Wilson Staff Triton Still Non-Conforming?

[Kenny B]

With the change Wilson Staff will probably get 11 more yards from it, if an Irishman has anything to do with it.  

[null]

Update from the folks at GolfWeek --

 

Wilson is now saying it'll take 30-45 days to get the sole plates ready.

 

They're asking retailers to make the Triton off the floor and into the back room.

 

They're planning to relaunch the driver at the PGA show the week of January 23rd.

Absolutely brutal. So much for rushing the launch to match up with the show finale

[BIG STU]

I was actually dead on it when John posted it on the blog. I had just cleared the E-mails from my phone and was fixing to set it down when it beeped and came across. I sat there and read it several times then I called my buddy Bo-Bear. he is a club ho period and he was at the PGASS when they opened up and actually bought the first one sold retail on this beach. He thought I was messing with him because he is less computer savvy than I am. His son lives with him and is computer savvy so he is going to look up the details and contact Wilson for him.

 

Now I read the post several times BTW good reporting job there John and digested the info and thought about it on the way home and I have two questions.

 

On the "plain in shape" I am like WTH? The Nike Sumo was square and did not look plain in shape to anything I ever saw before

 

Now I understand the thing about the ball maybe not leaving the face quick enough and that brings up another can of worms. What I am going to ask next I need some opinions on especially from Adam who is a club designer and engineer. Everyone chip in if they will.

 

Say I take a conforming driver any brand and load the sole down with lead tape and then load up 10 grams on the toe wonder if it will show simular numbers to the Wilson? I wonder why this has suddenly came up quick.

Now I am not one to cheat but you could take the lighter sole plate and load it up to the weight of the non conforming one and lead tape any weight on the toe to get the same non conforming characteristics. Just some deep engineering thought. And on the Wilson only the 10.5 and the 12 are non-conforming with the weight and sole plate. I am wondering what loft has to do with the overall picture. this has also opened up another can of worms personally for me. As much as I have and always have jacked with weight using lead tape wonder if I have made some clubs in the past non-conforming?

 

Like I said before any and all opinions are welcome

[PMookie]

Well, guys, looks like it's the PERFECT club for the guy that always plays golf alone! They can't post a score for their handicap, so this is the perfect driver!

And, if they never play in tournaments, no issue there either! Hahaha!

No doubt this is a pain for Wilson, but after reading all that has to be done is swap out sole plates, I don't see it as destroying the brand... All will be good and by the time the whole country is back golfing, it'll all have passed.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

Update from the folks at GolfWeek --

 

Wilson is now saying it'll take 30-45 days to get the sole plates ready.

 

They're asking retailers to make the Triton off the floor and into the back room.

 

They're planning to relaunch the driver at the PGA show the week of January 23rd.

That's disastrous for Wilson. Having to take it off the shelves is going to kill any buzz that they had going for it. It's too bad because I think that it was a cool concept with the launch and show. We will see if they can recover.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

Sadly I was really wanting to hit a 10.5 in high fade lol

 

although I guess I wanted to carbon sole plate. Whichever is lower spin.

 

I was hitting tons of low draws with the 9* set to standard.

 

Wilson can still give me a 12g weight so we can see if the extra CT bump helps me at all

I already asked my rep to see if he can throw one in my locker for me! Lol

 

 

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[Undershooter]

I already asked my rep to see if he can throw one in my locker for me! Lol

 

 

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I'm gonna see my buddy at the shop this week to see what we can get going. Hopefully tons of yards.

 

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[MDGolfHacker]

Ouch...That's what happens when you have a reality show dictating your time schedule for product production.  I'm surprised Wilson didn't do the filming in the early spring and have the all units tested out with the USGA in time for the Christmas season rush.  What I think the good we can take from this is that Wilson is making it right by notifying the customer and replacing the parts that will make the clubs conforming at no cost to the consumer.  I'm sure they will learn from this and not let it happen again.

 

MDGolfHacker

[MDGolfHacker]

That's disastrous for Wilson. Having to take it off the shelves is going to kill any buzz that they had going for it. It's too bad because I think that it was a cool concept with the launch and show. We will see if they can recover.

 

 

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I'm sure marketing will put a spin on it...maybe something like "Wilson Triton...too hot to sell at christmas time..."  LOL

 

MDGolfHacker

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Couple of more tidbits...

 

1. The only 9* head ruled conforming is the one Streelman, and very likely Barnes, will be putting into play in early January.  Retail versions are non-conforming and will need the new sole plate. 

 

2. The Plain in Sight deal has to do with what the USGA classified as a dual cavity. Apparently the sole plate stuck out too much and created what the USGA calls a dual cavity. Wilson agreed that it wasn't a dual cavity, but the USGA disagreed, hence the shaving of a couple of millimeters. In basketball terms, that's a ticky-tack foul, at best.  

 

Frank Thomas - the USGA official who was a judge on the program - did not believe the sole plate would be a problem and helped Wilson argue its case before the USGA. 

 

3. Golf Digest reported this morning, and I'm trying to confirm, that the CT in the offending configuration (12 gram weight in the toe, 6 gram weights in the heel and back with the heavier Titanium sole plate) exceeded the limits by 1 microsecond - or one millionth of a second.  The CT limit is 257 microseconds (239 plus a tolerance of 18), and the Triton apparently measured at 258.  This configuration would have resulted in a swing weight in the E6 range, meaning that configuration would have been for a power-lifter who fights a severe hook.

 

But...rules are rules.  The Plain in Sight issue is debatable, maybe even BS -- but Wilson should have tested that configuration, either that or not list it as an option.  That one's on them....over 1 freaking microsecond.

 

Big picture- the driver is non-conforming, but it's pretty minor stuff that's easily fixable. It's a pain and embarrassing, and it will cost Wilson some money, but it's hard to call the whole thing a failure. It's still a pretty darned good driver and nothing about what's non-conforming has any affect on the performance any of us would ever experience (1 microsecond!!!!!).

 

Have had some guys commenting on the blog that this is what you get when you farm R&D out to amateurs. If you followed the show you know that's not the case. The contestants came in with ideas, and then worked with Wilson's R&D to finalize the product - it certainly wasn't these guys off by themselves coming with a final product, but, as is often the case in today's world, things like details, facts and reality get lost in the rush to judgment. 

 

I'll give Wilson a ton of credit for breaking the mold for product launches - they've created more buzz for Wilson Staff than I can remember and the reality is, it's not your mistakes that define you, it's how you handle those mistakes. Wilson has always been pretty candid with me about their missteps, and has taken ownership of them.  This is no different. It's a misstep, and will probably undermine some of the momentum the brand earned during DVD, but in a few weeks, once the fixes have been made, it'll be a footnote.  

[Golfspy_CG2]

I agree Barbs about people commenting on things they don't know about (R&D) as a matter of fact while watching the show, I wondered if Wilson R&D had gotten too involved.  By that I mean will the final product (again I was thinking this 3 or 4 episodes in, well before he final) resemble anything like the contestants original; design, or will WS R&D had to make so many adjustments to make it, work, look good and be compliant (ooops) 

 

I still think it's  a big bump in the road that Wilson would certainly rather not have had to deal with, and i think it will hurt brand image in some minds.  But in the end, interest in the driver will probably still be there by the die hard golf fan.

 

Also thanks for the comments on Frank Thomas, I know myself and a lot of people were wondering how this could have happened with him being there to catch everything conforming related.  But it sounds like the non conforming parts were so tedious that even he didn't think it was an issue. 

[Rtracymog]

Couple of more tidbits...

 

1. The only 9* head ruled conforming is the one Streelman, and very likely Barnes, will be putting into play in early January. Retail versions are non-conforming and will need the new sole plate.

 

2. The Plain in Sight deal has to do with what the USGA classified as a dual cavity. Apparently the sole plate stuck out too much and created what the USGA calls a dual cavity. Wilson agreed that it wasn't a dual cavity, but the USGA disagreed, hence the shaving of a couple of millimeters. In basketball terms, that's a ticky-tack foul, at best.

 

Frank Thomas - the USGA official who was a judge on the program - did not believe the sole plate would be a problem and helped Wilson argue its case before the USGA.

 

3. Golf Digest reported this morning, and I'm trying to confirm, that the CT in the offending configuration (12 gram weight in the toe, 6 gram weights in the heel and back with the heavier Titanium sole plate) exceeded the limits by 1 microsecond - or one millionth of a second. The CT limit is 257 microseconds (239 plus a tolerance of 18), and the Triton apparently measured at 258. This configuration would have resulted in a swing weight in the E6 range, meaning that configuration would have been for a power-lifter who fights a severe hook.

 

But...rules are rules. The Plain in Sight issue is debatable, maybe even BS -- but Wilson should have tested that configuration, either that or not list it as an option. That one's on them....over 1 freaking microsecond.

 

Big picture- the driver is non-conforming, but it's pretty minor stuff that's easily fixable. It's a pain and embarrassing, and it will cost Wilson some money, but it's hard to call the whole thing a failure. It's still a pretty darned good driver and nothing about what's non-conforming has any affect on the performance any of us would ever experience (1 microsecond!!!!!).

 

Have had some guys commenting on the blog that this is what you get when you farm R&D out to amateurs. If you followed the show you know that's not the case. The contestants came in with ideas, and then worked with Wilson's R&D to finalize the product - it certainly wasn't these guys off by themselves coming with a final product, but, as is often the case in today's world, things like details, facts and reality get lost in the rush to judgment.

 

I'll give Wilson a ton of credit for breaking the mold for product launches - they've created more buzz for Wilson Staff than I can remember and the reality is, it's not your mistakes that define you, it's how you handle those mistakes. Wilson has always been pretty candid with me about their missteps, and has taken ownership of them. This is no different. It's a misstep, and will probably undermine some of the momentum the brand earned during DVD, but in a few weeks, once the fixes have been made, it'll be a footnote.

This is great, detailed info! It's a small consolation that the issues weren't large oversights by Wilson.

I am a little surprised that Frank Thomas, who was constantly harping on the USGA legality of ideas, didn't pick up on this. I guess the argument over a "dual cavity" can be somewhat of a difference of opinion.

So if that is the only configuration that is illegal, why are they getting rid of the 12 gram weight altogether? Any thoughts besides the possibility of selling an illegal driver?

 

 

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[MDGolfHacker]

I agree Barbs about people commenting on things they don't know about (R&D) as a matter of fact while watching the show, I wondered if Wilson R&D had gotten too involved. By that I mean will the final product (again I was thinking this 3 or 4 episodes in, well before he final) resemble anything like the contestants original; design, or will WS R&D had to make so many adjustments to make it, work, look good and be compliant (ooops)

 

I still think it's a big bump in the road that Wilson would certainly rather not have had to deal with, and i think it will hurt brand image in some minds. But in the end, interest in the driver will probably still be there by the die hard golf fan.

 

Also thanks for the comments on Frank Thomas, I know myself and a lot of people were wondering how this could have happened with him being there to catch everything conforming related. But it sounds like the non conforming parts were so tedious that even he didn't think it was an issue.

I only watched a few episodes, but rarely do prototypes look the same as the final product for good or bad I still think if they didn't have it on such a tight schedule, then they could of found out about the issues and fixed it prior to launch. Still, as I said earlier, they are willing to address the issue so that still keeps them in my good graces. Besides, i like what Wilson has been putting out recently so this is really a minor bump for them.

 

 

MDGolfHacker

[null]

This was definitely not an R&D issue and 100% a marketing issue. Marketing wanted them to push the boundaries of the release date to be asked close to the finale of the show as possible..

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

The guys from GolfWeek have been all over this from the get go -- good reporting on their part.

 

Here's a visual of the sole plate issue, and some good detail on what Wilson is doing to make sure the driver conforms...

 

[fozcycle]

Thanks John, it appears those who already have the driver will get a dozen golfballs in exchange for the 12 gram weight....so how long will it take for Wilson to get conforming sole plates out to the dealers?  My Pro Shop has 12 and they have 12 more at their other golf course recently reopened.

[null]

Thanks John, it appears those who already have the driver will get a dozen golfballs in exchange for the 12 gram weight....so how long will it take for Wilson to get conforming sole plates out to the dealers? My Pro Shop has 12 and they have 12 more at their other golf course recently reopened.

Per an earlier post they said 30 to 45 days for Wilson to get the new sole plates

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Per an earlier post they said 30 to 45 days for Wilson to get the new sole plates

 

 

What he said -- they're planning a major marketing relaunch in the middle of January, so the plates will need to be ready by then. Haven't heard back from Wilson regarding the now absent 12 gram weight, and what that will do to the possible adjustment options.  

[Kenny B]

What he said -- they're planning a major marketing relaunch in the middle of January, so the plates will need to be ready by then. Haven't heard back from Wilson regarding the now absent 12 gram weight, and what that will do to the possible adjustment options.  

Maybe they could make it 11 grams?  

[metamurph]

Still I applaud them for pushing the envelope. If you really are trying to innovate whether it is just in creating market buzz and face it they needed the adrenaline you are going to have failure otherwise you are just walking the safe well worn path. Which would have produced yet another same thing we've always seen welcome to the party tmade callaway ping already own have fun fitting for next with cobra and touredge. They need to make conforming plates and ship them to stores and all current customers and move forward. Turn the negative into positive as much as they can we are pushing limits of innovation and time to market but we always have your back.

 

 

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[metamurph]

And fortunately a large part of the golfing US is frozen tundra currently

 

 

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[jayjay0808]

They are lucky this is happening in the winter and not the spring or summer. could you imagine amateur players having to take these out of their bags during tournament season. 

[Thatginger96]

The shop at my work got some demos of these in and we had to take them off the floor since they didn't get approved. There is now more interest in them than before. All these golfers want those extra "illegal yards". Guess this situation is similar to the old Nike driver problem where some weren't conforming.

 

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[Kenny B]

The shop at my work got some demos of these in and we had to take them off the floor since they didn't get approved. There is now more interest in them than before. All these golfers want those extra "illegal yards". Guess this situation is similar to the old Nike driver problem where some weren't conforming.

 

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There is certainly a market for those!!  I suppose that the refit of the club will be significantly different from the non-conforming club so people will know which club is being used.  Anytime someone is playing the Triton, you can bet that it will be checked!

[BigtazzGolf]

Maybe it's been said, but what are the differences in the 2 clubs as far as how it affects the golf ball on impact?

I'm curious how the 2 perform side by side and if there are any stats to see.

 

Tazz

 

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@bigtazzGOLF on Twitter

[fozcycle]

The sole is 1 mm too long and the 12 GM weight must be removed as it allows the ball to stay on the club face longer than allowed. The fix is new sole plates and you will get a dozen Duos free for turning in the 12 gram weight.

 

 

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[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Maybe it's been said, but what are the differences in the 2 clubs as far as how it affects the golf ball on impact?

I'm curious how the 2 perform side by side and if there are any stats to see.

 

Tazz

 

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@bigtazzGOLF on Twitter

 

It's my guess that not a man, women or child alive today could tell, see or feel the difference. The plain in sight thing has no bearing whatsoever on performance, and the offending setup with the 12 gram weight exceeded the USGA CT limit by 1 microsecond - or 1 one millionth of a second.  

[AH1980MN]

I don't want to sound stupid, but what is the significance of "DVD"?

[EricM]

I should start by saying that I have a soft spot for Wilson.  I have met Michael Vrska, Tim Clarke and members of their team, and they are smart, friendly and passionate about their products.  They are making some extremely good equipment in recent years.

 

However, this has been an embarrassing failure.

 

1.  The show was not as good as it could have been.  While the concept was interesting, I lost interest after the first two episodes dragged on with ridiculous concepts that had zero chance of seeing the light of day.  I watched sparingly for the rest of the season until the next to last episode, which was far and away the best, with athletes hitting the drivers in Tahoe.  The finale was an hour long slog of families and contestants saying "Boy, I sure hope this design wins.  That money sure would mean a lot." followed by them announcing the winning design.  At no time in the final 2 episodes did they offer a rationale for why someone's design wasn't chosen.  Just "Sorry, you're out."  Long story short, the show was hard to watch, despite its many merits.

 

2.  The driver being released before passing muster with the USGA is inexcusable.  They could have submitted all of the prototypes for evaluation once they reached that stage without ruining the ending.  They could have done any number of things.  However, what they did was release a driver with their fingers crossed, and the USGA seemed excited to burn them for it.  They may not recover from this.  I hope they do, but they may not.  They surely will have trouble recovering their investment directly through sales of the Triton, though all the ball commercials during the show might result in an increase in sales (by the way, since I'm on the subject of balls, why not tell us what's up with the FG Tour just disappearing?).

 

I want a Triton.  I don't want to pay $450, but I would definitely consider this driver.  However, the market is poised to wash away all the buzz with tons of new releases coming up without the spectre of USGA non-conformity hanging over their heads.  As much as I want this to be a home run, it's starting to look like a double off the wall where the guy gets thrown out going for a triple.

[EricM]

I don't want to sound stupid, but what is the significance of "DVD"?

 

Driver vs. Driver