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Drivers: Stock vs Premium shafts...your experiences


JudgeSmails

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If I buy a driver I'll swap the shaft to an after market shaft that suits me and my game.

I think the stock shafts are good but not for everyone or every swing.

Main reason I went to an aftermarket shaft was to help lower my spin and increase my accuracy with my tee shot. And for me it did help.

Good luck

 

Tazz

 

I know this is kind of a dumb question however can a shaft help with side spin?  I know you can alter flight lower/higher with the proper shaft however it would be cool if a shaft could help even a little bit with accuracy.

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I know this is kind of a dumb question however can a shaft help with side spin? I know you can alter flight lower/higher with the proper shaft however it would be cool if a shaft could help even a little bit with accuracy.

Doubt it.

Think that is more of an indian thing instead of the arrow or bow.

 

Tazz

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Ole gray makes an excellent point. To do a proper shaft fitting you need a facility that has tons of shafts to test. Unfortunately most pro-shops deal with one or two brands such as Titlist or TaylorMade and you are limited by the demo shafts that come with those. I have a friend who went on a min-tour a few years ago and was fortunate enough to have a full fitting for shafts. He spent 3 hours doing a driver fitting and went through about 40-45 different shafts and tested them on a launch monitor. He told me as he went through the process there was one shaft that finally clicked for him. It was a "Holy cr*p this is MY shaft!!". He knew instantly. Of course he was semi-pro with a plus handicap but the point I am making is to get THAT shaft for YOU, you have to spend time, effort and money thus the majority of us settle for stock shafts even if a manufacturer offers other options as we have no clue what is right for us even if the shaft is a uptick for free. I was fortunate enough last year to have a full fitting and found the shaft for my swing but like all of us here wonder if there is something else out there that will improve on what I have. That is why we lurk out on this site - to find that nugget of gold someone else dug up.

Ole gray - keep digging and when you get fitted it will be worth it.

 

I'm looking for that big chunk of gold! lol  Will do partner ;)

 

I've been looking at this place for a fitting: 

 

http://www.georgiagolfcenter.com/club-fitting/

 

Anyone in Georgia every had any experience with these folks?

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
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LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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A couple years ago, I was fit into the SLDR with a premium shaft at Club Champion and it made a world of difference from the stock shaft. One of my favorite drivers ever. Now I'm playing the stock shaft in the XR16 and love it as well. So in my experience, premium shafts can help but it's probably more about the shaft profile and what works best for your particular swing.

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Doubt it.

Think that is more of an indian thing instead of the arrow or bow.

 

Tazz

Also a "ball" thing. They all have to work together. Ever done a Bridgestone ball fitting? I recommend one for everybody!!

 

 

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Just go get fit Judge. As I recall you have a couple of viable options for that in the Fort Wayne area.

 

All studies that I've read suggest that it is both the shaft and the head.

 

You can get fit and perhaps find a new shaft for less than the cost of a new driver and you will be set for 3 or 4 years.

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

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I know this is kind of a dumb question however can a shaft help with side spin?  I know you can alter flight lower/higher with the proper shaft however it would be cool if a shaft could help even a little bit with accuracy.

I have to give the obligatory answer first...there is no such thing as side spin.  It's just spin on an axis.

 

But yes, the proper shaft can absolutely cut down on spin.  Also finding the proper length, weight, kick point, torque etc could allow you to deliver the head to the ball in a manner that would produce less curvature of the ball.

 

Nothing is going to overrule The Ball Flight Rules of Golf but the right shaft could make it easier to hit it straighter.

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I have to give the obligatory answer first...there is no such thing as side spin. It's just spin on an axis.

 

But yes, the proper shaft can absolutely cut down on spin. Also finding the proper length, weight, kick point, torque etc could allow you to deliver the head to the ball in a manner that would produce less curvature of the ball.

 

Nothing is going to overrule The Ball Flight Rules of Golf but the right shaft could make it easier to hit it straighter.

Education is good and especially in a hard game like golf. Thanks for the insight 🏌️

 

 

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Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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I know this is kind of a dumb question however can a shaft help with side spin? I know you can alter flight lower/higher with the proper shaft however it would be cool if a shaft could help even a little bit with accuracy.

If the shaft does quite get back to its relative address position due to flex not matching your swing type/speed, ie, leaves the face slight open or closed relative to the target line, spin can be induced.

 

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Sorry... kind of long.

 

Plaids 2 cents...

 

I've only had one "true" fit for a driver & shaft. (Wishon 919THI) It was a disaster. Why? My theory is that we performed the fitting indoors with a LM. Luckily I was able to return the club for a refund. I have a great fitter and club builder and he's a stand-up guy who stands 100% behind his work. At that time I was wanting to replace my SLDR to complete my bag of all custom fit and built clubs. Fast forward 2.5 years to today.... I'm still playing the Stock-OTR SLDR I reviewed here on MGS back in the spring of 2014. When I was invited to do the review I was asked what type of shaft I wanted and I selected a Stiff since that's what I had in my Ping Raptor. My SLDR was shipped to me with a TaylorMade/Fujikura Speeder 57g. In other words a stock shaft. During a visit to my fitter one day he tested my shaft on some sort of device he had and said the Speeder 57-S technically is somewhat in between a stiff and a regular shaft. Ok fine.

 

This past summer in 2016 while in Austin I stopped by a Club Champion store one morning to just look around and ask a few questions. Just before I left I recall picking a driver head off the shelf and asking the fitter how much a club like this might cost me for example. He reached over to the wall and plucked a shaft and said, "this combination will run you about $600". Yikes!! I remember asking him how much the head and shaft cost and I believe it was something like $200-Head and $400-shaft. I then said that I don't have a $600 game and would't there be an ideal shaft for me for perhaps $200 or less? He said without blinking.... of course. I said wouldn't a $200 shaft allow me to hit the ball as far as possible and accurately as the $400 shaft. Again... Yes! So there ya go.

 

I tried twice last summer (2016) to replace my now aging 2014 SLDR but couldn't do it. I tried two Cobra drivers. The Fly-Z and Fly-Z+. I tried both heads with several shafts. Initially fitting indoors and then I took them out on the range. I never could replicate or match the results I get from my SLDR so I returned them. A short time later I returned to the local shop and tried a TM R15. It even had the same shaft technically speaking as my SLDR so I figured it might work. I even swapped my SLDR shaft into the R15 head. However I just couldn't get the R15 to work for me. Perhaps I gave up to quickly. Anyway... I felt guilty for all the time and effort the shop owner had put into helping me with the drivers so I bought the R15 and sold it a month later.

 

I believe for whatever reason I got really lucky with the SLDR. My initial review I recall rating the club as "good". However it turned out to be unbeatable for me. Remember... it's a Stock OTR shaft/club. Any future driver fittings for me will be performed outdoors and with many shaft selections. Shafts make a huge difference but finding the correct one for your swing might take some time. Just make sure you have a competent fitter with a decent selection of shafts. Also... make sure the shop/store will take a return if "their" shaft selection doesn't work.

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As a general rule of thumb (but by no means an absolute) aftermarket shafts are usually targeted towards "known specifics" of a golf swing and a golf club spec. This means that if someone is looking for a specific shaft characteristic in terms of weight, kick, FCM, bendpoint and feel etc, it can normally be found and utilised in the assembly of a particular club for a particular swing. 

The more specific and exotic the search criteria is, this may be directly related to the unit cost. The problem is, consumers normally relate cost with quality and performance - i.e. the higher the cost the better the shaft must be. This is totally false.

There are hundreds (if not thousands) of very good quality "aftermarket" shafts out there that cost less than 50 bucks and if sited to your requirements they will be more than a match for anything 10 times the cost. You just need to find the right shaft - this means finding a decent fitter.

Many unscrupulous "boutiques" will tend to steer you towards some high-end shaft for a hefty upchage and bamboozle you with anecdotes about how shaft X is the best that money can buy. Use your BS filter accordingly.

What I can say is that many stock shafts are indeed one and the same as the aftermarket version or at the very least just as good in quality and performance as the perceived "better aftermarket version". 

This is 2017 folks - the days of the top OEM's using any old junk to sell their claims of performance are long gone - they must indeed walk the walk they're talking. Back in the day of early graphite shaft production, then there could well have been a justifiable case for aftermarket being a lot better than stock shafts, but not today. Unfortunately, too many people still believe in what their peers told them some years ago and try to "buy" a game. I'm here to tell you right now, that money would be better spent on lessons to get better results. YMMV.

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.........

The more specific and exotic the search criteria is, this may be directly related to the unit cost. The problem is, consumers normally relate cost with quality and performance - i.e. the higher the cost the better the shaft  I'm here to tell you right now, that money would be better spent on lessons to get better results. YMMV.

 

Couldn't agree more.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

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A couple years ago, I was fit into the SLDR with a premium shaft at Club Champion and it made a world of difference from the stock shaft. One of my favorite drivers ever. Now I'm playing the stock shaft in the XR16 and love it as well. So in my experience, premium shafts can help but it's probably more about the shaft profile and what works best for your particular swing.

Were you fit by Mr. Yenser?

 

 

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appreciate all this info....just been sitting back and reading it, letting you guys go....thanks

Driver:    :honma:TR20 10.5*

Hybrids:   :callaway-small: Epic SuperHybrid 3 18*   Epic 4h 23*   

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Were you fit by Mr. Yenser?

 

 

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No it was the other guy. I forget his name, but know it wasn't Yenser.

WIT  :titelist-small: Sta Dry Bag:

 

Driver:       :taylormade-small: '17 M2

 

Woods:     :taylormade-small: M2 3W and 5W

 

Hybrids:   :callaway-logo-1: Apex 3h and 5h  

Irons:          :mizuno-small:   MP 18 MMC

 

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The more specific and exotic the search criteria is, this may be directly related to the unit cost. The problem is, consumers normally relate cost with quality and performance - i.e. the higher the cost the better the shaft must be. This is totally false.

 

 

 

... I kinda, sorta disagree with this. Cost is directly related to quality and performance as long as you have the right shaft for your swing. However, there is a subjective correlative increase in value per dollar spent. As a perfect example, I played the Rogue Black 95 and it fit me perfectly. Aldila sent me a Rogue Black Tour 110 shaft and it was better in almost every way. Especially the feel. It has a super smooth feel that is extraordinary. Performance results in slightly tighter dispersion while trajectory and distance was pretty much identical. So the question ... is the performance and feel of a $799 shaft more than twice as good as the retail $299 shaft? For most the answer is: of course not. For almost the same performance I would not pay more than twice as much. However, I may try to find a pull out or find one on a super sale or Ebay. I also have a repeatable enough swing and a good sense of feel to tell the difference. Most do not. Of course there are also those that money is no object and are willing to pay twice as much for a small increase in performance and feel. As well as PGA pro's that don't pay for their shafts. But I agree that the average guy isn't going to see any difference between a very good stock shaft and a premium aftermarket shaft. None. 

 

... But back to the original question. I have talked with many OEM engineers that have done a ton of research about how well a shaft fits the average John Q Public golfer. Gone are the days when a quality driver can have a cheap $10 generic shaft in it and expect to compete with everyone else. What they have done is take a shaft like the Matrix Red Tie in Cobra's F6 and tweaked it's performance to fit a wider range of players. They slightly increased the torque for better feel and made the tip just a little softer to add a slightly higher trajectory and a touch more spin. Considering most average players have no idea about shafts, if they demo a F6 and it doesn't go far or high enough they just think the driver sucks. Not like those of us here that might think I love the feel, look and sound of this driver but hit it a little too high with a little too much spin, and will upgrade or install an aftermarket shaft on our own. Always annoy's me when forum members say a stock shaft is garbage because it is a "made for" having no idea how much more difficult it is to take a shaft and tweak it's performance when it would be so much easier to just throw a Red Tie in the F6 and talk about it being a true aftermarket shaft. But they put much more time and money into a "made for" than an aftermarket shaft because they have tested it with a myriad of golfers and found it gives the best performance to the widest range of players. 

 

... Finding the right shaft profile can make finding the perfect shafts easier. With a modest 100mph swing, a subtle transition and smooth swing, a mid kick, mid torque, mid/low spin and mid trajectory works best for me. I try new shafts all the time to make sure I am still in the same wheelhouse. Played a Rogue Silver Tour 125 this spring and I had to go after it harder than I like to get my normal trajectory and it just didn't feel like I was fully loading/unloading it and went back to my Rogue Black. Previously I played a Kai'li in every driver I owned for the last 8 years and it has the same playing characteristics as the RB. But I enjoy trying different shafts to see what still works best for me and to have a reference for other players. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
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A couple years ago, I was fit into the SLDR with a premium shaft at Club Champion and it made a world of difference from the stock shaft. One of my favorite drivers ever. Now I'm playing the stock shaft in the XR16 and love it as well. So in my experience, premium shafts can help but it's probably more about the shaft profile and what works best for your particular swing.

You nailed it dead on it. Two years ago if you had told me I would be playing a stock 60 gram R flex Diamana shaft I would have accused you of smoking crack. I was a die hard UST man. I was impressed with the Diamana in my 915 so much I did a swap deal for a Nike Vapor Pro with the same shaft as a spare. I was so impressed by the Mitsubishi shafts that I ended up with fairway woods with Mitsu shafts different models but the profiles match. It is the matching of the shaft profile to one's swing exactly like you said

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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You nailed it dead on it. Two years ago if you had told me I would be playing a stock 60 gram R flex Diamana shaft I would have accused you of smoking crack. I was a die hard UST man. I was impressed with the Diamana in my 915 so much I did a swap deal for a Nike Vapor Pro with the same shaft as a spare. I was so impressed by the Mitsubishi shafts that I ended up with fairway woods with Mitsu shafts different models but the profiles match. It is the matching of the shaft profile to one's swing exactly like you said

 

 

The Diamana  Mitsubishi has always been a favorite of mine. The Cally I was testing at DGS yesterday came stock with that puppy and she howled like a beagle on the bay.

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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If you have never had a fitting, you need to do it for the knowledge you will gain. I always played stock and suffered more accuracy wise than distance. A fitting was eye opening and after one professional fitting, I gained enough knowledge to fit myself on a launch monitor.

 

 

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  • 5 years later...
On 1/6/2017 at 2:23 PM, JudgeSmails said:

So I have never played a driver with anything but the stock shaft it came with.  

For those of you that have gotten fitted and purchased a premium shaft for you driver, did you see real gains in distance and accuracy?

I normally play a regular flex shaft, I've always kind of considered the premium shafts to be for harder swingers, am I wrong?

Just curious on your thoughts if this is something you went through.....With all the new drivers coming out, seems like there is very little performance difference from model to model, I'm wondering if a premium shaft could be a better investment for someone (just got an M1 last year, so not in the market for a driver, but wonder if a shaft would be worth looking into) 

Thanks.

Sorry for resurrecting a necropost, but did you have any luck finding a club fitter in the Fort Wayne area that does a thorough shaft fitting?  Indy is the closest that I have found, and the guy isn't returning voice nor e-mails.  Thanks!

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On 6/21/2021 at 12:55 PM, tony@CIC said:

Thanks for posting - we always go to the Marathon Classic since it's only an hour away.  I like that you can get up close and they never seem to have rowdy crowds. 

This year we also have tickets to the Solheim being held at Inverness in Sylvania.

 

17 hours ago, Bluesman57 said:

Sorry for resurrecting a necropost, but did you have any luck finding a club fitter in the Fort Wayne area that does a thorough shaft fitting?  Indy is the closest that I have found, and the guy isn't returning voice nor e-mails.  Thanks!

Yes Sir.....hit the Golf Garage https://www.golfgaragefw.com/

David is awesome and will take care of you

Driver:    :honma:TR20 10.5*

Hybrids:   :callaway-small: Epic SuperHybrid 3 18*   Epic 4h 23*   

Irons:    :mizuno-small:JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small:CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :EVNROLL:EV8

Ball:    :bridgestone-small:Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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CAREFUL! Upgraded shafts are not what the pro's hit. The Ventus shaft offered as an upgrade for either zero or a slight charge is NOT the Ventus shaft that costs $500+ used by pros. The name is the same but the shafts are different. Nothing wrong with an upgrade, but if you want a pro shaft you'll pay $500+.

Certified Club Fitter.

Ping G425 Max Driver 10.5° w/Fujikura Ventus TR

Ping G425 Max 5-7-9 Fairway Woods w/Ping Alta CB

Ping G425 Irons 5-U w/Ping Alta CB (Power-Spec Lofts)

Ping 4.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap

Ping Redwood ZB Putter w/PP58

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Lamkin Sonar+ Wrap Mid-Size Grips

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38 minutes ago, HDTVMAN said:

CAREFUL! Upgraded shafts are not what the pro's hit. The Ventus shaft offered as an upgrade for either zero or a slight charge is NOT the Ventus shaft that costs $500+ used by pros. The name is the same but the shafts are different. Nothing wrong with an upgrade, but if you want a pro shaft you'll pay $500+.

The ventus shaft the pros use is $350 aftermaket, $250 upcharge for most manufacturers, just like the graphite design shafts, the aftermarket tensei.

To my knowledge other than the autoflex and dj signature series shafts there’s not an after market shaft that is over $380

And due to large quantity purchases some shafts like the pxg hzrdus, Aldila rogue white 130, the tensei black 1k that are no upcharge shafts from several manufacturers are the same as the after market offerings. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I got fitted for the Sim 2 Max last year and ended up upgrading to the HZRDUS Smoke Green shaft and feel it was well worth it.  I think the shaft has given me a few more yards but more importantly a lot more consistency as it is more geared towards my swing.  I think the right shaft, flex and weight is more important than the driver head itself, most of the new drivers are all fantastic.  

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I am a senior age player and I like to swing the Xstiff shafts with low torque tips. The low torque tip allow you to have control of the ball, preventing over-sidespinning of the ball. The dispersion is tight, keeps you on the short grass and low/optimum spinning ball will give you a bit more distance. So I don't bother with the brand it is how you swing that will give you a better result. I currently swing the UST Mamiya ProForce V2 8F4. 1.8 torque. Previous shaft was a Matrix Ozik Black 60 Xstiff. 2.8 torque. even though they may feel a little heavy, the results are great for me.

Edited by Miinike
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There are several videos on YouTube about this exact thing and most show the aftermarket one performs slightly better BUT I will say more importantly is getting fit and then having that shop properly build the clubs to the exact total weight, swing weight, CPM or flex, weight sorted, etc. You could have the best fitting but a DIY or crappy club builder can mess it all up. 

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I have tried several shafts over the years, but it was Autoflex changed everything for me. Straighter, longer and expensive. I have a G425 Max on it. The loaded, rhythmic swing required to use an Autoflex bled into my other clubs and my game has improved dramatically. I have well over $1200 into this club. It is worth every penny to consistently be in the fairway, around or more often inside of the 150. No other shaft has ever felt like it, worked like it or made the game as fun as it has. 

There is one thing about Autoflex that in my experience is a must for it to work right. You have to change your swing to meet the shafts requirements to maximize its potential. In other words, you must make an even tempo'ed swing and load it at the top. Then a smooth transition into the downswing. Then turn and burn. It really gets to be automatic sometimes. I love hitting driver. 

How much would you be willing to pay for that? Now that I have a taste of it, I would pay more to be honest. 

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I've used golfworks for several years. 

These have helped me choose a shaft over the years.  I've replaced most of my driver shafts from the stock to one that fit my swing characteristics and desired ball flight.

Titleist TS2 driver, 3 wood

Titleist hybrids

Mizuno MP20 MMC irons

Vokey wedges

Callaway Tour Blue Putter

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Fortunately all the brands I’m interested in offer enough shaft options that I don’t see a need to go with the considerable added expense of aftermarket custom. I got fitted for a $950 driver at Club Champion, bought the shaft only instead, and it was a total bust - never again. If I have the right weight and flex, close enough for my needs.

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
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