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Shaft Quality: Aftermarket/Mfr Upgrades


Samson

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I caved the head of my current driver yesterday while demoing some aftermarket shafts - so am now in the market for a new driver.

 

I was wondering if anyone had noticed any difference between aftermarket shafts and those offered by the club companies? In particular I'm looking at at Cobra's F7+ where they offer a Matrix Blacktie or Hzrdus Yellow both in 75 grams as a no charge upgrade. I had hit both at a demo day and had a pro walk past and mention that those shafts are never the same as the ones you buy separately. If anyone has any experience I would love to hear about it. Thanks!

 

 

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It depends.  Some are real deal aftermarket shafts and some are made for variants with a similar profile but might not be exactly the same.

 

In the case of the HZRDUS it is supposed to be the same shaft profile, but it's not the hand made version.  Not sure specifically on the black tie from Cobra.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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It depends.  Some are real deal aftermarket shafts and some are made for variants with a similar profile but might not be exactly the same.

 

In the case of the HZRDUS it is supposed to be the same shaft profile, but it's not the hand made version.  Not sure specifically on the black tie from Cobra.

 

The above is correct. I have a hand made Project X and when I took it to my fitter to pure it was absolutely perfect. Their is a reason why hand made shafts cost a lot more

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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Interesting question.... went to a fitting recently and was fit into a Diamana and the fitter said that although the shaft looks the same it isn't always that case.

what do you mean, I said.

he said if you were to go into PGA superstore and buy the same club off the rack with (what looks like) the same shaft the characteristics will be completely different.

 

very, very deceiving.

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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Anything for a buck I guess... Frankly I don't care if it's hand made so long as it works for me. I just hate supporting deceptive tactics out of principle.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

At least in the Project X example they've been very up front about that shaft and it doesn't have the handcrafted logo on it.  Handcrafted version probably has tighter tolerances is the main difference.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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... Having discussed this with several shaft OEMs and club OEMs it is a tricky subject. Most of the shafts are exactly the same, unless they are hand made or special models. But I will use Cobra as an example when they offered a Matrix Red Tie as a stock made for shaft. 

... They loved the performance and overall profile of the Red Tie. But they found for the average golfer the Red Tie was a little too stiff overall and too stiff in the tip. So they had Matrix modify those attributes only, using the exact same materials and construction as the "real" Red Tie. They were very proud of the shaft but if those stronger players attempting to play the Cobra Red Tie compared it to the after market shaft, they would find more spin and a higher trajectory. Preferable for the average player but not what most better players need. One of the engineers told me he figured most really good players would probably re-shaft anyway. Keeping in mind the average golfer just hits the club and has no idea about head design, shaft design or performance, and decides whether they like it or not by how they hit it right of the shelf, the OEMs only get one chance so they make the shaft that is playable for the average player. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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Guess it depends on the OEM but I have always been fit and bought the real deal shaft for my clubs. Heck I had the new Fuji Tour Specs in my 917s before they were available in the retail market.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

WITB 2024

   Qi10 LS 9* HZRDUS RDX Smoke Blue 60g 6.5

   M5 15* Evenflow Black 75g 6.5

   Sim Ti 22* HZRDUS Red 75g 6.5

   Sim2 Rescue 22* Diamana Thump 100x

   X Forged CB 5 - PW MMT 105 TX 

   Jaws Raw 50*, 54* & 58* TTDG "OG" Spinner

   Toulon Madison BGT Fire 34.75"

   Z Star Diamond

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I think this is a great topic.  Clearly the stock shafts in drivers aren't exactly like a corresponding model that you might purchase after market.  That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a poor shaft just that it performs differently.  Its a shaft that will give the best performance for what the OEM deems to be the golfer who will be buying the product while giving the OEM the best opportunity to make a profit. 

 

Bottom line to this or any other dilemma is to go get fit if you're worried about it - we know that there are examples of players who love a certain shaft only to discover it doesn't work as well with another head so just go get fit or if you already know the shaft/head combo that works just order it that way rather than risking what might happen with the stock shaft of the same name brand.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

In one regard it doesn't matter, in another it could.

 

If you've been fit for say a Black Tie in the past and it works well, then you order the stock Black Tie and it's a slightly different profile it could be a very bad thing.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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That's a good point.

 

I guess my point was assuming that you would leave with what "fits" if you think the OEM black tie is equal to the aftermarket option, then yes, they're not the same and that's bad. But that's also assuming you aren't being professionally fit for either choice and thus hitting the shafts.

 

Good point though man!

:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

Absolutely, I need shafts that will work for my game, so I would definitely game shafts that cost $30 vs $300 if it fit my swing.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

WITB:

 

Driver:   :taylormade-small: Sim2 Max w/ Fujikura Motore X F3 shaft

FW Wood:   :cobra-small:  F9 wood 14.5* 

Hybrids:  :taylormade-small: Sim2 Max 3 Hybrid & :nike-small: Vapor Flex 4 hybrid  

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z565 - 7 thru PW & ZU85 - 5 thru 6 with Recoil ZT9 F4 shafts                                            

Wedges:   :cleveland-small: RTX4 52*, 56*, 60* 

Putter:  Scotty Cameron M2 Newport

Ball:  :Snell: Black & :titelist-small: Pro V1

Bag: 2018 MyGolfSpy stand Bag & 2021 Greenside Golf stand bag

 

 

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Absolutely, I need shafts that will work for my game, so I would definitely game shafts that cost $30 vs $300 if it fit my swing.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

I wouldn't pay more for a name if a cheaper name worked

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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I wouldn't pay more for a name if a cheaper name worked

I agree, however for me it's not so much about it working but as how the rep portrayed it. To be clear, Cobra themselves had nothing to do with it, but the rep was pretty evasive and based on what I have seen here, combined with some other research, was either deceitful or didn't know... And both of those are unacceptable to me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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I agree, however for me it's not so much about it working but as how the rep portrayed it. To be clear, Cobra themselves had nothing to do with it, but the rep was pretty evasive and based on what I have seen here, combined with some other research, was either deceitful or didn't know... And both of those are unacceptable to me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

This post you say Rep, but your first post said pro.  To me those are two completely different guys.  A rep works for the company and should know better.  A course pro is just a guy who only knows what he's told.  If my course pro came by and told me something I'd take his advice on swing tips, but not when it comes to equipment.  I'm pretty well versed when it comes to that and trust my own knowledge & research.

 

Best to just understand that some "no charge" OEM shaft upgrades are the real deal and some are slightly different profiles from their aftermarket counterparts.  You have to do the research on each specific one to know which is which.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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The tough part that I have is that if I am a better player with a higher swing speed, most of the time I will have to pay more for a real deal shaft versus the watered down "made for" type that fits the average player.  When paying the now regular price of $500 for stock shafted drivers.  I guess this is the reason why I hit a 913D3 still.

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This post you say Rep, but your first post said pro. To me those are two completely different guys. A rep works for the company and should know better. A course pro is just a guy who only knows what he's told. If my course pro came by and told me something I'd take his advice on swing tips, but not when it comes to equipment. I'm pretty well versed when it comes to that and trust my own knowledge & research.

 

Best to just understand that some "no charge" OEM shaft upgrades are the real deal and some are slightly different profiles from their aftermarket counterparts. You have to do the research on each specific one to know which is which.

The rep was the guy from Cobra running the demo and telling me that these shaft upgrades are worth big money but they don't up charge for them, the Pro was one of the club pros walking past who told me he doesn't trust that statement. I apologize for any confusion.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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In one regard it doesn't matter, in another it could.

 

If you've been fit for say a Black Tie in the past and it works well, then you order the stock Black Tie and it's a slightly different profile it could be a very bad thing.

I can't see a "slightly different" shaft being a "very bad thing". At worst it'll cost you a couple yards if the same shaft model is slightly different. A lot of the shaft fitting things this day is overblown. Ultimately it matters but a lot less than people think, if you buy something in the right family of shaft types with the correct flex and weight, you should achieve comparable results if you can make a consistent swing. People's swings are always evolving slightly so why would you think that the exact shaft you were fit for, still is the "perfect" fit for you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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