Loft on your Driver (worth checking).

[Maverickping]

Curious how many people have had the loft on their driver checked for accuracy? A long time ago I was playing SMT and had a head hand- picked for 12* and got close at 11.8. Went into a big box store looking for a certain number and had to go through maybe between 8-10 to get the number I was looking for. Then I started playing some Tour Edge drivers, same thing only this time it just didn't seem quite right (stamped 10.5) so I took it into Modern Golf and it turns out it was a 9.9 which is something that will not work for me. Seen heads vary as much as 2* degrees either way. Doesn't sound like much but it can be a killer for your game. For me I don't have the swing speed anymore to be playing anything under an “actual” 10.5. Not trying to mess with anyone's mind here but if you're not getting the results you expect out of your driver, check the loft. That might just be it.

[cnosil]

Do you have a loft tool that you use?

[Big Canoer]

I have a 12.5* TaylorMade M2.

My question is does it matter if it is off a few degrees?

If you were fitted (you were fitted right?) then the fitter simply tweaked it as needed to get the optimal launch angle and spin rates for YOUR swing, regardless of having an exact measurement of the loft. I am guessing that the majority of the newer, say last 5 years, drivers have the ability to adjust the loft. If you are playing a non-adjustable loft driver then you might be off a bit having hit a few thousand shots over the years but I cannot imagine it being off more than a degree which should not matter much.

[03trdblack]

Other than mentally I seriously doubt a .6* difference in loft is going to affect you unless you're one of the premier ball strikers on the PGA tour.  In fact, to get a head that close to the stamped loft from the factory is pretty darn good!  There is definitely a tolerance from the factory and +/- 1* is considered a pretty tight tolerance.

 

Most of us are not consistent enough to be able to measure that small of a difference in loft.  The way you deliver the club will change slightly from swing to swing.   Also, if you hit the ball 1/2" high or low on the face you're already going to be hitting at a different loft than the center due to the bulge and roll built into drivers.  I think in this situation it's going to be more into the shaft and/or head design that may be causing any issues you might be having.  

[hckymeyer]

The tolerances and variance of driver lofts is not exactly "new" news...

 

https://www.mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-worst-kept-secret-in-golf/

 

And unless you are buying in person and happen to carry a loft gauge around there's not a lot you can do about it.  You could buy tour issue stuff that has all been measured, of you could have a fitter hand pick a head for you that's been measured.  Other than that you are rolling the dice.

 

I agree that it could definitely affect performance though.  When MGS tested lofts some were off by over 2 degree's.  That's also + or - so from head to head you could be seeing 3-4 degree's of variance, and that can absolutely affect the performance of your driving.

[Mr_Theoo]

The tolerances and variance of driver lofts is not exactly "new" news...

 

https://www.mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-worst-kept-secret-in-golf/

 

And unless you are buying in person and happen to carry a loft gauge around there's not a lot you can do about it. You could buy tour issue stuff that has all been measured, of you could have a fitter hand pick a head for you that's been measured. Other than that you are rolling the dice.

 

I agree that it could definitely affect performance though. When MGS tested lofts some were off by over 2 degree's. That's also + or - so from head to head you could be seeing 3-4 degree's of variance, and that can absolutely affect the performance of your driving.

These types of things are some of the reasons I'm worried about buying a new driver even if I get fitted you don't know what you are getting.

[Zeasy]

These types of things are some of the reasons I'm worried about buying a new driver even if I get fitted you don't know what you are getting.

This is what puts me on the fence about the "in depth" fittings. All that time, effort, and money, to get a driver that will sit in a 2* window. Seems like a lot of precision for a wildcard tool.

[MattF]

If you're worried about what head you'd get after the fitting, can't you test using the head that you will have? I'm sure most club builders can do that.

[cnosil]

Think about it this way. You go to your fitter and get fit for a head and shaft that has to be ordered. Your 10.5 degree driver could range from about 9 to 12. Then with your swing being variable and the shaft also being variable you don't see the. performance you worked so hard to get at the fitter.

 

How often do we hear about clubs that were fit but don't perform when they get the actual club

[Zeasy]

If you're worried about what head you'd get after the fitting, can't you test using the head that you will have? I'm sure most club builders can do that.

 

I tried this once. They had only one adapter that could allow another head to be used and it was broken. You could probably take a brand specific head to a brand specific fitter, though. 

[Zeasy]

Think about it this way. You go to your fitter and get fit for a head and shaft that has to be ordered. Your 10.5 degree driver could range from about 9 to 12. Then with your swing being variable and the shaft also being variable you don't see the. performance you worked so hard to get at the fitter.

 

How often do we hear about clubs that were fit but don't perform when they get the actual club

 

Bingo. This seems like a pretty big issue that is either ignored or gets a lot of rolled eyes.

[hckymeyer]

If you're worried about what head you'd get after the fitting, can't you test using the head that you will have? I'm sure most club builders can do that.

This is actually one of the negatives to a high end fitter or someone using a fitting cart.  Typically they aren't stocking a ton of inventory, they have to order the head.  So they use a system like Club Conex so all of the heads and shafts are interchangeable.  You aren't testing with the actual head you are purchasing.  

[ole gray]

This is actually one of the negatives to a high end fitter or someone using a fitting cart.  Typically they aren't stocking a ton of inventory, they have to order the head.  So they use a system like Club Conex so all of the heads and shafts are interchangeable.  You aren't testing with the actual head you are purchasing.  

 

So what if you buy a driver from PGA Superstore etc. and take it to a fitter to have them help you set the correct loft and potential shaft options for your new purchase.  Wouldn't this be a more accurate  fitting since you are bringing the driver you will be gaming to the fitter? 

[cnosil]

So what if you buy a driver from PGA Superstore etc. and take it to a fitter to have them help you set the correct loft and potential shaft options for your new purchase. Wouldn't this be a more accurate fitting since you are bringing the driver you will be gaming to the fitter?

Better option but assumes you bought right shaft. Would be ideal to get refit on the club you purchased if you were given the specs during a fitting. Would be best to work with an authorized reseller in that case

[ole gray]

Better option but assumes you bought right shaft. Would be ideal to get refit on the club you purchased if you were given the specs during a fitting. Would be best to work with an authorized reseller in that case

 

I'm going to schedule a fitting soon get the correct shaft for my swing.  I'm taking a driver I recently acquired and hopefully the fitter can find the best option for launch angle, ball speed, carry and total distance, dispersion, etc. I've never had a true shaft fitting and I've heard once you get a true fit, you are good to go no matter what head you choose. Is this true?

[hckymeyer]

I'm going to schedule a fitting soon get the correct shaft for my swing. I'm taking a driver I recently acquired and hopefully the fitter can find the best option for launch angle, ball speed, carry and total distance, dispersion, etc. I've never had a true shaft fitting and I've heard once you get a true fit, you are good to go no matter what head you choose. Is this true?

Nope

 

It's entirely possible that a shaft will react differently in different heads. Then again it's also possible it could still be the best shaft in a different head.

 

At that point it's usually nickel and dime type stuff though.

[revkev]

I'm catching up today because my course is closed and I took the day off to play after an insane couple of weeks!

 

An interesting thread particularly since I intended to start a thread on the potential of a new driver fitting for me.  I will start the thread but a couple of observations first. 

 

Someone mentioned it so I will state what I think I know and that is that our swings don't vary anywhere near as much as we think from swing to swing or day to day.  Every fitter that I've ever spoken with has told me that.  The difference between a great hit and a miss are far less than you would suspect and in a series of swings like at a fitting a swing pattern will normally develop.  The exception might be when a player is going through lessons that are intended to bring about a more radical swing change.

 

We've seen a blog post that documents the head/loft variances so there is no doubt that it's true.  I would love to know the breaking point though - that would be a great test - at what loft variance will I start to notice a performance difference?  My guess is that it will be something over a half a degree as most manufactures adjust in .75 of a degree increments.  Remember that adjustable heads were developed to simplify the fitting process.

 

There are a couple of safe guards against this sort of issue - getting fit and receiving a different loft on the head.  If your fitter is reputable he's going to guarantee his work.  Have him check the loft on the driver when it comes in and if it's not what was ordered - back it goes.  As a consumer you have that right.  That or get fit by the guy who is going to build the club for you.  I do agree that can end up with a driver that is significantly different from what fit you if you aren't careful.

 

Great thread and great reminder for many of us!  Thanks!

[jaskanski]

Nope

 

It's entirely possible that a shaft will react differently in different heads. Then again it's also possible it could still be the best shaft in a different head.

 

At that point it's usually nickel and dime type stuff though.

 

I'd agree with this for the most part. 

It used to be a bigger deal back in the day when heads were pretty random off the production line and of course adjustability for loft and face angle were not available.

Today it is a lot easier to get to where you need to be in terms of loft and if you're a good enough fitter, you can match that loft to a swing type and shaft.

The actual true loft needs to be digitally measured to find out what it is, but this is only necessary if you need to have a reference point to start from. If you have a head which is pretty accurate off the production line (which they tend to be these days) then the ideal launch can be dialled in with adjustability. However, because of bulge and roll on most drivers (notice the face is curved) that measured loft only applies to a single point on the club face - anywhere else the loft will be different. So finding the centre of the club face consistently is still the number 1 priority in fitting.

[revkev]

@Jazkanski - Could you define "pretty accurate?"  And also could you remind us of the loft variance due to roll?  Another words if I heal my driver how much loft am I loosing or gaining? 

 

Thanks, I'm glad that you weighed in.

[null]

If there was only a golf site that looked into loft discrepancies. Oh wait

 

https://www.mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-worst-kept-secret-in-golf/

[jaskanski]

@revkev

The loft back in the old days of persimmon could be as much as 8 degrees different from top to bottom if it had a lot of bulge and roll. Modern designs of 460cc heads tend to have flatter profiles at around 1.5 - 2.5 degrees of variance. The variance in spec of loft is normally 1 degree or better - so combined with adjustability to around +/- 1.75 it is possible to get a pretty accurate fit. 

However!!! - the actual loft stamped on a driver is a completely arbitrary figure in most cases - it is simply a figure used to differentiate the varying lofts from each model line from one another. 

For example, most drivers will be available in lofts of 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 degrees etc for the same model, but this doesn't necessarily reflect the actual true digitally measured loft at the centre of the club face. It is only a figure that most golfers (and fitters lol) can relate to in order to make a selection based on a ballpark set of launch parameters. The 8.5 will indeed be lower in loft than the 9.5 model - but how much this is in actual numbers could be larger or smaller than the 1 degree it claims to be. 

This is why specific fitting is paramount to the specific model you intend to be using or have been recommended. In many cases, the actual measured loft will be irrelevant simply because it does not have any bearing on the the dynamics of the swing - it's basically a static number of a club at rest. What we are interested in is the dynamic loft in relation to face path and AoA which can be derived from the Trackman (other systems are available lol) data. We can then tell how much launch and spin can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing the loft - because the actual shaft adjustability is very accurate if measured. If it says it adds 0.75 degrees, it will do just that give or take a gnats hair. 

It's important to understand that each OEM has it's own margins of tolerance or leeway in spec and indeed how they mark and number each club for loft so comparing apples to apples is not really going to translate across brands if they haven't been matched to an exact figure with a decent LM system. Driver comparison "shoot outs" often fall victim to this obvious imbalance of raw specs and can only be relied upon with a pinch of salt - unless you have been properly fit for each one. For most magazines and online reviews and vlogs, this is rarely the case.

There is some evidence that some OEM's even "downplay" the actual rated loft to appeal to the machismo of the consumer - in other words, the actual measured loft could well be 11 degrees (and the OEM knows this too) but the loft is marked on the club as 9 degrees, simply because higher loft is perceived as higher handicap. I kid you not. 

[null]

@revkev

The loft back in the old days of persimmon could be as much as 8 degrees different from top to bottom if it had a lot of bulge and roll. Modern designs of 460cc heads tend to have flatter profiles at around 1.5 - 2.5 degrees of variance. The variance in spec of loft is normally 1 degree or better - so combined with adjustability to around +/- 1.75 it is possible to get a pretty accurate fit.

However!!! - the actual loft stamped on a driver is a completely arbitrary figure in most cases - it is simply a figure used to differentiate the varying lofts from each model line from one another.

For example, most drivers will be available in lofts of 8.5, 9.5, 10.5 degrees etc for the same model, but this doesn't necessarily reflect the actual true digitally measured loft at the centre of the club face. It is only a figure that most golfers (and fitters lol) can relate to in order to make a selection based on a ballpark set of launch parameters. The 8.5 will indeed be lower in loft than the 9.5 model - but how much this is in actual numbers could be larger or smaller than the 1 degree it claims to be.

This is why specific fitting is paramount to the specific model you intend to be using or have been recommended. In many cases, the actual measured loft will be irrelevant simply because it does not have any bearing on the the dynamics of the swing - it's basically a static number of a club at rest. What we are interested in is the dynamic loft in relation to face path and AoA which can be derived from the Trackman (other systems are available lol) data. We can then tell how much launch and spin can be adjusted by increasing/decreasing the loft - because the actual shaft adjustability is very accurate if measured. If it says it adds 0.75 degrees, it will do just that give or take a gnats hair.

It's important to understand that each OEM has it's own margins of tolerance or leeway in spec and indeed how they mark and number each club for loft so comparing apples to apples is not really going to translate across brands if they haven't been matched to an exact figure with a decent LM system. Driver comparison "shoot outs" often fall victim to this obvious imbalance of raw specs and can only be relied upon with a pinch of salt - unless you have been properly fit for each one. For most magazines and online reviews and vlogs, this is rarely the case.

There is some evidence that some OEM's even "downplay" the actual rated loft to appeal to the machismo of the consumer - in other words, the actual measured loft could well be 11 degrees (and the OEM knows this too) but the loft is marked on the club as 9 degrees, simply because higher loft is perceived as higher handicap. I kid you not.

You're preaching to the choir

https://www.mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-the-worst-kept-secret-in-golf/

[jaskanski]

Lol I guess so.

There are some heroes and villains when it comes to loft specs and Taylormade (for example) seem to make both sides of the coin. Some of their heads are woefully off in terms of what is written on them OTR, but by the same token their tour issue heads are right on the money. The tour issue stuff benefits from being lofted to a tenth of a degree and weighed to a very accurate spec. The specs will be labelled on the head, with the point of measurement even indicated on the face.

[revkev]

@Jaz thanks

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[PlaidJacket]

All I can say or add is this....

My 2014 SLDR is "supposed to be set at 12* loft. Is it really? Probably close I guess. Here's what I do know...

My drives as far as height, shot pattern/disbursement, and distance are as good as I can expect. I say; so what if the loft is truly something different? If I were to take it in and have the loft measured and found out it was really 11 or 10.5 then so be it. I'm not changing it. Doesn't matter... my eyes tell me everything I need to know.

[jaskanski]

All I can say or add is this....

My 2014 SLDR is "supposed to be set at 12* loft. Is it really? Probably close I guess. Here's what I do know...

My drives as far as height, shot pattern/disbursement, and distance are as good as I can expect. I say; so what if the loft is truly something different? If I were to take it in and have the loft measured and found out it was really 11 or 10.5 then so be it. I'm not changing it. Doesn't matter... my eyes tell me everything I need to know.

 

I think PlaidJacket has hit the nail on the head here.

If the driver is giving you the ball flight and distance you want, then what do you care what the specs are? Does it make any difference?

[revkev]

Yes but Plaids point is that he found his on his own. I'm sure that there are some guys here who might be able to do that but not everyone or more accurately very few have his ability to cipher out what might fit best.

 

Its certainly easier if you frequently play the same course and use the same range. Very easy to tell then if it's the proper fit.

 

Sent from my VS986 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Boricuagolf]

I just did a complete bag fitting last Friday and the only question I had was the actual driver loft, they used a different piece of equipment and it came out to be .1 off, my SLDR TP is 10.5 and the machine stated 10.4, so for me there is no difference, had to adjust the driver shaft length the 44.25" from 44.75", no significant distance loss (old ss/carry/total--109-110/291/309, new ss/carry/total--109-110/288/306, better spin numbers as well) and added way better dispersion numbers...

[ole gray]

I just did a complete bag fitting last Friday and the only question I had was the actual driver loft, they used a different piece of equipment and it came out to be .1 off, my SLDR TP is 10.5 and the machine stated 10.4, so for me there is no difference, had to adjust the driver shaft length the 44.25" from 44.75", no significant distance loss (old ss/carry/total--109-110/291/309, new ss/carry/total--109-110/288/306, better spin numbers as well) and added way better dispersion numbers...

Shorter driver shafts are a good option for most folks. My favorite length is 44.5

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Boricuagolf]

Ole Gray...Agreed!!!, I used to play a 44" driver before, then 44.5" and this new head/shaft combination works best for me at 44.25", but yes, I agree that most golfers would benefit with a shorter driver...