What equipment are you thinking about?

[chisag]

57 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 The EvnRoll face is designed for speed control like the Bobby Grace HSM insert. As for "roll technology" everything I read; other than marketing, is that it is loft and attack angle that create the forward roll not the face grooves. 

 

... We just have a difference of opinion. Again.   I understand completely what Evnroll's insert is supposed to accomplish. What it doesn't address is if the grooves have any angle for top spin. I am assuming not since it isn't mentioned in anything I have read but it never hurts to ask the source for confirmation. That said, in my own experience, roll technology makes a difference for me and I have putted better using putters that employ it. I was won over by a demonstration by a Nickent Tour heel shafted mallet with a roll technology insert and with a high speed camera you could see it start rolling sooner. In the end it works for me and that is all that matters. I love my Bobby Grace putter for the roll it produces and this is from his website:

 

"An intense two-year period of research and development followed, which resulted in an exponential improvement in the "HSM" radial face insert that allowed for early roll in addition to distance correction".

 

. 

 

... My putters with roll technology and I have putted very well with all of them. Nike B1/07 ... Bobby Grace 6330 ... Nickent Tour:





 

[cnosil]

10 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... We just have a difference of opinion. Again.  
That said, in my own experience, roll technology makes a difference for me and I have putted better using putters that employ it. I was won over by a demonstration by a Nickent Tour heel shafted mallet with a roll technology insert and with a high speed camera you could see it start rolling sooner. In the end it works for me and that is all that matters. I love my Bobby Grace putter for the roll it produces and this is from his website:

"An intense two-year period of research and development followed, which resulted in an exponential improvement in the "HSM" radial face insert that allowed for early roll in addition to distance correction".

... My putters with roll technology and I have putted very well with all of them. Nike B1/07 ... Bobby Grace 6330 ... Nickent Tour:



 

Yep, we will disagree on this but that is okay.   I don’t disagree that those putters feel best for you or that you putt well with them.  The putter currently in my bag even has the TM pure roll technology 

I can find other manufacturer claims and scientific studies that support my position too.  Providing for completeness for those who want to look deeper

https://cureputters.com/blogs/news/skid-roll-launch-and-loft-myths-the-plain-truth

https://cyberleninka.org/article/n/292911

Abstract: We present the results of a theoretical and experimental study into the influence of various putter head design features on the rotational dynamics of the ball following putter impact. It is found that ball launch conditions can be tailored by designing the putter head with the appropriate combinations of face loft, center of gravity and moment of inertia. Face treatments, such as inserts and grooves, effect the coefficient of restitution and friction coefficient at the contact point and thus provide additional design parameters to control the launch conditions of a putt. Experiments demonstrate that inserts and grooves can modulate the coefficient of restitution of the impact, but not in a manner that gets the ball rolling earlier for fixed length putts.

 A reference to a study that shows loft is what influences ball roll: https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=324504579245553&id=111349473894399&m_entstream_source=permalink

Puttlab assessment: https://www.mygolfinstructor.com/instruction/putting/creating-true-roll-on-your-putts/

I’ll even throw in some Geoff Mangum; who delves really deep into the science behind putting and putters.  http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/02/geoff-mangum-on-skid-roll.html
 

 

[russtopherb]

Still thinking about putting a 4w back in the bag. I had two holes yesterday with tight fairways that I knew I really shouldn't be pulling driver on, but I did anyways because my HyWood was probably going to put me too close to bunkers or water. One situation worked out OK, and the other... well, let's say it didn't. I have 13 clubs in the bag right now so I don't need to remove anything if I add one back in.

[chisag]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

I can find other manufacturer claims and scientific studies that support my position too.  Providing for completeness for those who want to look deeper

 

...  Thanks! I have a link to a putter co with roll technology proclaiming its benefits. You have a link to a putter co without roll technology discounting its benefits. Always seems to be conflicting information when it comes to the more complicated equipment technology. We both agree that the proper loft is one of the most important elements.

... When Kevin Weeks examined my putting the two things I took away as the most important were:

1. Putts rolling at a speed that would end up 18" past the hole gives you the best chance at making putts on most mid to slower muni greens which can have more surface irregularities and sometimes the "volcano effect" in the afternoon from either an improperly cut hole or many players stepping right next to the whole al day long. BUT, if you are mentally wired to die the putt in the hole that shouldn't be ignored as you will have putts drop in from the high side that would not with 18" of past the hole speed and it works better on fast and true greens. He said my distance was very consistent when dying the ball in the hole but inconsistent when trying to roll past the hole so I shouldn't change. 

2. Through trial and error I developed a slight forward press and Kevin suggested that was my way of getting the proper loft for a better roll. I didn't remember when I started with a slight forward press and at that time didn't really know I was doing it. 

[ED13]

Last fall I got fitted for wedges at TXG.  By far the best wedges for me were the Taylormade MG3's in 50-54-58.  Also got a Vokey 60 degree bent to 62.

Do not currently have any use for a new club, apparel, shoes or even golf gloves.  I have some gift cards which will be more than enough to purchase the same 3 MG3's from Golftown.  Who knows what will be available in the future and these work so well for me. 

[chisag]

16 hours ago, cnosil said:

The EvnRoll face is designed for speed control like the Bobby Grace HSM insert.   The grooves are wider apart toward the center to reduce the amount of face contact to slow down ball speeds and they get narrower as you move outwards to increase ball speed.   They are also supposed to have the direction control which is created by the cut inside the grooves of the putter to operate like gear effect.   As for "roll technology" everything I read; other than marketing, is that it is loft and attack angle that create the forward roll not the face grooves. 

 

... Just got this response from Evnroll:


Hi Sam,

Thanks for reaching out and your interest in Evnroll Putters. The groove technology on our putters does increase friction between face and ball at impact increasing top spin similar to the Taylormades. The difference is the shape of our groove. It increases the consistency of ball speeds across the hitting area with variable land mass (parabolically shaped grooves - v shape)

Let us know if you have any other questions

 

 

[Javs]

4 hours ago, chisag said:

 

...  Thanks! I have a link to a putter co with roll technology proclaiming its benefits. You have a link to a putter co without roll technology discounting its benefits. Always seems to be conflicting information when it comes to the more complicated equipment technology. We both agree that the proper loft is one of the most important elements.

... When Kevin Weeks examined my putting the two things I took away as the most important were:

1. Putts rolling at a speed that would end up 18" past the hole gives you the best chance at making putts on most mid to slower muni greens which can have more surface irregularities and sometimes the "volcano effect" in the afternoon from either an improperly cut hole or many players stepping right next to the whole al day long. BUT, if you are mentally wired to die the putt in the hole that shouldn't be ignored as you will have putts drop in from the high side that would not with 18" of past the hole speed and it works better on fast and true greens. He said my distance was very consistent when dying the ball in the hole but inconsistent when trying to roll past the hole so I shouldn't change. 

2. Through trial and error I developed a slight forward press and Kevin suggested that was my way of getting the proper loft for a better roll. I didn't remember when I started with a slight forward press and at that time didn't really know I was doing it. 

I went to a Dave Pelz short game course years ago. My wife bought it as a birthday gift. Found out my putter was too long and upright. He also promoted having you roll it for 18 inches past the hole. I liked his putting information and some of his wedge work. Sounds like some similar information that Kevin Weeks is suggesting.

Edited June 19 by Javs

[Ben Joest]

Anybody gaming Paradym fairway woods? Any strong opinions for or against?

[chisag]

5 hours ago, Javs said:

I went to a Dave Pelz short game course years ago. My wife bought it as a birthday gift. Found out my putter was too long and upright. He also promoted having you roll it for 18 inches past the hole. I liked his putting information and some of his wedge work. Sounds like some similar information that Kevin Weeks is suggesting.

 

... I completely agree 18" past the hole works best all things considered. I just can't do it with any success. For me it would be like throwing a pass to a receiver 5yds beyond where I think it should go, or aiming a foot past the rim on a 3 pointer. I am just very target oriented and trying to putt longer than the target throws my internal radar completely out of whack. 

[Preeway]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I completely agree 18" past the hole works best all things considered. I just can't do it with any success. For me it would be like throwing a pass to a receiver 5yds beyond where I think it should go, or aiming a foot past the rim on a 3 pointer. I am just very target oriented and trying to putt longer than the target throws my internal radar completely out of whack. 

It isn’t true that you want to have every putt go past the cup. It really does depend on the break and uphill vs. downhill. Or even on lag putts where my goal is to just be close enough to 2 putt. The only time I’m really thinking about finishing past the cup is when I’m inside 6 feet, if it isn’t downhill. 

[Javs]

42 minutes ago, Preeway said:

It isn’t true that you want to have every putt go past the cup. It really does depend on the break and uphill vs. downhill. Or even on lag putts where my goal is to just be close enough to 2 putt. The only time I’m really thinking about finishing past the cup is when I’m inside 6 feet, if it isn’t downhill. 

If you’re lagging then you aren’t really trying to make it. I get your point. We were only sharing what information Pelz and Weeks put out in the studies and science they used. They assume you’re trying to make the putt. 

[cnosil]

On 6/15/2023 at 10:17 AM, Javs said:

Has anyone tried the new PXG Gen 6 Hybrids? 

https://pluggedingolf.com/pxg-0311-gen6-hybrid-review/
 

 

MGS started hybrid testing yesterday and we started talking about the PXG hybrids.  I tried one of the gen 6 and I saw straight ball flight and higher spin than I was getting with some of the other hybrids.   Maybe a touch shorter than some but definitely a solid club.  The one I hit was stock and not adjusted to my swing and probably wouldn’t be one I would pick off the shelf: x stiff and heavy 95 gram shaft.  

[Javs]

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

MGS started hybrid testing yesterday and we started talking about the PXG hybrids.  I tried one of the gen 6 and I saw straight ball flight and higher spin than I was getting with some of the other hybrids.   Maybe a touch shorter than some but definitely a solid club.  The one I hit was stock and not adjusted to my swing and probably wouldn’t be one I would pick off the shelf: x stiff and heavy 95 gram shaft.  

Thank you for the feedback!

[chisag]

3 hours ago, Preeway said:

It isn’t true that you want to have every putt go past the cup. It really does depend on the break and uphill vs. downhill. Or even on lag putts where my goal is to just be close enough to 2 putt. The only time I’m really thinking about finishing past the cup is when I’m inside 6 feet, if it isn’t downhill. 

 

... You are preachin' to the choir  and as I said I am a die in the hole putter* so 18" past doesn't apply to me. I have probably had an equal amount of putts fall in the side as I have slide off the cup or bounce away that would have kept its line and fallen with more speed. The point of a putt that finishes 18" past the hole is it gives your putt the best chance of holding its line. Greens are mostly imperfect and a very slow rolling ball will be effected by the bumps, ball marks, sand, stones from bunkers and the raised area around the sides of the cup late in the day. Tour greens or CC rolling at 12-13 that are immaculately maintained are an exception. It is about speed not distance and I guess a better way to say the same thing is you want your putt to have enough speed that if it misses, it will roll 12-18" past the cup. 

... Played yesterday and unfortunately had several holes, but 2 in particular that were perched just on the downside of a severe slope/tier. I had to make the decision to lay up a couple birdie putts from 6 and 10 feet. My pard had a par putt of 7 feet and just barely rolled it to the hole and it just missed but barely turning over it didn't stop, picked up speed and rolled 15 feet past the hole. I was very careful from 6 feet and tried to stop the ball just short but it still trickled and would have been right beside him had it not fallen in the hole and honestly I was not trying to make it. So yea, we can come up with plenty of examples where 18" past isn't the correct play but by and large it has been proven over and over again that the correct speed to hold a putts line is about 18" past the hole. 

* I would add my father in law that was a really bad putter would all too often say to me when I came up just short "99% of putts that come up short don't go in, you have to roll it past the hole to have a chance". I had had enough and finally said to Richard against my ex's advice of just ignore him "Hey Dick I know you didn't go to college but 99% of putts that roll past the hole don't go in either" 

[StrokerAce]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:37 AM, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

have you tried an apex UW? i hated my 3 hybrid. love my 4w. was a good natural progression. I just hit it far

Tried the UW vs a 7w and ended up picking up a demo on sale for 150 at PGASS.

Thanks for the tip. This might be just what the doc ordered. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

3 minutes ago, StrokerAce said:

Tried the UW vs a 7w and ended up picking up a demo on sale for 150 at PGASS.

Thanks for the tip. This might be just what the doc ordered. 

good to hear! it was eye opening to me too. So much so I hope they make a 23 or 24* shortly that isn't tour issue. Hit it well!

[Ben Joest]

Need to demo them to be sure, but I am leaning towards the 13.5 degree 3 wood and the 18 degree 5 wood. 
 

They would be replacing a 15 degree 3 wood and 19 degree 3 hybrid. 
 

Beyond an assumed distance gain, I’m curious if these clubs will provide a tighter dispersion. The PXG 0211’s I’m currently gaming have been good to me, but in my quest to get to scratch, I need a little more than they can provide.

[Javs]

6 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

Need to demo them to be sure, but I am leaning towards the 13.5 degree 3 wood and the 18 degree 5 wood. 
 

They would be replacing a 15 degree 3 wood and 19 degree 3 hybrid. 
 

Beyond an assumed distance gain, I’m curious if these clubs will provide a tighter dispersion. The PXG 0211’s I’m currently gaming have been good to me, but in my quest to get to scratch, I need a little more than they can provide.

If you pull the trigger please give us your take. I would be very interested in hearing about these!

[Ben Joest]

11 minutes ago, Javs said:

If you pull the trigger please give us your take. I would be very interested in hearing about these!

I put a feeler out a few days ago, but didn’t get any response. So I may have to be the intrepid soul who crawls, so the rest of us may walk. I’m sure SWMBO will understand, it’s in the forum’s best interest…

[richk9holes]

53 minutes ago, Ben Joest said:

I put a feeler out a few days ago, but didn’t get any response. So I may have to be the intrepid soul who crawls, so the rest of us may walk. I’m sure SWMBO will understand, it’s in the forum’s best interest…

I'm sure if you man-splain the "greater good theory" to her it will go over swimmingly.