Driver construction - how much is it the head vs. how much is it the shaft?

[StrokerAce]

In the market for my next driver.  Can't afford to get fitted yet so I'm looking for something inexpensive to fill the void until I can pay for a fitting.

 

As I've been doing some research I begin to wonder if I should be focusing more on looking for the shaft rather than the head.

 

By rule, each driver can only have a COR of .83... meaning that the energy transfer to the ball from the club cannot exceed that value no matter what head you use.

 

As far as the shaft goes there are all sorts of variables (listed below)

torque, weight, flex, etc.

 

I know there are now little weights added to the clubhead that change the center of gravity to the middle/front/back/toe/heel, etc.

 

But... if you were looking for a 100-dollar-or-less driver would you focus primarily on the shaft or the head?

 

BTW: I know I should get fit for a driver; I'm just trying to find something for now that is inexpensive and basic.    

 

TORQUE: A measurement of the circular rotation of the shaft during the swing. Normal measurements are in the 2- to 6-degree range. A low torque number means less twisting of the shaft but also can mean a harsher feel. A high torque number is associated with a soft-feeling shaft, although there may be a sacrifice in accuracy.

FLEX: The strength of a shaft as it bends during the swing. Because extra stiff, stiff, regular, seniors and ladies flexes are measured in so many ways, these designations have become broad in nature. Comparing flexes from one shaft manufacturer makes sense, but comparing flexes from several shaft manufacturers can be confusing.

FREQUENCY: A more precise method of measuring shaft strength, although measurements from one frequency machine cannot necessarily be compared to those from another machine. As a shaft vibrates, these machines measure the number of vibrations. The higher the vibration count, the stiffer the shaft.

EI CURVE: A measurement of structural rigidity throughout the shaft. The EI curve shows exactly how the shaft is bending from tip to butt during the swing. Generally it is considered a more reliable measurement than flex or frequency.

KICK POINT: Modern shafts, particularly graphite shafts, can produce kick in different sections of the shaft — high kick, mid kick and low kick being three obvious points of reference. Fitters often spend considerable time matching a golfer's swing with a particular kick. A lower kick point produces a higher trajectory, while a higher kick point results in a lower flight pattern.

WEIGHT: Overall shaft weight usually is expressed in grams. This reflects the weight of an uncut shaft. Once a shaft is trimmed, of course, the final weight is reduced. Stronger flexes generally weigh more than regular, senior or ladies flexes of the same model. True Temper's Dynamic Gold, the most popular steel iron shaft on the PGA Tour, weighs abourt 130 grams. At the other end of the spectrum, Mitsubishi Rayon has a Bassara graphite driver shaft that weighs about 35 grams.

COUNTER-BALANCING: The process of adding weight to the butt end of the club, whether more material is manufactured into the upper end of the shaft or whether it is an add-on that is secured inside the butt of the shaft. Counter-balancing lowers the swingweight of a club, changing the feel as well. Proponents of counter-balancing say it increases swing speed for some golfers.

BALANCE POINT: Closely related to counter-balancing, balance point is sometimes cited as an important element of feel and performance. The more weight in the butt, the higher the balance point. Although it is not a widespread practice, some fitters use balance point as one of the variables in prescribing a shaft.

[cnosil]

What is wrong with your current driver that won't let you wait until you get fit. I would think applying the money to the fitting would get you closer to your end goal.

 

I believe it is a combination of shaft and head. You need to find the right pairing meaning a shaft that works in one head may not work in another.

 

At sub $100 I assume you are looking in the used market? Any shops near you that sell used? If you do then go start hitting drivers. You can find launch condition numbers for your swing speed online to compare. Just find one that provides the best numbers. Older drivers are going to be hard to optimize head and shaft unless you can try the combo.

[StrokerAce]

Yes, used.

 

My SS is around 105 - are there any combinations you have used in the past that you really liked?

[PlaidJacket]

I like cnosil's suggestion.

However, if you have to have a newer driver and for your budget I'd shop the trade-in rack at some golf shops. The first thing I consider when shopping for a driver is "do I like the look/setup at address." Second is the shaft and adjustability, etc. Shafts can be changed with not that much expense these days. Perhaps the shop will let you try a couple of shafts?

I can pretty much fit myself for a driver. Irons... not so much.

Honestly, I may never buy another "new" driver. I see too many in the used racks that have barely been played. But if I do buy new I'll buy last years model.

[cnosil]

Yes, used.

 

My SS is around 105 - are there any combinations you have used in the past that you really liked?

Swing speed isn't the only variable. I am not an expert but it is really more about how the shaft works for you. I am at 98ish and when I did the most wanted driver testing it was obvious some shafts worked better than others it really is a trial and error kind of thing. I seem to do better in a lighter 50/60 gram shaft but the head weight may influence that weight. Also the club lifts varied between 9.5 and 10.5 degrees. As we looked at the results you could also see some combos didn't work due to spin rates. It is a tuning exercise that requires someone that knows how the combos work or your spending some time to figure it out yourself.

[null]

I'd say probably 90% head

[cnosil]

I'd say probably 90% head

Any reason for that thought?

[null]

Any reason for that thought?

There's a reason any legitimate fitter will start with fitting a head first and then fine tune with a shaft.

[StrokerAce]

I'd say probably 90% head

 

are there any particular heads you like?

Say titleist 910D3 or Nike Vapor or ???

[null]

are there any particular heads you like?

Say titleist 910D3 or Nike Vapor or ???

 

It's not that there's a particular head that works best for everyone - just that when fitting for a driver you start with the head, as it matters more than the shaft

[null]

I see you played the Bio Cell as your previous driver - why are you moving on? What about the performance from the Bio Cell would you have changed? Spun too much? Spun too little? Launched too low/high?

 

Looks like you are getting a cobra F6+ head, which is fantastic head if you are something that spins a little lower than the Bio Cell while still giving you a good amount of forgiveness on off center hits

[Sschaffer24]

I think this question can be answered a few ways.

 

The first aspect is pretty simple. Head is the biggest determining factor for sure. If you can't find something that optimizes spin/strike/launch angle, etc the shaft is irrelevant. There are a few basic points to understand about components in a swing.

 

Here are how variables will change based on the various component. Let's focus on spin (any variable will do) and talk about the three things that control that. You have the head, the shaft and the golfer. The question is, which of those three can effect the spin number the most? Well, the largest variable in inevitably the golfer. Our strike and feel is by far the most important factor when choosing a club. What we DON'T realize is that your natural tendencies can have a huge impact on which head works best for you.

 

Let's compare the Ping G30 and SLDR.

 

These two drivers have dramatically different CG locations. One is high and rearward (G30) and the other is low and forward (SLDR) these two clubs will promote different launch conditions based on those facts. The SLDR will launch lower and will less spin, but have a tradeoff of forgiveness due to the low MOI of the head. The G30 will largely do the opposite of that (higher spin and launch with more forgiveness).

 

So knowing your needs is really important with a fitting. Does taking the next step in this game happen by you being willing to gamble the occasional short or wayward drive for the absolute further distance? SLDR is the winner of the two then. Do you need consistency? A consistent and reliable distance that will stay largely on target, stay in the air longer and be a trustworthy friend? Then the G30 is your bet out of the two.

 

Here is what we all don't realize though. Each golfer has a certain CG profile that just works for them better than others. You may go in to a shop and hit those two drivers side by side and realize that the G30 gives you much more consistent numbers due to what YOU bring to the table. It's all about doing any kind of comparison that you possibly can.

 

My best advice is TRY to have some kind of idea of what your goals are. Hit the clubs side by side and narrow it down that way. Hell, if you don't have any way of measuring distance at the very least hit them on the range and use the eyeball/feel test. Chances are one will win out.

 

The last variable that I haven't mentioned is the shaft. Shafts really will only move spin/launch/etc by a small percentage compared to what the club head is capable of from the factory. At the price point that you are trying to stay in the shaft should be all about FEEL and FEEL only. Don't worry about the other stuff until you are at a point to look at all of the options out there. 

 

The variables you describe at the top are something that you need to be careful with. Keep in mind there is no standard for how these numbers are measured or determined. One company's low torque is another ones high torque. Same with stiffness. One can be a stiff in one brand and a regular in another brand. Unless these are going to be CPM'd it just boils down to feel my friend.

[jaskanski]

There's a reason any legitimate fitter will start with fitting a head first and then fine tune with a shaft.

 

That's pretty much true. If for example you have a driver head with completely the wrong loft, then no amount of tinkering with a shaft will make it any better.

Find a head with the looks to suit your eye, then make sure you have the right loft and face angle. The correct selection of shaft should ensure you hit the ball in the middle of the club face and on the right trajectory. Anything else is pretty much up to you, but fitting is the only real way to tell for sure if you have no idea where to start from. It doesn't necessarily need to be expensive - if for example I could see you could get good numbers with a 905 and a V2 shaft you could buy for 30 bucks - I'd recommend it. The point is, if expense is the key factor in your choice, then you may be limiting your options in total optimisation. 

[hckymeyer]

FWIW if you have $100 for a driver, you have a $100 for a fitting

 

I can tell you about the best size 10.5 shoes I've ever worn, but if you wear a 12 they aren't going to fit.  I can tell you about the best burger I've ever eaten, but if you hate pickles you aren't going to like it.  

 

See where I'm going here, good for me does not mean it will be good for you.  If you want a recommendation I love my SLDR 430 driver.  I have similar swing speed and use a Diamana D+ 62 shaft.  It's been tipped 1.5" and plays at 45".  It's a 10.5 degree head and I have it set to 11.  This combo can also easily be found for sub $100 used.

 

I think you've got about the best info we can give you with the current parameters.  The only thing I can add is to go back and look at the Most Wanted Driver tests from the past few years.  Try to find something that performed well in the tests and you like the looks of.  Then find a shop that has used equipment and try out a bunch of stuff before purchasing.  

 

Or...keep the Bio Cell you have.  Spend that $100 for a fitting and then save up for what you get fit in to.

[Sschaffer24]

FWIW if you have $100 for a driver, you have a $100 for a fitting

 

I can tell you about the best size 10.5 shoes I've ever worn, but if you wear a 12 they aren't going to fit.  I can tell you about the best burger I've ever eaten, but if you hate pickles you aren't going to like it.  

 

See where I'm going here, good for me does not mean it will be good for you.  If you want a recommendation I love my SLDR 430 driver.  I have similar swing speed and use a Diamana D+ 62 shaft.  It's been tipped 1.5" and plays at 45".  It's a 10.5 degree head and I have it set to 11.  This combo can also easily be found for sub $100 used.

 

I think you've got about the best info we can give you with the current parameters.  The only thing I can add is to go back and look at the Most Wanted Driver tests from the past few years.  Try to find something that performed well in the tests and you like the looks of.  Then find a shop that has used equipment and try out a bunch of stuff before purchasing.  

 

Or...keep the Bio Cell you have.  Spend that $100 for a fitting and then save up for what you get fit in to.

 

All phenomenal advice.

 

I would second the SLDR for performance if that's your goal and a Ping G something if forgiveness if the goal.

[StrokerAce]

I see you played the Bio Cell as your previous driver - why are you moving on? What about the performance from the Bio Cell would you have changed? Spun too much? Spun too little? Launched too low/high?

 

Looks like you are getting a cobra F6+ head, which is fantastic head if you are something that spins a little lower than the Bio Cell while still giving you a good amount of forgiveness on off center hits

 

I was too inconsistent with the Bio Cell+ last year.  I'm hoping to find more fairways this year...

[StrokerAce]

FWIW if you have $100 for a driver, you have a $100 for a fitting

 

I can tell you about the best size 10.5 shoes I've ever worn, but if you wear a 12 they aren't going to fit.  I can tell you about the best burger I've ever eaten, but if you hate pickles you aren't going to like it.  

 

See where I'm going here, good for me does not mean it will be good for you.  If you want a recommendation I love my SLDR 430 driver.  I have similar swing speed and use a Diamana D+ 62 shaft.  It's been tipped 1.5" and plays at 45".  It's a 10.5 degree head and I have it set to 11.  This combo can also easily be found for sub $100 used.

 

I think you've got about the best info we can give you with the current parameters.  The only thing I can add is to go back and look at the Most Wanted Driver tests from the past few years.  Try to find something that performed well in the tests and you like the looks of.  Then find a shop that has used equipment and try out a bunch of stuff before purchasing.  

 

Or...keep the Bio Cell you have.  Spend that $100 for a fitting and then save up for what you get fit in to.

 

But I don't have 100 for a fitting and.... x for a new driver.... and I can't play without a driver.

 

so... it's off to try a few things out and see what works.

Unfortunately I can't find a place that has a launch monitor where I can demo some used clubs for free.

GolfSmith used to have one but they closed up shop last year.

 

Oh well... I've been reading about the Callaway Great Big Bertha Alpha and the Nike Vapor.  both of those are relatively inexpensive and the GBB Alpha has a bunch of different settings.  Anyone tried that one?  

[hckymeyer]

But I don't have 100 for a fitting and.... x for a new driver.... and I can't play without a driver.

 

so... it's off to try a few things out and see what works.

Unfortunately I can't find a place that has a launch monitor where I can demo some used clubs for free.

GolfSmith used to have one but they closed up shop last year.

 

Oh well... I've been reading about the Callaway Great Big Bertha Alpha and the Nike Vapor.  both of those are relatively inexpensive and the GBB Alpha has a bunch of different settings.  Anyone tried that one?  

Well, you can.  You just don't want to.

 

No place to try out clubs, won't/can't do a fitting, looking for driver magic that fits you, gives you same or additional yardage and let's you find more fairways.  All with no information about your swing and over the internet.  Oh yeah, and sub $100.  That about sum up the purpose of this thread?

 

Sure the GBB Alpha was a decent driver.  Try it.

[hckymeyer]

Also to get back to the original head vs shaft question.  They are both equally important.

 

See this article...  https://www.mygolfspy.com/mygolfspy-labs-head-vs-shaft/

[Mr_Theoo]

Well, you can. You just don't want to.

 

No place to try out clubs, won't/can't do a fitting, looking for driver magic that fits you, gives you same or additional yardage and let's you find more fairways. All with no information about your swing and over the internet. Oh yeah, and sub $100. That about sum up the purpose of this thread?

 

Sure the GBB Alpha was a decent driver. Try it.

Nike covert Tour worked well for me

[hckymeyer]

Where's Bobcat with a driver recommendation when we need him???

[Sschaffer24]

Where's Bobcat with a driver recommendation when we need him???

 

HAHAHAHA. Dear god... Did you awaken him from his slumber....

 

 

Seriously though StrokerAce, I hear a SLDR C is a great driver. Definitely under $100 too.

[Sschaffer24]

On another topic. judging from your statement about the Bio Cell, forgiveness needs to be a priority.

 

You seriously cannot beat a Ping G series driver if that's the goal. And ball speed can't be the issue with that driver... I'm pretty sure Bubba has played that line for quite awhile. Worth a swing.

[The Dansome]

Word of mouth is great for getting club recommendations, but there's a lot of factors to consider.

 

Like Meyer said there's many things in life we can recommend you based off our love, but will you love it?

 

- Without hitting first are you in love with the feel of the face/club?

- Does the drivers appearance at address fit your eye?

 

Then there's the wild crap shoot.

 

- Does your particular swing type/tempo match the shaft you're getting?

 

If fitting is not an option and price is under $100 you basically are stuck with the trial and error method from here.

 

Lastly I can recommend you the following drivers based on my experiences, but we don't know if you swing anything like I do.

 

Nike Covert Performance Red stock Kuro stiff - straight as an arrow, but way shorter than everything else

Nike Vapor Pro stock Diamana Stiff - straight as an arrow, a little longer

SLDR 430 with Fubuki Alpha shaft - fitted at Kingdom and meh once home

PING G30 with Paderson 70g stiff - goes straight and far

Bombtech Grenade with stock regular shaft (frequencied at stiff) - goes real far like for me, hit no fairways so bad

 

Maybe you stay with the Bio Cell and research shafts based on your swing type/speed/etc. You may get better results picking up a cheap shaft in the meantime until one day you can go all out and get the full fitting. I was seeing shafts on Ebay for you with adaptors starting at $40.

[null]

And since you mention forgiveness, I am going to post this here, though it really should be in big bold letters across the top of every page on this site.

 

 

Forgiveness from club to club is more about ball speed retention on contact away from the center of the face and less about minimizing left/right misses.  So a club will rarely contribute to one "finding more fairways."

In fact, I would argue that if a club "finds more fairways," it's simple because the club fits better (weight, length, weighting of the head, etc).  This is why fit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything

[The Dansome]

And since you mention forgiveness, I am going to post this here, though it really should be in big bold letters across the top of every page on this site.

 

 

Forgiveness from club to club is more about ball speed retention on contact away from the center of the face and less about minimizing left/right misses.  So a club will rarely contribute to one "finding more fairways."

In fact, I would argue that if a club "finds more fairways," it's simple because the club fits better (weight, length, weighting of the head, etc).  This is why fit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything

 

What this guy said

[Sschaffer24]

And since you mention forgiveness, I am going to post this here, though it really should be in big bold letters across the top of every page on this site.

 

 

Forgiveness from club to club is more about ball speed retention on contact away from the center of the face and less about minimizing left/right misses.  So a club will rarely contribute to one "finding more fairways."

In fact, I would argue that if a club "finds more fairways," it's simple because the club fits better (weight, length, weighting of the head, etc).  This is why fit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

What this guy said

 

 

What those guys said.

[jaskanski]

What I always say. 

[StrokerAce]

well then... 

 

great responses here... mostly.

 

Not sure I ever thought I'd be compared to the infamous "bobcat" but one never knows what can happen on MyGolfSpy!

 

I gather a few things from the comments and criticism - some of it constructive and some not so much...

 

1. At all costs no matter what you should break the bank and get fitted for a driver
    
2. It is statistically impossible, impractical, and inadvisable to blindly purchase a used driver for less than 100 dollars and expect any modicum of success.  If, for some reason, you manage to CONSISTENTLY be successful with it your next stop should be the closest convenience store for the proverbial "lottery ticket" as you have beaten the odds and have gained the 'Midas touch'.
    
3. See #1
    
4. If there is ever a doubt about where you can go to get an unbiased opinion about golf clubs on the internet this is certainly the place to come.  If you thought golfwrx.com was good....
    
5. Finally, the shaft and head *must* work together.  There is no such thing as a great shaft all by itself.  There is no such thing as a great driver head all by itself.  They must work together to form the best 'fit' (there's that word again!) club for the individual swinging it.
    
6. Oh... one more... see #1

 

I have a hybrid & iron fitting scheduled for this Friday... Maybe I'll ask the fitter what his thoughts are and see what I can do or what he recommends.  The fitting is scheduled for 2 hours so perhaps they'll be a little time at the end.

 

I've already sold the driver I have so I suppose the best use of that $$ will be to take it and go get fit and... maybe play without a driver until I get the funds to purchase whatever is recommended?  

 

Again... thanks for the feedback.  Didn't mean to steer this off topic.

[PlaidJacket]

Stroker... is your head about to explode?

 

Pretty solid advice I'm reading here. Good luck.