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Why does everyone dog on the higher handicaps?


JBones

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Yeah exactly!

 

I happen to know from follow Crossfield for years that he carries the ball basically 262 with his driver. So when he does his video with the Epic Sub Zero and gets an average carry of 270 it catches my attention.

 

That's the beauty of it being one specific person. We can develop our own sense of statistical significance. The same way that MGS does it. Having someone you don't have a history with test something makes the data really tough to quantify.

 

Perfect example is forum member testing.

 

If a guy tests a driver and says "I hit the driver 300 yards" with no context, that distance is irrelevant to me. If the guy does a review and says "i hit this driver 300 and my last one I averaged 280" NOW my interest is piqued. 

 

Honestly though I tend to put more value on the tester who has similar numbers to what I do. What works for Bones is never going to work for me. It just wont. He's a mutant. His handicap is irrelevant to me. He just has a totally different game than I do.

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But isn't that the point?  If one mid cap misses one way, and another misses another way etc.  What do you gain from that review?  The difference in strikes are due to the indian, not the arrow.

 

All the ball knows is how hard it was struck, what direction the club came from, what direction the club was facing and where on the face it hit.  Doesn't matter what the handicap of the person swinging it is.

 

I'm not saying mid & high cappers shouldn't test.  I'm saying what's the point of Crossfield bringing in a mid-cap guy for every review.  Why not just have the mid-cap guy start his own review channel and have at it?  Sounds like there is a demand for it in the market so maybe somebody here can start a new business?  Then we can all complain that he doesn't strike the ball well enough to do a review and why doesn't he bring in a scratch golfer to test too!

 

That's why I love the MGS tests so much.  They have a range of abilities and enough data that it is statically significant.

We agree that mid- to high handicappers should test.  Many mid- to high handicappers hit the ball fairly consistently, maybe just not in the sweet spot.  If the testing shows that Tester A has a tendency to hit on the toe most all of the time and I am a toe hitter, I'd like to know that and would likely pay more attention to that tester's results.  If Tester B hit mostly off the heel and fades/slices the ball all the time and I slice the ball, I looking at that tester's results.  The problem is that we don't know the tester's swing path characteristics or tendencies.  All we get to know now, even on MGS, is >100mph or

 

I don't watch Crossfield or Shiels because their club testing results with their swing have nothing in common with my swing.  Sometimes I'll look if it is a club I might be interested in, but they don't influence my club purchases.

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I recoiled when I read the tweet that started this thread. First of all a 10 is hardly a high handicapper. Second of all why wouldn't you want mid to high handicappers testing clubs? There are a wide variety of tests that would be quiet valid.

 

I know that when I'm looking at test results I'm looking most closely at the tester whose numbers are similar to mine.

 

If you don't think they should test then done read the results of that test.

 

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I get that, but if we just want data for perfect strikes, then I'd only read reviews done by robot. If we are talking putting claims to the test, then obviously a top notch players review will do that. However if I want to know how a certain club is going to perform on off center shots, then a 15 handicap review is going to be more useful.

I agree with this, numbers are great and if I m comparing clubs I'd care but I'd like to get similar feedback from a handicap close to mine. Just for the more subjective side, what I am looking for may not be what a scratch player is looking for.

 

 

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This post is driven by the below Mark Crossfield tweet.

 

 

Can someone explain what getting a mid hcap golfer to test equipment would prove. I simply don't get it???????— Mark Crossfield (@4golfonline) January 8, 2017

 

 

Why the hate on the higher handicaps? I value everyones opinion. I've played with high caps that stripe the ball, but just have a few mental lapses that cause the occasional high score, that same person may par the ridiculously tough #1 handicap hole on the course (I'm looking at you Mr Theoo). Should a 30 handicap be reviewing a set of Tour blades, probably not, but that doesn't mean I don't value their feedback anyway. It goes beyond equipment testing though. That 30 cap with the horrible swing waiting on the 1st, that you refuse to be paired with......that might be the most interesting person you've ever met in your life. You can't expect to grow the game when you have high profile "pros" spewing garbage like this.

Agree with ya Bones, some of my bests memories of golf have been with fellas who couldn't break 100 by miracle.

 

 

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So I watch both shiels and crossfield both have their own merits. But as a quote high handicap player I watch based on the numbers they have shown me over and over through tons of videos. Like others said if something blows their standard numbers out of the water now it's on my radar. Now to that tweet...of course us high handicapper can give great knowledge through testing. I can tell you if I hit something off the toe and it still goes a decent distance compared to my gamer. But that isn't what crossfield does, he does it all by himself. So the tweet is stupid. It's why I don't like twitter you can't always fit enough info in. But will probably get twitter to watch more Pga tour golf! Great discussion topic

 

 

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So I watch both shiels and crossfield both have their own merits. But as a quote high handicap player I watch based on the numbers they have shown me over and over through tons of videos. Like others said if something blows their standard numbers out of the water now it's on my radar. Now to that tweet...of course us high handicapper can give great knowledge through testing. I can tell you if I hit something off the toe and it still goes a decent distance compared to my gamer. But that isn't what crossfield does, he does it all by himself. So the tweet is stupid. It's why I don't like twitter you can't always fit enough info in. But will probably get twitter to watch more Pga tour golf! Great discussion topic

 

 

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Ill add on to your statement if you don't mind. On the game improvement gear your opinion might hold more weight to me because your in the group they designed it for and should see more benefits from it then I would (in theory). Totally agree that testing from all skill levels is a good thing!

 

 

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Driver: Nike Vapor Flex with Mitsubishi Rayon Fubuki ZT60x5ct S-flex shaft and stock grip.

3-Metal: Nike VRS 15 degree with Mitsubishi Rayon tour issue Diamana S73x5ct X-flex shaft and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grip.

Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46 degrees standard length and lie with KBS Tour-V stiff shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Wedges: Ben Hogan TK15 54, 58 degrees with KBS Tour-V X-flex shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Putter: Nike Method Converge B1|01 with Superstroke Flatso 2.0 grip.

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I disagree that my opinion only makes since for game improvement gear. This is why the handicap thing is stupid when talking about testing and why I love MGS. I understand you have to have some way to differentiate between players but I play tour irons and I've gamed "better player woods/hybrids". As others have stated everyone's game is different. Crossfield didn't say why would you want to test with someone who swings 80mph because you have to swing so fast for this specific club. Based on the statement of my opinion only matters on GI equipment then crossfield should only test better players clubs. No he lumped all higher handicaps into the same bag. Truthfully I hate most game improvement clubs they don't fit my eye. My point is you need more data and I believe that data from all levels low and high handicaps/abilities/swing speeds is important for a true test. Companies make players clubs or GI clubs but if the GI club gives crap #'s I'm going to play the players club.

 

 

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I think Mark Crossfield should just have Coach Lockey do some driver testing. His long game is similar to a mid-capper. He just makes up for it with his wedges.

 

 

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I thought this was a dig at rick shiels who had the 13 hcp videos

 

 

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