MOI question - what length do you start with?

[GolfSpyC]

I get everything about an MOI build, but I'm getting conflicting information on which club to start with - 

 

Just to keep things easy, let's imagine you're building a set for someone who plays standard length irons - i.e. 38" five iron - Is this where you start the 3/8 progression??

[jaskanski]

You start with what club feels best when you swing - the whole point of MOI matching. However, this leads to other complications through the set...

Lets say for argument your favourite iron is #6 at D2 swingweight. Progressively, the swingweight difference between clubs will be 0.65 sw points per half inch betwen clubs, meaning your #3 iron will end up at D0 and your pw will be D4 - great for making them 'feel' the same but not so great for making the set play the same in terms of frequency and flex. 

So you have to decide on whether you want the set to feel constant or play with a predictable slope.

IMO, this is where MOI matching is not such a good thing in iron sets for better players with good technique - however MOI can have some benefits for higher handicap players in helping them achieve a better strike pattern. For fitters, it is imperative to match the MOI to swing tendencies for a perfect fit, rather than just finding the single club that feels the best to swing - it has to be the club that performs best too.

Certainly worth experimenting at home with quick and dirty swingweight adjustment with lead tape and the like, but for precision building a proper MOI auditor or speed match machine is a must.

[PlaidJacket]

Take a trip over to Tom Wishon's website and do a search on MOI.

[GolfSpyC]

Take a trip over to Tom Wishon's website and do a search on MOI.

Took the trip. Did some searching and got some conflicting information. 

[GolfSpyC]

You start with what club feels best when you swing - the whole point of MOI matching. However, this leads to other complications through the set...

Lets say for argument your favourite iron is #6 at D2 swingweight. Progressively, the swingweight difference between clubs will be 0.65 sw points per half inch betwen clubs, meaning your #3 iron will end up at D0 and your pw will be D4 - great for making them 'feel' the same but not so great for making the set play the same in terms of frequency and flex. 

So you have to decide on whether you want the set to feel constant or play with a predictable slope.

IMO, this is where MOI matching is not such a good thing in iron sets for better players with good technique - however MOI can have some benefits for higher handicap players in helping them achieve a better strike pattern. For fitters, it is imperative to match the MOI to swing tendencies for a perfect fit, rather than just finding the single club that feels the best to swing - it has to be the club that performs best too.

Certainly worth experimenting at home with quick and dirty swingweight adjustment with lead tape and the like, but for precision building a proper MOI auditor or speed match machine is a must.

 

 

Thanks for the reply and the help. Prior to my current set, I've played my irons at +.25" - so a finished length of 38.25 on my 5 iron - 

 

Let's say you had someone come in for a new set of irons, but they didn't currently own a set - therefore there isn't a  club they feel best about - Which club then becomes the standard length one on which you base the rest of the set?

[jaskanski]

Thanks for the reply and the help. Prior to my current set, I've played my irons at +.25" - so a finished length of 38.25 on my 5 iron - 

 

Let's say you had someone come in for a new set of irons, but they didn't currently own a set - therefore there isn't a  club they feel best about - Which club then becomes the standard length one on which you base the rest of the set?

 

This is where you refer back to a face to face consultation with your fitter. Regardless of initial MOI, it is still not a replacement for a correctly fitted set - i.e. the length, weight, flex, loft, lie etc of the club has to be correct before any MOI matching can take place. Once you have a fitted set of raw measurements, the swing weight can be fine tuned on a particular club to find the best feel. It's usually easier with a club like a  7 iron or longer to achieve this, depending on what resources the fitter has, the swing weight can be adjusted without altering any of the other parameters (like shaft flex for instance)- once you have a preference from the customer - and the performance criteria has been met (i.e. ball flight height, direction and spin) then you can begin to match the rest of the set based on that particular club.

[PlaidJacket]

Jaskanski's comment reminds me of my iron fitting back in august 2014. I recall my fitter adding a small amount of lead tape to a 6i we were working with. I believe he placed it on or around the hosel.  He'd have me hit a few balls, measure some results, and then add or take away some lead. We eventually got the feel part down where I liked it. My shot patterns were good too. A little later I asked him about what we'd just done. He handed me a few little pieces of lead... they might have been like balls or something. Anyway, he remarked that's the amount of weight he'll add to my clubs. I was shocked that such a small amount of weight could feel so much different when I was swinging and hitting balls. That process alone was one of the most noticeable aspects of my fitting.

[Noodler]

I get everything about an MOI build, but I'm getting conflicting information on which club to start with - 

 

Just to keep things easy, let's imagine you're building a set for someone who plays standard length irons - i.e. 38" five iron - Is this where you start the 3/8 progression??

 

Pick your "pivot" club and go from there with the 3/8" increments.  I always use the #7 iron as the pivot and it is fit to the golfer in the standard manner (for length, lie, and ideal MOI).  Then the 8-9-PW will be slightly longer than standard and the 4-5-6 slightly shorter than standard.  Typically this means that you will be adding more tip weight to the longer clubs and very little to none to the shorter irons (I always plan the build to avoid any grinding to reduce head weight, but I have drilled out hosels for a couple grams if necessary).

[Noodler]

You start with what club feels best when you swing - the whole point of MOI matching. However, this leads to other complications through the set...

Lets say for argument your favourite iron is #6 at D2 swingweight. Progressively, the swingweight difference between clubs will be 0.65 sw points per half inch betwen clubs, meaning your #3 iron will end up at D0 and your pw will be D4 - great for making them 'feel' the same but not so great for making the set play the same in terms of frequency and flex. 

So you have to decide on whether you want the set to feel constant or play with a predictable slope.

IMO, this is where MOI matching is not such a good thing in iron sets for better players with good technique - however MOI can have some benefits for higher handicap players in helping them achieve a better strike pattern. For fitters, it is imperative to match the MOI to swing tendencies for a perfect fit, rather than just finding the single club that feels the best to swing - it has to be the club that performs best too.

Certainly worth experimenting at home with quick and dirty swingweight adjustment with lead tape and the like, but for precision building a proper MOI auditor or speed match machine is a must.

 

Not sure where you're getting these ideas that MOI matching is not for better players.  You should really review the facts.

[jaskanski]

Not sure where you're getting these ideas that MOI matching is not for better players.  You should really review the facts.

 

Thank you. I'm sure you'll review these 'facts' to everyone in due course.

[Noodler]

Thank you. I'm sure you'll review these 'facts' to everyone in due course.

 

You're welcome to come on over to the Wishon forum and debate this issue with Tom when you're ready. 

[jaskanski]

You're welcome to come on over to the Wishon forum and debate this issue with Tom when you're ready. 

 

Tom and I have had many discussions in the past and we're at least on the same page when it comes to fitting. He revolutionised some of the fitting process and methodology for sure.

But if you ask Tom, I'm sure he would be the first to agree that MOI matching is not for everyone - and for tour players, virtually non-existent.

That is not to say MOI matching is worthless for some - indeed if you read the posts above you will see the contrary. But if you have been in the business long enough, you see trends and tendencies throughout the player spectrum. MOI matching is one that has yet to find favour with the majority of lower index and professional golfers - fact. 

However, Tom has also shown evidence for a sample of 500 recreational golfers that tried MOI matched sets, only 1 preferred constant swing weight sets. Interesting stuff - especially when you consider the average recreational handicap is also above 18 - another fact.