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A question for everyone


MmmmmmBuddy
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I understand that Titleist Thursdays are a terrific resource for some players, but still do not offer the kind of detailed fitting that I believe in necessary to unlock the true potential of this product. All of the possible options are just not going to be available.

 

 Also, I just visited www.titleist.com/thursdays to see how close one would be to me, or some of my golfing buddies in Ashland, 150 miles south.  The nearest location to us is in Portland Oregon.  That is a 2 hour drive from here, and at least a 5 hour trip from southern Oregon.  That means 4-10 hours of driving, meals, gas...  Not a trivial thing.  

 

I am not trying to convince people that the 917 is bad of good. I just wanted to start a conversation about driver fitting, and how much is too much. What is reasonable?

 

Should your local shop guy with a launch monitor and a decent knowledge of ball flight and a complete fitting cart be able to optimize a given driver for 80% of players? Or should we be required to visit specialized fitters with lots of after market shafts, and spend extra $$$ to optimize our $500 drivers?

You mean I'm not optimized?   ;)

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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You mean I'm not optimized?   ;)

 

You sir, are as optimal as possible...

 

 

;)

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Driver - :taylormade-small:   SIM2 Max 9° Tour MT 6-S   or   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway - :srixon-small: ZX  3 wd. Ventus VeloCore Blue S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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I understand that Titleist Thursdays are a terrific resource for some players, but still do not offer the kind of detailed fitting that I believe in necessary to unlock the true potential of this product. All of the possible options are just not going to be available.

 

 Also, I just visited www.titleist.com/thursdays to see how close one would be to me, or some of my golfing buddies in Ashland, 150 miles south.  The nearest location to us is in Portland Oregon.  That is a 2 hour drive from here, and at least a 5 hour trip from southern Oregon.  That means 4-10 hours of driving, meals, gas...  Not a trivial thing.  

 

I am not trying to convince people that the 917 is bad of good. I just wanted to start a conversation about driver fitting, and how much is too much. What is reasonable?

 

Should your local shop guy with a launch monitor and a decent knowledge of ball flight and a complete fitting cart be able to optimize a given driver for 80% of players? Or should we be required to visit specialized fitters with lots of after market shafts, and spend extra $$$ to optimize our $500 drivers?

Oh no I get you.  And my last post was a lot more abbreviated than I meant it to be.  Someone walked in my office just as I was typing it and said "do you have a moment" by that they meant 30 minutes.LOL

 

Yep,  I realize the TT's weren't accessible for everyone by location this year.   I guess we were lucky in our area where there were two or three locations that they rotated between every few weeks, so it was pretty convenient.   Also I understand your larger point, that any experienced club fitter should be able to fit someone to any driver on the market.  

 

I have to be careful to not come off as an unabashed Titleist fan, when in fact there are lots of great drivers and irons out there, it's just this year I seemed to fall into so much of their stuff that worked for me, and once I started dropping strokes from my HC and the count of Titleist clubs in my bag increased, I couldn't help but tie them together :)

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:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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.  Someone walked in my office just as I was typing it and said "do you have a moment" by that they meant 30 minutes.LOL

 

 

 

I live this everyday. Except I have no door, or office. Just a desk in the middle of the golf shop..  Makes it pretty tough to GSD some days.

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Driver - :taylormade-small:   SIM2 Max 9° Tour MT 6-S   or   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway - :srixon-small: ZX  3 wd. Ventus VeloCore Blue S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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I really still do not understand people who still think shaft is more important than club head when trying to maximize performance when you have the top club builders and fitters saying the exact opposite over and over.

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I tend to think that we've lost touch with reality in the golf world...

 

Toyota releases a new Camry every year, but how many people get a new Camry every year expecting it to be vastly superior to last year's Camry? You get a new car when you need (or possibly want) one - same should hold true for golf clubs.

 

For example, I play Titleist 712MB irons. No reason to get new ones until these wear out. They are very similar to the 680's or 695's or whatever, and I'm sure that the 716's are no different either. When they wear out, I'll buy whatever number Titleist has on their MB's that year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I saw this a few days ago and meant to reply. This may be he best summary I've seen of the craziness that takes place in the golf world.

 

I have a friend that carries a +2. I'm fairly certain he could hit the sweet spot on an actual butter knife, and shoot even par with my 7 year old daughter's clubs. He STILL goes out and buys the newest Callaway driver every year like clockwork because he feels obligated to.

 

Long story short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Driver: Taylormade SLDR, Diamana Kai'li 70 

3 Wood: Callaway X Tour 15*

Hybrid: Bobby Jones 21* (Original)

Irons: Bridgestone J38 DPC 4-PW

Wedges: Scor 4161 52*, 57*

Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Style Newport

 

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Just saying info like this is exactly why I'm thrilled to have become a member of MGS. Awesome stuff!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway MAVRIK MAX 3 - wood
Callaway Big Bertha 2019  4 & 5 hybrid 
Callaway Mavrik Max 6 hybrid
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 7 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Cleveland CBX Full-Face Wedge 58 degree
Odyssey 
 ODYSSEY ARM-LOCK 2-BALL TEN 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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For whatever its worth. 

 

I fit a customer into a 917 driver on Friday.  The process entailed a 15 min warmup period, followed by a 90 min session of trial and error with swapping heads/shafts/hosel positions/weight positions.  In the end, we decided that the 917D3 was slightly more accurate than his 913D3 I fit him for 4 years ago.  There was no statistical improvement in total yards, only a slight improvement in trajectory and accuracy.  

 

It should be noted that this customer walked in wanting to buy this exact driver, and would not consider trying anything else.  

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Driver - :taylormade-small:   SIM2 Max 9° Tour MT 6-S   or   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway - :srixon-small: ZX  3 wd. Ventus VeloCore Blue S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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For whatever its worth. 

 

I fit a customer into a 917 driver on Friday.  The process entailed a 15 min warmup period, followed by a 90 min session of trial and error with swapping heads/shafts/hosel positions/weight positions.  In the end, we decided that the 917D3 was slightly more accurate than his 913D3 I fit him for 4 years ago.  There was no statistical improvement in total yards, only a slight improvement in trajectory and accuracy.  

 

It should be noted that this customer walked in wanting to buy this exact driver, and would not consider trying anything else.  

 

Since when did "trial and error" become an integral part of the fitting process? In 90 minutes, just about anyone could swap enough head and shaft combinations and satisfy themselves that  their driving was a "slight" improvement. 

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Since when did "trial and error" become an integral part of the fitting process? In 90 minutes, just about anyone could swap enough head and shaft combinations and satisfy themselves that  their driving was a "slight" improvement. 

 

Yep..  I'm a blind pig.

Driver - :taylormade-small:   SIM2 Max 9° Tour MT 6-S   or   :srixon-small: ZX 7 9.5° Ventus VeloCore Blue S
Fairway - :srixon-small: ZX  3 wd. Ventus VeloCore Blue S

Hybrid - :srixon-small: ZX 18° GD Tour IZ S

2 Iron - :srixon-small: ZU65 18° AeroTech SteelFiber 110icw S

Irons -  :srixon-small: ZX7  Aerotech SteelFiber 110icw  4-Pw 1° flat
Wedges - :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Raw 50° 54° 58°  TTGDTI S400 1° flat

Putters -   Cameron Phantom 5x/Odyssey Toulon Stroke Lab Austin/Odyssey 2 Ball DFX/ TaylorMade Spider
Tour Black/Ping Anser F/Scotty Cameron TeI3 Sole Stamp Newport 2. All with different grips, weights, and lengths.
 

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For whatever its worth. 

 

I fit a customer into a 917 driver on Friday.  The process entailed a 15 min warmup period, followed by a 90 min session of trial and error with swapping heads/shafts/hosel positions/weight positions.  In the end, we decided that the 917D3 was slightly more accurate than his 913D3 I fit him for 4 years ago.  There was no statistical improvement in total yards, only a slight improvement in trajectory and accuracy.  

 

It should be noted that this customer walked in wanting to buy this exact driver, and would not consider trying anything else.  

Did I miss it??  Did you write this exact same post last spring when I bought the JGR?   :ph34r:

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I couldn't agree more with your assessment MmmmmBuddy. 

 

The thing is though, you could do a direct comparison between the old and new model of pretty much every OEM and see the same difference between them. The idea is though that we are all leaving performance on the table without a proper fitting. If the guys who went for this fitting were all professionally fit in a similar fashion for the 915 and they were able to see gains with the 917, that's actually impressive. It shows they made a better driver. Especially if the people that were sent were low handicappers (or capable with the driver). With a perfect swing and dead center contact on one driver to the next, the differences are going to be nothing but marginal.

 

The real difference though is your off center strikes. I haven't read the thread with the fitting yet, but did they show impact groupings and how that effected the player from driver to driver? The thing is that we all have a perfect setup with CG location, shaft, loft and spin models that fit us the best. Let's say we were brand loyal and bought one driver for years that didn't fit that ideal model and then we went for a fitting, were open minded, and happened to find one that better lined up with our natural requirements out of a driver. THAT is where a golfer is going to see a massive gain. Finding the ideal setup no matter brand preferences. It sounds like these guys found that with Titleist and simply performed similarly with the new product.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Wouldn't a golfer who is looking to get fit, have to have consistency to make the fitting even worth it?  How could a fitter sucessfully do his job if Joe Smo is hacking it all over the ball park.   I've always wonder where you draw the line between fittiable and don't waste ya money on it.

  • Like 1

Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway MAVRIK MAX 3 - wood
Callaway Big Bertha 2019  4 & 5 hybrid 
Callaway Mavrik Max 6 hybrid
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 7 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Cleveland CBX Full-Face Wedge 58 degree
Odyssey 
 ODYSSEY ARM-LOCK 2-BALL TEN 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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Wouldn't a golfer who is looking to get fit, have to have consistency to make the fitting even worth it?  How could a fitter sucessfully do his job if Joe Smo is hacking it all over the ball park.   I've always wonder where you draw the line between fittiable and don't waste ya money on it.

I'm more of the mind set that anyone can and should be fit.  What that entails may differ, and the expected outcome may differ, but at the end of the day I truly believe getting fit can benefit anyone.

 

I also am always amazed at fitting how much more consistent out swings actually are compared to what we thing they are.  A miss doesn't have to be that far off before you see a completely different result, but for the most part we deliver the club to the ball in a pretty consistent fashion.  It's about fitting the overall tendencies rather than the one off pure strikes.

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Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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I'm more of the mind set that anyone can and should be fit.  What that entails may differ, and the expected outcome may differ, but at the end of the day I truly believe getting fit can benefit anyone.

 

I also am always amazed at fitting how much more consistent out swings actually are compared to what we thing they are.  A miss doesn't have to be that far off before you see a completely different result, but for the most part we deliver the club to the ball in a pretty consistent fashion.  It's about fitting the overall tendencies rather than the one off pure strikes.

 

Now ya cooking with Crisco.   If a fitter can help a golfer with his God given swing, then he is worth his/her weight in gold.

  • Like 1

Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway MAVRIK MAX 3 - wood
Callaway Big Bertha 2019  4 & 5 hybrid 
Callaway Mavrik Max 6 hybrid
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 7 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Cleveland CBX Full-Face Wedge 58 degree
Odyssey 
 ODYSSEY ARM-LOCK 2-BALL TEN 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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Hcky, I was mentally writing my response to that question until I read yours, which was exactly the same as mine. Haha.

 

The biggest take away that a lot of golfers just don't understand is how consistent we all are with our swing. No matter the handicap, your body intuitively knows how to move in a certain way. We present consistent numbers to the ball based on what we bring to the table, and it's the fitters job to decipher those tendencies and then prescribe the perfect combination of clubs to work in harmony with what you present. That's a fitting/fitter's job in a nutshell.

 

With that being said you CAN change the numbers that are presented to the ball (say your path from out to in to in to out) and that for the most part will only effect your lie angle requirements and/or your dynamic loft. Both of those can be corrected through bending the irons though, and really you would have to make some major changes for that to happen. But it wouldn't effect which shaft, head, swing weight, etc would fit you the best!

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:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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Hcky, I was mentally writing my response to that question until I read yours, which was exactly the same as mine. Haha.

 

The biggest take away that a lot of golfers just don't understand is how consistent we all are with our swing. No matter the handicap, your body intuitively knows how to move in a certain way. We present consistent numbers to the ball based on what we bring to the table, and it's the fitters job to decipher those tendencies and then prescribe the perfect combination of clubs to work in harmony with what you present. That's a fitting/fitter's job in a nutshell.

 

With that being said you CAN change the numbers that are presented to the ball (say your path from out to in to in to out) and that for the most part will only effect your lie angle requirements and/or your dynamic loft. Both of those can be corrected through bending the irons though, and really you would have to make some major changes for that to happen. But it wouldn't effect which shaft, head, swing weight, etc would fit you the best!

. What? Every time i go to simulator I get different numbers.Also with many others that I know who use it.I beg to differ
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. What? Every time i go to simulator I get different numbers.Also with many others that I know who use it.I beg to differ

Not sure if you've been fit before by a quality/competent fitter.  Or if you've been on a trackman or other quality launch monitor.  But that is where you are going to see it.

 

I can go to a local sim and get different results all day as well.  But on a quality launch monitor we are going to see that the misses are actually pretty small and I deliver the club to the ball in generally the same manner every time.  A good fitter is going to see those tendencies and be able to put a product in my hand that I can hit well on a consistent basis.

 

Back to the original post, if you've been fit for your current driver AND it's a good fit, it's going to be hard to find leaps and bounds improvement in a new club.  At best your improvement is going to be marginal, or you might not see any noticeable difference.  3 years ago I was fit for a SLDR, it's a great fit for me.  I've tried time and time again to replace it, but nothing has given me a noticeable improvement.  When you find the right combination for your swing it's hard to drastically improve on that without some sort of swing change.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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In my case, the adjustability did come into play. I have been custom fit for over 5 years and it has been my experience that the fitter did dial me in better but it was usually the loft that he messed with to get better spin numbers. I never had him touch the lie. Once I was fit to optimal numbers indoors I would go outside and play. For the most part they were spot on

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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I've enjoyed catching up on this thread. I'm sure that I posted this early on but I will bring it back. I went for a driver fitting last spring. About an hour in the fitter said, that's why the OEMs aren't selling new clubs.

 

With everything we tried we found a couple of yards indoors on a track man over my current driver. It wasn't likely to hold because I've been using it for two years and am comfortable with it.

 

 

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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