrid shafts) so I don't have a horse in this race. I just appreciate any company that goes that extra mile.

 

Yes but they both stated a specific weight and one was off by a decent amount (affects swingweight). I had to pull the heads to know. If I was confident in the company maybe I wouldn't have had to.

 

Many times things that are off still work, mainly because we are just not good enough to notice. However if we could keep those variables constant (7 gram weight difference between iron heads) wouldn't that be a wonderful thing?

 

If you don't think you need that type of service or don't want to pay the premium. Good for you and your wallet. More resources for lessons. However let's not put down companies that are trying to excel in production.

 

 

No doubt - attention to little details and creating product with strict tolerances is certainly preferable...no one is debating that and I've never challenged that point - people are free to spend their money in any manner they see fit and I'm not putting down any OEM for doing what they do - In fact, I applaud them and love the fact people have this choice.

That said, I don't think the golfing public could afford it, literally. 

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Apparently some sections of the golfing public can because a lot of those high end JDM companies are still out there.

 

Just because we are not part of their target market does not mean they don't make great product or are overhyped.

There's always going to be a percentage of buyers who exist at the very top end - This is why we have luxury items - But it's a small percentage in any industry and like you said, not the "target market." 

 

What we're really talking about here are the dynamics of luxury and these dynamics vary depending on the industry - The quality is always there and whether or not a product gets a deserved amount of hype is an entirely different conversation. Just b/c a product sits in the category doesn't mean it's automatically over-hyped - but it doesn't mean there's any correlation between price and performance either. 

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There's always going to be a percentage of buyers who exist at the very top end - This is why we have luxury items - But it's a small percentage in any industry and like you said, not the "target market." 

 

What we're really talking about here are the dynamics of luxury and these dynamics vary depending on the industry - The quality is always there and whether or not a product gets a deserved amount of hype is an entirely different conversation. Just b/c a product sits in the category doesn't mean it's automatically over-hyped - but it doesn't mean there's any correlation between price and performance either. 

 

Tim Clarke at Wilson calls it "Male Jewelry."  There are folks that will buy a diamond encrusted driver from DeBeers simply because they want to.  My only hope is to be the salesman who gets that commission! I personally don't begrudge anyone for spending whatever they want to on anything. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Rolex - it's a finely crafted piece of equipment, but you know what the biggest difference is between a $10,000 Rolex and a $30 Timex is? 

 

The Timex keeps better time

 

What's in the bag:
 
Driver:  :titelist-small:TSR3; :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR Carbon
FW Wood: :wilson_staff_small: DynaPWR 3-wood; :titleist-small: TSR 2+
Hybrids:  PXG Gen4 18-degree
Utility Irons: :srixon-small: ZX MkII 20* 
Irons:;  :Sub70:699/699 Pro V2 Combo; :wilson_staff_small: D9 Forged;  :macgregor-small:MT86 (coming soon!); :macgregor-small: VIP 1025 V-Foil MB/CB; 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX6 Zipcore
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Milled 10.5;  :scotty-small: Newport Special Select;  :edel-golf-1:  Willamette,  :bettinardi-small: BB8; :wilson-small: 8802; MATI Monto

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B RXS; :srixon-small: Z-STAR Diamond; :wilson_staff_small: Triad

Stat Tracker/GPS Watch: :ShotScope:


 
Follow @golfspybarbajo

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