What/How Did You Practice Today?

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Maybe the relaxed frame of mind was what helped. 

... No doubt that always helps. The crazy part is how much the body wants to protect itself. After 2 back surgeries it seems to be of the opinion golf is something I should not be doing LOL. There certainly are days it is painful, and quite a few days where it hurts a little but after pre round stretching more often that not it feels pretty decent to start out and there is no reason to be tight. Walking always helps to keep loose and relaxed but the last several months have been riding in carts because of the heat as it would be reckless to walk in 105*+ temps. The breeze in the cart and riding quickly to some shade are musts. 

[THEZIPR23]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

... No doubt that always helps. The crazy part is how much the body wants to protect itself. After 2 back surgeries it seems to be of the opinion golf is something I should not be doing LOL. There certainly are days it is painful, and quite a few days where it hurts a little but after pre round stretching more often that not it feels pretty decent to start out and there is no reason to be tight. Walking always helps to keep loose and relaxed but the last several months have been riding in carts because of the heat as it would be reckless to walk in 105*+ temps. The breeze in the cart and riding quickly to some shade are musts. 

I have found with mine, the hard way of course, that I was unconsciously tensing up at impact waiting for the pain. Whether it hurts or not it was affecting every swing. Crazy what the mind will do, this occurred after playing probably 5 rounds where I shouldn't have. And has taken 6 months to fix. Just now getting to the point where I can swing "freely".

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I have found with mine, the hard way of course, that I was unconsciously tensing up at impact waiting for the pain. Whether it hurts or not it was affecting every swing. Crazy what the mind will do, this occurred after playing probably 5 rounds where I shouldn't have. And has taken 6 months to fix. Just now getting to the point where I can swing "freely".

 

... Exactly and sorry to hear you go though the same thing. I can be sitting in my recliner watching TV and realize I am tense and have to just let go of the tension. Funny that walking and playing seem to be the best scenario for me as I tire myself out so good for releasing tension and getting much needed exercise. At least that is my story and I am sticking to it LOL. But swinging a club, climbing into a cart and sitting while going over humps and bumps a person without spine problems would never even notice is just a bad combo because the body is on constant alert, tense and ready to lock itself down. I will be very happy when it gets back to sub 100's so I can start walking again.  

[sirchunksalot]

I think from doing Planemate protocols, specifically the resist, resist, relax, rotate I picked up a bad habit of not setting my wrists early in the backswing. It appears in the video from a DTL view that it doesn't happen until the top of the swing. 

Today I spent a bit of time both in the house and outside working on position A in Monte's video using the Divot Board to swing into. Results were mixed, I hit a few thin, some fat, a couple of whiffs, and an occasional good strike. I found getting the lead wrist flat was a bit of a challenge, I guess old habits die hard. 

I'm planning on working on this all week and hopefully taking it to the range on Saturday. I imagine it'll be ugly, but progress starts with the first step. 

[bens197]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... No doubt that always helps. The crazy part is how much the body wants to protect itself. After 2 back surgeries it seems to be of the opinion golf is something I should not be doing LOL. There certainly are days it is painful, and quite a few days where it hurts a little but after pre round stretching more often that not it feels pretty decent to start out and there is no reason to be tight. Walking always helps to keep loose and relaxed but the last several months have been riding in carts because of the heat as it would be reckless to walk in 105*+ temps. The breeze in the cart and riding quickly to some shade are musts. 

All said, I'm really glad you're navigating this back issue and playing regularly.  

[russtopherb]

38 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

I think from doing Planemate protocols, specifically the resist, resist, relax, rotate I picked up a bad habit of not setting my wrists early in the backswing. It appears in the video from a DTL view that it doesn't happen until the top of the swing. 

Today I spent a bit of time both in the house and outside working on position A in Monte's video using the Divot Board to swing into. Results were mixed, I hit a few thin, some fat, a couple of whiffs, and an occasional good strike. I found getting the lead wrist flat was a bit of a challenge, I guess old habits die hard. 

I'm planning on working on this all week and hopefully taking it to the range on Saturday. I imagine it'll be ugly, but progress starts with the first step. 

With the NTC, just getting to left arm parallel and setting the wrists, then focusing on cast B is something that's a lot like I had worked on when I took lessons a few years ago. Because doing that alone get a lot of people, including me, into a good backswing position with proper wrist set. One thing I personally have learned is that since I have a strong grip, trying for the totally flat wrist actually leaves me with a closed face. Feeling like I'm just going thumbs up at waist high is a lot more like a full backswing. 

[Kenny B]

On 7/18/2021 at 6:08 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

When we look at dtl your shoulders look way open compared to the hips, from face on it doesn’t look as bad, but what Monte talks about is a little difference is ok but Tony the extremes. The alignment stick closest to you should match your hips and shoulders. Here it’s parallel to target and and to the right of your body lines.

in your takeaway there’s no wrist set which is contributing to the inside takeaway. If you look at where your hips are at address and each of the pics from dtl there’s no change in depth. From face on we see almost a reverse pivot because of this and in the pic where your left heel is off the ground that was more of your picking it up than letting the hip rotation causing it to happen. Because of the lack of wrist set at the top of your swing your left wrist is cupped. You don’t do any of cast A so as you transition you don’t move the wrist into flexion(bowing the wrist) so your face is wide open at club parallel and into impact so you have to stall the hips and stand up to get the club square and therefore have no shaft lean and add a bunch of loft at impact.

Focus on drill one even at the range and hit balls from drill one position 

Great comments!  I saw the same things.  

@sirchunksalot I recommend watching the NTC video one section at a time, focusing on the moves Monte is emphasizing.  Repeat.  Watch each section over and over starting with the No-Turn Backswing.  Don't move on until you get in the position Monte shows.  You need to get the wrists set correctly.  To get rid of the inside move, do the Backswing A-drill.  Do it over and over; slo-mo... video yourself doing it.   You could hit balls from this backswing position, but I don't recommend it until after you complete the Backswing B-drill correctly... going from 7 to 8 o'clock.  That's the position you will be in later when you rotate to impact.  

Good luck!!  There are lots of jewels in the NTC video; I didn't see many of them until I watched it many times.  Don't rush it!!  As you said, making this big of a change will take time, so don't get discouraged in the short term.

[DStar]

I'm spending a bit of time on my short game at the moment.

Reviewing/testing the PuttOUT kit has made a big difference in my confidence in my stroke and I'm seeing big improvements in my putting scores - last round was 31 putts, normally around 36-38.

Also working on my short chips. Have a good sized lawn so throw the balls around the lawn and chip to a bucket at random places. Play the ball as it sits and trying to chip into the bucket to help improve my accuracy and distance control.

Gives me a chance to try different ball positions for higher/lower ball flight and I'm starting to get much better at landing the ball within a few inches of my targets. 

Seems to be helping so far, no duff chips in the last couple of rounds  

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by DStar

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Great comments!  I saw the same things.  

@sirchunksalot I recommend watching the NTC video one section at a time, focusing on the moves Monte is emphasizing.  Repeat.  Watch each section over and over starting with the No-Turn Backswing.  Don't move on until you get in the position Monte shows.  You need to get the wrists set correctly.  To get rid of the inside move, do the Backswing A-drill.  Do it over and over; slo-mo... video yourself doing it.   You could hit balls from this backswing position, but I don't recommend it until after you complete the Backswing B-drill correctly... going from 7 to 8 o'clock.  That's the position you will be in later when you rotate to impact.  

Good luck!!  There are lots of jewels in the NTC video; I didn't see many of them until I watched it many times.  Don't rush it!!  As you said, making this big of a change will take time, so don't get discouraged in the short term.

Actually hitting more balls from backswing A is what Monte recommends in the efficient swing series. He says that he and the pros spend 80% of their practice time hitting balls from left arm parallel. Also talks about how hitting balls from that position helps with learning to take yardage off shots. I don’t remember where he mentioned it but he’s also said if you can’t hit good shots from left arm parallel you can’t do it from a full swing

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Actually hitting more balls from backswing A is what Monte recommends in the efficient swing series. He says that he and the pros spend 80% of their practice time hitting balls from left arm parallel. Also talks about how hitting balls from that position helps with learning to take yardage off shots. I don’t remember where he mentioned it but he’s also said if you can’t hit good shots from left arm parallel you can’t do it from a full swing

Yes, it's the basic pitch shot which is fine if you want to practice that move.  When I did it, I had a difficult time moving on to the full swing from 8 o'clock.  That's why I said I would recommend hitting from backswing B.  Maybe that's why I am better at short game partial shots than I am at full shots.  It's also why I decided to get the PlaneMate to emphasize that move to 8 o'clock, and it's helped.

[GolfSpy BOS]

Jackson has golf camp this week for an hour each morning, which luckily for me means a bucket of balls each morning. 
 

I was very excited to hit my Epic Max LS with my Ventus now that the tip was changed out. (For those interested it plays 1/2 inch longer than the Cobra Tour Length due to the difference in tips, so this is right at 45 inches now).

BUT I did restrain myself and worked my way up to driver which was a good idea because I was pretty stiff this AM. 
I think the Ventus is going to be a great combination as I was stoking the ball today. This is at least 7-8 ball marks:

 

I’m not going to complain about that! 
I do have a Motore X F3 that should be here today To try as well, but it looks like the Ventus isn’t going down without a fight. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

52 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Yes, it's the basic pitch shot which is fine if you want to practice that move.  When I did it, I had a difficult time moving on to the full swing from 8 o'clock.  That's why I said I would recommend hitting from backswing B.  Maybe that's why I am better at short game partial shots than I am at full shots.  It's also why I decided to get the PlaneMate to emphasize that move to 8 o'clock, and it's helped.

It’s more than the basic pitch shot. It’s where any shot that needs to take distance off is typically hit from. If the body isn’t moving correctly from backswing A aka lead arm parallel then it’s not going to work properly at backswing B aka full swing. 
 

Hitting shots from both positions are important but moving on to backswing B before consistently hitting good shots from backswing A is going to delay progress.

Not that any of us are John Rahm or Tony Finau but they can have really good good games with a backswing A type swing

[bens197]

2 hours ago, B.Boston said:

Jackson has golf camp this week for an hour each morning, which luckily for me means a bucket of balls each morning. 
 

I was very excited to hit my Epic Max LS with my Ventus now that the tip was changed out. (For those interested it plays 1/2 inch longer than the Cobra Tour Length due to the difference in tips, so this is right at 45 inches now).

BUT I did restrain myself and worked my way up to driver which was a good idea because I was pretty stiff this AM. 
I think the Ventus is going to be a great combination as I was stoking the ball today. This is at least 7-8 ball marks:

 

I’m not going to complain about that! 
I do have a Motore X F3 that should be here today To try as well, but it looks like the Ventus isn’t going down without a fight. 

Bombs?

[GolfSpy BOS]

6 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Bombs?

Dirty, filthy bombs.  Phil would be proud.  

 

[bens197]

2 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Dirty, filthy bombs.  Phil would be proud.  

 

Gorgeous.  

[ejgaudette]

13 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Dirty, filthy bombs.  Phil would be proud.  

 

I mean I guess that's nice if you into that sort of thing. 

[russtopherb]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not that any of us are John Rahm or Tony Finau but they can have really good good games with a backswing A type swing

I noted above about how for me, feel isn't real - when I think I'm swinging with backswing A, my hands are actually almost at shoulder height and I hit consistent, pretty straight shots with irons & wedges. Just focusing on that helped me a lot. When I was in lessons, I was told to feel like my hands didn't pass my thigh and I was a little past left arm parallel. Our body perception can be weird sometimes. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I noted above about how for me, feel isn't real - when I think I'm swinging with backswing A, my hands are actually almost at shoulder height and I hit consistent, pretty straight shots with irons & wedges. Just focusing on that helped me a lot. When I was in lessons, I was told to feel like my hands didn't pass my thigh and I was a little past left arm parallel. Our body perception can be weird sometimes. 

That goes for pretty much every golfer. What we feel and what is seen on video of recording are two different things. GG touches on it in his website course in a couple sections. Monte talks about it in a lot of videos on his site and social media. AMG does as well. It’s usually why exaggerated movements are used for drills and getting the golfer to feel things. 
 

I have had a couple instructors say the same thing in lessons. Feel x and then when looking at the video it looks nothing like the feel. 

 

[Kenny B]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s more than the basic pitch shot. It’s where any shot that needs to take distance off is typically hit from. If the body isn’t moving correctly from backswing A aka lead arm parallel then it’s not going to work properly at backswing B aka full swing. 
 

Hitting shots from both positions are important but moving on to backswing B before consistently hitting good shots from backswing A is going to delay progress.

Not that any of us are John Rahm or Tony Finau but they can have really good good games with a backswing A type swing

That's my problem.  I don't take shots where I need to take distance off, except for shots under 80 yards.  So I guess for me the backswing A swing is a partial shot with wedges.  I do pretty well with that shot.  If I try that shot with longer clubs, my tendency is to start the downswing with upper body resulting in really bad results.  I must make a conscience effort to get to backswing B which delays the start of the downswing enough that I make the proper rotation.

[bens197]

12 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Our body perception can be weird sometimes. 

It's fun to watch a golfers initial reaction to their swings on video for the first time.  "Wait, that's what it looks like?"

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Thai goes for pretty much every golfer. What we feel and what is seen on video of recording are two different things. GG touches on it in his website course in a couple sections. Monte talks about it in a lot of videos on his site and social media. AMG does as well. It’s usually why exaggerated movements are used for drills and getting the golfer to feel things. 
 

I have had a couple instructors say the same thing in lessons. Feel x and then when looking at the video it looks nothing like the feel. 

 

totally agree. had the intention today to do half swings and it turned out i was still over rotating with my shoulders.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

I noted above about how for me, feel isn't real - when I think I'm swinging with backswing A, my hands are actually almost at shoulder height and I hit consistent, pretty straight shots with irons & wedges. Just focusing on that helped me a lot. When I was in lessons, I was told to feel like my hands didn't pass my thigh and I was a little past left arm parallel. Our body perception can be weird sometimes. 

To add on to my earlier reply. Look at Justin Rose and the drill he does to feel the club drop while keeping the back to the target more or to an extreme of that Alex Noren.

Tiger talks about Butch having him feel like the jaded beat the body to the ball. 

1 minute ago, Kenny B said:

That's my problem.  I don't take shots where I need to take distance off, except for shots under 80 yards.  So I guess for me the backswing A swing is a partial shot with wedges.  I do pretty well with that shot.  If I try that shot with longer clubs, my tendency is to start the downswing with upper body resulting in really bad results.  I must make a conscience effort to get to backswing B which delays the start of the downswing enough that I make the proper rotation.

Lots of ways to skin the cat for partial shots. GG in his short game section on the website talks about using the 60 yard lob wedge shot to determine how far every club in the bag will go for that same swing length. His 7i distance for that same swing is 150 yards iirc.

he uses swing length and 3 speeds for chips and pitches based on what trajectory the ball needs to come out on and how it will roll on the green.

Then when you need the longer than 60 yard lob wedge swing you have the clock system and speed again.

As far as what you are saying this relates to what Monte covers in the transition part of NTC and keeping back to the target longer. The transition is the increased knee flex along with the cast A. When cast A is done the lead arm is back at parallel and it’s a rotation of the body at that point to the ball. Hitting shots from lead arm parallel helps engrain that movement pattern especially for those who have to make a significant change in their current movement patterns. 

[ejgaudette]

37 minutes ago, bens197 said:

It's fun to watch a golfers initial reaction to their swings on video for the first time.  "Wait, that's what it looks like?"

The first thought that came to mind was "wow that can't be right", but hey gotta own it right

[bens197]

25 minutes ago, ejgaudette said:

The first thought that came to mind was "wow that can't be right", but hey gotta own it right

You gotta own it...swing your swing! 

 

[chisag]

22 minutes ago, bens197 said:

You gotta own it...swing your swing! 

 

... I wonder what Chi Chi, Palmer, Floyd and Trevino would have thought of a modern instructor taking apart their "flawed" swings on video. Same thing today for Furyk, Wolff and Bubba. There was a Golf Digest article many years ago that showed all of the top players at impact and with wildly different backswings, their impact positions were virtually identical. Like you said ... swing your swing and make adjustments if necessary based on ball flight and accuracy, not how it looks on video. 
 

[vandyland]

Have been getting kind of wipey and hitting irons out to the right so worked on the feeling of my arms beating my hips to the ball. I doubt that is what it looks like but it keeps me from spinning out and I was hitting the ball more solidly today. Only time will tell how long this feel will last or if I end of hitting big hooks or pulls as a result. I have the tendency of getting to the top and just turning my body through it which, for me, usually leads to an open clubface at impact. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by vandyland

[bens197]

40 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I wonder what Chi Chi, Palmer, Floyd and Trevino would have thought of a modern instructor taking apart their "flawed" swings on video. Same thing today for Furyk, Wolff and Bubba. There was a Golf Digest article many years ago that showed all of the top players at impact and with wildly different backswings, their impact positions were virtually identical. Like you said ... swing your swing and make adjustments if necessary based on ball flight and accuracy, not how it looks on video. 
 

For some reason, I've been watching a lot of Faldo from the mid-90's.  There was something fantastic about his swing.  It was wide but compact, fluid but aggressive.

In an interview a few years ago, he was talking about the golfball and how his swing didn't necessarily work well with the new style ball.  When he was busy winning majors and Ryder Cups, he said he would be so focused on compressing the ball.  For fun, it would be neat to see if any of those swings would produce similar results with newer technology.

[sirchunksalot]

20 hours ago, russtopherb said:

With the NTC, just getting to left arm parallel and setting the wrists, then focusing on cast B is something that's a lot like I had worked on when I took lessons a few years ago. Because doing that alone get a lot of people, including me, into a good backswing position with proper wrist set. One thing I personally have learned is that since I have a strong grip, trying for the totally flat wrist actually leaves me with a closed face. Feeling like I'm just going thumbs up at waist high is a lot more like a full backswing. 

Just for fun, I checked out the cast B drill and that looks like it's going to take a minute or thousand for me to get down. I'm not going to jump ahead, just like seeing what all the video entails to satisfy my curiosity. 

16 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Great comments!  I saw the same things.  

@sirchunksalot I recommend watching the NTC video one section at a time, focusing on the moves Monte is emphasizing.  Repeat.  Watch each section over and over starting with the No-Turn Backswing.  Don't move on until you get in the position Monte shows.  You need to get the wrists set correctly.  To get rid of the inside move, do the Backswing A-drill.  Do it over and over; slo-mo... video yourself doing it.   You could hit balls from this backswing position, but I don't recommend it until after you complete the Backswing B-drill correctly... going from 7 to 8 o'clock.  That's the position you will be in later when you rotate to impact.  

Good luck!!  There are lots of jewels in the NTC video; I didn't see many of them until I watched it many times.  Don't rush it!!  As you said, making this big of a change will take time, so don't get discouraged in the short term.

I appreciate the advice and plan on working on the Backswing A drill for quite a while. I even messed around with it today leaving work with the umbrella I carried in. I wanted to work on setting the wrists in the proper position and worked on the feeling of getting to a flat lead wrist. It's definitely going to take a while to iron out all the bad things in my swing, as there are many. Right now it seems like:

Pros: I can make contact and advance the ball

Cons: everything else, but at least I can putt.

Might have just jinxed myself. 

[HeathS16]

5 hours ago, B.Boston said:

Dirty, filthy bombs.  Phil would be proud.  

 

I’m more of a hellacious seed type of guy but that bomb looked pretty good! 

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, sirchunksalot said:

Just for fun, I checked out the cast B drill and that looks like it's going to take a minute or thousand for me to get down. I'm not going to jump ahead, just like seeing what all the video entails to satisfy my curiosity. 

If doing the rest of the stuff right cast b should happen naturally, but Monte says if it’s not then work on cast b