Jump to content

Fitting vs. Innovation


cnosil
 Share

Recommended Posts

Reading one of the theads about finding your unicorn club someone made the post that how do you know that new /non released clubs won't be better for you.   With manufacturers releasing clubs throughout the year, how long before new club innovation makes your clubs obsolete?  Is next years club significantly better than this years so you should wait.   Or does it take 2 or 3 or even more years for you to see benefit from a club change?  What do you think?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting thought.

The way I look at it is this: fitting will benefit your game, but only talent will make it work. Innovation in clubs is and has been a great help for many golfers, but where it differs is how that tech is applied.

 

Think of it this way - fitting is a method of helping you to best find the centre of the club face. Innovation is for when you don't find the centre of the club face. The "help" it gives is to make that mishit a little less punishing. If you revert back to the talent theory, then you probably need less innovation to help you out, because your misses are less frequent. It doesn't make your equipment any less relevant or obsolete.

 

Despite the manufacturers best efforts, has the humble golf club really evolved that much? It's still a club.

If you hit it fat, you will still hit it fat. If you hook or slice, you will still hook or slice. If you completely miss the ball, you will surprise surprise still miss the ball. The only thing that will stop this happening is one thing - talent (or ability in other words). Innovation won't prevent this from happening - talent will.

 

Where fitting comes into this equation is quite simple - it makes the chance of having a mishit less likely regardless of talent. Innovation depends on your perspective - if you're a struggling high handicapper you think innovation is your friend. If you're a tour pro with bladed irons, you might think innovation passed you by. Either way, I've yet to see a significant advance in technology or innovation that can't be rendered useless by a hack trying to hit a miracle shot. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

... I wrote a review about the original AP2's. When Titleist introduced the 2nd generation at the PGA Show they said there is no need to upgrade as the changes were small. However, with the 3rd generation they said a upgrade is worthwhile unless you were satisfied with the performance of the originals. It was pretty refreshing to hear from Marketing Directors whose job it is to sell new product that an upgrade is over kill. They did say their intent is to get a customer for life and being honest about their equipment is one of the ways to accomplish that goal. And of course your talent level enters into the equation. Making the soles a little more turf friendly in the short tons after feedback from the pro's can make a difference to the better player, but a high index player that basically picks the ball will not benefit from the changes. 

 

... Same can be said for many of the OEM's that don't actually come out and say the new model isn't worth an upgrade but is pretty obvious none the less. Like the Fly Z. Cobra engineers were very proud of this driver and saw no need to upgrade to the F6 unless you needed the reduced spin in the weight forward position. But the F7 with a completely different Textron crown might certainly be worth upgrading. 

... I will also add after touring the Tour Edge facility, I saw several years of fairway woods in the que for future release. They admitted the next two iterations were tweaks of the current model, but the fairway wood 3 years out was a completely different model utilizing different technologies that they were still testing and refining. 

  • Like 5

Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-Pw MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience, fairway woods have probably seen the biggest jump in advancements over the last several years while I feel irons have been more incremental.  

 

I think fittings are a good idea every now and then, but really need to be outdoors and off grass if possible.  While I like fittings to give me a baseline on what works best for me, I then take that information and move forward with later releases to see if any jump in performance makes it worth changing.  

 

The best thing a fitting did for me is it eliminated the curiosity and the desire to change clubs all the time to find out what was ideal and made me focus more on my swing.  

  • Like 3

WIT  :titelist-small: Sta Dry Bag:

 

Driver:       :taylormade-small: '17 M2

 

Woods:     :taylormade-small: M2 3W and 5W

 

Hybrids:   :callaway-logo-1: Apex 3h and 5h  

Irons:          :mizuno-small:   MP 18 MMC

 

Wedges:   :callaway-logo-1: MD PM Grind, 56* and 60*

Putter:      :scotty-cameron-1: California Sonoma

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again lots of great replies already -

 

I would say that unless your equipment is over 5 years old or its not fitted at all that it's far better to invest in lessons (even for a 6) than for new equipment.  Your teacher would be able to tell you in time if he felt that you needed new equipment.

 

Sometimes age is a factor.  In the last 10 years I've gone from being a 50 year old who clearly needed a stiffer flex (as opposed to a 40 year old who needed an x flex) to being a 60 year old who does not.  I'm shorter with the driver but have maintained my iron distances by getting stronger lofts and using hybrids instead of long irons - I hit the same iron or equivalent as I did 10 to 15 years ago even though my swing speed and shaft flex is weaker.

 

Again though your teacher would know if there were an issue with your equipment and then it would be time to see the fitter for a new set.

  • Like 3

Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm enjoying this topic.

Until Wilson came out with their Triton I haven't seen much new true innovation in drivers. Everything else has a slider, adjustable hosel, and other forms of movable weights. I don't pay much attention to irons these days. I purchased a set of custom fit/built irons back in Aug. '14 and don't see myself changing for many more years. I don't know the USGA rules for iron design but I understand drivers are maxed out. Meaning they are already living in a box of USGA design specifications and they can't get out. All that can be done is reshape the head, new paint schemes, movable weights or weighting systems, little slots, "speed channels", and decals. I plan to again use my ancient 2014 TM SLDR again this season. Oddly enough it's a Stock OTR club and it works beautifully. Pure luck.

 

A proper fitting is more important I believe than chasing the latest and greatest. I personally would prefer to take a guy with an little older set of irons and see if we could have his clubs "tweaked" some to better fit him as opposed to buying a new set of irons. That and some basic lessons. New clubs later.

  • Like 1

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is all just opinion, but it seems to me that we've reached a point where there are a certain set of profiles for pretty much every club, be it a putter or a driver. And certain profiles of certain clubs would best martch certain players w certain swing qualities and/or preferences. Just for example, the cog placement of the driver, be it low/forward, high/forward, low/back, or high back. Maybe within that list, head shape to match a player's eye, and the remaining specs such as lie, fa, or what have you. Point is, what is needed to know is known, and the tough part should just be swinging the varying profiles and discovering which works best for you, at this time in one's golf/swing evolution.

 

What would be a breakthrough is if all the manufacturers standardized such profiles, and then clearly identified them to assist the golfer in picking them out. Develop a certain line/profile, and then keep it... Nothing is really going to change beyond this. Dont change lines or profiles, but rather fill out the product line to have a model for each profile... And then keep them as is, for years and years and years. Educate the golfer on these standard types of profiles, and then actually try helping them match to their particular needs. That would be 'revolutionary', if you will.

 

Only reason I comment is that bought a newer driver a couple of years ago w all the new tech in materials, construction and design... Tell ya what, when I pure my 983, it goes farther. And the new one (w the supposedly huge sweet spot that increases ball speeds across the entire face), it isnt that much more forgiving, in actuality. And it doesnt go as far when nutted. Maybe that is a match issue between the head/shaft/swing? So i guess my vote would be that fitting matters more than anything 'new' that is claimed to have been developed. And that club manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to market anything anymore, and should be forced to develop proper, standardized profiles, and actually help golfers out.

 

All just subjective opinion. And yeah, think im going to play the 983 next year, crazy right?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clubs that are fit to your swing are of course ideal.  The big thing about amateurs is that we mishit the ball and this, IMO,  is where innovation helps us.  The rules have maxed out size and COR,  but I want ultimately , give me a forgiving club that minimizes the penalty for an off center hit.  I want to hit the same distance with a toe hit as a I do with a center hit.  

 

 I personally think that seeing improvement from newer clubs is a 3 to 5 year cycle.  For me improvement is a measurement over time and not just how well I hit a bucket of balls.   

 

Club adjustability in my mind is not a performance tool;  it is a fitting tool.   It makes it easier for a fitter to fine tune the club to your swing. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My answer to this kind of goes back to Henrik Stenson again. That man carries equipment that is older than most clubs in the MGS members bags and still hits it further than a huge percentage of our population. To me, that's clear evidence that fitting, feel, confidence and history DO play a role in the clubs to a similar degree that the technology does.

 

We have to keep in mind that first and foremost the information we have about new clubs are advertisements and press releases. The wording is meticulously thought out to deliver a specific message. Usually the claims are based off of one set of controlled variables. While there may be more ball speed, more weights, more adjustments, more everything over the next five years, how much further can I expect to hit a driver that comes out in 2017 over my 917D3? What, maybe 5 yards from technology alone? 10 at most?

 

Would I pay a fitting fee, $500 for the new driver and that's BEFORE an aftermarket shaft (which I would probably have to have to have it optimally fit, my HZRDOUS shafts were $425 a piece) for a hypothetical 10 yards? No, I wouldn't.

 

Just my two cents.

  • Like 3

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My answer to this kind of goes back to Henrik Stenson again. That man carries equipment that is older than most clubs in the MGS members bags and still hits it further than a huge percentage of our population. To me, that's clear evidence that fitting, feel, confidence and history DO play a role in the clubs to a similar degree that the technology does.

 

We have to keep in mind that first and foremost the information we have about new clubs are advertisements and press releases. The wording is meticulously thought out to deliver a specific message. Usually the claims are based off of one set of controlled variables. While there may be more ball speed, more weights, more adjustments, more everything over the next five years, how much further can I expect to hit a driver that comes out in 2017 over my 917D3? What, maybe 5 yards from technology alone? 10 at most?

 

Would I pay a fitting fee, $500 for the new driver and that's BEFORE an aftermarket shaft (which I would probably have to have to have it optimally fit, my HZRDOUS shafts were $425 a piece) for a hypothetical 10 yards? No, I wouldn't.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

​... As usual with golf topics, the answer isn't just cut and dried. Trying to play golf with ill fitting equipment just makes the game harder, regardless of the technology involved. The Pro's usually don't take more than two swings, 3 max, when demoing new shafts because if they are not getting the flight or distance they are accustomed to, they will begin to manipulate their swings to achieve that flight and distance. True for average golfers but to a much lessor degree. 

 

... I hit the Rogue Silver at the PGA Show and absolutely loved the feel and performance in the G Driver I was demoing. So I picked up a Rogue Silver 125 and put it in my Fly Z. Didn't produce my normal trajectory and I found myself swinging harder than normal, usually a disaster waiting to happen. I went to a Rogue Black 110 and everything fell into place, and in fact combined with the Fly Z I had my best driving season ever. 

 

... Shawn, I am a little different than you when it comes to equipment. I can't wait to play the F7 with the textron crown because "TeXteme Carbon Fiber yields a 20% lighter crown allowing more weight to be distributed lowered and deeper into the club head for a lower CG and extreme distance and forgiveness". What are the chances that this addresses the very two things I look for in a driver, extreme distance and forgiveness!!! Although I am sad to see the Speed Channel from the Fly Z/F6 that Cobra says is "an engineered channel around the perimeter of the face maximizes thickness and increases ball seeds across the face for incredible distance" is no longer offered in the F7. (I hope the sarcasm is apparent)

 

... I do think most of us on a golf forum, especially MyGolfSpy, understands marketing is a necessary evil. I pay very close attention to all the OEM technology advances and in the case of the Speed Channel I thought Cobra was onto something because the Fly Z is the most accurate and consistently longest driver I have ever played, mostly due to slight miss hits traveling almost as far as center hits. But evidently like every other driver, the Fly Z just has a combination of technology that fits my swing best and it was't the Speed Channel that made all the difference. Marketing claims of distance or accuracy are just ignored because every single club has some form of it. But many of us are intrigued by advances in technology and are willing to try something new if we think there is a combination of feel/sound/performance that will be an improvement over our current model. And a select few, we happy few, just love trying out new stuff even though we know the chances of it resulting in increased performance is slim to none. If I were as smart as I know I should be, I would still be playing my original Fly Z, Amp Forged irons and Scratch wedges. At least I have only changed my putter twice in 40 years. 

  • Like 1

Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-Pw MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As the OP of the Unicorn topic, this obviously holds a lot of interest for me. I think some of this depends on how your swing changes over time.

 

Over the last year I have worked really hard on my swing and fitness. Both of these things have led to dramatic swing speed increases that made the clubs I had not fit me quite as well, mostly due to the shaft profile not fitting me. I was actually fit to some different irons a year ago and hit them well at first but found myself hitting not liking the ball flight I was getting with them after my swing speed increased. Several months later I found a combination of heads and shafts that gave me exactly what I was looking for and have played the same set for the last 5 months and gotten better and better with them over time. I now hope to stick with them for a least a few years so I can keep at least that part of my game consistent.

 

As I talked about in the other topic, I have been through a lot of drivers and shafts trying to find that Unicorn and feel like I have something that works better for me than anything out there. That being said I will change to the Callaway EPIC next month if it gives me the promise better ball speeds with the same spin numbers I'm getting now.

 

I have two hybrids that were game changers for me and that I hit better than any club I've ever had. These are my Stenson clubs and I see no reason to change these out unless they break.

 

If you hit your clubs well and your swing doesn't really change then it makes less sense to change. Improving your score should be the main reason.

 

The biggest issue in all of this is that I could have done it a lot quicker, cheaper and easier if I would have gotten fitted. It's definitely the best route if you can find the place to do it.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 1

Titleist TS3 9.5* w/Accra TZ5 65 X-Stiff
Titleist TS3 15* w/Fujikura Ventus 7X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 20* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 23* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Titleist 718 CB 5 iron w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist 718 MB 6-PW w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist SM7 Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Bettinardi Queen B 10 34.5"
Titleist Pro V1 or Snell MTB-X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sarcasm is apparent.  :)

 

The only point I was making is this...

 

With the F7 and it's "20% lighter crown that allows weight to be transferred lower and further back in the clubhead to change forgiveness and spin" what is statement relative to? What driver are they making that claim against? Is it the F6? Are we sure of that? Could it be a driver that is a few seasons old? Even if it is their most recent model, what does that 20% actually buy someone? At some point we reach diminishing returns. I totally understand wanting to try new things and the new toy factor (hey, we all work hard and we deserve to reward ourselves. If a guy kills himself at the office all week and wants a new putter? Have at it man!) I just am of the belief that while a few extra yards are nice, what am I willing to pay for that on a reoccurring basis?

 

If you look at golf clubs as a constantly evolving product that on a yearly basis yields additional yards and performance over the previous product that was offered, then where is the justification for ever playing a club for more than one release cycle? My question is at what point is taking that dive worth $500 (more or less depending on setup). Does that extend to every club in the bag? If it does, what we are gaining from performance are we sacrificing the same gains back to the course due to lack of confidence, history or feel?

 

Perfect example. I just got new clubs. I played a few rounds with them, and had no clue what my yardages were. I knew I hit it further. I also knew I was more consistent. These clubs outperform my Hogan's all day long, but guess what? Every par 3 I had no clue what to do. I don't know my misses yet, and I sure don't know how to hit a 3/4 shot a full shot, punch shot, etc. and then how the ball will react to those swings. I knew that with my Hogans. Even though I have a much higher performance level with these, I was shooting within the same score as my Hogans my first few times out.

 

I fully expect that to change by the time that I build up that knowledge base. But if we are constantly rebuilding that with new clubs, aren't we always playing at 85%? Would playing at 100% with something that nets you 5 less yards actually lower your scores? I believe so.

 

There ARE technology jumps. When those hit, it's unavoidable to make a change. Hell, the GBB Epic MAY do that for golf. That remains to be seen. But if it gives me 300 less RPM's of spin, 1 degree better launch angle and 1 more MPH of ballspeed all netting in a few yards additional yardage, is it really worth the move? Nope, because the same thing will happen next year, and the year after that and so on.

 

Pick your shots and upgrade when there is a legitimate cost/performance benefit. Other than that we're doing it for a shiny new toy, which is fine! As I said, we deserve it. I just choose to make my purchases solely from performance if I can.

  • Like 3

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... I feel there are 3 types of golfers when it comes to equipment. 

1. The guy like you that only makes changes when there is an obvious upgrade in performance. These players tend to get the best out of their equipment and it gives them the best opportunity to score over time. 

2. The guy that thinks the next best thing is his next best thing and chases performance by buying the newest and greatest. F6 will produce better scores and increased performance over the Fly Z and the F7 will produce better scores and increased performance over the F6 and the ... 

 

3. The guy like me that views equipment as a hobby and spends money on that hobby with no real thoughts of performance increase or better scores. Different feel, different look or the knowledge of how many different shafts/heads perform and as you said just enjoying a shiny new toy. If there is a boost in performance, that is simply icing on the cake and honestly unexpected. Lots of type 3's on golf equipment forums. 

  • Like 3

Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-Pw MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I definitely agree with that. 

 

Honestly there's nothing wrong with being any of the three, we all have our reasons for what decisions we make.

 

Great way to put that man!

  • Like 3

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My answer to this kind of goes back to Henrik Stenson again. That man carries equipment that is older than most clubs in the MGS members bags and still hits it further than a huge percentage of our population. To me, that's clear evidence that fitting, feel, confidence and history DO play a role in the clubs to a similar degree that the technology does.

 

We have to keep in mind that first and foremost the information we have about new clubs are advertisements and press releases. The wording is meticulously thought out to deliver a specific message. Usually the claims are based off of one set of controlled variables. While there may be more ball speed, more weights, more adjustments, more everything over the next five years, how much further can I expect to hit a driver that comes out in 2017 over my 917D3? What, maybe 5 yards from technology alone? 10 at most?

 

Would I pay a fitting fee, $500 for the new driver and that's BEFORE an aftermarket shaft (which I would probably have to have to have it optimally fit, my HZRDOUS shafts were $425 a piece) for a hypothetical 10 yards? No, I wouldn't.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

I think this is beautifully worded and nails my opinion on the subject, as well.

 

I've been through a few professional fittings over the last few years and it has been interesting to observe what some fitters deem to be "optimal" versus what I look for in my equipment.  For me, I want accuracy, forgiveness and good feel from my equipment.  I got fit for my Srixon irons and the KBS shafts and I'm loving them.  Do I care if there's another brand that can help me get 20 more yards from my 6-iron?  Nope, because that's not what I'm chasing.  I've played with guys who would hit a 7-iron when I hit an 8-iron but they were dead on accurate and I missed the green as I snickered at me being "longer" with my irons.  If you've got the optimal set for your game then spend time working on a repeatable and consistent swing and you can be deadly on the golf course.

 

As for drivers, I think the same philosophy applies.  I've got buddies who play drivers that are 5 years old but they hammer them down the middle of the fairway.  How can this be when the Callaway and Taylormade's of the world promise that we'll all be smoking drives 300+ yards with the latest and greatest driver?  Because they got fit into something that is optimal for them and they spent time working on their swing mechanics.  I've also handed my M2 to friends with old drivers that were bought off the shelf and they flew the ball 20 yards further than with their current gamer.

 

Bottom line - get fit by a quality fitter (I suggest Club Champion personally) and get fit into equipment that will give you confidence and performs optimally for YOUR game and what you want from it.  Then stop pissing away money on the latest and greatest gear and invest that money into developing your game with a quality teaching professional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sarcasm is apparent.  :)

 

The only point I was making is this...

 

With the F7 and it's "20% lighter crown that allows weight to be transferred lower and further back in the clubhead to change forgiveness and spin" what is statement relative to? What driver are they making that claim against? Is it the F6? Are we sure of that? Could it be a driver that is a few seasons old? Even if it is their most recent model, what does that 20% actually buy someone? At some point we reach diminishing returns. I totally understand wanting to try new things and the new toy factor (hey, we all work hard and we deserve to reward ourselves. If a guy kills himself at the office all week and wants a new putter? Have at it man!) I just am of the belief that while a few extra yards are nice, what am I willing to pay for that on a reoccurring basis?

 

If you look at golf clubs as a constantly evolving product that on a yearly basis yields additional yards and performance over the previous product that was offered, then where is the justification for ever playing a club for more than one release cycle? My question is at what point is taking that dive worth $500 (more or less depending on setup). Does that extend to every club in the bag? If it does, what we are gaining from performance are we sacrificing the same gains back to the course due to lack of confidence, history or feel?

 

Perfect example. I just got new clubs. I played a few rounds with them, and had no clue what my yardages were. I knew I hit it further. I also knew I was more consistent. These clubs outperform my Hogan's all day long, but guess what? Every par 3 I had no clue what to do. I don't know my misses yet, and I sure don't know how to hit a 3/4 shot a full shot, punch shot, etc. and then how the ball will react to those swings. I knew that with my Hogans. Even though I have a much higher performance level with these, I was shooting within the same score as my Hogans my first few times out.

 

I fully expect that to change by the time that I build up that knowledge base. But if we are constantly rebuilding that with new clubs, aren't we always playing at 85%? Would playing at 100% with something that nets you 5 less yards actually lower your scores? I believe so.

 

There ARE technology jumps. When those hit, it's unavoidable to make a change. Hell, the GBB Epic MAY do that for golf. That remains to be seen. But if it gives me 300 less RPM's of spin, 1 degree better launch angle and 1 more MPH of ballspeed all netting in a few yards additional yardage, is it really worth the move? Nope, because the same thing will happen next year, and the year after that and so on.

 

Pick your shots and upgrade when there is a legitimate cost/performance benefit. Other than that we're doing it for a shiny new toy, which is fine! As I said, we deserve it. I just choose to make my purchases solely from performance if I can.

Really good post, Shawn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was going to get the new 917 driver. No reason, other than I wanted a new toy. I have since decided that was a dumb thing to do. I hit my 913 just fine. I seriously doubt I would notice/see any difference if I moved to the 917.

 

So...... I've decided that, after many years of using the Rife Aussie putter, I'm going to research and hit....if possible, the new EVN Roll putter. I'm not a good putter. I need some help in that area...lol. Even if this putter doesn't fix my putting problem (I know it won't....without a lot more practice), I think it may be more suited to my putting stroke (staright back and through) than the rather heavily toe hung Aussie. We'll see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the compliment snb. (PLAYOFFS BABY! 😀)

 

Consider this, since you're stepping into the segment of more expensive putters, I would HIGHLY recommend checking out the Edel Golf fitting system. I game one of their putters and it's seriously insane. It's not a magic stick, but you can immediately feel after you've been fit for one of these the club no longer fighting you. You're able to get up there and naturally putt. That sounds like a simple idea (or maybe even like something you're already doing) but I seriously suggest researching their process and methodology. If you have a fitter around you do yourself the favor of giving it a test run. Their stuff is nuts.

 

That being said, thank you as well Orange for the same kind words. All I have is my perspective to share, but I really think when approached from the aspect of logic alone we can make some pretty concrete decisions on what makes sense.

  • Like 2

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, just as a side note I'm not familiar with the 913, it very well may give you very similar performance, but I will say this 917 is sick. I have a LOT of money invested in it (preordered driver, aftermarket shaft, full weight kit) so it's not going anywhere anytime soon, but man does this thing just blow my SLDR/G30 LS Tec out of the water. For me anyway.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...