Why l Don't Play in Net Scrambles or Carry an USGA HC

[~^~]

These are the first and second place scores in a Las Vegas Scramble, where the two-man teams post the better ball score after selecting to both play from the best drive. The course is rated 69.0/123/6244yds from the White Tees, and 64.2/110/5317 from the Gold Senior Tees, where most of these guys play.

 

Open Division

 

Low Gross - (66)

Low Net - (57)

 

2nd Gross - (68)

2nd Net - (57)

 

 

Senior Division

 

Low Gross - (66)

Low Net - (49)

 

2nd Gross - (68)

2nd Net - (53)

 

 

Mixed Division

 

Low Gross - (64)

Low Net - (53)

 

2nd Gross - (69)

2nd Net - (55)

[hckymeyer]

Cheaters gonna cheat, haters gonna hate.  Net scrambles generally suck, but I don't play scrambles expecting to win.  I play them to have a blast golfing with some buddies and change up the format from a regular round.

 

I don't see why this makes you not carry a handicap though.

[dru_]

Cheaters gonna cheat, haters gonna hate.  Net scrambles generally suck, but I don't play scrambles expecting to win.  I play them to have a blast golfing with some buddies and change up the format from a regular round.

 

I don't see why this makes you not carry a handicap though.

 

This. Scrambles are cluster anyways. Play to have fun. That said, I've been on a couple of those low scoring teams. The guy I play with is a 6-7 that *can* play to a 1-2 if he has time to put in the practice rounds, but generally does't. I'm a 16, but that is misleading. I can shoot anywhere from +5 to +20 on a given day. We generally have him play 'safe' while I will play high risk/reward golf in a scramble, cutting corners, going for the green on the second shot. IT doesn't take many of those to work out to turn things into an unholy result.

[BigtazzGolf]

Not sure about others, but I play in them to have fun and usually they benefit an organization I care about helping.

I quit going into them thinking I could stock a team and get all kind of strategy going. Rarely does that work.

Just have fun with your friends and focus on that and you'll enjoy it more I bet.

 

Tazz

[MmmmmmBuddy]

These are the first and second place scores in a Las Vegas Scramble, where the two-man teams post the better ball score after selecting to both play from the best drive. The course is rated 69.0/123/6244yds from the White Tees, and 64.2/110/5317 from the Gold Senior Tees, where most of these guys play.

 

I know a course where the slope, rating, and yardages are nearly the same... 65.8/109/5568.  If my normal partner and I could not shoot any lower than Gross 66 in this format, I would be stunned.  I suspect that this is purely a putting contest on a course where the members play..... A LOT...  Give me someone who has a good wedge game and makes a fair share of putts, and we shoot around 60.  

[~^~]

I used to play in scrambles to have fun, but when I finished and went into the clubhouse, it's all about who won what and how much. Generally i enjoyed my partners company, but not the over-competitive bossy types who told me how to play my putts. Even though we may have been respectible score-wise, I would have liked to get a personal score out of a 5-6 hour round. This event didn't benefit any charity, but lots of other events do, usually cost around $60-$80 per person, which includes a chicken or spaghetti dinner. Green fees here are normally $32, so a lot goes to charity, and to prizes, which I would have liked an even chance to win. Obviously I don't believe a HC is a true indication of a players ability, either because of a lack of players integrity or because the calculation is flawed. Just my opinion, I'm sure my presence will not be missed. I play golf alone for other reasons.

[Kor.A.Door]

In a modified scramble those scores can easily be met. If you get to choose the best drive then play from there a guy that plays to 6-7, could easily shoot around par with that format, and since it's the best score of the 2, you could easily have 2 guys that are 6-7 hcp shoot 65. And if they are given full caps in the net score, easily be 53 or lower.

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

I've played in scrambles where you can buy gimmes and mulligans - hell, you invest enough you'll never have to putt.  

 

I played in a best ball with evershady a couple of years go - had a ball but the "low net" was a 53 or something ridiculous like that.  53!!!!  This wasn't a scramble - it was a best ball!!!  a 25 handicap would have to have shot a 78.  It was a head scratcher - but I wonder about the kind of people who would do something like that just to win a silly golf tournament...

[PlaidJacket]

I have to have my arm really twisted to play a scramble. To me it's just a waste of time and a round. Very unsatisfying form of golf.

But... lot's of people like it. 

[Kenny B]

The gross scores are really not that outstanding. However, the nets are a little out of line. How do they figure the net hcp? Here for a two man team, they add 40% of the low cap and 60% of the high cap. Also, the caps must be within 8 strokes, otherwise the high cap's is automatically set to low cap's + 8.

 

 

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[sp0rtsfan86]

I've played in scrambles where you can buy gimmes and mulligans - hell, you invest enough you'll never have to putt.  

 

I played in a best ball with evershady a couple of years go - had a ball but the "low net" was a 53 or something ridiculous like that.  53!!!!  This wasn't a scramble - it was a best ball!!!  a 25 handicap would have to have shot a 78.  It was a head scratcher - but I wonder about the kind of people who would do something like that just to win a silly golf tournament...

Try a 16 handicapper sohoting a 78 in the club championship. That happened at my home course. Scrambles always stink. Even worse a local place here for the club championship lets you write in your own handicap. Golfers like myself call it sandbag central because it literally is a joke won by a guy who shoots 71 off a 10.

 

and for the record scrambles are always a mixed bag. You could end up wtih a guy on a heater with the putter and have a situation where one drives and the rest all get a chip close enough someone can nail it.

[Badfish]

I am the weak link in a group of guys that play scrambles often.  We have fun, but we also have a system.  When playing as a team there are different strategies than in solo play.   I also think that when you have 3 other players watching your swing it can help detect inconsistencies.  I actually think it helps me be a better player.  Granted one of us is a pro, another is in the pgm program at OSU, and the third is a scratch golfer on a bad day...and I'm the "fun one".    We also have some guidelines that we abide by.  For example:  We mark and drop our balls (play them down), if we play a charity/memorial event we donate our winnings, and we avoid the gimmick outings.  Our favorite is being accused of cheating, because this is often an opportunity to make some money.  To me a scramble isn't playing golf, it's more like competitive practice    

[dru_]

I have to have my arm really twisted to play a scramble. To me it's just a waste of time and a round. Very unsatisfying form of golf.

But... lot's of people like it. 

 

I think part of the appeal for high cappers is the opportunity to 'score low' for that one round. We tend to forget that 60% of all of the handicaps in the USGA are an index of 12 or higher. That means that on most courses in the US, they are 14-15 handicaps at BEST, and that assumes they are tracking scores accurately.

[PlaidJacket]

I understand the appeal Dru. There's nothing wrong at all playing a scramble. As for scoring you have to remember.... it "ain't your score". It's the best score 4 guys could make getting 3 mulligans on every shot. But that's a scramble.

[revkev]

I'm struggling to see the problem with those winning scores. I've hardly ever played in a handicapped scramble but have played in enough 2 man scrambles to know 66 or loweris doable, you just need to stuff your wedges or make a few Eagles.

 

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[Jmikecpa]

Scrambles are just for fun and everyone cheats. I played one last year that was no handicap and in my group the highest cap was a 0.9. We lost two four guys that had handicaps in the mid teens.

 

Just pull out the 48" driver and have a rip at it. Generally my plan for this year.

 

 

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[Kenny B]

I am just amazed that people keep showing up to play in scrambles.  When I look at the list of people who sign up, I know who is going to win, and it's not the best players.  When the same people show up thinking they are going to win this time, they are kidding themselves.  At some point I would think that the tournament organizers would be begging players to sign up!

 

Maybe there are just enough people like me that come out to play in a worthwhile charity event; I do it about once every 2-3 years if it's a charity I like and if I'm playing with the right people.

[~^~]

I'm struggling to see the problem with those winning scores. I've hardly ever played in a handicapped scramble but have played in enough 2 man scrambles to know 66 or loweris doable, you just need to stuff your wedges or make a few Eagles.

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Rev, it's the net scores that bother me, but that's just me. Having played in leagues with net scores, I see sandbagging galore, and i've sworn off playing by giving strokes. It only takes one to skew the results for everybody else. For me, it's gross versus gross. I don't care if you're a 5 and I'm a 12; if you beat me, fine, you should. If I don't win, fine, I shouldn't. None of this giving strokes crap. I used to play with a PGA certified member, and he would only very reluctantly give me 1 stroke a side, when I was a 12hc. I didn't blame him, because on some days, I beat him. Gross.

[~^~]

Scrambles are just for fun and everyone cheats. I played one last year that was no handicap and in my group the highest cap was a 0.9. We lost two four guys that had handicaps in the mid teens.

Just pull out the 48" driver and have a rip at it. Generally my plan for this year.

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If I believed that everyone was going to cheat, then when I show up, I might as well stand in the parking lot and throw my money in the air. That isn't the charity I was supporting.

[~^~]

I am just amazed that people keep showing up to play in scrambles.  When I look at the list of people who sign up, I know who is going to win, and it's not the best players.  When the same people show up thinking they are going to win this time, they are kidding themselves.  At some point I would think that the tournament organizers would be begging players to sign up!

 

Maybe there are just enough people like me that come out to play in a worthwhile charity event; I do it about once every 2-3 years if it's a charity I like and if I'm playing with the right people.

Ken, you're right. The same groups win every time. And the course practically begs players to come out. I asked one guy from the winning group, what he did with the multiple golf bags, coolers, putters, drivers, etc, that he won. I said, "Really, how many golf bags do you need?" He said, "Oh, I just give them away to my son-in-law, cousins, nephews.."

[revkev]

Rev, it's the net scores that bother me, but that's just me. Having played in leagues with net scores, I see sandbagging galore, and i've sworn off playing by giving strokes. It only takes one to skew the results for everybody else. For me, it's gross versus gross.

Got ya. My league is net scores but it's very caefully policed right down to the rules of golf. You get caught cheating you get one warning, get caught again and you're gone. The core of the league has been the same for 15 years so everyone has a sense of how each other plays. League officers make it a point to play with new people the first year. Outscoring is modified stableford and we are delighted by handicap. I like the league.

 

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[silver & black]

I play in 4-5 scrambles a year. The last one we finished 16 under.... and lost to a team of teenagers who miraculously shot 19 under. It's always going to be that way in scrambles. We play just to have fun, drink and support a worthy cause. 

[Kor.A.Door]

Generally if but play I n a scramble event, it's for the charity that sponsors the event, we always try to shoot a low score and sometime we win, but that's not what they are about, wounded warrior, cancer research, leukemia research, diabetes, these are the reason I play in the outings, it's a way to donate money to worthy organizations and get to play golf and have fun while doing it, are they ideal, no, but I go in to have fun with my friends, brothers, whoever I golf with. I play with 3 other guys who are also around 6-7 hcp's and we will routinely shoot scores in the mid 50's in a scramble. It's all about the putting.

[Jmikecpa]

If I believed that everyone was going to cheat, then when I show up, I might as well stand in the parking lot and throw my money in the air. That isn't the charity I was supporting.

The only way four 13's beat four guys off scratch or better is to cheat, plain and simple. I play a lot of scrambles for charities I support through my company and our normal group is me off a +1, a 2, a 3.4 and a 5.7. We lose a lot more than we win, just a fact of life. I play to support the charity and have a day out of the office.

 

Heck I played one last year at a club I play several times a year with my buddy that has been a member there for a decade. Hit my tee shot on the long drive hole that carried a bunker in the left center of the fairway and ran out another 40 yards. My buddy said in all the rounds he has played there it was the first time he had seen a ball carry the trap from the back tees. The guy that won the long drive was a 60 something year old in the group behind me that was 70 yards behind my tee shot. He needed the ego boost more than me I guess.

 

 

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[sp0rtsfan86]

The question is are the bigger issues with scrambles people writing down a false score or is it the handicap sandbagging?

 

Last year I played in 8 or so. 4 I thought we had no shot at, with 2-3 fighting for third place. The only one we dominated was with me bombing the ball 250 down the middle, a 3 handicap stuffing irons, and all of us hitting at least a 5 footer. A 20 handicapper was there just enjoying another tournament and maybe added a putt or two.

 

The group that tied us had 3 guys who were under 5 handicaps or better. Even on a great day for us we still weren't able to beat them.

[dru_]

Got ya. My league is net scores but it's very caefully policed right down to the rules of golf. You get caught cheating you get one warning, get caught again and you're gone. The core of the league has been the same for 15 years so everyone has a sense of how each other plays. League officers make it a point to play with new people the first year. Outscoring is modified stableford and we are delighted by handicap. I like the league.

 

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This is basically the group I play with.  A weekly points game. each half year, we reset the points. ( 36 - HC ) are your points to gain. Stableford scoring. Don't make your points you go down the next week, finish in the top 3 you go up for the next week. We cap how much you can move per week and put a limit on how low you can go. It's pretty rare for anyone to win on a consistent basis, and it works really well for a group with everything from 5's to 28's. 

[~^~]

It boils down to: 1. You like the golf, 2. You like your group, 3. You like the sponsors, 4. You like the day off work.

 

I admire your positivity. Personally, i like the nature. I enjoy being out of the air conditioning, seeing and hearing the birds, fish and animals. I just can't get into that if there's a lot of people around. To each his own. Nothing wrong with that. Cheers.