Bayou'd

[revkev]

As many of you know I've been a member at a Country Club for the past year. The course is very difficult and at times the new greens have been biderline unfair, certainly beyond my ability to get the ball close to some pins and I currently have a 4.8 index.

 

After hitting my approach on 4 and watching a perfectly struck approach from 184 catch the wrong side of a ridge roll up and down a tier so that a 20 footer turned into 65 feet up and down a 3 foot bump I came up with this new term Bayou'd. I get to apply it later in the round when my 53 hit 1 foot from the pin and sucked 25 straight side ways down a ridge into a trap.

 

The term is Bayou'd. Its where you hit a well struck great looking shot that ends up dead because of the difficulty of the course.

 

Does your course have shots where you might be Bayou'd? It can happen on 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 at my course. Depending on wind direction and course conditions it can be very hard to even put the ball on the right part of the green.

 

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[Kenny B]

Rev, I remember one hole on your front nine; might have been #4 that had an upper tier in the back with a drop to a lower level that ran diagonal across the green.  I remember my ball didn't stay up on the top where the pin was located.

 

As I wrote is my "How'd You Play" post yesterday with the pic on my #3 hole, I was Bayou'd on a great looking second shot that resulted in a DB.

[jaskanski]

I'm hearing you revkev, but there is a distinct difference between a perfectly struck shot and the right shot. 

For instance, a perfectly struck 145 yard 9-iron isn't going to be of much use on 154 yard hole over water.

Therefore the right shot, trajectory, carry and shape must be taken into account before executing the stroke. This is what a lot of pros call "visualisation". They "see" the shot and how it will react after landing.

Harder courses are a great way to get the brain to think of better or more effective ways to move the ball around the course. Thinking from the green back to the tee often helps in this regard.

Good work on the 4.8 index though - keep on plugging away and keep using your imagination - even on putts!

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Actually, as hard as my course is (TPC Valley), I could only come up with 3 holes.  Our two short par 4's where slightly offline, short or long approaches can have a 1 or 2 stroke penal effect and the par 5 16th approach.  Other than that, being a typical Dye course, good shots are usually rewarded.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Actually, as hard as my course is (TPC Valley), I could only come up with 3 holes.  Our two short par 4's where slightly offline, short or long approaches can have a 1 or 2 stroke penal effect and the par 5 16th approach.  Other than that, being a typical Dye course, good shots are usually rewarded.

[jaxbeachpackerfan]

I'm hearing you revkev, but there is a distinct difference between a perfectly struck shot and the right shot. 

For instance, a perfectly struck 145 yard 9-iron isn't going to be of much use on 154 yard hole over water.

Therefore the right shot, trajectory, carry and shape must be taken into account before executing the stroke. This is what a lot of pros call "visualisation". They "see" the shot and how it will react after landing.

Harder courses are a great way to get the brain to think of better or more effective ways to move the ball around the course. Thinking from the green back to the tee often helps in this regard.

Good work on the 4.8 index though - keep on plugging away and keep using your imagination - even on putts!

Actually, I think Rev was talking about right shots almost perfectly struck that end up less than optimal because only an almost perfect shot would do.  

[fozcycle]

At Pebble Creek, where the pins are moved daily, a front pin on 3, 8, 11, 12, 15 & 18 can take a perfectly struck approach shot and turn a birdie into a bogey with a 3 putt.

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

Springfield golf club fort mill SC,

Depending upon wind direction and location of pins, there are some one that aren't an issue, but if they were to put he pins in the toughest spots for each hole it would be, 1,2,3,5,7,8,9,11,13,14,15,17,18. There are a few holes where the pins don't matter, the holes are just there, it doesn't mean they aren't difficult, but those few greens don't have sucker pins areas where they can get you, unless they put the pin in areas where it is unplayable. Otherwise referred to as what in the world were they thinking when they placed that pin.

[Jmikecpa]

The greens at my club are from the original design and over 100 years old. We have a lot of subtle breaks and false fronts that can make you look foolish. Out of the 18 greens we have one that would be considered fairly flat so I am going with 17 of 18.

 

 

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[revkev]

Actually, I think Rev was talking about right shots almost perfectly struck that end up less than optimal because only an almost perfect shot would do.

Exactly this!

 

I think the greens will mature and soften a bit.

 

The hole that Kenny got Bayou'd on is a classic. Its 410 from the tee that I typically play but can be stretched to 470. OB left, trees right but everything kicks left so the fairway isn't that hard to hit. Most players will have between 190-160. There's a huge bunker that guards the front left of the two tiered green and two grass bunkers right. There is also a spine right down the middle of the green so that the ball repells hard left or right from the center often off the green even when you hit a very good shot. If it repells left you go down an embankment into bushes. That's what happened to Kenny.

 

The only pin you have a chance at on that hole is back but be careful because of it goes too far you're down another embankment into some more bushes.

 

We've all watched the guys on tour get chewed up by 10 at Riviera. We have a couple of greens like that where it takes tour level shot making to keep it on the green. Not even my buddy who made it to match play in the US AM can hold the back part of 6 when it's down wind and trust me He can spin his wedges.

 

Of course that will all change after today so I'm anxious to see how it plays she it's softer.

 

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[Kenny B]

Exactly this!

 

I think the greens will mature and soften a bit.

 

The hole that Kenny got Bayou'd on is a classic. Its 410 from the tee that I typically play but can be stretched to 470. OB left, trees right but everything kicks left so the fairway isn't that hard to hit. Most players will have between 190-160. There's a huge bunker that guards the front left of the two tiered green and two grass bunkers right. There is also a spine right down the middle of the green so that the ball repells hard left or right from the center often off the green even when you hit a very good shot. If it repells left you go down an embankment into bushes. That's what happened to Kenny.

 

The only pin you have a chance at on that hole is back but be careful because of it goes too far you're down another embankment into some more bushes.

 

We've all watched the guys on tour get chewed up by 10 at Riviera. We have a couple of greens like that where it takes tour level shot making to keep it on the green. Not even my buddy who made it to match play in the US AM can hold the back part of 6 when it's down wind and trust me He can spin his wedges.

 

Of course that will all change after today so I'm anxious to see how it plays she it's softer.

 

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BTW, that wasn't the only hole at your club that I got Bayou'd!!   

[Chris O.]

It's not my home course but a course I get to play every now and again, Entrada at Snow Canyon CC, has some nasty greens on it. There aren't a whole lot of tiered greens but the greens have multiple sections to them. If you leave yourself in the wrong spot you're screwed. One round I can remember I hit 14 greens and had 42 putts. I just could not find the right spot on the green that day. The members there complain if they let the greens get too quick because on some of the holes if you're out of position on the green, anything inside 10 feet is a good leave.

 

 

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[revkev]

The greens at my club are from the original design and over 100 years old. We have a lot of subtle breaks and false fronts that can make you look foolish. Out of the 18 greens we have one that would be considered fairly flat so I am going with 17 of 18.

 

 

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This can be a huge issue because the architect did not envision greens running at 11 or 12. He designed them for 8.

 

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[chershey]

That course sounds crazy but I bet makes other courses seem easy. I've played quite a few holes like those in my golfing life. It's really taught me how to manage my misses with thoughts like, "I'm going to play a club shorter and have either a chip or putt uphill because missing past the hole means death." I may still end up with a bogey using that method but I'm almost guaranteed it if I leave my miss in the wrong place.

[PlaidJacket]

Some of you guys are describing (Rev) some very difficult greens at your clubs. I'm reading this and saying to myself.... no thanks. Granted, I like a challenge otherwise I wouldn't play this game. However, I've played too many courses that had great layouts and were fun/challenging until you reached the greens. Then for some reason the architect decided to punish everyone. I don't enjoy playing courses that require a level of precision like a Tour Pro. I'm not one. My experience with tricked-out greens is that it really just spoils the round, slows play, and diminishes the overall enjoyment. Going even further I'll say it's poor design. The majority of courses will never see a PGA event played on them. They were supposed to have been built for amateurs/club members/vacationers, etc. On the flip side as a 7 handicapper; I don't enjoy playing overly easy courses either. They're boring. A good experienced architect knows his target audience. Amateurs. If you travel to or play a recognized PGA Tour course (expl.: Pinehurst #2, Oakmont, Pebble, etc.) you should expect a most difficult test. Tee to green. It's fun to see how your game stacks-up to how the Pros play it. However, back at home I want to get back to reality and play my game and have fun doing it. That requires a course with a good challenging layout and fair greens to putt on.

[MGoBlue100]

My boss lives on a PB Dye designed course.  Lots of plateau greens, no where to bail out.  Many, many "good" shots end up 50 yards off greens with seemingly impossible recovery shots looming.

 

Can't understand how a family that has made all of their living off golf can hate golfers as much as the Dyes' do.

[Jmikecpa]

This can be a huge issue because the architect did not envision greens running at 11 or 12. He designed them for 8.

 

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Hit the nail on the head there.  The course may not be the longest but when the rough is up at 6 inches and the greens are rolling at 12.5 it is just brutal.  Throw in the constant 20mph wind and it is a recipe for a big number.  That being said I love the challenge of playing there.

[DaveP043]

As many of you know I've been a member at a Country Club for the past year. The course is very difficult and at times the new greens have been biderline unfair, certainly beyond my ability to get the ball close to some pins and I currently have a 4.8 index.

 

After hitting my approach on 4 and watching a perfectly struck approach from 184 catch the wrong side of a ridge roll up and down a tier so that a 20 footer turned into 65 feet up and down a 3 foot bump I came up with this new term Bayou'd. I get to apply it later in the round when my 53 hit 1 foot from the pin and sucked 25 straight side ways down a ridge into a trap.

 

The term is Bayou'd. Its where you hit a well struck great looking shot that ends up dead because of the difficulty of the course.

 

 

We call that being Stoneleigh'ed here at Stoneleigh GC.  We have a number of short but steep slopes immediately adjacent to several fairways, so a shot that misses the short stuff by 4 feet can leave you in rough with the ball 18 inches above or below your feet.  We also have at least 5 greens with severe terracing, leave it on the wrong side and you're hoping to take only 3 putts.  But really, what fun is golf without the occasional taste of completely unfair adversity?

[Kenny B]

If you are ever in Albuquerque, NM be sure to play Paa-Ko Ridge on the back side of Sandia Peak.  Another Dye course, not Pete this time but Ken.  Here is a link to their photo tour of the course.

 

http://paakoridge.com/photo-tour/

 

Check out Hole #4, a par 3 named Dye-Abolical.  The first time I played this course, I SIX-putted this green!!!!  I didn't know it at the time of course, but I had just been Bayou'd.

[~^~]

Hey Kev, what happened to hit the fairway, keep it below the hole, 2-putt and move on? 😃

Just kidding! Our greens were like wet sponges for years. Any shot would hold the green. However, they were chewed up and slow. Three years ago we got a new golf course greenskeeper. He renovated the greens, injecting layer of sand, new grass, more aeration, fertilizer, insecticide, etc. Our greens are now firm and fast, relatively speaking. Shots which formerly held now bounce over, off the side or to another tier. Thinking about it, the greens which slope right to left are impossible for me to hold, with my right to left standard shape. Just goes to show, one needs to learn to hit shaped shots to hold certain greens.

[Kor.A.Door]

The greens at our club roll to about 12, sometimes 13 (ultra dwarf mini verde Bermuda), we also have tiered or sectioned greens, if you find yourself on the incorrect section of the green it is sometimes a good thing to 3 putt. Also because of the elephant backs or camel humps that also accompany these greens, and there are many shots that look really good flying to the green, only to see it bounce and roll and roll and roll and roll until it disappears off the back down a hill or you miss the front by 6 inches and find yourself with a 30 yard straight up the hill pitch shot with the grain of the Bermuda straight into you, a chunky monkey waiting to happen. Sometimes the best shot isn't one that is perfect, sometimes you just have to try to put the ball 30 feet away on the correct level or section a try to 2 putt. If you find yourself with a downhill put, never ever try to make it, if it goes in great, but it is lag lag lag when you are coming downhill. Sounds like a fun day of golf.

[PlaidJacket]

Kenny, I've played Paa-Ko a few times. Love the course. The original 18 anyway. Not a big fan of the other 9. But over all it's a great course. I'll probably be playing it again in September.

[Kenny B]

Kenny, I've played Paa-Ko a few times. Love the course. The original 18 anyway. Not a big fan of the other 9. But over all it's a great course. I'll probably be playing it again in September.

Last time I was there, the other 9 was just put in and not ready for play.  It's a great course.

[revkev]

We call that being Stoneleigh'ed here at Stoneleigh GC. We have a number of short but steep slopes immediately adjacent to several fairways, so a shot that misses the short stuff by 4 feet can leave you in rough with the ball 18 inches above or below your feet. We also have at least 5 greens with severe terracing, leave it on the wrong side and you're hoping to take only 3 putts. But really, what fun is golf without the occasional taste of completely unfair adversity?

Tests the meddle!

 

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[revkev]

Hey Kev, what happened to hit the fairway, keep it below the hole, 2-putt and move on? 😃

Just kidding! Our greens were like wet sponges for years. Any shot would hold the green. However, they were chewed up and slow. Three years ago we got a new golf course greenskeeper. He renovated the greens, injecting layer of sand, new grass, more aeration, fertilizer, insecticide, etc. Our greens are now firm and fast, relatively speaking. Shots which formerly held now bounce over, off the side or to another tier. Thinking about it, the greens which slope right to left are impossible for me to hold, with my right to left standard shape. Just goes to show, one needs to learn to hit shaped shots to hold certain greens.

Touche! The difference is we aren't playing an open. I don't dislike it either. Honestly I thought it was cool that I hit 3 well planned and executed shots on 13 only to make bogey the other day. It makes my 78 look way better than it reads. I've been kicking butt elsewhere. I'd love the courses that jmike and Dave are describing.

 

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[~^~]

Touche! The difference is we aren't playing an open. I don't dislike it either. Honestly I thought it was cool that I hit 3 well planned and executed shots on 13 only to make bogey the other day. It makes my 78 look way better than it reads. I've been kicking butt elsewhere. I'd love the courses that jmike and Dave are describing.

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So you executed your strategy, and still made bogey. Guess Bobby Jones was right. That 5 1/2 inches between the ears can be treacherous!🤔

[revkev]

I executed my strategy to the best of my ability. For some people, most people, on some holes bogey is an acceptable score. That hole is the number 4 handicap hole. Given my handicap 4 will not kill me there.

 

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[revkev]

I'm sorry 5 will not kill me.

 

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[~^~]

I'm sorry 5 will not kill me.

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No argument. Bayou is tough. Congrats on your 78.

[revkev]

No argument. Bayou is tough. Congrats on your 78.

It was also from the blue tees. My 4.8 index gets my 7 strokes from there.

 

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