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My Edel putter fitting


Orange Hog
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It sounds like that's a case of someone not choosing the correct line if you think about it. Which really, no fitting is going to fix. We are STILL golfers that have to play the game. The idea behind this fitting system is simply to match your club up to what you naturally bring to the table in the most efficient way possible.

 

To me it's the basic idea that we all bring our own combination of things to the game. We all see out of a different lens. Literally. Each of us has our own way that we see the world.

 

Edel is trying to build a fitting cart that conforms the putter to your vision so that your body doesn't fight the putter. It allows for the most natural way to approach the game without having to think/fight your preexisting conditions to make something work.

 

How does it make sense to choose a putter that forces you to look at things the way it was designed instead of designing the putter around you?

Thanks for the response. Not sure it is about picking the correct line. And I agree that fitting for vision is the right approach.

 

Assuming perfect setup and aim there are still lots of ways to make a putt. I can use my left side like Dave Stockton teaches, I can use rocking shoulders like Pelz teaches, I can use my arms and minimal shoulders like Utley teaches, or I can use my right side like Tiger does. Is one of these methods better than another? The question is what does it due to the path of the putter? I have seen that it does have an influence on the putters path direction. Most studies will say that the putters path will impact the direction the ball goes by about 15-17%.

 

Given that, if my perfectly aligned putter returns perfectly square to target line at impact but my putters path is going right will I hit my intended line?

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Thanks for the response. Not sure it is about picking the correct line. And I agree that fitting for vision is the right approach.

 

Assuming perfect setup and aim there are still lots of ways to make a putt. I can use my left side like Dave Stockton teaches, I can use rocking shoulders like Pelz teaches, I can use my arms and minimal shoulders like Utley teaches, or I can use my right side like Tiger does. Is one of these methods better than another? The question is what does it due to the path of the putter? I have seen that it does have an influence on the putters path direction. Most studies will say that the putters path will impact the direction the ball goes by about 15-17%.

 

Given that, if my perfectly aligned putter returns perfectly square to target line at impact but my putters path is going right will I hit my intended line?

I'd argue there is only one way to make a putt, the ball goes in the hole.  

 

There are also only 2 main things that matter.  Direction and distance.  Everything else is just noise.  Ignore being able to read a green, can you hit the ball where you think you are hitting?  That's aim and what Edel focuses on.  The rest is just distance control.  It really doesn't matter how you get the putter to the ball, all that matters is that you are hitting the ball to the place you think you are hitting it to.  Then it's just about pace and being able to read a green after that.

 

I'm not saying Edel is the end all be all of putter fitting, but with all the combinations of heads, necks, lines, dots etc they can find something that fits you and your stroke and allows you to hit the ball on your intended line no matter what type of stroke you use.

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I am 100% for putter fitting and it isn't that I do or don't agree with the edel approach. I keep hearing about fitting for aim. My question is really around does perfect aim equal perfect impact and does the edel approach take stroke tendencies into consideration.

 

There are multiple ways to fit a putter. The first is to give you a putter and change your mechanics to fit the putter. This could be posture and setup changes or how you swing the putter.

The second is to fit a putter to your tendencies.

 

When I hear about people and their fittings we hear things like setup with the eyes over the ball, swing the club with your shoulders, for SBST use a face balanced putter and so on. The approach always seems to be go away from what you do naturally.

 

For the full swing we seem to be moving towards using your natural swing and recognizing the people swing the club differently. Granted we want to fix gross errors that are a hindrance but if I can execute why change the stroke. Look at all golfers there isn't a perfect model on how to swing a club. We aren't robots and we are built differently. Why should putting be any different?

 

Ultimately I am asking questions to learn and I share my thoughts on putter fitting as well. Consistent aim may make you a better putter related to hole proximity but does it make you a better putter?

Vision does play a role in the path of the putter.  Several years ago, I was a terrible putter.  I started putting ala Jack Nicklaus, open to the line because I am right-eye dominant. It helped. There is a thread about this:

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/13150-eye-dominance/

 

However, two years ago I started looking at the hole, so I went back to square alignment, and started putting like you stated above:

 

"When I hear about people and their fittings we hear things like setup with the eyes over the ball, swing the club with your shoulders, for SBST use a face balanced putter and so on. The approach always seems to be go away from what you do naturally."

 

But now, it seems natural to me.  Since I look at the hole, I have to trust that I read the putt correctly, lined up my ball to the line, and align my putter to the line.  At first it was very difficult to trust the read.  With time it got easier.  I use an alignment aid when practicing to ensure that my eyes are over the ball, I use my shoulders, and go SBST with a face-balanced putter.  Well, so I thought.  The Ping fitting I did a couple of weeks ago, showed that my swing is a slight arc on the backswing, but when I practice it seems like it is SBST.  I also try to ensure that my putter head chases down the line well past the ball rather than arcing.  I guess the stroke may more straight-back, down the line.   :)

 

So, my question is What will a putter fitting like the Edel method tell me that I don't already know?  All I need is a line on the putter to align the head with my target line.  My biggest problem with putters is that most are too light and I cannot control the backswing to bring it back to square at impact.  Much better results with heavy putters.

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So, my question is What will a putter fitting like the Edel method tell me that I don't already know?  All I need is a line on the putter to align the head with my target line.  My biggest problem with putters is that most are too light and I cannot control the backswing to bring it back to square at impact.  Much better results with heavy putters.

 

Kenny I can't speak for the intricacies of the fitting because I'm not certified, but from the experience that I have with the system I would say that their solution would be less about valuing a certain variable more than any of the others (if we look at building a club to fit someone like an experiment, the different pieces of the club that can be changed are the variables in the experiment. The control would be the golfer and their ability to repeat their delivery numbers) and more how ALL of those variables being custom fit to what you bring to the table interact with each other to provide the most natural and fluent putter you can put in your hands.

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There are also only 2 main things that matter.  Direction and distance.  Everything else is just noise.  Ignore being able to read a green, can you hit the ball where you think you are hitting?  That's aim and what Edel focuses on.  

.

 

We are just going to have to disagree.  Yes, hitting the ball where you think you are hitting it is aim. However,  there are more variables than aim that influence the direction of the ball.  you actually have to make a stroke.  Think full swing,  it is more than just aiming down the fairway.  Based on your response the Edel fitting approach is simply fix your aim and make sure you can roll the ball a particular distance.  It is then up to you to fix your stroke to return the ball to where you aimed.  

 

 

 The Ping fitting I did a couple of weeks ago, showed that my swing is a slight arc on the backswing, but when I practice it seems like it is SBST.  I also try to ensure that my putter head chases down the line well past the ball rather than arcing.  I guess the stroke may more straight-back, down the line.   :)

 

 

As an FYI,  it you used the iPing app it measures rotation and not the actual putter path.

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Only my belief here.... putting is a feel-based thing. Some people just naturally have it, others don't. If you have to get over the top technical to try and figure it out, you don't have it. Never gonna have it, until you loosen up and let it happen.

 

 

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As an FYI,  it you used the iPing app it measures rotation and not the actual putter path.

It measures the closing angle, impact angle, tempo, lie angle and shaft lean.  

 

They did the test with the new Sigma G Kushin.  From about 7-8 feet, putt 5 balls in a row without any practice strokes, then repeat.  I made 7 out of 8!!  If I was in a store I might have bought that putter right there.

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This is a great discussion. It also shows why MGS is hands down the best golf forum out there. Lots of different opinions offered up, and everyone is respectful, with no childish bull**** being thrown around at each other. Kudos to all of you!

 

Putting has been the bane of my golfing career. I have tried all different kinds of shapes and sizes. I keep going back to blade styles for one reason; mallet styles just bother me to look at. I find looking at all that club head to be distracting when trying to concentrate on a putt. Maybe I'm just weird...lol.

 

I have found that I definitely like a heavy putter. I have always thought I was a SBST putter. I set up a straight line on the floor and made a few strokes. I found that it was almost impossible to actually go SBST; there was always a slight arc back and through. Not much, but it was noticeable.

 

I saw a you tube vid. the other day with a famous putting coach, who's name I can't remember right now. He advocated a more upright, natural position with your eyes slightly inside the ball. He argues that this promotes a more natural, fluid stroke that works better with the way your body moves.

 

I have watched dozens of putting tutorials. What I've found is, there is probably no wrong or right way...... and lots of confusion! :unsure:

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It measures the closing angle, impact angle, tempo, lie angle and shaft lean.  

 

They did the test with the new Sigma G Kushin.  From about 7-8 feet, putt 5 balls in a row without any practice strokes, then repeat.  I made 7 out of 8!!  If I was in a store I might have bought that putter right there.

 

Yep,  it measures other things,  all I was saying is that when categorizing you as a straight arc,  slight arc, strong arc it uses rotation not path.

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We are just going to have to disagree.  Yes, hitting the ball where you think you are hitting it is aim. However,  there are more variables than aim that influence the direction of the ball.  you actually have to make a stroke.  Think full swing,  it is more than just aiming down the fairway.  Based on your response the Edel fitting approach is simply fix your aim and make sure you can roll the ball a particular distance.  It is then up to you to fix your stroke to return the ball to where you aimed.  

 

 

 

As an FYI,  it you used the iPing app it measures rotation and not the actual putter path.

I think our miscommunication here is the term Aim.  I get the impression you are talking about where you are aiming as you are lining up.  A whole bunch of things are going to affect where the ball goes as you hit the putt and if the ball actually starts where you are aiming.

 

What I am thinking of is after the ball is struck, did it hit the line you intended.  The fitting should take care of all those other stroke variables like path and rotation etc to find a putter that will allow the ball to go where you thought it was going to without changing your stroke.  

 

Same theory as finding a putter that will allow you to roll a ball over a penny sitting 5' away.  I could set up "aiming" 6" right and do figure 8's in my backswing.  It doesn't really matter.  All that matters is once the putt is struck did it roll over the penny.  The Edel process focuses on finding a putter to fit whatever goofy stroke you have and allow you to roll a ball over that penny.

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Well said Barbajo, 

 

This is the essence of what I understood about the overall process and immediately saw results that have continued.

 

Prior to my fitting, the difference between a good day of putting and a poor day was only 1 or 2 strokes at best, often, a good day didn't result in less putts at all, simply, the difference was more lip outs and burned edges and easy tap ins versus having to make 3 to 4 footers for my second or third putt. Now the difference between a good day and bad day of putting may be 6 or 7 strokes as I make a slew of putts I rarely made prior to my fitting.

 

Compensations in golf are real, according to my pro, it was the root of my two way miss on the full swing. You get stuck, you sense your club face is open or your swinging to far right and then your flipping the face closed to compensate and when you can't time it you get the big snap hooks or you do nothing and hit the big block.

 

 

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This is a great discussion. It also shows why MGS is hands down the best golf forum out there. Lots of different opinions offered up, and everyone is respectful, with no childish bull**** being thrown around at each other. Kudos to all of you!

 

Putting has been the bane of my golfing career. I have tried all different kinds of shapes and sizes. I keep going back to blade styles for one reason; mallet styles just bother me to look at. I find looking at all that club head to be distracting when trying to concentrate on a putt. Maybe I'm just weird...lol.

 

I have found that I definitely like a heavy putter. I have always thought I was a SBST putter. I set up a straight line on the floor and made a few strokes. I found that it was almost impossible to actually go SBST; there was always a slight arc back and through. Not much, but it was noticeable.

 

I saw a you tube vid. the other day with a famous putting coach, who's name I can't remember right now. He advocated a more upright, natural position with your eyes slightly inside the ball. He argues that this promotes a more natural, fluid stroke that works better with the way your body moves.

 

I have watched dozens of putting tutorials. What I've found is, there is probably no wrong or right way...... and lots of confusion! :unsure:

Putting was always difficult for me too until a few years ago.  My pro said I had "hands of stone."  I worked on it a lot because I wasn't that good off the tee either and I had to improve my short game to compensate.  Definitely a heavy putter for me; I can control my backswing better and keep the putter going down the line I picked.  I thought I was SBST too, but when I think about it, that is almost impossible to maintain except for a short putt.  The key for me is to keep the putter head on my line after I hit the ball.  I do this by using a string between two spikes.

 

IMG_0576.jpg

 

I really don't watch any videos of putting because they don't apply to my stroke anymore.

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My 2 cents from my Edel fitting---

 

1. To start the fitting, they asked me to "square up" the putter I was using -- basically set up the putter so it looked to my eye that it was set up square to the target, as I would anytime I was ready to putt

 

2. After taking away the ball and letting the laser bounce off the mirrored club face, I could see that I actually had the putter aimed sharply to the right, with a ton of forward press -- the reflection of the laser was nowhere near the target.

 

3. Now, I had actually holed a few putts with this setup, so I had to ask why? David Edel said that if you play a lot, you generally wind up doing things with your stroke at impact to redirect the club face so that it's in the general direction of the hole, meaning you subconsciously compensate.  He said they've had tour players in for fittings who were further away from the target than I was!

 

4. The goal of the Edel fitting was to remove visual aim variables - create something that you can visually line up correctly every time, and then let the stroke work itself out. I may be reading something into it that isn't there - so PLEASE take this with a few grains of salt - but I interpreted that as saying once you get your aim squared away, your stroke will find its own way - if you're SBST, you'll be fine, if you're slight arc (as I am), you'll be fine, etc.

 

5. The more alignment lines on the putter, the worse I got. Dots were death for me -- made me focus on the wrong thing and made me aim too far right. Two lines on the flange worked best -- followed closely by no lines at all. They've had other people in for fittings that squared up best with three lines and three dots - it's all up to how your brain interprets lines and dots.

 

6. If I had to put a label on it, I'd say the Edel system isn't a Fit For Stroke system - nor does it try to change your stroke or say you should be putting with this particular type of stroke.  My experience was that it's more of a system that helps make sure you aim at whatever target you're aiming for easily and naturally, based on the way your brain interprets what it sees. Once you can be confident you're square at impact, how you get the putter there is basically up to you.

 

7. I had been using a blade putter prior to the fitting - the way it was explained to me is that my eye/brain connection told me that, if I did actually have the thing square at address, it would look "closed" to me (making me think I was aiming too far left), so I would subconsciously  open it up so, to my eye, it would look square but would, in fact, be open and aimed to the right.  To compensate, I would tend to close the face at impact in hopes of getting the ball in the general neighborhood of the hole.  That's an awful lot going on in such a small stroke.

 

8. They took all kinds of other things into account as well, including lie and loft -- visually I didn't "see" enough loft with the blade and would forward press - and l tend to keep my hands close to the body and fairly low during my normal setup. They would up fitting me for a 33" putter with a specific loft and lie. Edel told me if someone else tried the putter, they may hate it because it wouldn't look or feel right for them.

 

9. Distance control has aided through weighting and counterbalancing -- they went through a process of hitting putts to a yellow line 15 feet away to figure out what specific weighting (hi/low - heavy/light) would work for me,.

 

10. To sum up this lengthy oration -- main take away for me was the Edel system presumes that your stroke is your stroke, but how we interpret what we see as open or closed can make us do all kinds of crazy things to compensate for what we see. If they can create  putter that simplifies that process, you can get back to your normal, natural stroke without having to overly complicate what you do at the moment of impact. During the process, head weight, counterweight, loft, length, lie, etc all come into focus, and they generally try to figure out what's best for you.

 

Now just HOW you figure out your line - that's a completely different story!

 

Absolutely fantastic post.

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Reading John's post reminded me that I wrote a blog article on the Edel fitting back in 2011.

 

https://www.mygolfspy.com/golf-gadget-review-edel-putter-fitting/

 

Similar takes a John and the big thing was that they didn't want to sell me a putter because I was aiming my current gamer correctly. I had saved up some money too!

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Reading John's post reminded me that I wrote a blog article on the Edel fitting back in 2011.

 

https://www.mygolfspy.com/golf-gadget-review-edel-putter-fitting/

 

Similar takes a John and the big thing was that they didn't want to sell me a putter because I was aiming my current gamer correctly. I had saved up some money too!

They convinced you to not buy a putter, that alone is a testament to the fitting!

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I think our miscommunication here is the term Aim.  I get the impression you are talking about where you are aiming as you are lining up.  A whole bunch of things are going to affect where the ball goes as you hit the putt and if the ball actually starts where you are aiming.

 

What I am thinking of is after the ball is struck, did it hit the line you intended.  The fitting should take care of all those other stroke variables like path and rotation etc to find a putter that will allow the ball to go where you thought it was going to without changing your stroke.  

 

Same theory as finding a putter that will allow you to roll a ball over a penny sitting 5' away.  I could set up "aiming" 6" right and do figure 8's in my backswing.  It doesn't really matter.  All that matters is once the putt is struck did it roll over the penny.  The Edel process focuses on finding a putter to fit whatever goofy stroke you have and allow you to roll a ball over that penny.

 

Yes,  our miscommunication was the word aim.  I think of aim as where I have setup and impact is after we have done all our crazy backswing stuff.  And my questions have always been about the other variables that you are referring too.  Never heard them discussed with Edel fittings; only the focus on aim.

 

I use a dime instead of a penny at 20".  Hitting a dime at 20" is keeping withing 1* of intended line which means with the correct speed and correct read I will make a 10 foot putt.

 

My 2 cents from my Edel fitting---

 

 

Thanks for the detailed post.  Answered a lot of my questions on the stroke aspect of an edel fitting.  Definitely interested in doing one; just wish there was one close to me.  Guess I will see if I can get one when I go to myrtle beach.

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                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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PGA Superstore and some Golf Galaxies

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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PGA Superstore and some Golf Galaxies

 

I know,  looked on their site for fitters and nothing really close to me.  The show the PGA Superstores in Myrtle Beach as having fitters.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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At long last I received my custom Edel E-3 today!!!!   :D

 

I immediately took it out of the box and started rolling putts on my practice green in the living room.  It's difficult to express how excited I am to finally have "the one" in the bag.  After about a half hour I told my wife that we needed to get out of the house and go hit the First Tee course with the kiddos since it was 70 and sunny outside.  Of course, this was purely selfish because I wanted to try out the Edel on real greens.

 

The First Tee locally has an awesome practice facility and actually has two par 4's and a 190-yard par 3 (from the tips).  Greens were a little fuzzy today but it gave me a pretty good gauge on working with this putter.

 

First hole I came up just a tad short with my approach shot (front fringe) and had my chip lip out.  Kind of took a weird spin out of the hole and ran out to around 8 feet away.  Stepped right up, set up and drained the putt.  Nice start.  Next hole I nestled my uphill birdie putt from around 25 feet away to a foot and tapped in.  Final hole had a 20 footer for birdie, misread the line and ran it past about a foot.  Again, tap in for par.

 

Take-away from a very limited exposure is that my distance control is silly good with this putter.  I threw down some balls on the greens to practice the same putts I had in regulation and every single one ended up right on top of the previous ball.  Alignment is so easy...I don't even have to give it any thought.  The putts I missed were just me mis-reading the break.  That will happen but I'm super excited about having this putter in the bag.  I sincerely feel like I'm finally found the putter I've been searching for for a long, long time.

 

 

 

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