What/How Did You Practice Today?

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 hours ago, JerryB said:

Took some cuts into the net with my 8 iron today.  Had a bit of an "ah-ha" moment where I really narrowed my stance and gripped down as far as possible.  Had much more consistent contact and gave me some things to think about, which I touch on in my Gettin' Better thread.

 

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/54026-jerrybs-gettin-better-thread/page/4/#comment-884490

Having to grip down that far is a compensation for how far out of balance you are and how bent over you are at setup. The narrow stance will only limit your ability to shift and turn properly.

these are all band aids that may work for awhile but aren’t going to lead to long term success.

somethings that stand out in your videos are your left hand is too weak and your right hand too strong.

You move the club with the arms and has no rotation in the swing and as a result you whip the club inside and then lift the arms and over bend the right arm leading to no width in the swing. 
 

All of this leads to on over the top move by starting your upper body out towards the ball and then due to lack of rotation have to slow down for the arms to catch up and then flip to hit the ball. In the video it looked like you ended up hitting the shot a little fat.

If you want to improve I would highly recommend finding a pro to work with 

[cksurfdude]

53 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you want to improve I would highly recommend finding a pro to work with 

Absolutely. Once you start to ingrain bad habits it becomes a very difficult chore to unlearn them..!

..or so I heard from a friend

 

@JerryB - one add'l suggestion: look at Monte Scheinblum vid tips on Insta and see if they "speak" to you and what you're trying to achieve.

Maybe also look at a preview of his "No Turn Cast" instruction video and see if it makes sense to you. Some of what @RickyBobby_PR described above also related to me, and after attending Monte's in-person clinic I purchased that vid and it's been a huge help to me!

FYI

YMMV of course

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Absolutely. Once you start to ingrain bad habits it becomes a very difficult chore to unlearn them..!

..or so I heard from a friend

Very difficult and the more complicated a movement is the harder it will be 

[MacTourney]

17 hours ago, JerryB said:

Took some cuts into the net with my 8 iron today.  Had a bit of an "ah-ha" moment...

What was the ah-ha moment?  What ruby as large as a turkey's egg can you give to us.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by MacTourney

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Have been struggling with heel strikes putting. Tried a couple new grips out and really found the reverse overlap grip to work especially when I focus pressure on my thumb and pointer finger (suggestion from another site). Less heel strikes and straighter start line. Will see how that works out. 
 

also briefly worked on swing lesson work trying to come more from the inside. Going to be a long road so putting the time in now. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Have been struggling with heel strikes putting. Tried a couple new grips out and really found the reverse overlap grip to work especially when I focus pressure on my thumb and pointer finger (suggestion from another site). Less heel strikes and straighter start line. Will see how that works out. 
 

also briefly worked on swing lesson work trying to come more from the inside. Going to be a long road so putting the time in now. 

From your last video what I see I that while you are getting the hips rotated you aren’t getting right hip depth and keeping en right hip back in transition. Also what happens in transition is your are steep because as your rotate your not creating any separation between the upper and lower body so they rotate one piece. The club comes in slightly open so the heel being presented to the ball from the inside.

Using the ground and getting the pressure to the trail side early then to the lead side between lead arm parallel and top of the swing and using the ground to create the turn instead of the using the body to turn will help this 

Also one of the downsides of doing full swing drills/movements with no ball is you don’t return the club to the same place as address and will think every thing is fine. In your video you can see the club would miss the ball or you would potentially hit it off the toe with the swing in the video 

[cksurfdude]

Had a good lesson where I feel I made a nice step forward - well, after the proverbial two steps back recently

Current focus is on extending the arms .. especially the right arm .. into and through impact. When it works I'm making a nice, solid impact.

We've been rebuilding my swing piece by piece, so it's been some work over a period of time .. but of course is very much still continuing!

[Jim Shaw]

i like that idea of extension with your right arm if you are right handed lol... one lesson I had was "face and path" the pro wanted me to keep hte face of the club along the path to the target, that kindof worked as well

 

[MacTourney]

31 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Had a good lesson where I feel I made a nice step forward - well, after the proverbial two steps back recently

Current focus is on extending the arms .. especially the right arm .. into and through impact. When it works I'm making a nice, solid impact.

We've been rebuilding my swing piece by piece, so it's been some work over a period of time .. but of course is very much still continuing!

How would you know, or what baseline dynamic have you established, that would tell you the trail arm is not working to extend as you feel it should. 

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, Jim Shaw said:

i like that idea of extension with your right arm if you are right handed lol... one lesson I had was "face and path" the pro wanted me to keep hte face of the club along the path to the target, that kindof worked as well

 

... This is one of the reasons I told all my students the instruction I was giving them was for them only. Obviously his  "face and path" suggestion was addressing a fault of yours but when most golfers do this it leads to slicing because by attempting to hold the face square, they actually hold it a little open. For someone battling a hook it is a great tip but for someone hitting a straight ball or fade it is a recipe for a big slice.

 

... I have always felt the golf swing is a dynamic movement and should be addressed as a whole. Often Hall of Fame golfers in the past had a swing flaw that dictated using a 2nd swing flaw to correct it, but they did it consistently every swing. Combined with what we feel we are doing is very rarely what we are actually doing. So I have never been a fan of attempting to achieve positions, unless you are correcting a flaw of course OR it is under the watchful eye of an instructor. I will add some golfers are just technically oriented so "positions" may work better for them than someone that is more athletic and plays by a dynamic feel. 

[Jim Shaw]

what level are most of your student chisag? ie. below 10 index? I believe the swing is a series of cause and affect. ie, this move will affect the ball and cause this. This is important for me during competition so I can know what effect caused that shot, a simple example is a skull, the cause is your eyes didnt return to their original position causing the club to contact a different area, so then I make sure to keep my eye on a dimple on the ball or the back of the ball etc which i practice all the time anyway. With your "feel" approach to the game, if you are not "feeling" it on a certain day, what do you do to fix that during the round?

[flaridaMarlin]

Today, I worked on my chipping technique using the Cowen natural forces style. It emphasizes allowing gravity to help generate power and speed, rather than relying on muscle power. I also focused on keeping my body in balance and using the ground to my advantage in order to make the ball travel farther. I'll be hitting the practice green again tomorrow to continue to hone my skills using this method.

[chisag]

6 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

what level are most of your student chisag? ie. below 10 index? I believe the swing is a series of cause and affect. ie, this move will affect the ball and cause this. This is important for me during competition so I can know what effect caused that shot, a simple example is a skull, the cause is your eyes didnt return to their original position causing the club to contact a different area, so then I make sure to keep my eye on a dimple on the ball or the back of the ball etc which i practice all the time anyway. With your "feel" approach to the game, if you are not "feeling" it on a certain day, what do you do to fix that during the round?

 

... I haven't taught in many years and most of my students were high index players. I had quite a few mid index and only a handful of low index players. In my opinion, they only way to play golf is thought free. Just look at your target and attempt to hit the ball at that target. Swing positions can be worked on at the range after the round. Or during a practice. That would not include a swing thought in your pre swing routine. If thinking "keep my eye on a simple on the back of the ball" is a good key for you I am all for it.That said, I am not a fan of fixing anything while you play, just play with what you have. 

... Most that top the ball do so because they are trying to lift it in the air instead of trusting the loft of the club. The more they skull it, the more they lift. Similar to someone slicing and aiming further right because the ball is curving so much, causing more of a slice. Now as a 0.5 index you probably know what your recurring swing issues are and you know how to fix them during a round. Most better players have things in their swing that can creep in when playing and know how to fix them, although not always during a round. But so many start going through position checklists and that is a recipe for frustration. 

... As far as feel, I had a few very technical students and we just weren't a good match. They constantly worried about positions instead of just swinging or hitting. I grew up in an era of Chi Chi, Floyd, Palmer and Trevino that all had radically different but very successful swings and they could not have cared less about positions. And I absolutely agree with you about cause and effect, we probably just go about it differently. I love the story of two rookies struggling on the range before playing in Byron Nelsons tournament and one asked should they weaken their right hand or something different and Byron said "Boys, if you didn't bring it with you, you aren't gonna find it here. Just warm up and then go play golf." Or Michael Jordan who said when his shot was off he never tried to fix it, he just played more aggressive defense and that took his mind off his shooting and his shot always came back.

... Thinking is the enemy of every athlete and in most sports you are reacting to others. Golf is unique in you have all the time in the world to get in your own head. In a proper swing sequence (which everyone doesn't have) your trail elbow will lead into your trail hip. But simply trying to achieve that position without a proper sequence can cause a myriad of other swing problems. Kinda like "lag" is a natural by product of a good swing, but trying to "create lag' by holding off the release to achieve a position will completely destroy most golfers sequencing. 

... Lastly I think there are just so many ways to play golf. If anything including trying to obtain specific positions works for someones mental process and helps them play better, that's great and I would never try and change them. 

[Jim Shaw]

great post Chisad, of course the pro's you mentioned that you tried to emulate were all feel players, however arguably the greatest of their generation, Hogan, Nicklaus, Woods were not. I am totally focused on competitive amateur golf, so to not have a "backup" plan if my game is not firing on all cylinders could be the difference between making the cut or not making the cut, or finishing top 10 and not finishing top 10. I try and keep it simple when I am in the competition, I usually have 3 tasks, 1-"play don't predict" this helps me if i get out of my comfort zone say get to 4 under through 9 holes and my subconscious says "hey you aren't suppose to be here" 2= "breath" using breathing techniques to loosen my shoulders which get tight under extreme pressure and 3- "concurrent critigue" which is something I do on the tee box on 7 and 13, it is just a reminder of my thought process for the day be it, eye on the back of the ball, head still, follow through or R&B (rhythm and balance) or sometimes it is just some trigger I have seen on TV or been working on. For me if it was aim at the pin and hit the ball just wouldn't and didnt cut it, because I used to play by feel in the 70's and 80's and it didnt carry me to success. Now having said all that, and I think that is why I am intrigued with your feel play, is that after 8 solid years of heavy mechanics with lots of success I am thinking it may be time to inject a wee bit of feel back into my game to get to a new level, we will see. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

I was all excited that I would get some range time in today with the weather being a slight bit less wet and although I do have to work all day (heading into work in about 10 minutes and have an event going on all day ending at 11pm) but normally games are 2 hours between games so that would have left me about a hour for the range. Unfortunately after double checking the game schedule they are shortened games so only last about a hour and a half which is still possible, but kills the time greater making it too rushed. So sadly have to wait till sometime next week instead!

[cksurfdude]

10 hours ago, MacTourney said:

How would you know, or what baseline dynamic have you established, that would tell you the trail arm is not working to extend as you feel it should. 

Great question - I've been working with the same instructor for getting close to two years I think, so he's very familiar with all my golf swing quirks and foibles! 

These lessons are indoors at a GolfTec center, where one of their tools is video analysis + side by side comparison to a tour pro as a swing model.

* No: they do not expect the student to swing like a pro .. .. but they do want you to pattern your movements to be more alike to the pro they show you.

In my case (emphasized as obviously each person is different) I was keeping my right/trail elbow tucked into my side for too long .. which made me tend to get the club head outside of the proper plane and path .. and then kind of cut off the follow-through, more across my body instead of more out towards the target.

When I start to get it there's a noticeable difference in the sound and feel at impact, plus you can see it in the ball flight.

[cksurfdude]

11 hours ago, Jim Shaw said:

i like that idea of extension with your right arm if you are right handed lol... one lesson I had was "face and path" the pro wanted me to keep hte face of the club along the path to the target, that kindof worked as well

Nice, thx, but... Standard disclaimer I was not offering swing advice, only relating about a lesson that was productive for me. 

If you're still seeing that same pro maybe ask about this next time?

 

10 hours ago, chisag said:

... This is one of the reasons I told all my students the instruction I was giving them was for them only. 

Yes! Mentioned in an earlier post I've been working with the same instructor for *many* lessons, so - this particular move is not "the fix" for me .. rather it's the next step in an ongoing sequence of building a better golf swing.

Work In Progress!

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Jim Shaw said:

Now having said all that, and I think that is why I am intrigued with your feel play, is that after 8 solid years of heavy mechanics with lots of success I am thinking it may be time to inject a wee bit of feel back into my game to get to a new level, we will see. 

 

... Sounds interesting.  To be fair I have always been a feel player in any sport and that involves lots and lots of trust. I will probably lose more than a few here but I have stated before the brain is an amazing computer and if you give it the necessary information it can and will accomplish the task. But if you over load it, functioning becomes erratic. I have always said and I truly believe you don't have to actively line up or calculate the line/speed of a putt. I will use today as an example but it happens all the time. Dropped 2 balls on the practice green before teeing off, took a look at the hole some 25 feet away and stroked my warm up putt and rolled it in. Next putt barely missed leaving a 6 inch tap in. I would challenge anyone to do the same and IF they aren't concentrating on mechanics but just take a look at the length of the putt with the slope and break and let your brain take in the line and the speed, you will come close to holing it. 

... A couple reasons why. First even though you are aiming at the hole, you don't really care whether it goes in or not because you are just warming up and that gives you the freedom for a tension free stroke. Secondly, once you allow your brain to take in the putt, it will figure break, slope and speed to get it there IF you don't get in it's way or give it conflicting information. This is pretty much the way I putt when I play or compete. I trust my brain will use the information my eyes gives it, transmit the correct response to my body and allow me to accomplish the goal of holing it. My speed is especially accurate regardless of break or slope and I very rarely 3 putt because I never give it information like " I don't want to hit it too hard up the slope because once it hits the crest it's downhill and I don't wanna hit it long. Hmmmm. I certainly don't wanna leave it short either resulting in a tough downhill putt". The brain doesn't deal in dont's so it just hears "hit it too hard. hit it long. leave it short" How is it supposed to accomplish that?  I really cringe when I hear a high or even mid index player say after a great drive "Now I will probably screw up the 2nd shot" with a laugh and of course the brain just hears "screw up the second shot" and my personal favorite "I'll probably 3 putt" with the brain hearing "3 putt" and more often than not accomplishes the goal it is given.

... And all this plays into feel where trust is paramount. Of course there are days when my feel is a little off. For one reason or another every putt seems a hair off or lips out. My swing just doesn't feel right and everything is a little off. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep. Maybe my mind is pre occupied with something beneath the surface I am unaware of or sometimes troubling things I am very aware of. Maybe I didn't have time to eat properly or drink enough water. Those usually result in brain interference so lots of grinding out pars or saving bogies. But more often than not, if I don't get in my brains way, it is my trusted companion and knows exactly what I expect from it, doing everything in it's power to accomplish what is asked.

... I play with so many that are in a constant state of corrections.  One of my best friends is a really long hitter and all around good player with no real weakness in his game and can reel off 2 birdies and an eagle in the first 5 holes. Then hit a push fade into the desert and immediately begins talking about how his hips are opening too fast or he is getting stuck or a rubrics cube of other position problems he needs to correct. I just marvel that he played 5 holes hitting excellent golf shots and didn't try to correct anything. But one bad swing and he is down the rabbit hole. Same with putting. Miss a short birdie putt and he is adjusting his stroke or speed or reading more/less break than he actually sees. We have probably played 200 rounds together and like all guy friends we are competitive. At 49 and clearly having more physical skill than I do he has never beat me even though some days he can be up 5 strokes. But sooner or later he will self destruct. Mentally, he is just his own worse enemy because he doesn't trust his success as much as feels the need to address his failures.

[Bag Ratt]

My course has been closed for about 10 days account of all the rain in Cali. They open today for walking only. I went and did sum short game work .for a hour.. Supposed to get sum  snow next week so it will be working on stretching and swings with a weighted club..

[Bag Ratt]

31 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Sounds interesting.  To be fair I have always been a feel player in any sport and that involves lots and lots of trust. I will probably lose more than a few here but I have stated before the brain is an amazing computer and if you give it the necessary information it can and will accomplish the task. But if you over load it, functioning becomes erratic. I have always said and I truly believe you don't have to actively line up or calculate the line/speed of a putt. I will use today as an example but it happens all the time. Dropped 2 balls on the practice green before teeing off, took a look at the hole some 25 feet away and stroked my warm up putt and rolled it in. Next putt barely missed leaving a 6 inch tap in. I would challenge anyone to do the same and IF they aren't concentrating on mechanics but just take a look at the length of the putt with the slope and break and let your brain take in the line and the speed, you will come close to holing it. 

... A couple reasons why. First even though you are aiming at the hole, you don't really care whether it goes in or not because you are just warming up and that gives you the freedom for a tension free stroke. Secondly, once you allow your brain to take in the putt, it will figure break, slope and speed to get it there IF you don't get in it's way or give it conflicting information. This is pretty much the way I putt when I play or compete. I trust my brain will use the information my eyes gives it, transmit the correct response to my body and allow me to accomplish the goal of holing it. My speed is especially accurate regardless of break or slope and I very rarely 3 putt because I never give it information like " I don't want to hit it too hard up the slope because once it hits the crest it's downhill and I don't wanna hit it long. Hmmmm. I certainly don't wanna leave it short either resulting in a tough downhill putt". The brain doesn't deal in dont's so it just hears "hit it too hard. hit it long. leave it short" How is it supposed to accomplish that?  I really cringe when I hear a high or even mid index player say after a great drive "Now I will probably screw up the 2nd shot" with a laugh and of course the brain just hears "screw up the second shot" and my personal favorite "I'll probably 3 putt" with the brain hearing "3 putt" and more often than not accomplishes the goal it is given.

... And all this plays into feel where trust is paramount. Of course there are days when my feel is a little off. For one reason or another every putt seems a hair off or lips out. My swing just doesn't feel right and everything is a little off. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep. Maybe my mind is pre occupied with something beneath the surface I am unaware of or sometimes troubling things I am very aware of. Maybe I didn't have time to eat properly or drink enough water. Those usually result in brain interference so lots of grinding out pars or saving bogies. But more often than not, if I don't get in my brains way, it is my trusted companion and knows exactly what I expect from it, doing everything in it's power to accomplish what is asked.

... I play with so many that are in a constant state of corrections.  One of my best friends is a really long hitter and all around good player with no real weakness in his game and can reel off 2 birdies and an eagle in the first 5 holes. Then hit a push fade into the desert and immediately begins talking about how his hips are opening too fast or he is getting stuck or a rubrics cube of other position problems he needs to correct. I just marvel that he played 5 holes hitting excellent golf shots and didn't try to correct anything. But one bad swing and he is down the rabbit hole. Same with putting. Miss a short birdie putt and he is adjusting his stroke or speed or reading more/less break than he actually sees. We have probably played 200 rounds together and like all guy friends we are competitive. At 49 and clearly having more physical skill than I do he has never beat me even though some days he can be up 5 strokes. But sooner or later he will self destruct. Mentally, he is just his own worse enemy because he doesn't trust his success as much as feels the need to address his failures.

Your friend needs a caddy!!! 

[MacTourney]

8 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

When I start to get it there's a noticeable difference in the sound and feel at impact, plus you can see it in the ball flight.

It's one of the game parts I enjoy the most, the only one truly experiencing how good a strike quality was, or was not, is reserved for the one doing the work.  For me, if the shaft passes the trail wrist before the striking the ball arm extension after the strike becomes more a wrapping around my torso thanks to a bent rear elbow instead of that arm extending outward and finishing high while staying connected. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by MacTourney

[MacTourney]

9 hours ago, chisag said:

...I have always been a feel player in any sport and that involves lots and lots of trust. 

The brain doesn't deal in dont's so it just hears "hit it too hard. hit it long. leave it short" How is it supposed to accomplish that? 

But more often than not, if I don't get in my brains way, it is my trusted companion and knows exactly what I expect from it, doing everything in it's power to accomplish what is asked.

Mentally, he is just his own worse enemy because he doesn't trust his success as much as feels the need to address his failures.

Feel is so important- it weaves itself throughout the game's fabric.

Have always had a few doubts, and a few other ideas simmering,  about how a brain-mind deals with a 'don't do this' exposure.   So, if I'm in line at a Golden Corral buffet style restaurant and my thought awareness is don't take the fish it looks spoiled would I experience a physiological response and grab the fish anyway.  I'm sure there's a difference locked away somewhere.    

Ever read Moe Norman's My Little Robot poem and have any thoughts about it?  I think his message is we don't direct the brain, it directs us.

Love the comment about your friend being his own worst enemy, lots of insight within. 

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, MacTourney said:

if I'm in line at a Golden Corral buffet style restaurant and my thought awareness is don't take the fish it looks spoiled would I experience a physiological response and grab the fish anyway.

 

... If you are in line at a Golden Corral buffet I am afraid your brain has stopped attempting to guide you. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Brought out the planemate for some indoor pitching feels. I forgot how that aid makes me feel soft in the hands and that rotation is accelerating the club. Then did that with my 4i for the same feel and then did feels without the band on my 7i. Really liked it and felt more leg drive. I videoed my 7i and I got in the slot well and my hip turn through was much better. I think bringing that in once or twice a week with my other lesson work really will help get my swing back on track. 

[RichL85]

Went to the range yesterday to work on incorporating the stuff I've been doing into the golf swing. It's a tough transition because I'm basically relearning motor patterns from what feels like a totally foreign setup position. Mostly ignored ball flight because I was more focused on just trying to sync the movements in the right order. When I get off, my hands tend to take over the swing and pull my body through rather than the rotation of my body bringing the hands and club along with it. When I was able to line everything up, it results in those swings that feel easy but the ball just seems to jump. It's going to take a lot more work until I can get to the point where that all happens without me consciously thinking about it. Overthinking is one of my problems, so until these patterns are more ingrained, I just have to accept some bad shots. 

Weather is back to rain for the next few days, so practice will be very limited outdoors. Probably just swing a club slowly indoors to work on the feelings. 

[chisag]

3 hours ago, RichL85 said:

I was more focused on just trying to sync the movements in the right order. When I get off, my hands tend to take over the swing and pull my body through rather than the rotation of my body bringing the hands and club along with it. When I was able to line everything up, it results in those swings that feel easy but the ball just seems to jump.

 

... The golf swing is like the 6 blind men experiencing an elephant for the first time. They all touch a different part of the elephant and they all experience something completely different. As always whatever works for you works but I have never been a fan of a "body" swing or a "hands" swing. The two must work in unison and what I found is most that ascribe to either camp, will almost always over use that element. Early in my golfing life I thought my swing was completely dominated by my hands swinging the club. Much later and after 2 back surgeries I attempted to make my swing a body rotation dominated swing with my hands along for the ride. Neither were successful in the long run. 

... I will use a less complicated than full swing example. I was being fit for a Piretti putter by Mike Johnson, Founder and President. After taking some video he complimented me on just rocking my shoulders and not using my hands. A little shocked I told him I don't use my shoulders at all and my feel and my stroke is all controlled by my hands. He showed me the video of my shoulders rocking back and through while my hands stayed passive on the grip, the shaft pointing just left of my belly button at address, at the top of the backswing and at the end of the follow through so I didn't use them at all. I told him I understood but it was my passive hands that moved the club and rocked my shoulders not the other way around. He told me I was wrong. 2 blind men feeling a putting stroke. 

... It was a great illustration of two radically different ways of looking at the same thing. What we perceive we are doing and what we are actually doing is usually not the same thing. Fwiw my golf swing is the same, if I ever concentrate on using my body actively my swing soon becomes disconnected. But when I allow my hands to move my arms and move my shoulders which moves my hips, my sequencing is always good. In reality I have a one piece take away and use all parts of my body together but for me it feels like everything goes through my hands. 

... So whatever works for your internal thought process that lets you experience "results in those swings that feel easy but the ball just seems to jump." is awesome!  Just be aware that if you focus more on one single part of the swing, there is a good chance that somewhere down the line you will over do that element and under do the other elements. 

[JerryB]

Tried hitting 8 iron into the net, rotating more and slowing down.  It's a mess, man.  I'm just not very aware of what my body is doing generally, and with the golf swing it's even worse.  I need to find someone nearby to work with in person.  I need my hand held, so to speak.

Switched gears and pulled out the Lagshot.  A few swings in and I noticed the ball looking a little fuzzy.  Not sure how or why, but it chewed the heck out of my ball!  Two more swings and two more scuffs.  Switched to a different ball for another dozen or so swings and no issues with the ball.  Bizarre.

[RichL85]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... The golf swing is like the 6 blind men experiencing an elephant for the first time. They all touch a different part of the elephant and they all experience something completely different. As always whatever works for you works but I have never been a fan of a "body" swing or a "hands" swing. The two must work in unison and what I found is most that ascribe to either camp, will almost always over use that element. Early in my golfing life I thought my swing was completely dominated by my hands swinging the club. Much later and after 2 back surgeries I attempted to make my swing a body rotation dominated swing with my hands along for the ride. 

... I will use a less complicated than full swing example. I was being fit for a Piretti putter by Mike Johnson, Founder and President. After taking some video he complimented me on just rocking my shoulders and not using my hands. A little shocked I told him I don't use my shoulders at all and my feel and my stroke is all controlled by my hands. He showed me the video of my shoulders rocking back and through while my hands stayed passive on the grip, the shaft pointing just left of my belly button at address, at the top of the backswing and at the end of the follow through so I didn't use them at all. I told him I understood but it was my passive hands that moved the club and rocked my shoulders not the other way around. He told me I was wrong. 2 blind men feeling a putting stroke. 

... It was a great illustration of two radically different ways of looking at the same thing. What we perceive we are doing and what we are actually doing is usually not the same thing. Fwiw my golf swing is the same, if I ever concentrate on using my body actively my swing soon becomes disconnected. But when I allow my hands to move my arms and move my shoulders which moves my hips, my sequencing is always good. In reality I have a one piece take away and use all parts of my body together but for me it feels like everything goes through my hands. 

... So whatever works for your internal thought process that lets you experience "results in those swings that feel easy but the ball just seems to jump." is awesome!  Just be aware that if you focus more on one single part of the swing, there is a good chance that somewhere down the line you will over do that element and under do the other elements. 

I get that. I'm basing this off my k-vest analysis where I can actually get into a point where my hands reach max speed before anything else and they just drag the rest of my body around the swing. It makes it very dependent on timing the compensations *for me*. 

I'm trying to get my swing to a point where there is less thinking and fewer compensations happening. My natural tendency, for whatever reason, seems to be to stabilize the lower body and take it out of the swing as much as possible. Not exactly the most efficient way, and not exactly kind to my back. 

*For me* the best swing feels like my hands initiate the takeaway and coil everything, and then they get lazy and everything uncoils in reverse order starting from the ground. Right now, if I don't consciously think of being lazy with the hands, I get unnecessarily quick at the transition and my body doesn't keep up with my hands. It's a very personal thing, and I am working to get that lazy hands to be more of an unconscious thing because it works *for me*. 

So I'm not necessarily making it a "body swing", I'm just trying to get the contribution of the body to match up with the natural contribution of the hands which comes easier to me from past sports

[MacTourney]

1 hour ago, JerryB said:

Tried hitting 8 iron into the net, rotating more and slowing down. 

Looks like a ball from the national dog day afternoon thread...

[cksurfdude]

8 hours ago, chisag said:

... like the 6 blind men experiencing an elephant for the first time. They all touch a different part of the elephant and they all experience something completely different.

And you didn't complete the story...

..the one guy way way all the way back at the back end of the elephant explains to the others: "An elephant is a large pile that is soft, mushy and very very smelly!"