Let's Talk Aimpoint.

[Sschaffer24]

In continuing the trend of looking at data or using a system to analyze/improve your game my next question is focused on the use of Aimpoint in our game.

 

I have been fascinated with this program once I found out that Edel is a huge proponent and one of the driving industry forces behind this system. Unfortunately I don't have anyone around me that is certified and easily accessible so I haven't been able to make it to a class.

 

I'm curious though for those of you who have experience (or an opinion) with the system, how is it working? Are you still using it? Do you have a reason why you don't?

 

I for one would love to have this in my toolbox and just need to find the time to do so.

[Mr_Theoo]

I took the class a couple of years back and loved it. The way they teach you to read the greens is very useful. The best thing I learned from it was that speed is very important. Before I use to hear that you wanted to hit it about 3 feet past the hole on the right line to. After aimpoint I now try to hit it no more than a foot past the hole.

[Kor.A.Door]

I too am interested in Aimpoint, if there is one part of the game where I struggle more than any other it's Putting, it seems simple enough, I just have no idea where to learn more about it.

[Sschaffer24]

Theoo are you using the full system in your game now? Are you using Express or the full system in your game?

[sweethebs]

I took the class from a guy that also works with tour folks. It has helped my putting, although I have found looking at the hole has also helped. Great book https://www.amazon.com/Instinct-Putting-Breakthrough-Science-Based-TargetVision/dp/1592403530 Looking at the hole has dramatically cut down on three putts.

 

Big takeaway for aimpoint based on his teaching and feedback from pros.

 

95% of putts are 1-2 degrees. LPGA pro said she used 3-4 fingers less than 10% of the time. Basically I pretty much use 1 or 2 fingers. If I am somewhat in between I alway go 2.

 

It helps less on long putts. However I do go about 8 feet from the hole to feel the break.

[Mr_Theoo]

Theoo are you using the full system in your game now? Are you using Express or the full system in your game?

Just express, I think it's more than enough to change ones putting game.

[Kor.A.Door]

How well would this work with Bermuda? Since there may not be much, if any, undulation in the green, but the grain will cause the ball to move one way or the orher. You can't feel it in your feet while standing on it, and you can't see it, the ball breaks as it slows down, it's almost like you have to k ow what it will do. How does aimpoint work without being able to see or feel any break?

[Kenny B]

I'm not a fan of it.  I've watch Adam Scott use it over the years... enough said.

[cnosil]

I took a Vector Green Reading class which is based on the book "Vector Putting: The Art and Science of Reading Greens and Computing Break" by H.A. Templeton (also read the book) since my local instructor taught that method.  Similar concept in that based on the slope of the green and speed of the green the break can be determined mathematically.  The first premise is that you are able to evaluate slope by standing on the green.  This becomes more complicated on putts with multiple breaks.  Then based on the speed of the putt you can determine the break.  

 

I have dabbled with the Aimpoint Express approach based on what I have read and my background withe Vector System.  I knew how to measure the slope from Vector and then used my fingers based on the slope % I determined.  I never did the arm length adjustments.   Based on this I was able to approximate the balls path to the hole.  

 

After having played with the Aimpoint Express approach I think if you are able to start your ball on the line you want you begin to learn how much break there is for a particular putt. This eliminates the need for using the fingers.  I still use my feet to approximate the slope so I know direction and then I visualize the putt.  

 

I think the system has some merit but unless you are able to start your ball on line and control speed you will not be able to realize the full benefits of Aimpoint.  

[GolfSpy Dave]

I took a Vector Green Reading class which is based on the book "Vector Putting: The Art and Science of Reading Greens and Computing Break" by H.A. Templeton (also read the book) since my local instructor taught that method.  Similar concept in that based on the slope of the green and speed of the green the break can be determined mathematically.  The first premise is that you are able to evaluate slope by standing on the green.  This becomes more complicated on putts with multiple breaks.  Then based on the speed of the putt you can determine the break.  

 

I have dabbled with the Aimpoint Express approach based on what I have read and my background withe Vector System.  I knew how to measure the slope from Vector and then used my fingers based on the slope % I determined.  I never did the arm length adjustments.   Based on this I was able to approximate the balls path to the hole.  

 

After having played with the Aimpoint Express approach I think if you are able to start your ball on the line you want you begin to learn how much break there is for a particular putt. This eliminates the need for using the fingers.  I still use my feet to approximate the slope so I know direction and then I visualize the putt.  

 

I think the system has some merit but unless you are able to start your ball on line and control speed you will not be able to realize the full benefits of Aimpoint.  

FYI Vector Putting was sued in federal court for basing their system on Aimpoint technologies. 

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/7/prweb10890044.htm

 

Current Aimpoint classes also address speed and other putting issues. Find a certified instructor running a clinic near you  HERE.

[DaveP043]

 

I have been fascinated with this program once I found out that Edel is a huge proponent and one of the driving industry forces behind this system. Unfortunately I don't have anyone around me that is certified and easily accessible so I haven't been able to make it to a class.

Sean, I know there are Aimpoint certified instructors in Erie, PA, at Golf Evolution.  That's not exactly in DuBois, but its not crazy far either.  I'm hopeful that one of the instructors will be visiting my area later in the spring, and plan to take the Aimpoint clinic while he's here  

[Peaksy68]

I had a long discussion about aim point with one of Australia's biggest name coaches when Adam Scott started using it. His problem with Aimpoint was it forces you to think technically, then you have to switch off the technical side to engage the "feel" side of your brain prior to making a stroke.

His stable of past players includes one of the best putters on tour, and a major winner so it was interesting to hear his take on it.

 

Personally I don't know how anyone can calculate the speed of every green, most courses I play have subtle changes in speed over the course of a round.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[cnosil]

I had a long discussion about aim point with one of Australia's biggest name coaches when Adam Scott started using it. His problem with Aimpoint was it forces you to think technically, then you have to switch off the technical side to engage the "feel" side of your brain prior to making a stroke.

His stable of past players includes one of the best putters on tour, and a major winner so it was interesting to hear his take on it.

 

Personally I don't know how anyone can calculate the speed of every green, most courses I play have subtle changes in speed over the course of a round.

 

Two comments. Most people are not 100% feel. I you think you are drop a ball on a green, close your eyes, and roll the ball some distance without looking at a target. If you can do that then you are feel only otherwise you engage technical aspects into your stroke. Second, isn't calculating green speed something everyone does over the course of a round. How else would you know how hard to hit the ball?

[Kenny B]

Two comments. Most people are not 100% feel. I you think you are drop a ball on a green, close your eyes, and roll the ball some distance without looking at a target. If you can do that then you are feel only otherwise you engage technical aspects into your stroke. Second, isn't calculating green speed something everyone does over the course of a round. How else would you know how hard to hit the ball?

I am as technical as anyone, being a retired engineer.  Yes, my putting is calculated, but there is also a feel component.  Green speed starts on the practice green, and continues with each hole played.  Maybe I am accumulating a technical data bank of feel, but when I stroke a putt, I am "feeling" the speed needed.  FYI, I also look at the hole (or intended line) when putting, not the ball.

 

I would never invest in Aimpoint just to find out if it would work for me.  I don't think I could adjust to the green speeds and amount of breaks at different courses.  It might be OK if I were playing the same course every day.  For the last 2 weeks I played 10 times on 8 different courses on grass I am not used to in Arizona.  Believe me, I was starting over from scratch every time I walked onto a course.  

[cnosil]

I am as technical as anyone, being a retired engineer. Yes, my putting is calculated, but there is also a feel component. Green speed starts on the practice green, and continues with each hole played. Maybe I am accumulating a technical data bank of feel, but when I stroke a putt, I am "feeling" the speed needed. FYI, I also look at the hole (or intended line) when putting, not the ball.

 

I would never invest in Aimpoint just to find out if it would work for me. I don't think I could adjust to the green speeds and amount of breaks at different courses. It might be OK if I were playing the same course every day. For the last 2 weeks I played 10 times on 8 different courses on grass I am not used to in Arizona. Believe me, I was starting over from scratch every time I walked onto a course.

Agree with you 100% on the technical vs feel. Some are more technical while others are more feel. I am pretty sure that no one is completely one or the other.

 

Aim point is a tool being a technical person it should be right up your alley. The concept is all about slope and how fast gravity pulls a ball down the slope. Ultimately it is a tool. Learning to read greens can only be done through experience and the ability to start the ball on intended line. Your approach is to judge break based on past experience.

 

In the end knowing the break doesn't help if you can't execute the putt. As I said earlier I believe understanding the concepts has been very beneficial for my putting. even though I don't use charts or my fingers

[Kenny B]

Agree with you 100% on the technical vs feel. Some are more technical while others are more feel. I am pretty sure that no one is completely one or the other.

 

Aim point is a tool being a technical person it should be right up your alley. The concept is all about slope and how fast gravity pulls a ball down the slope. Ultimately it is a tool. Learning to read greens can only be done through experience and the ability to start the ball on intended line. Your approach is to judge break based on past experience.

 

In the end knowing the break doesn't help if you can't execute the putt. As I said earlier I believe understanding the concepts has been very beneficial for my putting. even though I don't use charts or my fingers

The only person I know that is purely a feel putter is my wife.  She's an artist... photography.  Hates math!  She has been playing golf since 1963.  She is a decent putter; not great, not bad.  I am still not sure how her brain works (we are men and never will, right?), but she is a very "visual" person.  She will not line up her ball, but seems to read putts pretty well and gets the line most of the time.  Her biggest issue is with speed.  Some days she on, but other days she can be way short or way long.  She says:  The title of my memoirs is going to be "How to turn a birdie into bogey in three easy putts."

[Sschaffer24]

I think the perspective we need to keep is that like anything in the world of golf WE still have to be the one to execute at the end of the day. No system, club, ball or accessory is going to go out and play the game for us.

 

That still doesn't take away the benefits of looking at a better way to do something. The objective is still the same on every hole, but the approach can change dramatically. My question hovers around basically the idea that working out all of the variables ahead of time leads to a more consistent/repeatable performance.

 

My question is, for those with experience, has it translated?

[jayjay0808]

I think the perspective we need to keep is that like anything in the world of golf WE still have to be the one to execute at the end of the day. No system, club, ball or accessory is going to go out and play the game for us.

 

That still doesn't take away the benefits of looking at a better way to do something. The objective is still the same on every hole, but the approach can change dramatically. My question hovers around basically the idea that working out all of the variables ahead of time leads to a more consistent/repeatable performance.

 

My question is, for those with experience, has it translated?

That is an excellent way to put it! Not one thing is going to solve this game for anyone. 

 

I would like to know who has put it into play and how it works exactly? I have a very simplistic understanding but no in depth knowledge 

[Sschaffer24]

That is an excellent way to put it! Not one thing is going to solve this game for anyone. 

 

I would like to know who has put it into play and how it works exactly? I have a very simplistic understanding but no in depth knowledge 

 

Thank you, sir!

 

And I as well. Would love some player feedback for before/after with the system and more intricate details of it in action.

 

Aimpoint DOES have an Express DVD that's $50 from Amazon. Considering purchasing it. It's supposed to be the full program.

[mega]

FYI Vector Putting was sued in federal court for basing their system on Aimpoint technologies. 

 

Ok, that explains why they just seemed to disappear to me, I took a well attended class at Haggin Oaks taught by Mike Schy, one of many he taught there, and then later saw classes advertised at Wildhawk for short time and then nothing...

[DaveP043]

I just attended an Aimpoint Express class over the weekend, taught by Erik from Golf Evolution in Erie PA.  I'm a pretty experienced player, and putt reasonably well.  I've always read greens by eye, while still paying some attention to what my feet tell me as I walk around a green.  But I'm not one to turn down a potential tool when its available for me to learn.

 

First, Aimpoint will NOT help you putt the ball on your intended line, and will NOT help you hit it the right speed.  You have to improve those elements on putting all on your own.  

 

Based purely on the class, and on the round I played just following it, I think Aimpoint has the potential to be a very positive addition to my game.  The Express system is very easy to learn, is really not technical at all, even though I understand that its based on the physics of a ball rolling across a sloping surface.  The thing that's most "difficult" is to educate your body to sense the difference in slopes.  If your input (percentage slope across the target line) isn't accurate, then the output (the correct line) can't be accurate either.  I'm going to continue to use it, and have bought a digital level so I can keep practicing my "footwork".  I'm not sure that Aimpoint will help me a whole lot at my home club, after 25 years I get most of the reads pretty close.  But when I travel, I think I'm really going to see improved reads.

 

And for those who think that Aimpoint needs to slow a player down, I'd say just the opposite.  We were encouraged to make our "feel" within just a couple of seconds.  Once you have the slope determined based on that feel, getting the line takes just a couple of seconds as well, holding up the right number of fingers.  Its certainly faster than looking at a putt from both ends.

[Shifty]

I love aimpoint.  Use it all the time.  Those that think playing on different courses would screw them up are simply wrong.  It takes 2-3 putts to calibrate the green speeds before a round.  And for taking time... my playing partner says it takes alot of time.  I stated my method is faster than yours, as I take 5 less putts per round. He thought about it, and agreed with me.

I may do it a little different than others as I use a visual as well as feel.  I use my dominant eye and center it between my shoes and look down.  Where the end of my knee projects itself on my shoe is my reading.  For example the end of my knee projects to the end of where my laces start, then its a 2. 

Once a person know what line the putt should be on, that takes one thing off your mind, and basically all you have to worry about is speed.

[DaveP043]

 

I may do it a little different than others as I use a visual as well as feel.  I use my dominant eye and center it between my shoes and look down.  Where the end of my knee projects itself on my shoe is my reading.  For example the end of my knee projects to the end of where my laces start, then its a 2. 

To be clear, your "feel" is that the pressure is equal between your feet, you just have to bend the uphill knee to achieve that feel.  With both legs equally extended, more weight would be on the downhill foot.  Once you've equalized the pressure, you look at the amount of knee bend to determine the slope.  Erik did mention this as one way to get the slope.  

[PlaidJacket]

I think Aim Point is interesting and if there were a class held in my town I'd probably go. Now and since I'm basically ignorant of Aim Point and how to really use it I'm skeptical. I've always claimed to be a good putter. I suppose I read greens pretty good too or I wouldn't be a decent putter to begin with.

One thing that bothers me would be adding another thought/process to my putting routine. But... I'd give it a shot.

[DaveP043]

I think Aim Point is interesting and if there were a class held in my town I'd probably go. Now and since I'm basically ignorant of Aim Point and how to really use it I'm skeptical. I've always claimed to be a good putter. I suppose I read greens pretty good too or I wouldn't be a decent putter to begin with.

One thing that bothers me would be adding another thought/process to my putting routine. But... I'd give it a shot.

I'm going to see how it works out, but I'm hoping that I'll end up substituting the Aimpoiint "process" for my old process, as opposed to adding one on top of the other.  

[Rekklss]

I have taken both the 'mid point' read & The Express.

I went from averaging 36-38 putts per round ... now I am at 30 - 32 putts per round. I practice with a digital level to ingrain the 'feel'. Works for me ... & I am an engineer.

 

Sent from my XT1650 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[jfull1914]

I've been trying to learn AimPoint Express and bought the DVD. My issue has been practicing the technique. I bought a digital level off of amazon but the readings are so inconsistent that I've lost confidence in it. I've tried re-calibrating it several times. For example there will be putts that I can clearly see breaking severely, I put the level down and it'll say 2%.  Then I put the level on a putt with slight break and get the same 2%. I also have the Aimpoint Putting Line Gate but it hasn't been very helpful since I can't get the level to work properly.  Oddly, according to the AP site there are not AP instructors where i live (Las Vegas) and we're a pretty big golf city. 

[cnosil]

I bought a digital level off of amazon but the readings are so inconsistent that I've lost confidence in it. 

 

One of the things I have seen is a slope board that you can use to practice the slope anywhere.  

 

I know it is in a foreign language,  but look at the pictures.  http://online-shop.rolfkinkel.com/AimPoint-Slope-Board