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Nicklaus on the ball


revkev

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think a "tour spec" ball with reduced distance can work. Even if it is only to keep golf courses in check. Otherwise they will only keep lengthening the courses as far as possible. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with the golf balls today. Sure they might go further and spin better, etc. than a ball from Jack's era, but every single player is using a ball (and clubs) that conforms within the same set of rules that apply to every other player on tour. The only issue I can see is that you cannot properly compare players from 30-40 years ago (Jack, Gary Player, Greg Norman) with the current crop (Jordan, Day & Rory), due to the different clubs and balls, etc.

 

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To be honest, I don't see anything wrong with the golf balls today. Sure they might go further and spin better, etc. than a ball from Jack's era, but every single player is using a ball (and clubs) that conforms within the same set of rules that apply to every other player on tour. The only issue I can see is that you cannot properly compare players from 30-40 years ago (Jack, Gary Player, Greg Norman) with the current crop (Jordan, Day & Rory), due to the different clubs and balls, etc.

That's an easy comparison Jack and Player won grand slams while Norman won fewer majors than Larry Nelson. :)

 

Seriously it is what it is and your point is well taken. So long as everyone is playing by the same rules. Mom and so long as those rules don't interfer with the enjoyment of the rank and file golfer. The anchored putter ban is a prime example of the latter and rolling back the ball would be worse.

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  • 2 months later...

I think it would make things more interesting on the Tour if the players were coming in to the greens with 3 or 4 irons on long par 4s instead of 9 irons and PWs. The ball could be left alone for amateur golfers.

 

The way things are going many golf courses are really nothing but pitch and putt courses for Tour pros with the modern ball and Modern equipment.

 

I remember it all starting when John Daly destroyed the immature course at Crooked stick.

Golf courses will keep getting longer and longer which then plays into the hands of the big hitters even more so.

 

It just shows how skillful  the ball strikers of yesteryear really were when you look at some of the scores they made and the shots they took on.

We have guys today who have won majors that cannot even consistently work a ball left and right and can not hold a candle to the skill of working a ball as the Golfers like Jack or Hogan or Trevino, Chi Chi rodriguez , Floyd etc 

 

Golf is still a great game to watch  but I feel there are a few guys on many courses on tour that take the dangers out of play off the tee and a wayward shot is not punishing them as it should.

 

Jack was a stickler in his course design that you should have to play 3 good shots to get a par on a par 3 or 4 on a par 4 etc. you had to play a great shot to get a birdie.

 

Nowadays a Tour golfer can hit his tee shot wayward and still get a birdie due to the modern clubs and balls taking the serious dangers out of play and the many courses cannot be changed too much as there is not enough real estate to lengthen them any more.

Whatever will be will be but either way golf will still be a great game to watch and play.

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I'm confused. I know the pros are great. But I watch them play bad all the time. Whether it's a high score round or as minor as hitting in the woods a few times off the tee. So, why does anyone need to change anything. If they start hitting every fairway and making every putt and they all shoot 50's and 60's. Then we can contemplate changes.

 

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I'm confused. I know the pros are great. But I watch them play bad all the time. Whether it's a high score round or as minor as hitting in the woods a few times off the tee. So, why does anyone need to change anything. If they start hitting every fairway and making every putt and they all shoot 50's and 60's. Then we can contemplate changes.

 

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True, but I think you are confusing distance with scoring, which are not mutually exclusive to any level of golfer. True enough, greater distance is desirable but if you cannot convert that into a low score, then any perceived advantage is lost. The humble ball and its part in this hasn't really changed much in over 100 years - the old drive for show and putt for dough saying still holds true.

Where Jack and his call for restricting the distance of the golf ball falls short is how that accounts for scoring in real terms - everyone would love a so-called "distance" ball off the tee and a soft high spin ball around the greens, but the stats simply don't stack up in favour of a ball that has a distance advantage of any kind.

Conversely, players with enough talent to take advantage of the receptive qualities of a ball (Jack included) have a distinct advantage over anyone else and any ball they might choose to adopt. So to make a blanket judgement on the ball and how it has gone too far (pun intended) is plain wrong. You either have the talent to control a ball or you don't - the rough and the trees are full enough of lost balls as it stands from players who think distance has an advantage.

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True, but I think you are confusing distance with scoring, which are not mutually exclusive to any level of golfer. True enough, greater distance is desirable but if you cannot convert that into a low score, then any perceived advantage is lost. The humble ball and its part in this hasn't really changed much in over 100 years - the old drive for show and putt for dough saying still holds true.

Where Jack and his call for restricting the distance of the golf ball falls short is how that accounts for scoring in real terms - everyone would love a so-called "distance" ball off the tee and a soft high spin ball around the greens, but the stats simply don't stack up in favour of a ball that has a distance advantage of any kind.

Conversely, players with enough talent to take advantage of the receptive qualities of a ball (Jack included) have a distinct advantage over anyone else and any ball they might choose to adopt. So to make a blanket judgement on the ball and how it has gone too far (pun intended) is plain wrong. You either have the talent to control a ball or you don't - the rough and the trees are full enough of lost balls as it stands from players who think distance has an advantage.

Ok. So, still a little confused. Aren't we talking about dialing the golf ball down so players can't hit it so far and "potentially" score lower. We'll, like the other sports, it's what the fans want to see. Until golfers start hitting each other in the back of the head while they're waiting in the fairway for their next shot. They won't change the ball for less distance.

 

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I'm still trying to figure out how a different ball that doesn't fly as far isn't still an advantage for longer players - Won't they still be longer relative to the other players? Personally, I'd prefer to see more courses like Merion rather than trying to reign in technology to get certain results

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Ok. So, still a little confused. Aren't we talking about dialing the golf ball down so players can't hit it so far and "potentially" score lower. We'll, like the other sports, it's what the fans want to see. Until golfers start hitting each other in the back of the head while they're waiting in the fairway for their next shot. They won't change the ball for less distance.

 

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Like I said - is there any correlation between distance and scoring? "Potentially" it's possible to shoot lower scores with shorter clubs to the green, but as we have already established there is no direct relationship with the ball and scores. And as we've already established too, "dialling down" the ball only serves to help those who can already hit the ball further anyway.

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I'm still trying to figure out how a different ball that doesn't fly as far isn't still an advantage for longer players - Won't they still be longer relative to the other players? Personally, I'd prefer to see more courses like Merion rather than trying to reign in technology to get certain results

 

I may be wrong but I think that I read somewhere that the modern ball goes nuts with distance when hit extra hard by the big hitting Tour pros with the modern equipment,

 

I think that the really big hitters  gain a lot more out of the modern ball  than the shorter hitters on tour and a dial back in ball distance would actually make it a more level playing field and negate some of the advantage that bigger hitters have in the modern game..

 

Accuracy  and then distance from the tee should be what wins much of the time on  all mature courses and if you make courses longer and longer to try and  thwart big hitters then you play into the bigger hitters hands more and more.

 

Big hitters if they are straight will always have some advantage but being able to shape the ball all ways should be more important, I think if the ball were dialed back in distance then we would see a few different players at the top.

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I may be wrong but I think that I read somewhere that the modern ball goes nuts with distance when hit extra hard by the big hitting Tour pros with the modern equipment,

 

I think that the really big hitters gain a lot more out of the modern ball than the shorter hitters on tour and a dial back in ball distance would actually make it a more level playing field and negate some of the advantage that bigger hitters have in the modern game..

 

Accuracy and then distance from the tee should be what wins much of the time on all mature courses and if you make courses longer and longer to try and thwart big hitters then you play into the bigger hitters hands more and more.

 

Big hitters if they are straight will always have some advantage but being able to shape the ball all ways should be more important, I think if the ball were dialed back in distance then we would see a few different players at the top.

If you dial back distance, it wouldn't make a difference. The shorter hitters would just get shorter too. Besides, alot of the big hitters short games aren't great. Even though DJ's is getting better. I think it's all fine where it is.

 

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Personally, I don't understand why everyone get their panties all in a bunch because the tour players make the game look easy at times. I think it's awesome. Shows us all the limits of what's possible with current gear. You can't tell me you don't enjoy watching Jason Day or Dustin Johnson bomb it 360.

 

I see nothing wrong with it at this juncture. And like others have said, it's not like there aren't guys out there struggling all the time.

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I'm still trying to figure out how a different ball that doesn't fly as far isn't still an advantage for longer players - Won't they still be longer relative to the other players? Personally, I'd prefer to see more courses like Merion rather than trying to reign in technology to get certain results

Dead on it!! If you for example hit a Pro V 20 yards further than I do then you will STILL hit say a limited flite range ball further than I do if I am hitting the same ball as you are. Things evolve and golf has certainly evolved in the 40 plus years I have played it. And yes certainly you can have a tight course like Merion that they can not bomb and gorge the driver on but then you still have straight 300 yard 2 irons. I personally do not see anything wrong with the modern game. I do not care how far one hits it you still gotta score.

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That's an easy comparison Jack and Player won grand slams while Norman won fewer majors than Larry Nelson. :)

 

Seriously it is what it is and your point is well taken. So long as everyone is playing by the same rules. Mom and so long as those rules don't interfer with the enjoyment of the rank and file golfer. The anchored putter ban is a prime example of the latter and rolling back the ball would be worse.

The groove rule and the anchored putter thing is what got me started on my "war" with the USGA. They have ruined it for the rank and file recreational golfer. But then again what I call most recreational golfers do not give a hoot about the USGA anyhow or their stupid rules> They just do their thing and play and have fun. BTW briefly on the anchored putter thing. We (as you do in your area) have a lot of retirees in our area that play with a lot of old age ailments that putt anchored belly or sternum. A lot of them were going to just quit the game. A bunch of the Men's golf leagues and associations voted to ought right disregard the anchor ban and dismember themselves from the USGA period. In fact I have a buddy of mine who is doing the handicaps for some of the leagues on his computer for them. Rolling back the ball at this stage will only hurt the game for the general masses at this point and personally I do not see the need to do it on the Professional tours either. Just IMHO FWIW

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What do Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods have in common?

 

They were all filthy long for their era.

 

When I think about it I can name non filthy long guys in each era that won too. They were all long enough. :)

 

 

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It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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The only difference is that the modern ball gives much more distance, percentage wise with club head speed than the old ball ever did, so the big hitters are glven more of an advantage today than they ever were in the past and there are more of them.

 

Big hitters will always have advantage of a club or 2 less in to the green in any era but the modern ball has also forced many courses to be lengthened and this is against the shorter hitters too.

 

For example on tour in 1980 there were 170 golfers all within 20 yards of each other  off the tee and only 6 golfers on the PGA tour were longer than that.

 

 In 2011 there were 81 golfers  within 20 yards of each other off the tee and 105 were longer than that.  So a higher number of golfers are hitting the modern ball much further than well over half the field.

 

Many good courses have been reduced to almost pitch and putt status and putting contests, scoring is not dramatically improving due to many modern golfers not having the skill of the greats from the past at working the ball, left, Right, High, Low etc.

 

I think if the ball was dialed back for the pros, the shorter hitters although still shorter, would not be as far behind in distance as they are today and all the golfers would be making their approach shots with longer clubs than they are right now and it would be more exiting for the viewer.

 

The balls could be left well alone for amateur golfers. This is my opinion but the stats do point to more speed off the club face with the modern ball and more hang time than the balls of the past and it seems there are no limits or less limits compared to the balls of yesteryear.

 

Of course the 6 longest hitters had a slight advantage back in 1980 but the rest of the PGA tour were within 20 yards of each other because the old ball had a limit to the distance it could travel, unlike the modern ball.

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  • 1 month later...

Just as an aside ,did anyone out there hear him speak at arnies service? My take is Jack is in llove with himself and made a comment about Arnie offering to split the gate in a one day playoff i think to win the us open . Mr squeaky said no but thanked him saying he did win and took home $1400. Typical jack

 

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