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Not sure if this is the correct thread or not, but I have a question about rules. The other day I found myself in a fairway bunker and I noticed what seemed to be a tiny stick sticking up from the sand just in front of my ball. As I went to pull it out of the sand I found it connected to a loose root that ran along and just under the surface of the sand. Now I know that you obviously can’t move tree roots in the rough, because they are mostly immovable, but is it okay to pull/move a root that is connected from one side of the bunker to the other side? Does someone get relief from such things in a bunker? My playing partners agreed to giving me relief seeing as how my club would’ve gotten caught on the loose root during my swing, but was that the right call?

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31 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Not sure if this is the correct thread or not, but I have a question about rules. The other day I found myself in a fairway bunker and I noticed what seemed to be a tiny stick sticking up from the sand just in front of my ball. As I went to pull it out of the sand I found it connected to a loose root that ran along and just under the surface of the sand. Now I know that you obviously can’t move tree roots in the rough, because they are mostly immovable, but is it okay to pull/move a root that is connected from one side of the bunker to the other side? Does someone get relief from such things in a bunker? My playing partners agreed to giving me relief seeing as how my club would’ve gotten caught on the loose root during my swing, but was that the right call?

calling @DaveP043

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38 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Not sure if this is the correct thread or not, but I have a question about rules. The other day I found myself in a fairway bunker and I noticed what seemed to be a tiny stick sticking up from the sand just in front of my ball. As I went to pull it out of the sand I found it connected to a loose root that ran along and just under the surface of the sand. Now I know that you obviously can’t move tree roots in the rough, because they are mostly immovable, but is it okay to pull/move a root that is connected from one side of the bunker to the other side? Does someone get relief from such things in a bunker? My playing partners agreed to giving me relief seeing as how my club would’ve gotten caught on the loose root during my swing, but was that the right call?

I’m interested in the answer because that’s an interesting thing to happen 

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10 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I’m on day 11 of our family trip back to my in-laws in Erie, PA.  Spent three of those days near Philly going to Sesame Place, today I went to Kennywood near Pittsburgh and tomorrow is Idlewild…don’t know why my wife is pushing amusement parks this time around but tomorrow will make 3.  🙄

Back in Omaha Thursday…got a message my 919 Forged reshafting job is complete…can’t wait to take them to the range with those fresh Steelfibers!

I took my son and one of his friends to Kennywood a couple of years ago, it wasn't too bad, but it was hot.

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I have a flow up question to that. Where does the self preservation come in?

 

Say you are in a lie where if you swing, your wrist will be misshapen afterwards and can’t play golf for a year?

I have never personally read the rules all the way through.  Is there a “personal injury”‘prevention rule? 
 

I can tell you that I won’t be hitting a ball from a lie that has the potential to inure me, or break my clubs.

sue me.

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23 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I have a flow up question to that. Where does the self preservation come in?

 

Say you are in a lie where if you swing, your wrist will be misshapen afterwards and can’t play golf for a year?

I have never personally read the rules all the way through.  Is there a “personal injury”‘prevention rule? 
 

I can tell you that I won’t be hitting a ball from a lie that has the potential to inure me, or break my clubs.

sue me.

According to the rules that would be an “unplayable lie”.  You can take an unplayable lie anywhere, take relief and add a penalty stroke. 
 

there are also rules about dangerous situations …fire ants, snakes, alligators, etc.  no penalty relief from those. 

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12 hours ago, Getoffmylawn said:

I’m on day 11 of our family trip back to my in-laws in Erie, PA.  Spent three of those days near Philly going to Sesame Place, today I went to Kennywood near Pittsburgh and tomorrow is Idlewild…don’t know why my wife is pushing amusement parks this time around but tomorrow will make 3.  🙄

Back in Omaha Thursday…got a message my 919 Forged reshafting job is complete…can’t wait to take them to the range with those fresh Steelfibers!

And you didn't stop by Cedar Point in Sandusky? Not too far from Erie, Pa. 

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13 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

And you didn't stop by Cedar Point in Sandusky? Not too far from Erie, Pa. 

Kids are 8, 6, and 4…parks I mentioned have more to offer little kiddos.  I’m sure Cedar Point will happen in a future year.

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2 hours ago, Shankster said:

I have a flow up question to that. Where does the self preservation come in?

Say you are in a lie where if you swing, your wrist will be misshapen afterwards and can’t play golf for a year?

I have never personally read the rules all the way through.  Is there a “personal injury”‘prevention rule? 

I can tell you that I won’t be hitting a ball from a lie that has the potential to inure me, or break my clubs.

sue me.

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

According to the rules that would be an “unplayable lie”.  You can take an unplayable lie anywhere, take relief and add a penalty stroke. 

As usual, @cnosil has it exactly right, there are situations where you really should take Unplayable Lie Relief rather than risk injury.  Now there ARE some Model Local Rules that address some of these "dangerous" lies, I specifically remember one about relief from roots, but these have to be put into effect by the Committee to be used.  

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Two places in the Rules address this, Rule 12 - Bunkers, which refers you to Rule 15 - Relief from Loose Impediments and Moveable Obstructions.  In a bunker, you can move Loose Impediments and Moveable Obstructions.  But if you look at the Rules and the Definitions of these terms, you find that an attached root is neither, so you don't get relief and you don't get to remove it.  If you go back to Rule 8 - Course Played as It Is Found you'll see that you're not allowed to move, bend, or break any growing or attached natural object.   Once you determined that the root was attached, and not a loose impediment, you really should have restored it to its original condition as closely as possible.  Note that this really applies all over the golf course, it its attached and growing, you're not supposed to "re-arrange" it at all.

Oh, something I strongly suggest, you should go and read these rules for yourself.  On one hand, you'll learn more about using the rules on your own that way.  On the other, if I've screwed up you can correct me.  I've done the first part of the work, you now have the specific rules to review.

Thank you very much for your response Dave, and I have followed your advice to read and search the rules, which brings me to Rule 16.1 - Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)...I see that the rule doesn't spell out "loose root" (I wish now that I had taken some pictures), but couldn't that be considered an immovable obstruction?

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8 minutes ago, M. Parsons said:

Thank you very much for your response Dave, and I have followed your advice to read and search the rules, which brings me to Rule 16.1 - Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)...I see that the rule doesn't spell out "loose root" (I wish now that I had taken some pictures), but couldn't that be considered an immovable obstruction?

This is where I'll refer you to the definition of Obstruction, where you'll find that Obstructions are artificial things.  Roots don't fit that definition.

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1 minute ago, sirchunksalot said:

My plant caught fire today in the body shop. Thankfully the only injuries were due to smoke inhalation and I hope the seven people affected recover soon. Fortunately, our plant has a good evacuation plan in place and we were able to get to safety quickly. 

https://www.newschannel9.com/news/local/chattanooga-firefighters-on-scene-of-reported-fire-at-volkswagen-tuesday-morning

 

Glad you're ok.

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32 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

My plant caught fire today in the body shop. Thankfully the only injuries were due to smoke inhalation and I hope the seven people affected recover soon. Fortunately, our plant has a good evacuation plan in place and we were able to get to safety quickly. 

https://www.newschannel9.com/news/local/chattanooga-firefighters-on-scene-of-reported-fire-at-volkswagen-tuesday-morning

 

Scary stuff, glad you all were ok.  You should probably get a few free vacation days to golf and de-stress from it! 

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36 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

My plant caught fire today in the body shop. Thankfully the only injuries were due to smoke inhalation and I hope the seven people affected recover soon. Fortunately, our plant has a good evacuation plan in place and we were able to get to safety quickly. 

https://www.newschannel9.com/news/local/chattanooga-firefighters-on-scene-of-reported-fire-at-volkswagen-tuesday-morning

 

Glad all was good, and this is why we do evacuation planning don’t yell at facilities when we do them 👍

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2 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Scary stuff, glad you all were ok.  You should probably get a few free vacation days to golf and de-stress from it! 

👍

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4 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Scary stuff, glad you all were ok.  You should probably get a few free vacation days to golf and de-stress from it! 

I couldn't agree more! We did get off today and I'm kind of wondering how we're going to produce anything since bodies can't get to paint. 

1 minute ago, Lacassem said:

Glad all was good, and this is why we do evacuation planning don’t yell at facilities when we do them 👍

I don't mind them at all, I was on the safety committee for about a two years and they do serve an amazing purpose. 

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