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Several articles? Man, can you provide me with a complete list of occasions where you've been put-off by something I've written? Feel free to include this one.   Seriously though, I get it. Crude...

Out of fairness to the author, Chris Nickel, it should be pointed out that he didn't say that anyone who disagrees is Just Dumb, Man.   The actual quote is " if you don't take the time to become a c

I'm waiting for the resurrection of Mr_Divots. In his opinion I trust.

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Well... Alfriday said what I've been thinking for some time. I just didn't want to say anything for fear of reprisal or a beat-down by TC. That's Tony Covey. There have been several articles written by him that I though were crude; classless. Other times he seemed to have an arrogant tone that if you don't agree with him you're an idiot. I know I've said a few things in the forum that may have chapped a few. So, I guess the pot can't entirely call the kettle black. However, MGS thinks they are different, edgy, smarter, better, etc. than other golf sites. Maybe. Maybe not. I read many other golf sites. Overall I enjoy the forum mostly. The Blog - not so much.

What I enjoy most is right here....in the forum/community. I've met (virtually speaking) quite a few guys I enjoy reading their comments and posts. I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy even more meeting them in person and playing golf with them.

Glad you made this post Alfriday.

LOL PJ he aint going to beat you down he has to come through me first!! Hey us old guys got to stick together

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Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Hahahahaah!

 

You and me BOTH.  I thought it was another name for "Lady Parts"......

 

And here I am looking for lady parts  :rolleyes:

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:cobra-small: SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S
:callaway-small: X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S
:taylormade-small: JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR :adams-small: Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S
:mizuno-small: JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge
:EVNROLL: ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0
MfleKCg.jpg Pro / 9dZCgaF.jpgH2NO Lite Cart Bag / :Clicgear: 3.0 / :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX7 Pro LRF

My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT

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This site is like so many things in life.  I am going to like some things and not like others.  Its up to me to decide which is which and to engage where I like it and leave it alone where I don't. 

 

**mini-rant alert**  It seems to me that people in general have become too intolerant of views that do not match their own and get "offended" way too easily (not in reference to the posts here - nobody has said "offended") and people obsess over not being offinsive.  What a load....  **rant over**

 

It is refreshing to me to see pieces being written without the apparent fear of reprisal from the sensitivities of the audience.  Yet, as I have read the last two pieces, I have quit reading them because I don't like what I found to be abrasiveness (offered as feedback and not criticism).  But, that was my choice - as it was the author's choice of how to write.  I will at least start reading future pieces because hearing what the author has to say is valuable to me - at least in knowing that what I am reading will not be influenced by the big marketing machines out there. 

 

Overall, I find a lot of value being around here, participating and reading articles.  If I have to ignore the occasional post or article, so what? 

 

The best thing about this site to me is that nobody's opinion gets attacked or squelched.  That is very rare in life and even less so on the internet.

 

If it were me I would tone it down a notch.  But its not me.  And that's really the point.

Part of it is the inability of people to carefully read and understand what's being written. To Al's original point I could do without the expletives but they are not about to shut me down. Has anyone here ever read Luther (the 16th century one)? And he' was a PhD who regularly got ranked in the top 5 most infuential people of the last millennium. Oh and most of his expletives were from the pulpit.

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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Part of it is the inability of people to carefully read and understand what's being written. To Al's original point I could do without the expletives but they are not about to shut me down. Has anyone here ever read Luther (the 16th century one)? And he' was a PhD who regularly got ranked in the top 5 most infuential people of the last millennium. Oh and most of his expletives were from the pulpit.

Funny thing you mentioned Luther we have been studying him some in Confirmation Class

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Well MGS has always called it like it is and has never 'sugar coated" anything as long as I have been on here.

Now to your defense I did not agree with that author at all. He has missed the boat some again IMHO. To me again IMHO he does not know squat about JDM clubs especially Miura but that is his opinion. And you certainly have a right to yours.

 

In a nutshell--- I may not agree with your opinion but I will stand by you and fight to the death if need be for your right to express it. This comes from a Southern Redneck US Navy veteran

 

I'd be interested to know how you've drawn the conclusion my knowledge of JDM is basically nill - I have no issue with people who don't agree...hell, that's part of the fun of actually being able to articulate an opinion. That said, it's clear in reading the comments, some people aren't very interested in actually reading the entire piece...just picking and choosing (and often misquoting) portions which serve their agenda....And even that is to be expected, to a degree...

 

That being said,  I've spent a fair bit of time researching the topic at hand and my opinion is one rooted in fact and confirmed by experience and opinions of people who exist on the inside of the industry - So at the risk of starting a debate on the validity of spin-welded hosels, I'd love to know, beyond my opinion that those who fail to critically consume information are at risk of wasting money, what is it about JDM I'm missing?  

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I'd be interested to know how you've drawn the conclusion my knowledge of JDM is basically nill - I have no issue with people who don't agree...hell, that's part of the fun of actually being able to articulate an opinion. That said, it's clear in reading the comments, some people aren't very interested in actually reading the entire piece...just picking and choosing (and often misquoting) portions which serve their agenda....And even that is to be expected, to a degree...

 

That being said,  I've spent a fair bit of time researching the topic at hand and my opinion is one rooted in fact and confirmed by experience and opinions of people who exist on the inside of the industry - So at the risk of starting a debate on the validity of spin-welded hosels, I'd love to know, beyond my opinion that those who fail to critically consume information are at risk of wasting money, what is it about JDM I'm missing?  

It is all in the feel man nothing feels or hits like a Miura or an older forged iron made in the USA. Like I said man you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I am strictly an old school feel player and have a hightened sense of feel. You may not have the sense of feel that others and I have. I was blessed with an uncanny sense of feel. I am not getting in any peeing contest with you or anyone else. You have your opinion and I have mine

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Well... Alfriday said what I've been thinking for some time. I just didn't want to say anything for fear of reprisal or a beat-down by TC. That's Tony Covey. There have been several articles written by him that I though were crude; classless. Other times he seemed to have an arrogant tone that if you don't agree with him you're an idiot. I know I've said a few things in the forum that may have chapped a few. So, I guess the pot can't entirely call the kettle black. However, MGS thinks they are different, edgy, smarter, better, etc. than other golf sites. Maybe. Maybe not. I read many other golf sites. Overall I enjoy the forum mostly. The Blog - not so much.

What I enjoy most is right here....in the forum/community. I've met (virtually speaking) quite a few guys I enjoy reading their comments and posts. I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy even more meeting them in person and playing golf with them.

Glad you made this post Alfriday.

Teee heee heee He came over here and tried to beat me down but I stood my ground!! 

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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I'd be interested to know how you've drawn the conclusion my knowledge of JDM is basically nill - I have no issue with people who don't agree...hell, that's part of the fun of actually being able to articulate an opinion. That said, it's clear in reading the comments, some people aren't very interested in actually reading the entire piece...just picking and choosing (and often misquoting) portions which serve their agenda....And even that is to be expected, to a degree...

 

That being said,  I've spent a fair bit of time researching the topic at hand and my opinion is one rooted in fact and confirmed by experience and opinions of people who exist on the inside of the industry - So at the risk of starting a debate on the validity of spin-welded hosels, I'd love to know, beyond my opinion that those who fail to critically consume information are at risk of wasting money, what is it about JDM I'm missing

 

Thanks for jumping in because I'm on the fence about your piece on the blog and thought my comments would get lost out there. Also JDM equipment is out of my price range so I'm not that interested in it. My question or concern about your piece is that I would have liked more imperial evidence. Do the tolerance differences, if real, matter? Your claim seems to be no or that the JDM folks haven't demonstrated that it's yes. I'd like to see some proof either way.

 

As to Stu's point, "for you" nothing feels like a well hit blade "for you." You can't say what it feels like for me or another player. I left the blade brigade a long time ago with the Ping Eye two. I wasn't alone as tons of tour players bagged that iron for some time. I'm equally convinced that my choice of a GI iron is the better one. But I've finally come to the conclusion that if the club doesn't fit a player's eye or feel right in his hands it's not going to work.

 

Better swings produce better shots and you're going to swing better with a blade while I swing better with a shovel. Believe or not I can feel the ball off the club face of that shovel and know when I hit the sweet spot.

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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Back to Al's point consider that Tony's piece on equipment got around a dozen responses while his edgy one on Pebble got nearly 100. If I were him I know which way I'd go with my Blog pieces. :)

 

Al stick in here, we're more civil in our discussions and we enjoy having your input.

Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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It is all in the feel man nothing feels or hits like a Miura or an older forged iron made in the USA. Like I said man you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I am strictly an old school feel player and have a hightened sense of feel. You may not have the sense of feel that others and I have. I was blessed with an uncanny sense of feel. I am not getting in any peeing contest with you or anyone else. You have your opinion and I have mine

 

 

Without a doubt. Everyone has their own opinion on feel and that's not debatable...I've played and hit clubs from pretty much every OEM out there and I certainly my personal favorites...that's part of what makes the game fun - 

 

What I was responding to was your accusation that because I believe a big part of the JDM story is based on lies and misinformation, that somehow equates to me basically knowing nothing about JDM...

 

It's all good. 

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Toney, I served 30 years in the Army and have heard more profanity than you in more languages. By putting profanity into your article, you lost some potential fans.

 

Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. Think about it. There's a better word.

 

Other than that, your assessment of the AT&T Pro-Am was spot on.

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Toney, I served 30 years in the Army and have heard more profanity than you in more languages. By putting profanity into your article, you lost some potential fans.

 

Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. Think about it. There's a better word.

 

Other than that, your assessment of the AT&T Pro-Am was spot on.

 

Not for anything, but profanity, no profanity, this site, and probably my writing in particular is never going to be for the easily offended, so if an F-bomb, or something a bit milder is enough to cost me a reader or two, so be it. I'd venture a guess those aren't the guys who would last long around here regardless.

 

I always enjoy the lack of vocabulary argument. It's one of those things people say when they have a bias against certain words...usually the naughty ones. My vocabulary is just fine, thanks.

 

But lets look at this another way...look at the reaction to my choice of words. Comments like yours, emails....emails and comments defending my choice of words. A dictionary full of words, and few if any elicit more of a response than a well-placed expletive. 

 

I certainly don't use it often...honestly, probably a literal handful of times or less in any given year. That probably won't change.

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Back to Al's point consider that Tony's piece on equipment got around a dozen responses while his edgy one on Pebble got nearly 100. If I were him I know which way I'd go with my Blog pieces. :)

 

Al stick in here, we're more civil in our discussions and we enjoy having your input.

 

Ain't that somethin' Rev? We definitely stirred things up though I always enjoy when people say "this is just clickbait". We even here that about some tweets we send...even when there's nothing to click on. We certainly like it when readers engage - even when it's to blast us for being idiots, but it's never something I personally set out to do.

 

I started to watch the Pebble coverage, and quickly realized it really does exemplify everything that outsiders...and even some of us on the inside, hate about the game. It's basically obnoxious, and so I expressed my feelings about it. 

 

Obviously I'm more than happy with the response...and the same is true of the This is Not That and Chris' JDM article. It's interesting what happens when you post an opinion that might be divisive, or when you wrestle with any of the game's sacred cows. 

 

Sometimes people get riled up. There's nothing wrong with that, one can only hope that people are able to express their disagreements without resorting to personal attacks. That's never a 100% success.

 

You still have family in my area, Rev?

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I really enjoyed this thread and its vocabulary lessons that it entailed. Thanks to all who have expressed themselves. And for those who didn't like this thread, ^@*% it.  :D

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Cobra King FLYZ+ 10.5* w/ Aldila Rogue 125 R 44.5"

Tour Issued TM M2 10.5 w/ Mitsubishi Tensi CK Pro Blue 60S

Tour Issued TM M2 15* w/ GD Tour AD 7S 43"

TM R7 17.5 HFS w/ Tour AD 7S Stiff 42"

Cobra S3 Pro's 4-pw w/ Aldila RIP Tours SLT 115 Reg. 5i 38.5"

Titleist Vokey Proto's

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Long story T but my son ended up staying in a plum assignment right where he's at.

Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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I'd be interested to know how you've drawn the conclusion my knowledge of JDM is basically nill - I have no issue with people who don't agree...hell, that's part of the fun of actually being able to articulate an opinion. That said, it's clear in reading the comments, some people aren't very interested in actually reading the entire piece...just picking and choosing (and often misquoting) portions which serve their agenda....And even that is to be expected, to a degree...

 

That being said,  I've spent a fair bit of time researching the topic at hand and my opinion is one rooted in fact and confirmed by experience and opinions of people who exist on the inside of the industry - So at the risk of starting a debate on the validity of spin-welded hosels, I'd love to know, beyond my opinion that those who fail to critically consume information are at risk of wasting money, what is it about JDM I'm missing

 

Thanks for jumping in because I'm on the fence about your piece on the blog and thought my comments would get lost out there. Also JDM equipment is out of my price range so I'm not that interested in it. My question or concern about your piece is that I would have liked more imperial evidence. Do the tolerance differences, if real, matter? Your claim seems to be no or that the JDM folks haven't demonstrated that it's yes. I'd like to see some proof either way.

 

As to Stu's point, "for you" nothing feels like a well hit blade "for you." You can't say what it feels like for me or another player. I left the blade brigade a long time ago with the Ping Eye two. I wasn't alone as tons of tour players bagged that iron for some time. I'm equally convinced that my choice of a GI iron is the better one. But I've finally come to the conclusion that if the club doesn't fit a player's eye or feel right in his hands it's not going to work.

 

Better swings produce better shots and you're going to swing better with a blade while I swing better with a shovel. Believe or not I can feel the ball off the club face of that shovel and know when I hit the sweet spot.

 

Here are some general thoughts - 

 

With feel, there's nothing to debate - People have their own preference and ultimately play what works best for them...

 

There's also some inconsistency in what people actually define as JDM - I go with the definition that JDM are clubs marketed and sold specifically to the Japanese Domestic Market - Not just clubs made, manufactured or designed in Japan or by a Japanese company - That said, for many the cost is off-putting in light of the fact performance is a function of a number of variables, not just production tolerances.

 

In terms of empirical (I think this is what you meant by imperial?) evidence, I think it's the other way around - People have accepted certain things as truth w/o any evidence to back that up in the first place. And now people want evidence to disprove something they accepted as truth w/o any evidence in the first place. 

 

I'm all about statistically significant studies which show definitively the performance benefits of the varied fitting philosophies, types of clubs, etc. Fortunately, sites like MGS perform these tests all the time and produce awesome information which truly helps people make better decisions. That said, my opinion is a lot of the hype around JDM, is simply that, hype w/o anything to back it up. No one can debate personal preference, but it really depends what your bottom line is. If it's getting a set of irons which are dead on in terms of headweight, loft/lie right out of the box, JDM does an awesome job of that. Is that worth the premium in price? That's totally up to you. Typically, if there is superiority in any industry, people eventually move toward that product - and if not in masses, at least in majority.

 

It certainly stands to reason club builders would much rather start with a club that's exactly at "x" weight rather than having to add a couple grams of tip weight, etc. - This certainly makes the process easier. But I've never seen any information which shows any performance difference in a clubhead that weights say 267 grams and one that weighs 264 grams and has 3 gr. of lead tape...

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Thanks that's very helpful.  Of course I meant empirical my IPad felt differently though. :)

 

I'm on the laptop at work which is a much safer piece of equipment.  I'm all about value and so my theory has always been if the JDM clubs afforded that great of advantage why wouldn't we see everyone playing the game for money bagging them?

 

I think that quality, well fit equipment gives a player the best chance to shoot the lowest score that he or she possibly can - it doesn't make me Jack Nicklaus - God (natural ability) and hard work do that.

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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Thanks that's very helpful.  Of course I meant empirical my IPad felt differently though. :)

 

I'm on the laptop at work which is a much safer piece of equipment.  I'm all about value and so my theory has always been if the JDM clubs afforded that great of advantage why wouldn't we see everyone playing the game for money bagging them?

 

I think that quality, well fit equipment gives a player the best chance to shoot the lowest score that he or she possibly can - it doesn't make me Jack Nicklaus - God (natural ability) and hard work do that.

 

To me, there's always a reason certain products run ahead of others. When that happens, there's typically a story there. But we don't have that situation in the golf industry right now - There are a lot of OEM's who make a lot of really quality equipment and for my money, performance differences are more the result of fitting and getting clubs which match a players abilities, than anything else.

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I know that we've seriously jacked this thread but that last comment is exactly why it's tough on OEMs that are trying to break in or rebrand. The market is shrinking or correcting may be more accurate and everyone is basically producing the same type of club in one of three categories. It's hard to separate or distinguish so if I'm Joe Blow consumer I start with what I know and find something..

 

I'm an older guy, there's no compelling reason for me to try Nike or Cleveland or Bridgestone because I'm going to find something from Ping or Titleist or TMAg that works first. I ended up with Wilson irons because my teacher was a Wilson guy and I remembered the brand. They had something that fit me perfectly, done deal.

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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