Wilson Brand

[revkev]

Barbajo probably stole my thunder here with the Nike thread. He started his because of the action in the Driver testing opportunity. I'm starting this one because of the inactivity on Mark's thread and mine on our new irons.

 

Wilson once was what Titleist is today. If you saw Wilson in a guys back it screamed out. Player! Unlike Titleist though they were innovative. They sensed that there would be a GI market so they developed club's for it and they also produced boxed sets for discount stores. It was the latter that nearly killed them.

 

Frankly I would not have tried Wilson if it weren't that my teacher is a Wilson/Mizuno guy and Wilson was at the better price point. The C100's have served me well. There was no upcharge for an after market shaft. They represented a good value. The C200's demonstrate that they listen to consumers as they've addressed certain issues. The products in their other categories represent good values at favorable price points. They have a reasonable demo plan, too.

 

So what do you think when you see Wilson? What would they have to do to get you to try their club's? Lots of buzz around Hogan and their stuff is no where near the value of what Wilson puts out. Further Wilson was bigger for longer back in the day. Thoughts or crickets?

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Chris O.]

I'm always in to give Wilson a shout out whenever I can. I suppose I'm a bit younger and a few years ago I fell into the category of not knowing Wilson made high quality stuff outside of the box sets. It wasn't until I started working in the industry that I saw their "good stuff" and I gave it a try and I've been hooked on their irons ever since. As a company they've always been really easy to work with and the rep in our area is awesome. I think they have a lot of good things going for them and I hope they continue to grow.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[McaseyM]

I'm a fan of Wilson, i play their hybrid from last year, doesn't hurt that they picked up some engineers and designers from Adams.

They are working to get their equipment out there, at the upcoming mega demo day at Haggin Oaks here in Sacramento, while most companies may throw you a hat with a paid fitting appointment ($25) , they are giving you a wedge (not sure which line)

I appreciate the break down of their line up for what type of clubs you are looking for, and their DUO ball has been very highly rated, so I think they're on the upwsing. 

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Excellent thread - this maybe should start a trend!

 

Like Rev, and most other older guys, I remember Wilson's heyday in golf - they were IT.  And then they weren't.  

 

Being able to tell that story in blog form over a year ago was a treat and a great learning experience. In my mind you have to look at Wilson Staff as a $120 million dollar company - it's a small, lean outfit.  They have a lot of talent working there and an excellent R&D team led by Michael Vrksa.  I'd say since 2012 or so their irons have been as good as anyones, and their woods - while not overly "sexy" - are on the upswing.  More importantly, as a company, I get the impression that they know who they are and, more importantly, who they aren't.  

 

During my visit Doug Thiel, their global marketing director, said "Yeah, Wilson isn't TaylorMade, but then again, there was a time when TaylorMade wasn't Wilson, either."  Given developments in the past year, that seems to have been a prophetic statement.  They keep their marketing budget under control, simply because they're a little company and they have to, even though they're part of a gigantic global entity in Amer Sports.  They live within their means.  I visited there about a month ago with a local Minnesota teaching pro. We met with the marketing department, the R&D team and their Tour fitter.  When we left, he said "that's the kind of company I want to work with. They're nice people."  Bryan isn't the kind of guy to be wowed by fancy lobbies, flashy offices or high-powered suits - he's as down to earth as a golf pro can get.  Take that for what you will, but in my mind that's the kind of company Wilson is at this point -- they have to be personal to keep moving forward.  

[hckymeyer]

I haven't hit a lot of Wilson stuff lately, but they have definitely been on my radar.  A lot of that is due to Barbajo's gushing reviews of their stuff over the past couple seasons.  If I was in the position of wanting new irons the F5 and C200 would definitely be on the short list to demo.  

 

I love it when companies come out with quality products and instead of paying a premium you actually get a price break compared to their competitors.  Being able to pick up their used equipment dirt cheap is also a big plus in my book.

[Jmikecpa]

My view is that I really like the gear that they are coming out with, but I grew up in the boxed set generation for Wilson.  Heck the last notable player from my younger days that I remember playing Wilson clubs was JD in the early 90's (still would love to hit the "0" iron) with the Killer Whale driver.  After that they seemed to just morph into quite frankly where Adams is right now.  Recently I hit their utility iron and liked it a lot and would have put one in the bag if I could have purchased it with a shaft that fit me.  Really like the trajectory that they are on at the moment, but have apprehension that they can compete in the driver/fairway wood market (similar to Mizuno).

[JudgeSmails]

As a brand name, Wilson Staff doesn't seem to carry the cache that alot of the other brands do.  Think they have a reputation of being 'cheap' or your 'grampas clubs'.  But they are making some great quality products.  I can't wait to start gaming all my new equipment, from the demo of the C200 irons, I feel like Wilson is actually trying to make strides in performance through technology (flex face), as opposed to jacking the lofts and claiming extra distance (cough cough Taylor Made cough)

[J_Wurz]

I love my M3 gunmetal black irons and wedges. I also have the D200 driver, 3 wood and 5 wood. Love it all!! I can hit that 5 wood 260!! Most the time I should prob hit that instead of driver! I'm young"er" and dumb! Going to regrip soon so I'll be even more deadly with these irons!! #Wilson4life

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[JudgeSmails]

I also feel like since they don't have a ton of pga tour players, esp big names, it's harder for them to create a 'buzz'

Sent from my SM-G900V using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[fozcycle]

I gamed the Wilson R90 Sand Wedge for 20 years....and would pull it out occassionally until I got my SCOR wedges.  I have always thought well of Wilson, but continue to get confused between Wilson and Wilson staff......They should put all of their golf equipment under one label....like the "F", "C" and "D" categories.

 

[jayjay0808]

The problem was that once Wilson's majority of equipment ended up being box sets the view of the company changed.

 

I think that Wilson produces some of the best irons and balls out there. The FG Tour ball is one of the best on the market and there is no denying the feel of their M irons rivals the highest rated OEM's.

[Mr_Theoo]

I guess I look at the Wilson brand the way many look at Nike. I don't seek their products out to demo them but if I see them in the store I will hit it.

[PlaidJacket]

I remember getting my first "real" set of Irons. They were my dads originally. Wilson Staff Dyna-Power Fluid Feel. I'll also never forget the look on my Dad's face when my mom insisted that he give them to me. It was like he was getting an arm cut off or something. He had switched to something else and the Staffs were just sitting in the corner of the garage. It was a full set 2i - SW including the driver and three FW woods. Sweet. I played them for quite a number of years and still have all of them to this day. Thanks Mom.

[revkev]

As a brand name, Wilson Staff doesn't seem to carry the cache that alot of the other brands do.  Think they have a reputation of being 'cheap' or your 'grampas clubs'.  But they are making some great quality products.  I can't wait to start gaming all my new equipment, from the demo of the C200 irons, I feel like Wilson is actually trying to make strides in performance through technology (flex face), as opposed to jacking the lofts and claiming extra distance (cough cough Taylor Made cough)

Didn't you game Wilson staffs in the movie?

 

I'm very happy to see some Wilson love here. I played the Duo Urethane on the back nine today and was even going into 18. Pulled it into the bunker for a choking dog double to pair up nicely with my double choking dog 42 on the front. Regardless it's a great ball with a feel approaching the old balata balls but distance that matches any modern tour ball out there. Spin is okay, similar to most tour balls.

[Undershooter]

I believe Wilson Staff makes great clubs/balls and I recommend them to anyone who ask. I've actually gotten a few buddies converted over to the Duo. Sadly I forget about them sometimes and I'm not sure why. Not many people in my area play them and they aren't readily available for the most part. I don't game any Wilson clubs but I don't have a good reason for that other than I like what's already in my bag. Really like their golf balls too, The entire range. I think Wilson is brand that unfairly gets forgotten which is sad because they make quality equipment.

[Peaksy68]

I also remember when Wilson Staff blades were top of the tree.  My first set were Wilson GE1200s, bought second hand around 1990. My brother had a set of Wilson Staff blades that were way too much for him. The sweet spot was tiny, but if you found it, it was incredibly sweet.

 

I've hit a few of the more recent higher end irons, thought they were pretty good.  Haven't tried the Duo Urethane, my daughter plays the original Duo, might try the Urethane model for her.

[jbil8802]

I'm a fan of Wilson Staff and the direction they're heading as a company. Especially enjoyed the pieces Barbajo did on them for the blog. I just don't know anyone that games them and there isn't anywhere local to try them.

[sp0rtsfan86]

The Wilson Brand has been one of those that got a bad rap (perhaps because of the boxed sets) but has started to produce some really good stuff.  My dads irons were great and helped him enjoy golf again after years of playing with 30 year old clubs. 

 

As I recently posted in the Wilson thread, they sold me. I switched gamers to the Wilson Duo Urethane. At this point it's about getting hte clubs and balls in hands of players. I went to three stores before I found a golf smith that carried the Duo Urethane which means they also have that problem.

 

Either way, think Wilson's word of mouth will help them more, and if they can grow sales and spread out they may be a force, but could also end up not being more than a bit player.

[deejaid]

I also remember Wilson as a discount store box brand. Wilson was sold at Kmart or Walmart as a complete set right next to nerf footballs and badminton sets. When they did start making better clubs it seemed to be gimmicks. Remember the Fat Shaft irons?

 

I think the first time I saw a new Wilson model and said "Wow" was the FI5 combo set. Beautiful, clean forged irons. Then Padraig Harrington had some wins with th Wilson Pi5 irons, which were a good looking and performing small cavity back.

 

Unfortunately, I think Wilson has never figured out what they want as their image. They have tried their best to shake the discount brand label, but after a few years of classic looking clubs, the Fi5 and Pi5, they have gone to more modern looking clubs like the C200 which look like Cobra's to me. It seems to be an identity crisis. If you can't stand out how can you win over buyers, especially buyers that remember the cheap Wilson.

 

Personally, as a contrarian myself, I'd game a set of Wilsons. I never liked having what everyone else is playing. But again, I'm drawn to their 10 year old designs, not the high tech looking clubs they are currently selling.

[Kanoito]

I also picked up the game during the Wilson boxed set generation, hence was never interested in trying them out.

However, I do think they offer quality equipment for other sports... I played tennis for many years during high school and all my gear was Wilson.

[revkev]

I also picked up the game during the Wilson boxed set generation, hence was never interested in trying them out.

However, I do think they offer quality equipment for other sports... I played tennis for many years during high school and all my gear was Wilson.

The A2000 was and in many ways still is the standard for professional level baseball gloves. I remember saving my job money for mine in High School, all of $45. I got it junior year and then switched to catcher senior year which is what I played in college. I think one of my boys still has that glove though.

 

@Deejaid I think Wilson does have a plan. Based on what I'm seeing from this thread it seems to be working. They are getting slow but predictable growth. Your comment also demonstrates why Tour presence is so important. It took some Harrington success to get Wilson back in the game so to speak. I believe they are doing better in regard to market share in Europe that in the US. That Urethane Duo ball is very good and they have two nice offerings in the Player's category if that's what your eye prefers.

[fozcycle]

I also remember Wilson as a discount store box brand. Wilson was sold at Kmart or Walmart as a complete set right next to nerf footballs and badminton sets. When they did start making better clubs it seemed to be gimmicks. Remember the Fat Shaft irons?

 

I think the first time I saw a new Wilson model and said "Wow" was the FI5 combo set. Beautiful, clean forged irons. Then Padraig Harrington had some wins with th Wilson Pi5 irons, which were a good looking and performing small cavity back.

 

Unfortunately, I think Wilson has never figured out what they want as their image. They have tried their best to shake the discount brand label, but after a few years of classic looking clubs, the Fi5 and Pi5, they have gone to more modern looking clubs like the C200 which look like Cobra's to me. It seems to be an identity crisis. If you can't stand out how can you win over buyers, especially buyers that remember the cheap Wilson.

 

Personally, as a contrarian myself, I'd game a set of Wilsons. I never liked having what everyone else is playing. But again, I'm drawn to their 10 year old designs, not the high tech looking clubs they are currently selling.

 

 

 

Back in the 1960's & 1970's that is how golf clubs were sold to the masses....Kmart and Sears were the only places that stocked box sets of clubs.  All others had to come from Pro Shops.  I guess Wilson kept selling them that way too long.

 

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

To get to the heart of Wilson's downfall, you need to remember they were once owned by Pepsi.  Pepsi was really good as putting things in boxes and selling them - which is how the boxed set idea started in the 70's.  

 

I'm not sure the boxed set caused the downfall - although it does represent the downfall.  Wilson went through three owners in 4 years in the late 80's, and was hemorrhaging money in the early 90's.  Starting in '93 management began trimming and cutting back on Tour Staff, and not long after that they began cutting back on Tour-level equipment and developing equipment for the recreational golfer.  Fat Shaft performed, but it wasn't really tour level.  As losses mounted and sales plumetted, R&D was gutted and down the rabbit hole they went.

 

Wilson Golf bottomed out in 2006 and was close to being sold off or shut down.  Tim Clarke took over and really changed the direction of the unit.  He focused on Tour level equipment and signing a small group of Tour players.  Never underestimate the importance of Padraig's 3 majors in 18 months on Wilson's fortunes - he has 13 Wilson clubs in the bag for all 3 wins.

 

It's a fascinating narrative. Their challenge now is distribution, but they're not the only company facing that challenge - and it's not as simple as snapping your fingers and saying we're going to get our stuff on the shelves at the big retailers.  That shelf space is at a premium, and those with 3% market share find it hard to occupy it.  

[Badfish]

Jmikecpa, I almost forgot about the Killer whale!  I played one for several years.  Unfortunately when most people think of Wilson they associate it with Tom Hanks buddy in Cast Away.  The damage that was done by selling their clubs in the big box stores has been difficult to overcome.  The kids today are playing lime green drivers, and wearing flat bill hats.  I don't believe this is Wilson's market.   I would like to see Wilson focus on occupying  a similar niche as Hogan. Hogan put out a quality forged iron that was subtle in appearance with a premium-retro image.  A players club.  Wilson has this in their FG Tour V4 blades.  They're beautiful, relatively inexpensive, and have that quality retro vibe.   I think we can all agree that they are on their way to brand rejuvenation.  It wasn't that long ago that Wilson and Hogan were in the category of Spalding and Ram  as clubs of a by gone era.

[revkev]

Hogans time as a top club maker was a blip compared to Wilson. I'd suggest that the companies have very little in common today. The key for Wilson was hitting a home run with Harrington. I live in an area where tons of golf is played year round. I play golf on two very different courses with very different sets of clientele. I occasionally see Wilson equipment. I've yet to see a new Hogan club anywhere. I know Hogan has a plan but I wonder if it will work. Wilson seems to be working it's plan hard. Its hard for me to imagine a golf brand succeeding without some sort of your presence.

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Kenny B]

Fat Shaft performed, but it wasn't really tour level.  

 

The Wilson Fat Shaft driver was the only Wilson club I have ever owned.  I didn't start playing until the early '90s, and for some reason I never went to boxed clubs.  Our club pro carried and played Wilson clubs and when the Fat Shaft came out, he talked me into the driver.  It was an OK club, but just after that, he dropped the Wilsons and went Nike.  I stuck with my Ping Eye 2 irons until I got the Macgregor VIP Tourneys.  One of the guys at my old club is still playing the Fat Shaft irons and hits them very well.

[revkev]

Great day for a Wilson today. They get to have an informercial for five hours. Two of their pros in the final group. Nice!

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Great day for a Wilson today. They get to have an informercial for five hours. Two of their pros in the final group. Nice!

 

Too bad the team couldn't keep it up -- Ricky's recovery those following the unplayable in the cactus was amazing - but he couldn't sink the putt and it unraveled from there.  4 guys in the final 4 groups - that's pretty cool.  

 

Felt bad for Ricky - he's one of the guys I met when I went tot he photo shoot a year and a half ago.  What a good guy and he still burns over not winning the 2010 open -- he feels like he had a golden opportunity and blew it (his words).  Hope he gets a win someday.

[~^~]

I didn't start golf until 1998, and my first set were Wilson Pro Staffs, Dvr, 3w, 5w, 3i-PW, on sale for $100 brand new. My first PGA teacher looked at them and noted the TT Dynamic Gold shafts and told me they were fine clubs. I played them for 2 years. Regripped them once, too. Gave them away to the First Tee.