OFFICIAL FORUM MEMBER REVIEW - EVNROLL PUTTERS

[cnosil 17,049]

So for the guys that own or tested the evnroll putters, what is you thought on the various debates going on in social media regarding the evnroll grooves influencing the balls direction.

 

While off center hits may cause the ball to have some left to right or right to left spin I don't think it is significant enough to overcome the forward rotation that starts when the ball hits the ground during its skid phase. Was having a discussion and a point was made that if the correction is made on offcenter hits, wouldn't a ball that was hit online but not in the center curve out of the hole causing me to possibly miss the putt that would have otherwise been made?

 

After having tested the putters, I am sold on the distance control aspect of the face but can't comprehend the line correction aspect that is often discussed.

 

I guess I would need to see a straight putt with a putter that is x degrees open to the line have a toe strike and see where the ball ends up. Based on the 1* open face we could say the ball should be x distance to the right of the target line at any point. I the grooves correct I should be consistently inside that line.

[Shankster 26,386]

I'm becoming more interested in these things. I suck at putting, by far the worst part of my game. I think I need to go back to Chicago and test one and get fit. I could improve by 4+ shots a round. Too many 3 putts.

[Golfspy_CG2 26,573]

So for the guys that own or tested the evnroll putters, what is you thought on the various debates going on in social media regarding the evnroll grooves influencing the balls direction.

 

While off center hits may cause the ball to have some left to right or right to left spin I don't think it is significant enough to overcome the forward rotation that starts when the ball hits the ground during its skid phase. Was having a discussion and a point was made that if the correction is made on offcenter hits, wouldn't a ball that was hit online but not in the center curve out of the hole causing me to possibly miss the putt that would have otherwise been made?

 

After having tested the putters, I am sold on the distance control aspect of the face but can't comprehend the line correction aspect that is often discussed.

 

I guess I would need to see a straight putt with a putter that is x degrees open to the line have a toe strike and see where the ball ends up. Based on the 1* open face we could say the ball should be x distance to the right of the target line at any point. I the grooves correct I should be consistently inside that line.

I can't remember if I mentioned it in my review or not.  But in my experience, the biggest benefit of the increased face contact on off center hits was the distance control, as you elude to above.  I honestly can't recall any correction of the line as such.   But all of my testing was done outside on real grass and greens that varied in speed and such, so I'm not sure if that would have had any minimal difference.  But when I purposely missed out on the toe or on the heel, I lost very little in distance and was always still within a very short tap in of sorts on everything, but the longest of putss, such as when I did my 60 foot testing, it might have been 2 or 3 feet short as opposed to inches. 

[jlukes 13,661]

So for the guys that own or tested the evnroll putters, what is you thought on the various debates going on in social media regarding the evnroll grooves influencing the balls direction.

 

While off center hits may cause the ball to have some left to right or right to left spin I don't think it is significant enough to overcome the forward rotation that starts when the ball hits the ground during its skid phase. Was having a discussion and a point was made that if the correction is made on offcenter hits, wouldn't a ball that was hit online but not in the center curve out of the hole causing me to possibly miss the putt that would have otherwise been made?

 

After having tested the putters, I am sold on the distance control aspect of the face but can't comprehend the line correction aspect that is often discussed.

 

I guess I would need to see a straight putt with a putter that is x degrees open to the line have a toe strike and see where the ball ends up. Based on the 1* open face we could say the ball should be x distance to the right of the target line at any point. I the grooves correct I should be consistently inside that line.

 

Watch these videos and see for yourself

 

Scotty vs TMaG Spider vs ER1

 

 

 

Evnroll ER1 without grooves

 

vs

Evnroll ER1 With EvnRoll Grooves

[cnosil 17,049]

Watch these videos and see for yourself

 

So you have seen this effect personally or are there independent Tests that show the same thing? Call me doubtful but to me the gear effect or turning the ball toward the center seems to defy physics.

 

I have tried to test it myself and I like the evnroll putters. I think the grooves are the most effective for distance control.but can't say that I can confirm the gear effect.

[SD64 11]

So you have seen this effect personally or are there independent Tests that show the same thing? Call me doubtful but to me the gear effect or turning the ball toward the center seems to defy physics.

 

I have tried to test it myself and I like the evnroll putters. I think the grooves are the most effective for distance control.but can't say that I can confirm the gear effect.

I believe The “gearing effect” is from the variable depth grooves (not variable width). The grooves (the actual face) get deeper away from the center which imparts a directional spin towards the center of the path.

I have the ER2 since March 2017 and by far the best putter in distance and direction control of any putter I've ever had over past 25 years

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jlukes 13,661]

So you have seen this effect personally or are there independent Tests that show the same thing? Call me doubtful but to me the gear effect or turning the ball toward the center seems to defy physics.

 

I have tried to test it myself and I like the evnroll putters. I think the grooves are the most effective for distance control.but can't say that I can confirm the gear effect.

 

Like I mentioned in my review, I don't think people will be able to roll a few putts with the Evnroll and clearly see the technology.  But over time, your putting will get better - and the tech is a part of that.

 

And the videos I posted are clearly unedited - so if those aren't good enough for you, I don't know what to tell you.

 

It is amazing that consumers taking all this iron and driver tech at face value, but the moment someone shows they have something unique with putter tech, it becomes questionable. 

[jlukes 13,661]

And as far as independent testing goes - aren't you part of the MGS Most Wanted tests? The same tests the ER2 has one 2 years in a row?  Again, I don't think youl will see the technology from putt to putt - it's not like this ball is curving across the green - but over time the results and data will speak for themselves

[cnosil 17,049]

I believe The “gearing effect” is from the variable depth grooves (not variable width). The grooves (the actual face) get deeper away from the center which imparts a directional spin towards the center of the path.

I have the ER2 since March 2017 and by far the best putter in distance and direction control of any putter I've ever had over past 25 years

Guess it is my skeptic nature and wanting to understand how the depth imparts enough spin to overcome the friction that starts and end over end spin.

 

A balls direction is influenced by two things...face angle and the putters path at impact. General numbers show that face angle has about 83% and path 17%. For the test we are seeing no variation in path for any of the strikes. Since all the tests are showing the that the ball is being moved so at impact the putter is approaching square at impact. Since off center strikes have a tendency to twist the face open or closed at impact the reason for the left/right dispersion is due to this twisting. Higher moi putters would twist less at impact and would in theory be closer to the target line than a lower MOI putter. I could also potentially reduce the twist with the shaft to help with dispersion.

 

If we go with the theory that the depth of the grooves are in fact moving the ball closer to the target line by initially launching the ball left or right prior to the forward roll there is also potentially an increase in dispersion. Just as a player struggles to control where we impact the ball we also lack consistency in controlling the face angle and path. This would mean that by having the face angle open or closed with an off center hit would potentially move the ball away from the hole if in fact it does change the balls path.

 

Based on that evaluation and since 2 (path and face angle )of the 3 (contact point ) variables were kept constant, I would expect that some balls would be closer to the hole and some farther away based on the variable depth groves.

[jlukes 13,661]

Guess it is my skeptic nature and wanting to understand how the depth imparts enough spin to overcome the friction that starts and end over end spin.

 

A balls direction is influenced by two things...face angle and the putters path at impact. General numbers show that face angle has about 83% and path 17%. For the test we are seeing no variation in path for any of the strikes. Since all the tests are showing the that the ball is being moved so at impact the putter is approaching square at impact. Since off center strikes have a tendency to twist the face open or closed at impact the reason for the left/right dispersion is due to this twisting. Higher moi putters would twist less at impact and would in theory be closer to the target line than a lower MOI putter. I could also potentially reduce the twist with the shaft to help with dispersion.

 

If we go with the theory that the depth of the grooves are in fact moving the ball closer to the target line by initially launching the ball left or right prior to the forward roll there is also potentially an increase in dispersion. Just as a player struggles to control where we impact the ball we also lack consistency in controlling the face angle and path. This would mean that by having the face angle open or closed with an off center hit would potentially move the ball away from the hole if in fact it does change the balls path.

 

Based on that evaluation and since 2 (path and face angle )of the 3 (contact point ) variables were kept constant, I would expect that some balls would be closer to the hole and some farther away based on the variable depth groves.

Absolutely. Just as though bulge and roll has an impact on drives. If I close the club face and hit it on the toe, then the technology is actually going to hurt me more than it helps.

 

However, the majority of the time the technology is going to help. If that wasn't the case, the technology would not be a mainstay in every single driver, fairway and hybrid on the market.

 

Same applies here.

[cnosil 17,049]

And as far as independent testing goes - aren't you part of the MGS Most Wanted tests? The same tests the ER2 has one 2 years in a row? Again, I don't think youl will see the technology from putt to putt - it's not like this ball is curving across the green - but over time the results and data will speak for themselves

Yep, I am on of the reviewers and I fully buy into the distance control aspect. With all of the discussion on this topic lately I am just trying to wrap my mind around the concept. Guess I like to understand the claims before I accept them. This is part of the reason I like being part of the tests, I can actually see how the claims pan out head to head. And for what it's worth the evnroll wasn't my top putter.

[Sschaffer24 1,046]

Yep, I am on of the reviewers and I fully buy into the distance control aspect. With all of the discussion on this topic lately I am just trying to wrap my mind around the concept. Guess I like to understand the claims before I accept them. This is part of the reason I like being part of the tests, I can actually see how the claims pan out head to head. And for what it's worth the evnroll wasn't my top putter.

 

Without making this more convoluted, was your top putter a tech or no tech putter? I would be intrigued to hear that answer. 

[Sschaffer24 1,046]

Also, I am about 99% sure I am purchasing an ER 1.2 for the start of the season. Perfect combo for me.

[cnosil 17,049]

Without making this more convoluted, was your top putter a tech or no tech putter? I would be intrigued to hear that answer.

I think last year it would be considered no tech it was the Huntington Beach #1. This year Cleveland has introduced new grooves.

 

In all honesty my questions/comments are purely about understanding. I believe and have seen the distance control features. I will in all likelihood purchase an evnroll putter for myself. I roll Golfspy Sams whenever I go for my testing sessions.

[Sschaffer24 1,046]

I think last year it would be considered no tech it was the Huntington Beach #1. This year Cleveland has introduced new grooves.

 

In all honesty my questions/comments are purely about understanding. I believe and have seen the distance control features. I will in all likelihood purchase an evnroll putter for myself. I roll Golfspy Sams whenever I go for my testing sessions.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong at all with your questions! Asking questions is how we learn and grow. Without questions life becomes stagnant. 

 

My statement about convolution was alluding to a larger overall question that I think bears asking and answering.

 

I understand that the consensus statement provided from MGS is that generally speaking each of us would benefit in performance when comparing tech vs no tech on a putter. From a statistical standpoint, I understand that it is able to be quantified using strokes gained that comparing tech vs no tech (say evnroll vs scotty cameron) in a GENERAL sense the Evnroll will outperform the Scotty consistently and over the course of a season lead to a lower net putt count over the Scotty. I understand that.

 

My question lies in this. When you apply the individual golfer to the equation does this statement change? Do we each bring individual overriding factors that make one type of putter (tech or no tech) perform better for us than another? If that ISN'T the answer, then how can we not apply a blanket statement to the golfing population that every one of us should use the best performing tech equipped putter bar none? How could the Huntington beach #1 outperform the Evnroll for you personally, but yet statistically be the best putter for everyone?

 

I am not saying those are the statements that are being made. I am simply stating the conclusions that are easy to come to from the idea that has been presented, and trying to frame it in a way that can lead to a positive discussion.

 

Am I missing something?

[cnosil 17,049]

I don't think there is anything wrong at all with your questions! Asking questions is how we learn and grow. Without questions life becomes stagnant.

 

My statement about convolution was alluding to a larger overall question that I think bears asking and answering.

 

I understand that the consensus statement provided from MGS is that generally speaking each of us would benefit in performance when comparing tech vs no tech on a putter. From a statistical standpoint, I understand that it is able to be quantified using strokes gained that comparing tech vs no tech (say evnroll vs scotty cameron) in a GENERAL sense the Evnroll will outperform the Scotty consistently and over the course of a season lead to a lower net putt count over the Scotty. I understand that.

 

My question lies in this. When you apply the individual golfer to the equation does this statement change? Do we each bring individual overriding factors that make one type of putter (tech or no tech) perform better for us than another? If that ISN'T the answer, then how can we not apply a blanket statement to the golfing population that every one of us should use the best performing tech equipped putter bar none? How could the Huntington beach #1 outperform the Evnroll for you personally, but yet statistically be the best putter for everyone?

 

I am not saying those are the statements that are being made. I am simply stating the conclusions that are easy to come to from the idea that has been presented, and trying to frame it in a way that can lead to a positive discussion.

 

Am I missing something?

I have my thoughts related to your post, but i think it will end up being fairly long so I will respond when I get home and have a full keyboard and bigger screen to use.

[jlukes 13,661]

Do you guys think we could start a new thread to talk about this?  I think it is a fascinating and very important topic, but it might be best to get it's own thread so we don't take the Evnroll thread too far off track

[Sschaffer24 1,046]

Do you guys think we could start a new thread to talk about this?  I think it is a fascinating and very important topic, but it might be best to get it's own thread so we don't take the Evnroll thread too far off track

 

Agreed. Should have it's own place.

[jlukes 13,661]

Great clarification from Evnroll. Lines up with everything they have on their web site

 

https://twitter.com/EvnRoll/status/962267487944495104

[MGoBlue100 2,397]

So you have seen this effect personally or are there independent Tests that show the same thing? Call me doubtful but to me the gear effect or turning the ball toward the center seems to defy physics.

 

I have tried to test it myself and I like the evnroll putters. I think the grooves are the most effective for distance control.but can't say that I can confirm the gear effect.

I had a busy work week, haven't been following this at all. How did we get down THIS rabbit hole? I never took the testing results to imply that an Evnroll putter imparted spin onto the golf ball.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy